I can keep my insurance? YOU LIE!

[theeedude]

So basically you are a paranoid Obama hater?

 

[eggshin]

If you're going to quote the Pres, be kind enough to use the whole thing, and not Beck's hack job.

"...we said from the start that it was going to be important for us to be consistent in saying to people if you can have your -- if you want to keep the health insurance you got, you can keep it, that you're not going to have anybody getting in between you and your doctor in your decision making. And I think that some of the provisions that got snuck in might have violated that pledge.

And so we are in the process of scrubbing them and making sure that it's tight. "

 

[Fear No Evil]

How can Obama let you keep the insurance plan you are sooooo happy with if your employer decides to switch or they decide to dump your employer? You are living in some dream world.

So he was lying when he said I could keep it? Or is he just too stupid to understand the plan? The fact that my employer can change my coverage or switch companies has nothing to do with this, they change this year as a matter of fact and I am STILL happy with it. He said I could keep my plan if I was happy with it. That apparently is not true in this current bill.

 

[Fear No Evil]

If you're going to quote the Pres, be kind enough to use the whole thing, and not Beck's hack job.

"...we said from the start that it was going to be important for us to be consistent in saying to people if you can have your -- if you want to keep the health insurance you got, you can keep it, that you're not going to have anybody getting in between you and your doctor in your decision making. And I think that some of the provisions that got snuck in might have violated that pledge.

And so we are in the process of scrubbing them and making sure that it's tight. "

Were they doing that 2 months ago when they were trying to ram it through? Or are they doing it NOW that they have lost a major election and people have become extremely skeptical of the lies being told about this plan? What ELSE is in the plan that they are scrubbing? Why won't they be transparent with the American people as he PROMISED.

 

[nobodyknows]

Were they doing that 2 months ago when they were trying to ram it through? Or are they doing it NOW that they have lost a major election and people have become extremely skeptical of the lies being told about this plan? What ELSE is in the plan that they are scrubbing? Why won't they be transparent with the American people as he PROMISED.

Fail, fail, fail. Go home, have some mother's milk, and start over.

 

[theeedude]

So he was lying when he said I could keep it? Or is he just too stupid to understand the plan? The fact that my employer can change my coverage or switch companies has nothing to do with this, they change this year as a matter of fact and I am STILL happy with it. He said I could keep my plan if I was happy with it. That apparently is not true in this current bill.

Of course he was lying, if he told you you could live forever with the new plan would you still be asking if he's lying to you? There is no guarantee you can keep their current insurance, that's reason why we need reforms. Not that I give a flying fvck who my insurer is, I only care about my doctor, I think I've had 4 different insurers in 7 years, and they all suck equally as far as I am concerned, maybe Blue Cross trying to suck a little harder.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Hope Obama learns from his mistakes and makes no more promises on legislation where the fifth columnists can get their hands on it. ^_^

 

[woolfe9999]

So basically you are a paranoid Obama hater?

Er, that was a rhetorical question, right?

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

Is the part at the end, which I was focusing on, that says "And I think that some of the provisions that got snuck in might have violated that pledge" - Is that word parsing as well? He's saying the bill does not do what HE PROMISED us it would do.

I think the 'say' part was just a little insight into why it never made it into the bill.. They had no intention of keeping that promise. But even if THAT part isn't true.. the FACTS, by his own admission, show his promise has not been kept in the current healthcare bill that Nancy Pelosi has said she is still trying to pass and Obama said he supports.

Once again, if there was no intention of keeping the promise, why is it that the next thing he said, after the words you quoted, was that the bill was being scrubbed to remove those provisions that had violated the pledge? Indeed, why bring it up at all? No one asked him about it. No one pointed fingers. He just offered it up - the bill violated a pledge he made and they are fixing it.

You fail.

- wolf

 

[Fear No Evil]

Once again, if there was no intention of keeping the promise, why is it that the next thing he said, after the words you quoted, was that the bill was being scrubbed to remove those provisions that had violated the pledge? Indeed, why bring it up at all? No one asked him about it. No one pointed fingers. He just offered it up - the bill violated a pledge he made and they are fixing it.

You fail.

- wolf

He MAY be keeping his promise NOW. Was he 2 months ago? Seems like there is some damage control going on how after the Brown election. And what are the other things they are fixing? Why so secretive on it?

 

[umbrella39]

So basically you are a paranoid Obama hater?

This. Should change his name to Fears The Truth.

 

[Sclamoz]

It's just come out that one of the proposed bills still has universal healthcare included.

"Establish universal access programs to improve high risk pools and reinsurance
markets.

The bill requires States establish either a functioning high risk pool or a reinsurance
program and provides $25 billion in federal funding for these programs. Insurance
offered through these programs will ensure everyone has access to affordable health car
regardless of their health status. States will have to eliminate high risk pool waiting lin
and premiums for enrollees in high risk pools would be limited to 150% of the average premium charged in a State (currently capped at 200%)."

