I am a smoker, the BBQ type.

[ponyo]

I would try not hanging first. Have done short ribs a few times. There could be enough shrinkage at the hook where they could fall. Second putting them bone side down could render the same result has hanging since meat is effectively suspended supported by bone. I've done both these size and cutup pieces.

Made a balsamic/red wine reduction to drizzle over meat when served. Came out pretty good.

I decided to follow your advice and use the Big Joe. Smoking with some apple and hickory wood.

 

[ponyo]

Little less than 2 hours into the cook and the Big Joe is cruising along at around 275 F. I'm spritzing the ribs every hour or so with 70% apple cider vinegar, 15% worchestire sauce, and 15% water mixture.

 

[ponyo]

3.5 hours in, the ribs are almost done.

The right rib is done. It's reading 205 F and probing like butter everywhere.

The left one is reading 200 F and still needs about another 15 minutes or so. It's probing like butter in most places but not everywhere.

The right one is off the smoker and now resting waiting for the other one to finish.

 

[ponyo]

The second one is ready. It's probing like butter everywhere and reading 205 F at the lowest reading.

While the second was resting, I sliced the meat off the first one.

I have eaten lot of beef short ribs in my life. But it was always Korean BBQ Galbi and in soups, never smoked. I knew smoking would be good but this exceeded my expectations. BBQ short ribs are now my favorite BBQ meat. It's better than brisket. If I can buy this cut for cheap, I'm going to stock up.

 

[Spydermag68]

I need to smoke more. Thanks for the BBQ Porn.

 

[ponyo]

Second rack of ribs was even better than the first. My puppy is now enjoying the big beef bones.

 

[echo4747]

Second rack of ribs was even better than the first. My puppy is now enjoying the big beef bones.

The short ribs in the photos look great. Ponyo, would you say the the flavor and texture of the short ribs is similar to the "burnt ends" one would get from the point portion of a whole packer brisket? There is a smaller discount supermarket that has short ribs very often and I always pass them by. After looking at these photos I'm going to purchase some the next time I'm there

 

[HomerJS]

Second rack of ribs was even better than the first. My puppy is now enjoying the big beef bones.

Drool...drool. Nice job!

 

[HomerJS]

Hey Ponyo, What was your smoking temp? I did 250-270 and they took a lot longer then 3.5 hours.

 

[ponyo]

The short ribs in the photos look great. Ponyo, would you say the the flavor and texture of the short ribs is similar to the "burnt ends" one would get from the point portion of a whole packer brisket? There is a smaller discount supermarket that has short ribs very often and I always pass them by. After looking at these photos I'm going to purchase some the next time I'm there

The point end of the brisket does taste similar since the brisket and chuck ribs all come from that general area. But I would say chuck steak/ roast is even closer in flavor and texture to the short ribs. I think you can replicate 90% of the taste and texture of the short ribs with well marbled chuck roast. You just won't get the wow factor of the big bones you get with the short ribs but you'll save lot of money and have awesome BBQ with the chuck roast.

 

[ponyo]

Drool...drool. Nice job!

Thanks!

Hey Ponyo, What was your smoking temp? I did 250-270 and they took a lot longer then 3.5 hours.

The Big Joe dome thermometer showed 275 F and so did the Rubbermaid commercial oven thermometer on the grate. The grate temp was about 185 F when I placed the ribs on the smoker and started the cook. Within 30 minutes or so, the Big Joe settled in at around 275 F where it cooked for the next 3 hours or so. The last 20 minutes or so for the second rib was close to 300 F.

I was little surprised at how fast the ribs cooked. I was expecting closer to 5 hours since I didn't wrap and I spritzed. But faster is better for me so it was nice surprise.

 

[Fritzo]

3.5 hours in, the ribs are almost done.

The right rib is done. It's reading 205 F and probing like butter everywhere.

The left one is reading 200 F and still needs about another 15 minutes or so. It's probing like butter in most places but not everywhere.

The right one is off the smoker and now resting waiting for the other one to finish.

Just an IMO post: you should take them off at 195F and wrap them for 30 minutes. You don't want to go much over 202F or they'll start getting stringy.

