I bet nothing happens except prices skyrocket.

[Exterous]

if you have ATT, set a passcode in your account. No passy no changey.

There have been more than a few cases of cell phone carrier employees involved in SIM swaps.

More on topic: I agree with those that say it's a bad time to try and tackle gun control

 

[ch33zw1z]

There have been more than a few cases of cell phone carrier employees involved in SIM swaps.

More on topic: I agree with those that say it's a bad time to try and tackle gun control

Cant just find good offshore help these days.

 

[Zorba]

I'm all for the universal background checks and age limits. But look:

The ban on assault weapons has very deep meaning. When I went to school nobody gave a thought to the possibility that we might get shot any minute. NOBODY. Now, there's not a school in America where this is true. The kids are terrorized. They have drills. They are basically taught to imagine that someone is going to burst in any second with a machine gun and kill everyone in the classroom. Banning assault weapons, in fact making it a very serious crime to be in possession of one, would go a long way toward relieving this very grievous situation.

I don't disagree with you, but I also know it is political suicide at the moment and there are more important things right now. Schools should drop the drills bullshit, they do nothing but terrorize kids and make them scared. And it makes gun nuts feel like they've done something.

 

[Muse]

I don't disagree with you, but I also know it is political suicide at the moment and there are more important things right now. Schools should drop the drills bullshit, they do nothing but terrorize kids and make them scared. And it makes gun nuts feel like they've done something.

That's the consensus here, but I wonder. The Biden administration hasn't come across as myopic or out of touch. They might have a blind spot there, I suppose, but I don't share the alarm of others here. I'm not a gun owner, am not clueless but I'm not like so many posters here who can clearly walk into a gun store and feel right at home. Many seem anxious to put their machismo on display.

I have not even heard mention on national news on the major networks of the proposed anti-firearm legislation this thread is addressing. I haven't noticed any articles at New York Times online, either. I imagine they are there but they are low profile for sure. In fact, this thread is the only place I've seen or heard any mention of it.

 

[Fenixgoon]

That's the consensus here, but I wonder. The Biden administration hasn't come across as myopic or out of touch. They might have a blind spot there, I suppose, but I don't share the alarm of others here. I'm not a gun owner, am not clueless but I'm not like so many posters here who can clearly walk into a gun store and feel right at home. Many seem anxious to put their machismo on display.

I have not even heard mention on national news on the major networks of the proposed anti-firearm legislation this thread is addressing. I haven't noticed any articles at New York Times online, either. I imagine they are there but they are low profile for sure. In fact, this thread is the only place I've seen or heard any mention of it.

after i saw this thread i actually checked foxnews.com and didn't see anything on the home page. i was a little surprised.

 

[shortylickens]

Really? Gun control before a million more useful things like voting rights?

Nobody said that.
All Joey stated was he wants to get on it. He didnt say only this or this first.

 

[zzyzxroad]

I don't disagree with you, but I also know it is political suicide at the moment and there are more important things right now. Schools should drop the drills bullshit, they do nothing but terrorize kids and make them scared. And it makes gun nuts feel like they've done something.

Mass school shootings are extremely rare and scarring the crap out of kids nation wide is indeed ridiculous. How parents allowed that to become a national trend is astonishing. Forcing kids to have a deep seeded fear of over something that is a virtual impossibility for them to be a part of is illogical. It reminds me of the terror I has of nuclear war when I was a child.

I'd add that an assault weapons ban isn't going to have any real world impact on gun homicides. ever. I don't see getting to a point where we should ever entertaining it. Our efforts are always going to better utilized trying to improve the lives of folks in communities who suffer high cases of violent crime.

 

[Zorba]

Mass school shootings are extremely rare and scarring the crap out of kids nation wide is indeed ridiculous. How parents allowed that to become a national trend is astonishing. Forcing kids to have a deep seeded fear of over something that is a virtual impossibility for them to be a part of is illogical. It reminds me of the terror I has of nuclear war when I was a child.

I'd add that an assault weapons ban isn't going to have any real world impact on gun homicides. ever. I don't see getting to a point where we should ever entertaining it. Our efforts are always going to better utilized trying to improve the lives of folks in communities who suffer high cases of violent crime.

