I am pre-loading Skyrim Special Edition right now.

[zinfamous]

There are a couple of magic overhauls that should help with that. Not that I have tried any, as I am usually a sword and board person anyway

Yeah, I have tried them, but that's my point, really: you have to compare the vanilla design intent in this game when considering base classes. Skyrim is a world of hardy viking-types that don't really trust anything beyond ale and cold hard steel. Magic is, by default, a relative non-presence in this part of the world. It is and should be a very different type of world from that Morrowind. If you're into the whole immersion thing with these games, sword and board is the more typical way to experience this world. Not to discount being the "outsider" mage, it's just that the game wasn't really set up to favor magic, and it shows.

I certainly tried one of the more popular spell mods--at the time, anyway (the one where you find new books and craft spells with gold bars and such)--and it definitely opens up the play for casters...but it also isn't balanced very well. I know, funny argument to make when you can essentially shield bash the alarmingly weak dragons to death, playing max difficulty and vanilla skill progression done correctly.

 

[bystander36]

Yeah, I have tried them, but that's my point, really: you have to compare the vanilla design intent in this game when considering base classes. Skyrim is a world of hardy viking-types that don't really trust anything beyond ale and cold hard steel. Magic is, by default, a relative non-presence in this part of the world. It is and should be a very different type of world from that Morrowind. If you're into the whole immersion thing with these games, sword and board is the more typical way to experience this world. Not to discount being the "outsider" mage, it's just that the game wasn't really set up to favor magic, and it shows.

I certainly tried one of the more popular spell mods--at the time, anyway (the one where you find new books and craft spells with gold bars and such)--and it definitely opens up the play for casters...but it also isn't balanced very well. I know, funny argument to make when you can essentially shield bash the alarmingly weak dragons to death, playing max difficulty and vanilla skill progression done correctly.

In vanilla at least, mages are a tough class to play, but they can be played, and do become strong. You just have to be very careful with how you develop your character. You might also have to play at adept or expert for the first few levels to keep the painful levels in check.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, just tried it out on my i7-2600 + GTX 960 4GB
I feel like it actually runs a bit smoother, but I'm not seeing a night-and-day difference in quality... but I'm not having these slowdown complaints like people with faster PCs seem to be having.

Thumbs up from me - can't beat free!

Yea, rather pleased with the performance and visual improvements on my low end system. Combat seems smoother and more accurate as well. Makes me really want a new single player game on this engine.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

In vanilla at least, mages are a tough class to play, but they can be played, and do become strong. You just have to be very careful with how you develop your character. You might also have to play at adept or expert for the first few levels to keep the painful levels in check.

What drove me nuts about the mage playstyle, at least for destruction, was that the mid-level spells ended up becoming the best (dual casting the what, adept or whatever fireblast things?), just because the higher level ones were *wildly* inefficient and generally you'd run out of mana before actually killing whatever you were attacking, unless you were superbly equipped (in which case it hardly mattered what you did). An equivalently equipped/leveled 2hander or sword and board just lawnmowered through stuff but if you were using your expert or whatever level fireball things? Done in like four casts. The 'efficient' one took like 5 minutes to kill a dragon, but at least you could do it without drinking pots or sitting around getting mana back.

Don't even get me started on that ridiculous master level aoe that took 12 seconds to cast (was actually unable to kill a mudcrab on the highest difficulty level). Might as well just punch stuff to death.

 

[bystander36]

What drove me nuts about the mage playstyle, at least for destruction, was that the mid-level spells ended up becoming the best (dual casting the what, adept or whatever fireblast things?), just because the higher level ones were *wildly* inefficient and generally you'd run out of mana before actually killing whatever you were attacking, unless you were superbly equipped (in which case it hardly mattered what you did). An equivalently equipped/leveled 2hander or sword and board just lawnmowered through stuff but if you were using your expert or whatever level fireball things? Done in like four casts. The 'efficient' one took like 5 minutes to kill a dragon, but at least you could do it without drinking pots or sitting around getting mana back.

Don't even get me started on that ridiculous master level aoe that took 12 seconds to cast (was actually unable to kill a mudcrab on the highest difficulty level). Might as well just punch stuff to death.

