I am a Christian

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
I think what may be confusing is misrepresenting the opportunity of all people to hear the gospel with death bed repentance. There is a very big difference. All people will have the opportunity to hear the gospel, but if you turn it down while on the Earth, that's it. There's no second chance in Heaven.

They do not go to heaven period. If not saved they go to Hell and there is no 2nd chance there.

Yes, just as I said. There is no second chance. You'll see that right before your little bolded comment.
Incorrect. If you had said there is no second chance, fine. But you said no second chance in heaven. That implies one gets to heaven, though there is no second chance. You may know what your talking about, I may, but others may not. Ensuring that others that may still be drinking milk understand or that none believers are not led astry is what I am after. If you truely stood for what you say you do your attitude would have softened by now.

There is one main purpose to coming here that all people will fulfill, and that's gaining a body. Regardless of how we conduct ourselves here, we will have a body in the life to come. However, the other purposes of life will not be fulfilled automatically. The first chapter of Genesis tell us part to the purpose of life is to 1) learn the good from the evil, 2) have joy, 3) reproduce, and 4) prove worthy to return to God. All of these will be available to all people at some point in time, whether in this life or the life to come.

Actually the 3rd chapter not the first, but no real big mistake. The purpose to come here is because that is what God created us for. He created the universe and man and he created them and they were very good. Though God is in all time and thus saw what would happen, still, this was to be the place for us to walk with Him. Not some other place. Man was by made by God for Good and it was good/perfect/rightiouis. But Sin entered in and man fell. But that was not to be the original intended state.

Yes, I meant to say first part of Genesis, not first chapter, as this is actually contained in chapter two as well.

As for the rest, sin was intended. The fall of man was planned and accounted for. In genesis is says man has become as God, knowing good from evil. So tell me how that is possible without sin? We are destined and able to overcome sin and return to God, but sin must still exist in order for us to overcome it.
That implies that God wanted Adam and Eve to sin and He let them though He could stop it since He set up the setting for A&E. God made man for good and when He was done making man he saw that it was indeed good. Everything He saw as He looked back when all was done was very good. The Word was not written before man. It was delivered because of mans failing along the way. God knowing what will happen is not the same as what God intended. Clearly He intended one thing, but man, in his true free will as Adam and Eve had threw it away. Planed and accounted for does not negate God's intentions either. We were already like God, made in His immage, with a soul. That was intended. Then sin came. Not intended. If you think and say that God intended evil upon man you are much further from the truth than I prevously thought.

I think people make a mistake in believing that immediately after death you will be surrounded by angel and Heavenly beings and it will be very easy and simple to know what is true and right. This is not the case. The location reserved for those who have not heard or accepted the gospel prior to Judgment day was called a prison. Now I don't think this prison is like the local pen, but it definitely won't be the nice, beautiful, proving God exist type of place.

For instance, I would say it would probably be almost exactly as the Earth is now. People may think rather than dying, they have just been reincarnated. Therefore, there's nothing that says "God exist and you must now worship him". So when you hear the gospel there, what is going to make you any more desirous to accept it then as apposed to now? The goal isn't to make it easier for people to accept the gospel. It's only to ensure everyone has the opportunity.

Kind of confusing. When people die they are either saved or not saved.

Yes, that is correct. What you're neglecting and what I'm saying is that those that never had the opportunity to hear the gospel and receive the saving ordinances will have that opportunity.
Is this going to contradict your first reply to me? No second chance. Becuase there truely is no one that never had the opportunity As a True Child of God has the Word or Law of God written upon his heart. Maybe that is not enough for you. But apparently it is enough for God. And just were would your 2nd opportunity come in if they missed your first opportunity while they were alive?

Saved are absent from the flesh and present with the Father.

All people are resurrected prior to the day of Judgment, thus reunited with their body. Any absence from the flesh is only temporary until they are resurrected.
Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
Psa 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, [and] let them be silent in the grave.
Psa 28:1 [[[A Psalm] of David.]] Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, [if] thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
1Sa 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
A child of God dies and the soul goes to be with God. Then on the Last Day the dead in Christ rise first and then those living in Christ. They are given new physical bodies in that they are either purified old bodies or totally new flesh. This is becuase their old flesh is dead, putrified, turned to dust, etc. Those that are children of the devil die and go to a place of silence where they are likely unaware of anything until the last day when they to are raised, judged, and found guilty.

There is a reckoning for the saved, but they have been pardoned from Judgment day.

No one is exempt from Judgment, even the saved. All who have ever sinned will be judged. Unless you believe that saved people have never sinned, then they can not be exempt from Judgment day. They may be pardoned during Judgment, but they are not exempt from Judgment. They're just essentially termed innocent.
The blood of the Lamb is sufficient for salvation. If one is a true child of God then there has already been one that has stood for him as the Scape Goat. Moses, Noah, Job were all Perfect in God's eyes. God tells us that.
Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Psa 101:6 Mine eyes [shall be] upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.
How could this be that they are perfect? Because God had forgiven them and to forgive means to forget. He forgot their sins and they were perfect in His eyes. God does not send his Children to the judgement of the Last Day. If anything, the saints will be judging with Christ. You are confusing the fact that even for His Children there is still a reckoning of every evil: word they have mumbled, thought they have had, secrets they hold, etc.

Else double jepardy. Unsaved go to a place of silence and wait until Judgement day.

I don't know about the silence, but they do go to 'prison' where those who have never heard the gospel have the opportunity. This must be such that all may be judged the same. 1 Peter 4:6.
Unfortunatly there comes a time when there is no salvation offered. Per the rich man in hell. When the living water is turned off, there is no more opportunity for salvation. Not even a drop. The living water is turned off Before Christ comes to judge.