 

[Fritzo]

Hey Ponyo, What was your smoking temp? I did 250-270 and they took a lot longer then 3.5 hours.

The Book of Barbecue states: 225F is the temperature you shall use, and 225F is the temperature you shall seek. You shall not cook at 224F, nor at 226F, but 225F is the correct temperature to cook.

::genuflect::

 

[ponyo]

Just an IMO post: you should take them off at 195F and wrap them for 30 minutes. You don't want to go much over 202F or they'll start getting stringy.

I don't cook to one preset finish temperature. I cook until it's done. I try to cook pork butt, beef brisket, and ribs until it's completely probe tender. If that happens at 195 F, great. But more often than not, the meats I cook doesn't become completely probe tender until over 200 F. Usually in the 203-208 F range. It just happened both beef ribs became completely probe tender at 205 F.

 

[ponyo]

The Book of Barbecue states: 225F is the temperature you shall use, and 225F is the temperature you shall seek. You shall not cook at 224F, nor at 226F, but 225F is the correct temperature to cook.

::genuflect::

Part of the reason I try to post and document my cooks is so I can learn. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I remember all the misinformation I read as I started out and thought was true. Only through trial and error did I learn what worked and what doesn't. What's important and what's not. I'm still learning everyday and every time I cook. I still remember my first cook and the struggle I had trying to maintain 225 F on my WSM. I can laugh now but I really believed BBQ had to be cooked at 225 F and not one degree lower or higher because so many people on the internet told me so. Looking back, it's amazing how much misinformation is out there and quoted by so called BBQ experts.

 

[Jeeebus]

mehh... the taste difference between brisket/pork butt cooked at 225 vs 325 is negligible.

and yet one finishes in 5-6 hours and the other finishes in 12-15 hours.

 

[ponyo]

mehh... the taste difference between brisket/pork butt cooked at 225 vs 325 is negligible.

and yet one finishes in 5-6 hours and the other finishes in 12-15 hours.

I remember you telling us you like to cook hot and fast and there wasn't much difference in taste between the two methods. I was so brainwashed by the 225 F is the magical BBQ temp crowd that I didn't fully believe you. But I now know you're 100% correct. There isn't much difference other than you have shorter window for optimal result with hotter cook. If you cook at 225 F, you have much wider window where you can pull the meat and still come out great. So for a beginner, 225 F is probably the better temperature to cook at since it's so forgiving and they can make mistakes and still be ok. But I'm with you. Hot and fast is where it's at.

I'm of opinion 275 F is the perfect BBQ cooking temp for pork and beef. But I'm also a believer you should cook at whatever temperature your particular cooker likes to run. Every BBQ smoker has certain temp it likes to run. Instead of fighting with the equipment and trying to get it to run at certain temperature it doesn't like to run, let it go and find the sweet spot for that particular cooker. I learned from the UDS and PBC guys that you don't need water pan or water for WSM and you can cook 325+ F no problem and still turn out terrific BBQ. So now I run my WSM at minimum 275 F and often times at 300+ F with no or empty water pan. My WSM loves cooking at 275 and the smoke profile is much better at that temperature. At lower temperature, I feel like my smoker is choking and not burning as cleanly. Same with my kamados. It loves 275+ F so I let it cook there. With so many great thermometers available now, it's simple to keep track and still cook fast without missing the optimal finish window.

 

[HomerJS]

My magic number has been 250 for most cooks. Beef and pork. I'll usually get closer to 300 for poultry. I try to pull it off 5-7 deg below done temp and wrap. It will internally cook another 5 deg (thicker cooks)

Pork ribs I can eyeball based on meat pulling back from bone.

Short ribs when meat pulls back I start checking temp. Once temps get to 185-190 use toothpick to judge removal.

Poultry I just remove when up to temp.

Everyone's MMV. Like ponyo said I read what people have done and experiment myself. Usually get it right after 1-2 trys.

Example watched BBQ shows on TV for a while. Some cooks do brisket at 325. I don't trust myself so I take longer.