Fufking social welfare programs!

 

[Hacp]

It's just come out that one of the proposed bills still has universal healthcare included.

"Establish universal access programs to improve high risk pools and reinsurance
markets.

The bill requires States establish either a functioning high risk pool or a reinsurance
program and provides $25 billion in federal funding for these programs. Insurance
offered through these programs will ensure everyone has access to affordable health car
regardless of their health status. States will have to eliminate high risk pool waiting lin
and premiums for enrollees in high risk pools would be limited to 150% of the average premium charged in a State (currently capped at 200%)."

Fufking social welfare programs!

Who's paying for this? TAXPAYERS! If you already have health insurance, you're paying double. First for your own insurance, and then for an illegal's insurance.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This. Should change his name to Fears The Truth.

Assuming that the OP is correct in what was quoted, it comes down to the Dems letting Obama make a pledge they had no intention of keeping, and changed the language knowing full well that at least in part people would would support the bill because of still having freedom of choice.

So while it's true that Obama did not write the legislation, it IS true that what was sold is not what is happening.

We were deceived.

Now an argument was put forward as "So there is no guarantee that your place of work would keep the same insurance plan." While that's literally true, that's not how this was sold.

So the Dems have proven that they aren't being honest with this issue, and Republican past issues notwithstanding, this validates my concerns. They'll lie when it suits them. That others lie makes them no better.

 

[HumblePie]

Assuming that the OP is correct in what was quoted, it comes down to the Dems letting Obama make a pledge they had no intention of keeping, and changed the language knowing full well that at least in part people would would support the bill because of still having freedom of choice.

So while it's true that Obama did not write the legislation, it IS true that what was sold is not what is happening.

We were deceived.

Now an argument was put forward as "So there is no guarantee that your place of work would keep the same insurance plan." While that's literally true, that's not how this was sold.

So the Dems have proven that they aren't being honest with this issue, and Republican past issues notwithstanding, this validates my concerns. They'll lie when it suits them. That others lie makes them no better.

This is what gets me. Obama first off proposed a bill for Congress and the House. Afterward, both sides screwed around with it. Look, the president doesn't have time to sit around 24/7 tinkering with every bill that the Legislative branch is mucking around with. He has other issues and new things to work on. So as soon as he does what he intends, he hands it off. For whatever reason, and I think both sides are equally guilty here, the HC bill got completely butchered and screwed over. Yah, he has probably been hearing about it, but really what can he say or do about it until it goes away or is proposed to be accepted or Veto'ed?

So since the Dems control the most, and it was a bill proposed by a Dem, the blame for it becoming this horrible stink pile is now "all their fault" by every right wing nut that wants to see it that way? I'm not saying that Dems aren't to blame for it, I'm saying laying everything at their feet is not exactly the smartest thing to spout off. Then on top of that, blaming everything that happened because of the Legislative branch on the president? That's about as smart as the men in the middle east blaming anal gonorrhea on mixing "black and green tea."

However, the moment the president finally decides to step back in and says he is going to fix the crap that has happened, every right wing calls him a hypocrite or a liar because to them it was always his fault in the first place. As if he had absolute control over it since the beginning.

What we as a people should be blaming is the Legislative branch every single dem and repub, ALL OF THEM, for this big pile of crap we are currently seeing. Any one that see no fault in either party, or wants to place all the blame on the president needs their head checked.

 

[woolfe9999]

Assuming that the OP is correct in what was quoted, it comes down to the Dems letting Obama make a pledge they had no intention of keeping, and changed the language knowing full well that at least in part people would would support the bill because of still having freedom of choice.

So while it's true that Obama did not write the legislation, it IS true that what was sold is not what is happening.

We were deceived.

Now an argument was put forward as "So there is no guarantee that your place of work would keep the same insurance plan." While that's literally true, that's not how this was sold.

So the Dems have proven that they aren't being honest with this issue, and Republican past issues notwithstanding, this validates my concerns. They'll lie when it suits them. That others lie makes them no better.

How would you characterize the lie, and who exactly do you think lied? Just trying to get some clarity in this issue.

This was the sequence of events:

Obama made a pledge at the outset.

The House version of the bill kept the pledge.

The Senate version of the bill kept the pledge until late in the process when it was amended.

In conference the House and Senate dems we going to modify the bill to remove whatever offending language was added.

Color me confused regarding who lied about what.

- wolf

 

[Fear No Evil]

What we as a people should be blaming is the Legislative branch every single dem and repub, ALL OF THEM, for this big pile of crap we are currently seeing. Any one that see no fault in either party, or wants to place all the blame on the president needs their head checked.

What role did the Republicans play in this mess of a bill? Don't use the BS excuse of 'they both suck' when at least when it comes to THIS bill, the R's had no ability to change it for the better or worse, OR to prevent it from passing.

 

[Fear No Evil]

How would you characterize the lie, and who exactly do you think lied? Just trying to get some clarity in this issue.