On Judgment day they will be judged, found lacking, and cast into hell. Hell right now is not a litteral place.

On this we agree, though I doubt our ideas of hell are the same.

On Judgment day hell will become a very real place. And God will not be there holding back anyones sin as He does now. Thus Nashing of Teeth and smoke and everything bad for eternity.

What do you mean by holding back anyones sin?
Man is evil, sin filled, and fallen. All of us. He softened Pharoes heart and hardened it as He saw fit. God hold back much sin else this world would be destroyed. Satan is the prince of this earth and give much control. But not total. He does nothing with out Gods permission. God protected Job. He held back sin/evil from him. He prevented Adam and Eve from eating from the Tree of Life becuase they surely would have.

Greetings,

Some of the above needs clarifying or correction.

Clarified. No correction needed.

Peace and Blessings

 

[3NF]

Another interesting thing mentioned in Rael's book - that is about Satan and who he really is

Spoiler. Satan is an Eloha that was a part of a group that condemned the creation of intelligent beings on this planet, in fear that they would become a possible threat. He felt that nothing good could possibly become of mankind. Lucifer was a different Eloha - read the book!

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: 3NF
1. Elohim means in ancient Hebrew ?those that came from the sky?.

BS. I speak fluent Hebrew. Elohim is a name for God, the name used when he's sitting in judgment.

Do you speak Ancient Hebrew? I think there is debate over how it was used back then and I'm not sure if anyone really knows. Overtime, meanings change, just as the information in the Bible has changed via translations. Actually, I've always wondered what version of the Bible is best to read? King James, Darby, etc? I have no idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

Gamingphreek - read the book Apocalypse doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocolypse

As for your other questions, read the book I'm not here to convince you or suggest that you leave your faith. I'm just proposing an alternative opinion. As I said before, I didn't grow up in a religious environment and so I stand here with two books, Rael's book in one hand, and the Bible in the other. How can anyone say that one is more correct than the other?

We are able to prove that book wrong. Please answer this question. In ancient times, they didn't have the technology to make toothbrush or perform operations. HOWEVER you are claiming that they DID extremely complex operations on one another and flipped a switch enabling them to live long. How is that possible? Also How is it possible that throughout our analysis of the human body, we have never ever found the said switch?

Finally, we can also prove it wrong, because, as cells divide, I believe the Mitochondria become more and more fatigued each time. So they would have to operate on each individual cell, in ancient times, and reconstruct the mitochondria- Something we are still not able to do today.

How are you able to prove that book wrong any more than you can prove your interpretatoin of the Bible is correct? How is it possible we haven't found the switch? Because science hasn't found everything yet!! In Rael's book, he states that the Elohim are 25,000 years ahead of us in technology. In the beginning, the Elohim resided with humans on the earth. Read the book. Read the Tower of Bable part - it was a rocket!!

The tower was a rocket? Are you listening to these words? They couldn't construct cars, but Rockets...no problem. I can prove enough of the Bible to argue with people that it isn't a blind faith.

Additionally, that cult was founded by ONE person. Who is to say that person is completely stable. He is preaching that aliens engineered God, or Elohim as you say, and then God relayed their message. How were they created? If they aren't supernatural SOMETHING had to create them. The Bible was written by hundreds of people. All of which have coinciding stories. There is virtually no chance that thousands upon thousands of people had been tricked.

Christianity started with one person - was he stable? Yes, he was But according to Rael's book and the Elohim, humanity made the mistake of worshipping the MAN and not the message from that time forward. There is a section on Christ in the book. Read it - it's quite interesting. Jesus and Rael have the same father

Wrong. Christianity was not founded by one people as I had previously stated.

Furthermore, you are now claiming that Aliens are real. Is there any evidence? Faith is all well and good, but when a single human creates it, it could be argued to be blind faith.

I can't prove that aliens exist, anymore than you can prove God exists to me. However, there have been many UFO sightings in history. How many God sightings have their been? So I guess at this point, it would have to be blind faith on my part, but what Rael teaches makes so much more sense.


There have been UFO sightings? Without quoting the tabloids such as the National Enquirer I want proof. Also, you would trust the teachings of one man (Who obviously (I apologize in advance) has a screw loose in his head) over the teachings of an enormous group of people. Also how do you explain the fact that we have proved that there was indeed a Jesus. Coincidence that the Bible is right? I think not.



At this point, I'd have to go with my interaction between these two sets of people. My experience with other Raelians has been nothing but love and fraternity.

Which is what every religion preaches; however, we are all human

They have a simple motto - respect yourself and others. People who don't judge based on color, race, gender, sexuality, etc.

Again, the same thing that everyone preaches; however we are all human

On the other hand, my experience with Christians & Catholics has been very unappealing. Here already Christians are showing animosity towards me,

Can you honestly blame us? Try as we might to remain completely respectful, you are telling us that Aliens bioengineered us, that God isn't real, that we can survive without money (Already been proven false- Socialism anyone?) etc... I have really honestly tried to keep a respectful tone, but as I said earlier, your point is SO EXTREME, that it is hard to remain as thus.

I don't deny that it's extreme. I guess it takes a certain type of person to understand I like extreme And I'd like to think that we, humanity, is capable of creating a "heaven" of their own here on earth! It can be possible if people raise their level of conciousness!

We cannot create a heaven on earth! It is physically impossible. Everyone has different views, there will always be violence, there will always be suffering, there will always be natural disasters!!!!

Christians who think homosexuality is crime and is immoral, etc. Their values are so deeply rooted in the past.

What does the past have anything to do with this? The Bible merely defines marriage as between a man and a woman. As I said earlier, it is immoral, but no more immoral than me lying or thinking lustfully. It is humans who place the weight on the sin, NOT God. God doesn't even keep track of sin!