That was the trick. You needed to learn enchanting, and reduce the cost of casting. You could get several items with 10% reduced casting cost really early so your spells cost nearly half. From there, keep working on enchanting, and make it near 100%. Once it's 100%, you can do what ever spells you want.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah that's what I figured, I never played a *ton* with enchanting even though I should have. By the time I had it leveled up, I also had all weapons capped out so I could just one-shot stuff in the face with a hammer. I loved the mage playstyle it just constantly fell behind. Having said that, I'm gonna play in SE and push a few magic mods in (have Apocalypse atm) to play more with it. If anything so I have more than 'fireball, fireball, or fireball'.

 

[bystander36]

There is one more trick at the start, just to get by until you do get your reduced spell cost going. The flame spell, which is channeled, costs energy per second. The cost of holding the spell down is broken down into several ticks per second, so holding it 1/4 of a second, costs 25% of 1 second, but the damage appears to only be applied 1 time per second. That means you can save a lot of energy by casting in short bursts over and over. You might consider that an exploit of bad game mechanics, but it will help you conserve energy the first 10-20 levels.

Edit: I may remember it wrong. It might be the burning ticks that make it more energy efficient to do it in short bursts. I'm not 100% sure atm.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Ironically at low levels I never felt I had issues.. tended to rely a bit on summons at that point as well which helped. Higher levels is where I always personally ran into spell efficiency problems (mostly against annoying dragons).

 

[bystander36]

Ah, in that cast, enchanting is the key. Another tip, collect alchemy ingredients. Once you get the skill up, it's a great cash generating skill, which allows you to go around buying up shards to work enchanting. Enchanting alchemy on your gear (or buy alchemy gear), will improve the value of your potions, which makes them worth more, and improve faster (the quality of the potion is directly related to how fast the skill improves).

 

[bystander36]

And just to add. I know mages seem tough at first. I never played one for the longest time, because it seemed so weak and difficult. Once I figured out how to advance them, they became a lot more fun.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm pretty OCD when it comes to TES games, so I'm never, ever without cash. It's actually something I've always had a complaint with (if such a thing can be a complaint) in that everyone around the world is wearing rags yet I can buy literally *everything in the game world* within a few days worth of work, probably without even fighting. Incidentally I've also always found alchemy very very tedious, despite the fact I collect every damn flower and berry I find.

I've always had more fun with mage classes though and never had any difficulties with morrowind/obliv/skyrim as one (though cramped quarters at low levels can get dicey). I also tend toward the playstyle of archer/mage, which I think TES likes to coin as a 'witch hunter' or something (I have a vague memory of that being a premade class in Battlespire) and throw up summons to block off tight areas.

Few hundred hours between my elder scrolls titles, mostly as a mage

 

[CrackRabbit]

Alright, stupid question time, and I'm not sure anyone here knows the answer, figure I should ask anyway.
I had Skyrim and two of the three DLC, ended up purchasing the third on Saturday (10/29) am I SOL on getting the free upgrade or do I just need to wait for it to process?

 

[shortylickens]

And just to add. I know mages seem tough at first. I never played one for the longest time, because it seemed so weak and difficult. Once I figured out how to advance them, they became a lot more fun.

Pick the Mage stone, use the armor spells while NOT wearing armor and grab the armor spell perk, under Alteration.
Also theres a mod for earth, air, and water spells.

 

[zinfamous]

Shorty, how are the charcter model mods for the SE addition? are they working well and are there nice booby and curvy mods that you would consider satisfying?

Alright, stupid question time, and I'm not sure anyone here knows the answer, figure I should ask anyway.
I had Skyrim and two of the three DLC, ended up purchasing the third on Saturday (10/29) am I SOL on getting the free upgrade or do I just need to wait for it to process?

I believe what was posted earlier is that you needed them in your account by the 28th, but that's what people are saying. I dunno, but someone should investigate.

 

[bystander36]

I'm pretty OCD when it comes to TES games, so I'm never, ever without cash. It's actually something I've always had a complaint with (if such a thing can be a complaint) in that everyone around the world is wearing rags yet I can buy literally *everything in the game world* within a few days worth of work, probably without even fighting. Incidentally I've also always found alchemy very very tedious, despite the fact I collect every damn flower and berry I find.

I've always had more fun with mage classes though and never had any difficulties with morrowind/obliv/skyrim as one (though cramped quarters at low levels can get dicey). I also tend toward the playstyle of archer/mage, which I think TES likes to coin as a 'witch hunter' or something (I have a vague memory of that being a premade class in Battlespire) and throw up summons to block off tight areas.