 

[Drako]

mehh... the taste difference between brisket/pork butt cooked at 225 vs 325 is negligible.

and yet one finishes in 5-6 hours and the other finishes in 12-15 hours.

Meh, just throw it in the oven at 450, and shave off a couple more hours.

But seriously though, if you don't appreciate the differences between perfectly smoked and cooked meat to well smoked and cooked meat, that's OK.

I salute Ponyo for posting here, and applaud his efforts to inform. Constructive posts are rare these days on this forum.

You can't get good smoke at 325, but you can at 280 or less, but maybe that's not your point?

 

[Jeeebus]

You can't get good smoke at 325, but you can at 280 or less, but maybe that's not your point?

Not sure where you're getting your 'facts' here. Smoke only penetrates so far. You're not getting 'better' smoke by keeping it on the smoker at lower temps for an additional 10 hours - once the meat has absorbed what it can, there's no measurable difference between keeping it on the smoker and placing it in the oven. You can argue the point all you like. Perhaps I am not a pulled pork connoisseur (although the amount I have cooked over the last couple years tends to say otherwise) and my taste buds cannot taste the intricate subtleties of +/- 50 degrees, but I can get substantially the same smoke ring/flavor at 6 hours as I can get at 14 hours. Given the difference in convenience (starting at 11am vs starting at 3am for dinner), it's a no-brainer to me.

 

[Fritzo]

I don't cook to one preset finish temperature. I cook until it's done. I try to cook pork butt, beef brisket, and ribs until it's completely probe tender. If that happens at 195 F, great. But more often than not, the meats I cook doesn't become completely probe tender until over 200 F. Usually in the 203-208 F range. It just happened both beef ribs became completely probe tender at 205 F.

That's fine. Just wanted to give some friendly advice. I've been in several BBQ competitions since '95 and have actually had some formal training from pit bosses at the N. Carolina BBQ Society (I'm a registered judge ;D) . If you want consistent results every time, temperature is what you need to follow. The science of it is meat will continue to cook from the inside (especially large cuts with a lot of thermal mass) for quite some time, and depending on the thickness they'll increase in internal temperature 10F-20F. Collagen is what makes tough cuts of meat taste tough, and it will turn to gelatin at 202F. You want any slow roasted meat to get as close to this temperature as possible. Taking your meats off the heat around 195F and wrapping them will ensure they get over 202F but not overcook. Once you get beyond 210F, water starts jetting out of the center of the meat and you'll end up with a product that tastes good if you eat it right away, but will be dried out once it's cooled down.

 

[Fritzo]

Part of the reason I try to post and document my cooks is so I can learn. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I remember all the misinformation I read as I started out and thought was true. Only through trial and error did I learn what worked and what doesn't. What's important and what's not. I'm still learning everyday and every time I cook. I still remember my first cook and the struggle I had trying to maintain 225 F on my WSM. I can laugh now but I really believed BBQ had to be cooked at 225 F and not one degree lower or higher because so many people on the internet told me so. Looking back, it's amazing how much misinformation is out there and quoted by so called BBQ experts.

Maintaining a stable temperature takes some time. You need to build up an ash pile, then learn to choke/feed the coals to regulate. It takes about 2-3 hours to get a stable ash pile set. Remember to open the top vent to increase temp, close it to reduce, and close the bottom if you're burning fuel too fast.

All of this really depends on your grill being nice and sealed too. Air leaks wreck havoc on temperature control. 225F is a guideline- if you get up to 250, it won't hurt much (275 will though- the sugars in your rub will burn). 225F is the Goldilocks zone though and what you should shoot for.

 

[Fritzo]

My magic number has been 250 for most cooks. Beef and pork. I'll usually get closer to 300 for poultry. I try to pull it off 5-7 deg below done temp and wrap. It will internally cook another 5 deg (thicker cooks)

Pork ribs I can eyeball based on meat pulling back from bone.

Short ribs when meat pulls back I start checking temp. Once temps get to 185-190 use toothpick to judge removal.

Poultry I just remove when up to temp.

Everyone's MMV. Like ponyo said I read what people have done and experiment myself. Usually get it right after 1-2 trys.