If you think being homesexual or bisexual is immoral, then you must also think being black, asian, or white is also immoral. It's genetic - there is no difference. Your saying that what the gay person feels is wrong. That's ridiculous. What you're saying should be considered a crime against humanity!!

Don't put words in my mouth. There is no recessive gene or dominant gene for gayness. If two Gay people were to overcome the impossible and have a baby, their baby would not inherit the gayness.

Homosexuality in itself is wrong, but if you will READ THIS I say that it is no more wrong than me lying or feeling lustful towards a girl. A crime against humanity?? Are you seriously reading these words. Im sorry, but I can't contain myself any longer- How old are you, 14-15?

If I were to meet a Christian in person, I would have nothing but respect for that person. On the other, the Christian or Catholic would probably want to burn me.

Why would they want to burn you. I am really interested in what people you have talked to that claim to be Christians. You seem to have a very skewed version of what Christians believe, through no fault of your own. I would be more than happy to attempt to answer any questions you have and attempt to lead in God's image where others have not been able to

I don't know what Christians believe. I'm just saying what my experience being around such people is. I said "burn me" because according to your beliefs, what I'm saying is considered blasphemy or some other nonsense. And when I do talk to such people about my point of view, they immediately become hostile - fear of being wrong? Raelians don't act in such a manner. We feel that everyone should be exposed to all religions and make their own decision as an adult. Any one religion should not be forced on any child because Mommy & Daddy think it's correct

Blasphemy is actively denouncing God. Furthermore, it is not for us to judge. In fact we are not supposed to judge people- that is for God, and for God alone. Any feeling of hostility you encounter is not unique to Christians. Have you honestly read your views?? Any sane human being would act with the same incredulity.

You are now saying that Raelians are perfect? That you guys have no bias, do not judge people, and are never hostile. Sorry, but that is absolutely impossible.

As for the Mommy and Daddy comment, they don't force religion on anyone. After I was confirmed (9th grade and up) I had the choice of doing whatever I want. I'm in College now, if I felt like it and truly believed it I could switch to any other religion. Mommy and Daddy didn't force me into anything, I chose the religion that I have today.

It's a no brainer what side I want to be on

 

[sapiens74]

We debate that issue a lot at my church.

I honestly believe God will judge on what is known, So the person who knows nothing of Christ will be judge on whatever he or she does know.

That doesn't bode well for those who know much as God will expect much

My biggest issues with fellow Christians is we get bent out of shape over hot button issues like Gay Marriage and aren't helping the widows, the sick and the poor.

We dropped the ball somewhere

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

On Judgment day they will be judged, found lacking, and cast into hell. Hell right now is not a litteral place.

I certainly hope not. Who told you that? You might want to look into reading Revelations where Paul speaks of "Judgement Day".

See my response previous to this one.

Furthermore, if we ask for forgiveness, and mean it with all of our heart, and with all of our soul, then we can walk with God and enjoy his gift of eternal life. Nothing can take that away from us. All we need to do is ask...

That is alot of me statements. When does God come into this? How do you explaine the Sheep in Wolves clothing or the Wheat and the Tares if all one must do is repent? Fact is that it is God that draws us. A dead thing can not choose life. Period.

Else double jepardy. Unsaved go to a place of silence and wait until Judgement day.

Jesus has already died to save us. There is no waiting. As I said earlier, all anyone has to do is ask for forgiveness from any sins. There is, and never was, any evidence of this "purgatory" or limbo type state.

See my prevous post that answers this with scripture.

Kind of confusing. When people die they are either saved or not saved.

Jesus died to save us. Everyone is saved. It is up to us whether to accept that gift.

Everyone is saved, but some still go to Hell and all that Hell implies? Again, the Blood is not strong enough or sufficient. Sounds like Man saves himself with his own choice.

They do not go to heaven period. If not saved they go to Hell and there is no 2nd chance there.

I suggest you read the story of the resurrection again. I would also advise that you read the most quotable verse in the bible John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, the he gave his only son, for that those who believe in him, may not perish, but have eternal life". As I keep stating, all one needs to do is ask for forgiveness and mean it (God knows whether you mean it or not).
If one wants to put weight to a verse, then those where God repeats Himself 2, 3, 4, or even 5 times are those weighty verses. But we do not stand on one verse alone. We must take all scripture that touches on a topic and harmonize them together. Until all scripture is harmonized there is no truth. Your position leaves out much scripture.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
It is not just a matter of Choice. That is a very small part of the whole. Eze 21:5 That all flesh may know that I the LORD have drawn forth my sword out of his sheath: it shall not return any more. Drawn, that is what we are. The object that is drawn has no choice but to go. If it does not go, it was not Drawn.
Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [saying], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Before one can choose he is Drawn to God. God works in him to make him one of His. You can not Choose God until God has chosen, drawn, and done the work in you. A dead thing can Not choose life.



Not to crash your beliefs, but I am very curious as to why you are spreading this. Are you Jewish and do not believe that Jesus was the messiah or what? Any Christian will tell you exactly what I have told just now.

-Kevin

I hope I have shown you why I am spreading this. I could ask you the same. You do not beleive that Jesus' sacrifice was enough to save someone. You do not beleive Jesus was the Christ? Too many christians will tell me what you have told me. That is milk. Ment not to hurt the pride or ego of another, thinking that the truth will not set them free. That the truth will instead harden their hearts and scare them off because meat is too much to accept.

Man will talk about his depravity, but he does not like to fully face it and just how dead he is. Milk says it softly with out offending. But sooner or later one must move on to the meat of the gospel. That is where you truely learn how little you know, control, are empowered, etc. until you are born again. God's blessings are for the Born again, not for the almost there or less. A strong Christian is not affraid to face difficult scripture. A strong Christian fears God and trembles before Him. Those that eat soft food would rather bring Him down to thier level, humanize Him, de-elevate him, etc. That is a dead end road.