It's the gun nutters that pushed the drills. It relieves them from any responsibility to take real action. And it make the kids afraid that they may be attacked at any moment, just the type of fear the gun industry needs to sell their metal dick extenders.

If the goal is saving kids though, tough punishments on not securing your guns properly would save far more children's lives via reduction in suicide, accidents, and crime with stolen guns than banning assault rifles. But I think many gun nuts would rather lose their ARs than actually put their gun in a safe. And god forbid anyone talk about smart guns, even for cops.

 

[zzyzxroad]

It's the gun nutters that pushed the drills. It relieves them from any responsibility to take real action. And it make the kids afraid that they may be attacked at any moment, just the type of fear the gun industry needs to sell their metal dick extenders.

If the goal is saving kids though, tough punishments on not securing your guns properly would save far more children's lives via reduction in suicide, accidents, and crime with stolen guns than banning assault rifles. But I think many gun nuts would rather lose their ARs than actually put their gun in a safe. And god forbid anyone talk about smart guns, even for cops.

You are probably right but I need to take a closer look at who pushed for them as I recall a decent number of Dems who were for them as well.

It is astonishing that the people making the most noise about the right to own a gun are dead silent on taking responsibility for the guns you own. If 8 out of every 10 crimes committed with a gun are done with one obtained illegally we should take a really deep dive into that stat. The guns were all legally owned at one time. Tracing guns involved in a crime back to the reseller probably needs a lot more attention. We can setup the opposite of a frequent flyer rewards program for resellers.

Something to look into but not going to have a significant impact on actual deaths. People age 19 and under have been increasingly kilning themselves by suffocation. I doubt a child that wants to kill themselves will be detoured by lack of access to a gun (meaningful % anyway). Same for crime, put most of our efforts into treating the cause.

 

[pcgeek11]

semiautomatic firearm with a barrel length exceeding 18". next?

So an AR15 isn't always an assault rifle?

AR-15 barrels are available in lengths ranging from 7” to 24”, with 16” being the most common. In addition to meeting the distance requirements of most shooters, rifle barrel lengths of 16” or greater do not require a Class III tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

 

[Fenixgoon]

So an AR15 isn't always an assault rifle?

AR-15 barrels are available in lengths ranging from 7” to 24”, with 16” being the most common. In addition to meeting the distance requirements of most shooters, rifle barrel lengths of 16” or greater do not require a Class III tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

View attachment 39818

Ah 16" is the magic number, not 18".
But yes it would fall under that definition because under 16" is already regulated as a short barrel rifle. Most people are not going to jump through that extra hoop. Certain enthusiasts will of course, but the numbers will be vastly lower.

 

[Muse]

It's the gun nutters that pushed the drills. It relieves them from any responsibility to take real action. And it make the kids afraid that they may be attacked at any moment, just the type of fear the gun industry needs to sell their metal dick extenders.

If the goal is saving kids though, tough punishments on not securing your guns properly would save far more children's lives via reduction in suicide, accidents, and crime with stolen guns than banning assault rifles. But I think many gun nuts would rather lose their ARs than actually put their gun in a safe. And god forbid anyone talk about smart guns, even for cops.

What's a "smart gun?" A gun that knows who's holding it? Hmm, not a bad idea, huh! When the fuck are we gonna wake up?

 

[Zorba]

You are probably right but I need to take a closer look at who pushed for them as I recall a decent number of Dems who were for them as well.

It is astonishing that the people making the most noise about the right to own a gun are dead silent on taking responsibility for the guns you own. If 8 out of every 10 crimes committed with a gun are done with one obtained illegally we should take a really deep dive into that stat. The guns were all legally owned at one time. Tracing guns involved in a crime back to the reseller probably needs a lot more attention. We can setup the opposite of a frequent flyer rewards program for resellers.

Something to look into but not going to have a significant impact on actual deaths. People age 19 and under have been increasingly kilning themselves by suffocation. I doubt a child that wants to kill themselves will be detoured by lack of access to a gun (meaningful % anyway). Same for crime, put most of our efforts into treating the cause.