This was the sequence of events:

Obama made a pledge at the outset.

The House version of the bill kept the pledge.

The Senate version of the bill kept the pledge until late in the process when it was amended.

In conference the House and Senate dems we going to modify the bill to remove whatever offending language was added.

Color me confused regarding who lied about what.

- wolf

It comes down to 2 things for me. First of all, this point was a KEY POINT that Obama was making about the new HC plan. You could KEEP your existing coverage. He repeated that every speech and every campaign stop. Second, this WAS in the bill they were trying to pass just a month or 2 ago and ONLY was brought up by Obama after the MA election slapped them around.

I fully believe that if Brown had not been elected, this provision would NOT be being discussed and would NOT be removed. I think this is a damage control move by Obama to make people believe he is looking out for them. His words about it being important to SAY that (Not DO it) also point to that, but I admit that maybe he just read the teleprompter wrong.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What role did the Republicans play in this mess of a bill? Don't use the BS excuse of 'they both suck' when at least when it comes to THIS bill, the R's had no ability to change it for the better or worse, OR to prevent it from passing.

They both suck, but in this case the Dems are all alone in how this is written. Don't worry, I'll bash the Reps as soon as they pull a similar boner

 

[HumblePie]

What role did the Republicans play in this mess of a bill? Don't use the BS excuse of 'they both suck' when at least when it comes to THIS bill, the R's had no ability to change it for the better or worse, OR to prevent it from passing.

Because first off, this was a big enough bill that the Repubs for the most part were going to Filabuster for the sake of Filabustering. Which is exactly what happened. Dems then tried to get a few people over on their side from the Repubs, and changes were made because of Repubs filabustering. Backdoor deals came next, and basically a lot of posturing, finger pointing, and name calling came next from both sides. Everyone took a whack at the bill, and it became a steaming pile of crap in the Senate. Again, BOTH SIDES ARE TO BLAME. Look, if Repubs had actual problems with parts of the bill, then they need to put forth actual compromises that they think WORK. Not sit on their asses and say, "We don't like it because it came from you." It was stupid and childish what the repubs did, and it is also the case when the dems do it to. Actually, it childish when ANYONE behaves like this. The "neener neener neener" attitude of "if I can't have it, neither can you" bullshit needs to go. It has zero place in governing a country.

Again, I stand by my opinion from what I've read, seen, and heard from all sides of the situation that everyone is to blame for this. Period. If you don't like that because you got a hard on for your personal party that's your problem and doesn't change the facts that current partisan "politicking" is hurting this country.

 

[woolfe9999]

It comes down to 2 things for me. First of all, this point was a KEY POINT that Obama was making about the new HC plan. You could KEEP your existing coverage. He repeated that every speech and every campaign stop. Second, this WAS in the bill they were trying to pass just a month or 2 ago and ONLY was brought up by Obama after the MA election slapped them around.

I fully believe that if Brown had not been elected, this provision would NOT be being discussed and would NOT be removed. I think this is a damage control move by Obama to make people believe he is looking out for them. His words about it being important to SAY that (Not DO it) also point to that, but I admit that maybe he just read the teleprompter wrong.

Oh, I get it now. This comes down to an assumption you are making, namely, that you simply do not believe Obama when he said they were getting rid of this. You'll assume whatever you assume. Can't help you there.

- wolf

 

[Robor]

Anti Obama* troll posts a troll thread. News @ 11.

 

[woolfe9999]

They both suck, but in this case the Dems are all alone in how this is written. Don't worry, I'll bash the Reps as soon as they pull a similar boner

Fair enough. But I still want to know who exactly you thinked lied. I understand FNE's position here - he doesn't believe Obama when he says that they were getting this out of the bill in conference. Is that essentially your position as well?

- wolf

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Fair enough. But I still want to know who exactly you thinked lied. I understand FNE's position here - he doesn't believe Obama when he says that they were getting this out of the bill in conference. Is that essentially your position as well?

- wolf

My position is that the Dems as a whole led people to believe that there would be choice. Obama said that would be the case and it wasn't. Now Obama can't force Congress to write in a particular way, so I'm not blaming him.

We do know that Congress was aware of how this was sold, and they decided to change something people were counting on without mentioning it. As far as I'm concerned Obama did the right thing for not deflecting the issue.

My problem is not with him, but rather with those who knew precisely what they were doing, and that is Congress.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Oh, I get it now. This comes down to an assumption you are making, namely, that you simply do not believe Obama when he said they were getting rid of this. You'll assume whatever you assume. Can't help you there.

- wolf

No, I believe Obama was LYING when he said all through last year, up until about a week ago, that we would have the ability to keep our existing plans when the bill said otherwise. Had Brown not been elected this WOULD have been in the bill passed by the senate, and more than likely in the overall bill passed because I believe Obama KNEW and SUPPORTED this being in the bill based on his choice of words in the speech.

I don't doubt he may try to get it removed NOW.. but thats only because they were caught.