Peace and Blessings

 

[imported_Lothar]

As a christian, I fully agree with your entire post.
Only difference is I don't speak in tongues. I've never been able to, and I don't understand what my pastors are saying when they speak in it.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: 3NF
Another interesting thing mentioned in Rael's book - that is about Satan and who he really is

Spoiler. Satan is an Eloha that was a part of a group that condemned the creation of intelligent beings on this planet, in fear that they would become a possible threat. He felt that nothing good could possibly become of mankind. Lucifer was a different Eloha - read the book!

Greetings,

Ahhhh, so the aliens and all thier wisdom, technology, etc. still can not agree on something? They could at least disagree and still commit as we did at my last job.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: Lothar
As a christian, I fully agree with your entire post.
Only difference is I don't speak in tongues. I've never been able to, and I don't understand what my pastors are saying when they speak in it.

Greetings,

That is sad. If the pastor is speaking in tongues everyone is to know what was said. There are to be no more speaking in tongues after the first one in any setting if there is no one there witht the gift of dicernment/interpretation. There are rules for the church and how tongues are to be used and not used.

See 1st Cor 14

Peace and blessings

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Macattak1
Incorrect. If you had said there is no second chance, fine. But you said no second chance in heaven. That implies one gets to heaven, though there is no second chance. You may know what your talking about, I may, but others may not. Ensuring that others that may still be drinking milk understand or that none believers are not led astry is what I am after. If you truely stood for what you say you do your attitude would have softened by now.

I have said multiple times already that there is not a second chance. What it implies is that their first chance was on Earth and they don't get a second chance in Heaven. They only get one chance, whether here or in Heaven. I believe you feel the same why, so I'm wondering what you're arguing about.

(As a note, I use Heaven because I don't think people would understand if I said spirit prison. If you'd like to replace Heaven with spirit prison, temporary place before Judgment day, whatever, feel free)

As for my attitude, I don't profess to be a perfect person. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, my attitude has no bearing on the truthfulness of my comments. I try my best to treat people with the same respect they treat me. If that's not good enough for you, perhaps you should look into how well you're living your religion.

That implies that God wanted Adam and Eve to sin and He let them though He could stop it since He set up the setting for A&E. God made man for good and when He was done making man he saw that it was indeed good. Everything He saw as He looked back when all was done was very good. The Word was not written before man. It was delivered because of mans failing along the way. God knowing what will happen is not the same as what God intended. Clearly He intended one thing, but man, in his true free will as Adam and Eve had threw it away. Planed and accounted for does not negate God's intentions either. We were already like God, made in His image, with a soul. That was intended. Then sin came. Not intended. If you think and say that God intended evil upon man you are much further from the truth than I previously thought.

Trust me, if you knowledge is 'truth', I am very far from it and happy to be there.

Adam and Eve prior to the fall did not know good from evil. After the fall is when they were described as becoming like God, knowing good from evil. You do the very simple math. We can not know the difference between good and evil without sin. It simply can't happen. And if we didn't know the difference, we could be like God.

As for the Word, no, it was no written before the fall, but it did exist before the fall. So that argument is void.

Is this going to contradict your first reply to me? No second chance. Because there truly is no one that never had the opportunity As a True Child of God has the Word or Law of God written upon his heart. Maybe that is not enough for you. But apparently it is enough for God. And just were would your 2nd opportunity come in if they missed your first opportunity while they were alive?

There is no contradiction at all. As I have stated very many times, the only things ensured is that everyone will have an opportunity to hear the gospel. Second chances are possible, but not guaranteed. Plenty of people on this earth now have had second, third, fourth, etc.., chances to accept the gospel.

As for the rest of you comment, I'll assume at this time you realize I never stated people would have a second chance, but will assume that what you meant is that people who never had a chance will have one. If you want to know where that will happen, it's post-death, pre-Judgment day. So that would mean it started after the death of Adam and will continue until the final Judgment day.

Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

So what? All that says is that even though Paul may not still be on the Earth, he will always rejoice in the order and steadfastness of the saints in that area. And that has what bearing on your comment?

Psa 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, [and] let them be silent in the grave.
Psa 28:1 [[[A Psalm] of David.]] Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, [if] thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
1Sa 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

Yes indeed. And as Ps. 28:1 says, that's after they go down into the pit, which is after Judgment day. And again, none of that has anything to do with the resurrection.

A child of God dies and the soul goes to be with God. Then on the Last Day the dead in Christ rise first and then those living in Christ. They are given new physical bodies in that they are either purified old bodies or totally new flesh. This is becuase their old flesh is dead, putrified, turned to dust, etc. Those that are children of the devil die and go to a place of silence where they are likely unaware of anything until the last day when they to are raised, judged, and found guilty.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

All shall be resurrected, the just and the unjust. Just as I said.

The blood of the Lamb is sufficient for salvation. If one is a true child of God then there has already been one that has stood for him as the Scape Goat. Moses, Noah, Job were all Perfect in God's eyes. God tells us that.
Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Psa 101:6 Mine eyes [shall be] upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.
How could this be that they are perfect? Because God had forgiven them and to forgive means to forget. He forgot their sins and they were perfect in His eyes. God does not send his Children to the judgement of the Last Day. If anything, the saints will be judging with Christ. You are confusing the fact that even for His Children there is still a reckoning of every evil: word they have mumbled, thought they have had, secrets they hold, etc.