There is quite a bit of research that shows lack of guns does decrease suicide rate. You have to remember there are far more suicide attempts than suicides, however gun rarely fail and offer zero bailout timeout. Most other suicide methods carry a lower success rate and take time so the person can change their mind or be found. Many people that live through an attempt never try again.

 

[Zorba]

What's a "smart gun?" A gun that knows who's holding it? Hmm, not a bad idea, huh! When the fuck are we gonna wake up?

Yes. It is a gun that can only be shot by the owner. Gun nuts fucking hate them. A gun store tried to sell them in like 2016 and they got death threats and boycotts. So they've been available for years, just not in the US, not even for police who are often shot with their own gun and shoot people for "reaching" for their guns.

 

[Stokely]

Give it up, the bums lost. We as a nation are hopelessly addicted to guns, like no other nation on earth (our number of guns per citizen is WAY higher than anywhere else). There's other problems that Democrats can and should go after, and we need to just put gun deaths down in the same category as thunderstorm and shark attack deaths--stay out of danger if you can, but sometimes they get you.

Hospital mistakes cost hundreds of thousands of lives a year, that would be a safer issue to tackle if we have to have another one on top of covid and global warming and police brutality.

For the record I'm anti-gun but at a certain point you stop banging your head against a wall and move on.

 

[Muse]

There is quite a bit of research that shows lack of guns does decrease suicide rate. You have to remember there are far more suicide attempts than suicides, however gun rarely fail and offer zero bailout timeout. Most other suicide methods carry a lower success rate and take time so the person can change their mind or be found. Many people that live through an attempt never try again.

Great points. "Pulling the trigger" with a gun pointed at your own head is generally instantly fatal, unless you're playing Russian Roulette.

 

[Muse]

Yes. It is a gun that can only be shot by the owner. Gun nuts fucking hate them. A gun store tried to sell them in like 2016 and they got death threats and boycotts. So they've been available for years, just not in the US, not even for police who are often shot with their own gun and shoot people for "reaching" for their guns.

I have to think that the aversion to smart guns is symptomatic of American psychosis. We are a nation of idiots.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

But I think many gun nuts would rather lose their ARs than actually put their gun in a safe. And god forbid anyone talk about smart guns, even for cops.

Really? Every single gun nutter I know would get all over my ass if I were to tell them I had an unsecured firearm. I think the gun nutters might be on your side on this one.

 

[Zorba]

Really? Every single gun nutter I know would get all over my ass if I were to tell them I had an unsecured firearm. I think the gun nutters might be on your side on this one.

There are different levels of gun nuts. All the gun people I know who are educated and have professional jobs keep their guns locked for the most part. But you get to the blue collar, true nutters, safes are not a thing, gun in every room of the house, just in case. Even my in-laws that aren't really gun people have their rifle and shotgun just sitting out in the open in their closet.

 

[zzyzxroad]

There is quite a bit of research that shows lack of guns does decrease suicide rate. You have to remember there are far more suicide attempts than suicides, however gun rarely fail and offer zero bailout timeout. Most other suicide methods carry a lower success rate and take time so the person can change their mind or be found. Many people that live through an attempt never try again.

I don't want to keep going off topic but if you just look at a high level and take Japan or South Korea I don't know how that statistic can be true. Both have very strict gun laws and higher rates of subside than the US. I' m not arguing that people should not be responsible for securing their guns but want to ensure we deal in facts when it comes to having a gun discussion. We should only put energy on thigs that are going to net us less lost lives.

If you have data showing otherwise post it and I will probably start a new thread. It is a topic that is worth discussing.

 

[Zorba]

I don't want to keep going off topic but if you just look at a high level and take Japan or South Korea I don't know how that statistic can be true. Both have very strict gun laws and higher rates of subside than the US. I' m not arguing that people should not be responsible for securing their guns but want to ensure we deal in facts when it comes to having a gun discussion. We should only put energy on thigs that are going to net us less lost lives.

If you have data showing otherwise post it and I will probably start a new thread. It is a topic that is worth discussing.

Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Most efforts to prevent suicide focus on why people take their lives. But as we understand more about who attempts suicide

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Suicide is very misunderstood, not all suicidal people will commit suicide no matter what. Ease and lethalness are a big deal. I really don't think comparing US suicides to Japan and Korea really makes sense, there are some extremely different views of suicide in the different cultures, beyond the cultures being extremely different to begin with.

‘How Did We Not Know?’ Gun Owners Confront a Suicide Epidemic (Published 2020)

The toll of self-inflicted gun deaths has led to an unusual alliance between suicide-prevention advocates and gun-rights proponents.

www.nytimes.com

 

[zzyzxroad]

Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Most efforts to prevent suicide focus on why people take their lives. But as we understand more about who attempts suicide

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Suicide is very misunderstood, not all suicidal people will commit suicide no matter what. Ease and lethalness are a big deal. I really don't think comparing US suicides to Japan and Korea really makes sense, there are some extremely different views of suicide in the different cultures, beyond the cultures being extremely different to begin with.

‘How Did We Not Know?’ Gun Owners Confront a Suicide Epidemic (Published 2020)

The toll of self-inflicted gun deaths has led to an unusual alliance between suicide-prevention advocates and gun-rights proponents.

www.nytimes.com

Sorry I was specifically talking about kids getting a hold of unsecured guns. Its actually hard to find articles that separate people under that age of 18 and people over the age of 18 so I manual ran the numbers(below link has a ton of data). In 2019 for kids who were 16 or 17 years of age, 44% used a gun as the method of suicide. I expect that to jump for people 18 years of age as they can go get their own gun but it was 45%. So my assumption was wrong and parents really are doing a horrible job.

Underlying Cause of Death, 1999-2020 Request

wonder.cdc.gov

 

[pcgeek11]

They will first need to define "Assault Rifle".

semiautomatic firearm with a barrel length exceeding 18". next?

So an AR15 isn't always an assault rifle?

AR-15 barrels are available in lengths ranging from 7” to 24”, with 16” being the most common. In addition to meeting the distance requirements of most shooters, rifle barrel lengths of 16” or greater do not require a Class III tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

View attachment 39818

Ah 16" is the magic number, not 18".
But yes it would fall under that definition because under 16" is already regulated as a short barrel rifle. Most people are not going to jump through that extra hoop. Certain enthusiasts will of course, but the numbers will be vastly lower.

So by your definition my Winchester 22 LR is an assault rifle. It's never assaulted anything but tin cans and the squirrel community.

That is laughable.

 

[Fenixgoon]

So by your definition my Winchester 22 LR is an assault rifle. It's never assaulted anything but tin cans and the squirrel community.

That is laughable.

So if you got shot by a 22LR, would your response "well at least it wasn't a larger caliber or hollow point"?
Or would your response be "fuuuuuuuck I need medical attention"?

You're asking someone to establish a legal definition, which is an inherently arbitrary process. You're literally defining something that is currently undefined. The only thing that matters is that everyone agrees on the definition.

Since short barrel rifles are already defined and regulated (unless you'd like to expound upon the entire sensibility of a 16" cutoff, it's just as arbitrary), I'm simply picking up where SBR leaves off.

I'm open to alternatives that are clear, concise, lack loopholes (intended or not), and are likely to prevent mass shootings. So far you've offered nothing.

Your turn.

 

[nickqt]

So if you got shot by a 22LR, would your response "well at least it wasn't a larger caliber or hollow point"?
Or would your response be "fuuuuuuuck I need medical attention"?

You're asking someone to establish a legal definition, which is an inherently arbitrary process. You're literally defining something that is currently undefined. The only thing that matters is that everyone agrees on the definition.

Since short barrel rifles are already defined and regulated (unless you'd like to expound upon the entire sensibility of a 16" cutoff, it's just as arbitrary), I'm simply picking up where SBR leaves off.

I'm open to alternatives that are clear, concise, lack loopholes (intended or not), and are likely to prevent mass shootings. So far you've offered nothing.

Your turn.

The best way to prevent mass shootings is to unfuck the economy and our society.

300 million semi-automatic guns aren't getting "bought back" confiscated, banned, etc.

So, I'd say the Democrats should start by nuking the filibuster, and start legislating the way they say they'd like to legislate but for the filibuster.