Example watched BBQ shows on TV for a while. Some cooks do brisket at 325. I don't trust myself so I take longer.

Lean cuts of meat such as chicken, pork loin, etc do well at higher temps with less cooking time. Chicken seems to do best around 325F for 2 or so hours (if whole). I've never seen a single pro do a brisket at 325F...the flat will overcook before the point gets done, resulting in an uneven mess.

 

[HomerJS]

Lean cuts of meat such as chicken, pork loin, etc do well at higher temps with less cooking time. Chicken seems to do best around 325F for 2 or so hours (if whole). I've never seen a single pro do a brisket at 325F...the flat will overcook before the point gets done, resulting in an uneven mess.

I just remember watching a show where Myron Mixon claimed he cooked brisket hot @325. But maybe that name drop is cliche.

BTW - Next time ponyo does short ribs I'm driving to his house!

 

[ponyo]

That's fine. Just wanted to give some friendly advice. I've been in several BBQ competitions since '95 and have actually had some formal training from pit bosses at the N. Carolina BBQ Society (I'm a registered judge ;D) . If you want consistent results every time, temperature is what you need to follow. The science of it is meat will continue to cook from the inside (especially large cuts with a lot of thermal mass) for quite some time, and depending on the thickness they'll increase in internal temperature 10F-20F. Collagen is what makes tough cuts of meat taste tough, and it will turn to gelatin at 202F. You want any slow roasted meat to get as close to this temperature as possible. Taking your meats off the heat around 195F and wrapping them will ensure they get over 202F but not overcook. Once you get beyond 210F, water starts jetting out of the center of the meat and you'll end up with a product that tastes good if you eat it right away, but will be dried out once it's cooled down.

There is some carryover temp on large piece of meat. But what I've found is that as long as you don't tightly wrap as soon as you remove the meat from the smoker, the carryover effect is minimal at 200+ F internal. If I'm resting the meat for several hours, I will set up a tent for 15-20 minutes after I remove it from the smoker before I tightly foil and wrap it in towel and placing it in resting cooler. That solves the carryover overcooking the meat. If you're the type that tightly wrap as soon as you remove from the smoker, then you might want to pull early so you don't overcook. But the problem with that is you might pull too early.

When I first started out smoking, I followed the preset temp and pulled meat at 195 F and 200 F because I read that's what you're supposed to do. Just like you should only cook at 225 F nonsense. What I found is that sometimes meat was juicy and tender. Sometimes, it was little tough and dry. I now know it was little tough and dry because I pulled too early because I followed the strict final temp pull rule. Every piece of meat is different. It doesn't cook at the same speed and it doesn't finish at the same temperature. The final finish temp is just a guide and you should just use that as the starting point to start poking. I've had meat finish at 195 F and be completely probe tender. But I've had meat that wouldn't probe tender until 208 F. And I've had meat that still wouldn't completely probe tender at 208 F. But whatever the final temperature, if the meat probed like butter everywhere and jiggled like jello, I ended up with great BBQ. But if I got impatient and nervous and pulled before the meat probed like butter everywhere because the temperature was reading 208 F, then usually it wasn't as good and parts of the meat ended up dry and tough.

And competition BBQ is completely different from home BBQ. The competition guys don't cook pork shoulder like you and me. They cook multiple pork shoulders at once for different finish time. They use parts from multiple butts for one plate so they don't cook until the shoulder is all finished. They will cook entire pork shoulder in about 3 hours and be done. Middle of the shoulder won't pull that won't matter because parts of the shoulder they're going to present to the judges will be. They will cook another pork shoulder for 4 hours and take another piece of meat from it. It's a whole different game. The comp guys will finish whole packer brisket in less than 5 hours and that will look nothing like the BBQ you make at home. It will have minimal bark because they cook it in foil pan and cover it tight after about 2 hours. It's the competition guys trying and using lot of different cookers and methods that are changing BBQ and how proper BBQ should be cooked. I like to follow and read about their experiments. It's why I say I'm always learning new stuff because some the the techniques and cookers they use are really interesting. Whole lot more interesting than BBQ must be cooked at 225 F guys.