Eccl. 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Every being, wicked or righteous, will be judged. Those that have accepted the Gospel, followed its teachings, received the necessary ordinances, and done all that the Lord has asked may be forgiven of their sins at this day of Judgment due to the atonement of Christ. It DOES NOT in anyway exempt them from Judgment however.

Unfortunatly there comes a time when there is no salvation offered. Per the rich man in hell. When the living water is turned off, there is no more opportunity for salvation. Not even a drop. The living water is turned off Before Christ comes to judge.

Yes, but that time is not immediately after death. It is after the end of this world and prior to the day of Judgment. At that time, you are correct.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Lothar
As a christian, I fully agree with your entire post.
Only difference is I don't speak in tongues. I've never been able to, and I don't understand what my pastors are saying when they speak in it.

I'm very interested in the 'speaking in tongues' events. Tell me, does someone interpret these events? Because I can tell you right now, if no one interprets what they say, I don't think they're not getting it from God. It just doesn't make sense. What is the purpose of it? There is no reason why God would cause it to happen if he's not going to provide an interpreter.

I'm really curious about this.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Greetings,

Ahhhh, so the aliens and all thier wisdom, technology, etc. still can not agree on something? They could at least disagree and still commit as we did at my last job.

Peace and Blessings

I have no idea what you're saying

Peace & Love

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Greetings,

Ahhhh, so the aliens and all thier wisdom, technology, etc. still can not agree on something? They could at least disagree and still commit as we did at my last job.

Peace and Blessings

I have no idea what you're saying

Peace & Love

Greetings,

Just the funny part about Satan, Stan, eloha or what ever he is not agreeing with the rest of the aliens about what man is good for. I just find that very funny! Does that make more sense? Sorry, could have been more clear.

Peace and Blessings

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: 3NF
I feel it is my responsibility to spread this message,

http://www.rael.org

I have read 70 pages of that book so far, and so far it is....utter BS. L Ron Hubbard could have, and has written more convincing fiction than this. It's bad, BAD science fiction and nothing more.

I do intend to read the whole thing though and I'll get back to you with my final review.


P.S. Atomic disintegrators?? :laugh:

 

[Yoshi911]

I Don't know if you'll ever get to read this comment, it's allot of work to keep up on all these posts, But... here ya go.

QUOTE: I wish I could apologize to everyone who has ever been hounded by an evangelist, and I also wish I could explain to most of the people who have that the majority of those evangelists are doing that because they really do want the best for the people they talk to and they earnestly believe in what they say. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise.


Although I understand the desire to apologize, because it is often embarrassing and offending to be on the receiving end... I think that if you truly believed in what you were saying, that without Christ a person will burn in hell forever, that you could live with a little offences take that chance of giving them a message that will change their life


Although I am all for showing Christ's love (which there is an eternity of), the doctrine that all men have sinned and cannot of their own strength achive perfection is offencive to 99% of the population in the world. (never met the other 1%, but some say they exist)

 

[Luthien]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Consider: every devout Muslim has the same reasons for being a Muslim that you now have for being a Christian. And yet, you know exactly what it is like not to find these reasons compelling. On virtually every page, the Qur'an declares that it is the perfect word of the Creator of the universe. Muslims believe this as fully as you believe the Bible's account of itself. There is a vast literature describing the life of Muhammad that, from the Muslim point of view, proves his unique status as the Prophet of God. While Muhammad did not claim to be divine, he claimed to offer the most perfect revelation of God's will. He also assured his followers that Jesus was not divine (Qur'an 5:71-75; 19:30-38) and that anyone who believed otherwise would spend eternity in hell. Muslims are convinced that Muhammad's pronouncements on these subjects, as on all others, are infallible.
Why don't you find these claims convincing? Why don't you lose any sleep over whether or not you should convert to Islam? Please take a moment to reflect on this. You know exactly what it is like to be an atheist with respect to Islam. Isn't it obvious that Muslims are not being honest in their evaluation of the evidence? Isn't it obvious that anyone who thinks that the Qur'an is the perfect word of the Creator of the universe has not read the book very critically? Isn't it obvious that Muslims have developed a mode of discourse that seeks to preserve dogma, generation after generation, rather than question it? Yes, these things are obvious. Understand that the way you view Islam is precisely the way every Muslim views Christianity. And it is the way I view all religions.

Muslims follow a book whose prophet is an illiterate womanizing man of questionable morals, and though claims Jesus was not God, also claims Jesus was a prophet. Sooo... They believe Jesus was wrong about His claims to Godship but also a servant of God?

Christians believe Jesus was who He said He was, backed up by the support of dozens of precisely fulfilled prophecies well established to predate Him by 6-12 centuries, and four independently written Gospels. In all this time, no one has ever questioned His morality - perhaps His sanity if they found His claims too incredible.

The quran is rife with references all over about subjugating women and that we should kill the infidels and become martyrs, but it also says Christians are brothers and "of the book"... The Bible contains consistent references to the attributes of God, showing in general more wrath in the OT, and more mercy in the NT, but with prophecies and historical references to each other tie it all together.

From a worldly perspective, faith is closely tied in to heritage. This is very true today of Jews, Muslims, and we all know Christians have committed lots of "ethnic clensing" in the name of god. But there is no rationale in the Bible for this. Paul even said that Gentiles (non-Jews) are the "new" Isreal, meaning that the Lord will "graft" Gentile believers into the faith as easily as the Jews. The Jews may not all realize that they are chosen not due to an inherent superiority, but for God's glory - to set the example for other nations. To put His longsuffering and wrath on display over and over again as an example to us.