Few hundred hours between my elder scrolls titles, mostly as a mage

Yeah, Alchemy, and enchanting are both tedious to level up. I wrote a script for my G13 to auto level those skills, more so for enchanting. With alchemy, I found a list on a site with every combo there is. I'll simply go through it and uncover the potions I know are worth a lot. I'll also wear lots of +alchemy gear if I can, and I save all my training points per level to spend on alchemy. Once you discover the most expensive potions, you can level up a point with just a few potions. At the early levels, I've gained an entire skill point from a single potion and as little as 5 at the highest levels, though 100% is not needed with alchemy.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Alchemy and Enchanting were also the most grossly imbalanced skills in the game (well, maybe Archery). With a modest amount of min/maxing they would make your character obscenely powerful. If I ever play again I'm definitely hitting this game hard with gameplay/balance overhaul mods. Mechanics and balance are always the weakest part of these Bethesda games.

 

[bystander36]

Alchemy and Enchanting were also the most grossly imbalanced skills in the game (well, maybe Archery). With a modest amount of min/maxing they would make your character obscenely powerful. If I ever play again I'm definitely hitting this game hard with gameplay/balance overhaul mods. Mechanics and balance are always the weakest part of these Bethesda games.

I'm pretty sure Blacksmithing is by far the most imbalanced skill. You can make your weapons multiple times more damage with 100% blacksmith. Although enchanting can also be powerful, but it's also necessary to make a playable mage. Alchemy can also be a huge assist to make a mage work. Whether it is for illusion, which stops working as an offensive spell without skill boosts, or for mana consumption.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The big thing about ench/alch were the stacking % buffs, that could get you crafting pots that gave you +1000's% to whatever, including enchanting and alchemy (which let you further buff those). Could basically make a god (+1000% to all regens, damage, whatever). There's also no barrier to this, you just exploit alch fortifications repeatedly.

 

[bystander36]

The big thing about ench/alch were the stacking % buffs, that could get you crafting pots that gave you +1000's% to whatever, including enchanting and alchemy (which let you further buff those). Could basically make a god (+1000% to all regens, damage, whatever). There's also no barrier to this, you just exploit alch fortifications repeatedly.

Is that part of a mod? You can't enchant enchanting skill, and you can't make alchemy potions. At least with the base game.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I think it was through alternating them, if I'm remembering right. Like alch up an ench fortification potion, enchant an alch fort item, repeat. Been a bit since I read/cared about it.

EDIT: Yep, here:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Skyrim:Alchemy/Enchanting_Loop

 

[bystander36]

I think it was through alternating them, if I'm remembering right. Like alch up an ench fortification potion, enchant an alch fort item, repeat. Been a bit since I read/cared about it.

EDIT: Yep, here:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Skyrim:Alchemy/Enchanting_Loop

I don't recall that ever working that way. I mean, I have done what is said there, to get the skill up, but I thought each time you drank a potion, the potion would overwrite the previous one. Is it possible this only happened with or without certain mods?

I will have to test this. Another part of that which never appeared to happen is that once you learn an enchantment, that is it, you can't relearn a stronger version, and no matter how good or bad of an enchantment I learned, I had the exact same maximum skill gained.

 

[ControlD]

I remember reading about the alchemy exploits. I bookmarked the page but I never had enough ambition to actually try it. I'm not sure if this is exactly what was being discussed above but it seems similar.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Skyrim:Alchemy/Enchanting_Loop

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Per the process, you put on fort alch ench items, create/drink fortify resto potions and remove/readd alch items until alch doesn't increase (I guess resto increases alch abilities from gear?).... create fort ench potions, drink, then ench items with +alch, then back to beginning. The fortify resto might be the bug/clencher for the exploit.

For what it's worth, they had something similar in morrowind and oblivion I think so it's not just some weird one-off bug, or I imagine it would have been made note of and removed from future games after MW.

 

[ControlD]

Man, I thought I had all three DLCs but I was missing Hearthfire. Oh well, I'm sure this will be cheap on sale sometime if I really feel like playing again.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Ouch. They should have just given it to anyone who owned Skyrim. I mean really, if you bought the game at any point pre-legendary (and thus with all DLC) you prolly paid full price for it, or near enough.