Christians regularly assert that the Bible predicts future historical events. For instance, Deuteronomy 28:64 says, "The Lord will scatter you among the nations from one end of the earth to the other." Jesus says, in Luke 19:43-44, "The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you." We are meant to believe that these utterances predict the subsequent history of the Jews with such uncanny specificity so as to admit of only a supernatural explanation. It is on the basis of such reasoning that 44 percent of the American population now believes that Jesus will return to earth to judge the living and the dead sometime in the next fifty years.
But just imagine how breathtakingly specific a work of prophecy could be if it were actually the product of omniscience. If the Bible were such a book, it would make specific, falsifiable predictions about human events. You would expect it to contain a passage like, "In the latter half of the twentieth century, humankind will develop a globally linked system of computers-the principles of which I set forth in Leviticus-and this system shall be called the Internet." The Bible contains nothing remotely like this. In fact, it does not contain a single sentence that could not have been written by a man or woman living in the first century.
Take a moment to imagine how good a book could be if it were written by the Creator of the universe. Such a book could contain a chapter on mathematics that, after two thousand years of continuous use, would still be the richest source of mathematical insight the earth has ever seen. Instead, the Bible contains some very obvious mathematical errors. In two places, for instance, the Good Book gives the ratio of a circumference of a circle to its diameter as simply 3 (1 Kings 7: 23-26 and 2 Chronicles 4: 2-5). We now refer to this constant relation with the Greek letter p. While the decimal expansion of p runs to infinity-3.1415926535 . . .-we can calculate it to any degree of accuracy we like. Centuries before the oldest books of the Bible were written, both the Egyptians and Babylonians approximated p to a few decimal places. And yet the Bible-whether inerrant or divinely inspired-offers us an approximation that is terrible even by the standards of the ancient world. Needless to say, many religious people have found ingenious ways of rationalizing this. And yet, these rationalizations cannot conceal the obvious deficiency of the Bible as a source of mathematical insight. It is absolutely true to say that, if Archimedes had written a chapter of the Bible, the text would bear much greater evidence of the author's "omniscience."

This is where the Bible's purposes run counter to the world's, and reading the Bible has a two fold effect. It serves to convict and edify believers and it also hardens non-believers. What would happen if I told you the day you will strike the lottery with numbers I give you, and the day you die, and you believed me?

Would you live your life the way you live it now? No. You would slack off and not worry till that day and then play the lottery. You would visit the physician every week for the last six months leading up to the day of your death, perhaps mentally counting down the years and months from the time I tell you.

Prophecy is for edifying. God reveals to us what we need to know to live our lives the right way. We should fear the Lord, and desire to serve Him for His glory, and our edification and purity, not out of dread and anticipation of His wrath.

You busmaster11 said: "Muslims follow a book whose prophet is an illiterate womanizing man of questionable morals, and though claims Jesus was not God, also claims Jesus was a prophet. Sooo... They believe Jesus was wrong about His claims to Godship but also a servant of God?"

Yes, we all know christians just love to ridicule other religious beliefs while ignoring their own religions undeniable ridiculousness.
Jesus is imaginary LINK

You busmaster11 said: "Christians believe Jesus was who He said He was, backed up by the support of dozens of precisely fulfilled prophecies well established to predate Him by 6-12 centuries, and four independently written Gospels. In all this time, no one has ever questioned His morality - perhaps His sanity if they found His claims too incredible."

Backed up by dozens of "precisely" fulfilled prophecies, yeah right. Again ridiculous. No one has ever questioned his morality... you think that, lol. You should reprhase that to say no believers and it still would be unlikely.

You busmaster11 said: "This is where the Bible's purposes run counter to the world's, and reading the Bible has a two fold effect. It serves to convict and edify believers and it also hardens non-believers. What would happen if I told you the day you will strike the lottery with numbers I give you, and the day you die, and you believed me?"

LOL, you've been brainwashed. That is the same ply used by horoscopes, fortune cookies, cults, fortune tellers and every other religion. As the fundamentalists say the bible is all true or none of it; you either take it literally or not.. Those that take it literally are myopic narrow minded fools but at least they are united. Those that are anti literals are desperate faith seekers believing a myriad of varying ideas, morals and mores divined from personal interpretations of the bible, differing from one individual to the next as each and every one of them changes the divine word of god to fit their own belief system/world view. The anti literals are scorned and even damned by the literals and vice versa. The very same scam you use to rationalize the bible is the same scam that divides and conquers you.

 

[Luthien]

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Luthien
Southpark points out how ridiculous Mormonism is: Find and watch, Episode: Season 7: All About Mormons. I wish I could find a link to the entire episode but so far no luck. Here is a small part of it at the end:
LINK


What mormons believe cartoon:
LINK

Now finally if your a christian and you believe mormonism is obviously ridiculous please take the time to read the following completely by Sam Harris:

Since the publication of my first book, The End of Faith, I have received thousands of letters and e-mails from religious believers insisting that I am wrong not to believe in God. Invariably, the most unpleasant of these communications have come from Christians. This is ironic, as Christians generally believe that no faith imparts the virtues of love and forgiveness more effectively than their own. Please accept this for what it is: the testimony of a man who is in a position to observe how people behave when their faith is challenged. Many who claim to have been transformed by Christ's love are deeply, even murderously, intolerant of criticism. While you may ascribe this to human nature, it is clear that the hatred these people feel comes directly from the Bible. How do I know this? Because the most deranged of my correspondents always cite chapter and verse.

Greetings,

Um, I kind of stopped there. He is attacking some unknown people that he interacts with because they are attacking. As soon as he starts calling names he looses credibility. And if he thinks this is how Christians are, how does he view mohammadans that kill 100's of people every day in our time?

Sam Harris? Don't know him and he does not speak for me and any other number of people that are Christians and could care little or not at all about someone like him or another attacking, detracting, or speaking of Christianity in a bad lite or critically, etc.

Peace and Blessings

Wow, you proove my point Christian hypocrits like yourself are intolerant of criticism. You need to read his message more than most.

P.S

Knock off the "Greetings" tripe we all know it is disingenuous.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Lothar
As a christian, I fully agree with your entire post.
Only difference is I don't speak in tongues. I've never been able to, and I don't understand what my pastors are saying when they speak in it.

I'm very interested in the 'speaking in tongues' events. Tell me, does someone interpret these events? Because I can tell you right now, if no one interprets what they say, I don't think they're not getting it from God. It just doesn't make sense. What is the purpose of it? There is no reason why God would cause it to happen if he's not going to provide an interpreter.

I'm really curious about this.

A lot of people there understand it.
I'm saying that I don't understand it.....YET.

Considering that speaking in tongues is usually less than 0.1% of the entire service, I can still come and get the remaining 99.9% and I'll continue to do so.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: 3NF
I feel it is my responsibility to spread this message,

http://www.rael.org

I have read 70 pages of that book so far, and so far it is....utter BS. L Ron Hubbard could have, and has written more convincing fiction than this. It's bad, BAD science fiction and nothing more.

I do intend to read the whole thing though and I'll get back to you with my final review.


P.S. Atomic disintegrators?? :laugh:

The book is awesome! I love it!

 

[Luthien]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Lothar
As a christian, I fully agree with your entire post.
Only difference is I don't speak in tongues. I've never been able to, and I don't understand what my pastors are saying when they speak in it.

I'm very interested in the 'speaking in tongues' events. Tell me, does someone interpret these events? Because I can tell you right now, if no one interprets what they say, I don't think they're not getting it from God. It just doesn't make sense. What is the purpose of it? There is no reason why God would cause it to happen if he's not going to provide an interpreter.

I'm really curious about this.

A lot of people there understand it.
I'm saying that I don't understand it.....YET.

Considering that speaking in tongues is usually less than 0.1% of the entire service, I can still come and get the remaining 99.9% and I'll continue to do so.

Okay so if a lot of people there understand it lets hear the translation of all the speakers in tongues along with your own. I would sure hope that your church is recording the speaking in tongues events and the "lot of people there that understand it" are decipering it for the rest of the world so that we too can share in gods word directly from him devinely inspired to man.

LOL

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Lothar
As a christian, I fully agree with your entire post.
Only difference is I don't speak in tongues. I've never been able to, and I don't understand what my pastors are saying when they speak in it.

I'm very interested in the 'speaking in tongues' events. Tell me, does someone interpret these events? Because I can tell you right now, if no one interprets what they say, I don't think they're not getting it from God. It just doesn't make sense. What is the purpose of it? There is no reason why God would cause it to happen if he's not going to provide an interpreter.

I'm really curious about this.

A lot of people there understand it.
I'm saying that I don't understand it.....YET.

Considering that speaking in tongues is usually less than 0.1% of the entire service, I can still come and get the remaining 99.9% and I'll continue to do so.

Yeah, sorry, I understood that you didn't understand it completely. There were a few other people who commented on such an experience as well. Guess I should have quoted them to so as not to appear to single out you. My bad.

I seen people who have the gift of tongues, but it always been used in learning and speaking foreign languages. I even had an experience once with the interpretation of tongues, but that again was to be able to understand something someone said in another language. So I'm just curious what other people's experiences with this have been.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Yoshi911
I Don't know if you'll ever get to read this comment, it's allot of work to keep up on all these posts, But... here ya go.

QUOTE: I wish I could apologize to everyone who has ever been hounded by an evangelist, and I also wish I could explain to most of the people who have that the majority of those evangelists are doing that because they really do want the best for the people they talk to and they earnestly believe in what they say. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise.


Although I understand the desire to apologize, because it is often embarrassing and offending to be on the receiving end... I think that if you truly believed in what you were saying, that without Christ a person will burn in hell forever, that you could live with a little offences take that chance of giving them a message that will change their life


Although I am all for showing Christ's love (which there is an eternity of), the doctrine that all men have sinned and cannot of their own strength achive perfection is offencive to 99% of the population in the world. (never met the other 1%, but some say they exist)

I want to apologize not for the sharing of the message but for the way it is shared so often. People that are doing the sharing can be very aggressive, persistent and rude, rather than doing it in a gracious way and respecting the right of others to say, "not interested".

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Yoshi911
Although I am all for showing Christ's love (which there is an eternity of), the doctrine that all men have sinned and cannot of their own strength achieve perfection is offensive to 99% of the population in the world. (never met the other 1%, but some say they exist)

I honestly cannot believe how people can be so prideful to believe that they can achieve perfection on their own. I've known for a long time now that I have many faults that I need to work on. It's hubris to believe that one can redeem one's self through anything one does. To others around me who did not know me well, I was the "perfect" student throughout school. I aced everything, had a perfect transcript and test scores, was involved in lots of extracurriculars, etc. I was accepted at several prestigious universities.

But those who knew me well knew that despite all this I didn't know what to do with my life, and I never really worked hard at anything academic (I scoffed at hard-working students and especially people who took SAT prep courses...) - I just took my God-given intelligence for granted in my foolish pride. I trusted too much in my own ability and was blinded by it.

Fast forward to now: I'm a sophomore (undergrad) at a prestigious university, with mediocre grades and a much humbler attitude. When you're surrounded by people who are on-par with and harder-working than you, that's what happens. You could say that I'm still learning how to study, since I never learned how to study in high school.

Moral of the story? No one's perfect, and seeking perfection is pointless. I found it far from fulfilling being "perfect" for my own sake - I don't look out for "#1" like so many others do, and selfishness is a repulsive concept to me. Until very recently, I had no clue what I was doing with my life. But I've since found a renewed focus and a renewed hope in the prospect of helping others. To that end, I am working towards the goal of being a competitive candidate for medical school admissions, with the goal of becoming a doctor. Now, it'll be a long and difficult road to take, but I feel it will be the most rewarding for me. I've got a long ways to go in being diligent and consistent in my studies, and I didn't start off the current semester on the best of notes, but the finish is what matters.

Am I perfect? No way. Am I wise? Surely not. But I do know one thing: I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me. So it's time to start working hard.

P.S. I'm surprised, but reflective writing like this definitely helps me in focusing on what's important. I should do this more often.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Lothar
As a christian, I fully agree with your entire post.
Only difference is I don't speak in tongues. I've never been able to, and I don't understand what my pastors are saying when they speak in it.

I'm very interested in the 'speaking in tongues' events. Tell me, does someone interpret these events? Because I can tell you right now, if no one interprets what they say, I don't think they're not getting it from God. It just doesn't make sense. What is the purpose of it? There is no reason why God would cause it to happen if he's not going to provide an interpreter.

I'm really curious about this.

A lot of people there understand it.
I'm saying that I don't understand it.....YET.

Considering that speaking in tongues is usually less than 0.1% of the entire service, I can still come and get the remaining 99.9% and I'll continue to do so.

Yeah, sorry, I understood that you didn't understand it completely. There were a few other people who commented on such an experience as well. Guess I should have quoted them to so as not to appear to single out you. My bad.

I seen people who have the gift of tongues, but it always been used in learning and speaking foreign languages. I even had an experience once with the interpretation of tongues, but that again was to be able to understand something someone said in another language. So I'm just curious what other people's experiences with this have been.

No offense taken.
There are sometimes I understand and sometimes I don't...
That's my experience, but then again I spend most times praying on my own for what I(or people I know) need and thanking for what I have than listening to someone elses prayer.

I don't know anyone who completely understands english(unless you're a nerd who has read the different dictionaries over and over again)
I speak english(official language), my native language, and spanish(foreign language of choice to meet highschool/college requirements).
However, I'm not going to claim that I understand what every word means in the respective languages, or in tongues.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Luthien
Southpark points out how ridiculous Mormonism is: Find and watch, Episode: Season 7: All About Mormons. I wish I could find a link to the entire episode but so far no luck. Here is a small part of it at the end:
LINK


What mormons believe cartoon:
LINK

Now finally if your a christian and you believe mormonism is obviously ridiculous please take the time to read the following completely by Sam Harris:

Since the publication of my first book, The End of Faith, I have received thousands of letters and e-mails from religious believers insisting that I am wrong not to believe in God. Invariably, the most unpleasant of these communications have come from Christians. This is ironic, as Christians generally believe that no faith imparts the virtues of love and forgiveness more effectively than their own. Please accept this for what it is: the testimony of a man who is in a position to observe how people behave when their faith is challenged. Many who claim to have been transformed by Christ's love are deeply, even murderously, intolerant of criticism. While you may ascribe this to human nature, it is clear that the hatred these people feel comes directly from the Bible. How do I know this? Because the most deranged of my correspondents always cite chapter and verse.

Greetings,

Um, I kind of stopped there. He is attacking some unknown people that he interacts with because they are attacking. As soon as he starts calling names he looses credibility. And if he thinks this is how Christians are, how does he view mohammadans that kill 100's of people every day in our time?

Sam Harris? Don't know him and he does not speak for me and any other number of people that are Christians and could care little or not at all about someone like him or another attacking, detracting, or speaking of Christianity in a bad lite or critically, etc.

Peace and Blessings

Wow, you proove my point Christian hypocrits like yourself are intolerant of criticism. You need to read his message more than most.

P.S

Knock off the "Greetings" tripe we all know it is disingenuous.

Greetings,

And I use that because it is simply polite. Kind of like hello. You can take it as you like, you are entitled to your own perception and opinion. Regardless, it is not disingenuous from me. Far from it.

Not sure of what hypocricy you are speaking to. Why would I read much of what someone has to say about how great Charles Manson is? Why would I continue reading about what some person wrote that is clearly extreamely exagerative and attacking? I would not read it or pay much attention to it if it was this Sam guy writing about Women, Blacks, Jews, Environmentalism, History, etc. as he does about Christians.

He starts out with a huge paint brush, attacking an entire group. If he knows anything about a true child of God he would not be equating murderous with them. I mean, how much more exagerative can one be about another group? Clearly there are many and any Christian that can be rude, arrogant, attacking, etc. I am not above that and I will applogieze for it with little to no issue when it happens. Christians are not perfect. His generalizations, as he immeadiatly goes into are simply false and he knows this. He says he is in a position. Well, he put me into one also. He wrote something, it starts out at ignorant speed and goes from there. I know this as he put me in the position of reader and critic of his book since I read some part of it.

If he wants to write about all the failings of 'Christianity' accross time. Feel free, go for it. 'Christianity' has sanctioned many evil things out of hate and ignorance. However, if one knows Christianity and what it stands for, even a little bit, one understands that those are mistakes/evil/sin, not sactioned by the gospel, and likely not performed by True Children of God. They may be a part of the group or aligned with it. But that does not make them a true part of it.

What is his message that I need to read? That people are stupid, sinful, evil, etc.? I know that already. I know that those things have no gender, ethnic, or religious boundries. He has a message, that is for sure. Within the first paragraph or two one can see it is very likely just and axe to grind and mud carefully aimed and slung.

Peace and Blessings.

 

[Macattak1]

Greetings,

And I did read more on Sam Harris.


Here is the Wiki on Sam. That the Humanists have problems with his writings should say much to athiests.
Likens religion to Mental Illness
Is somehow only able to look at the bad things done in the name of Christianity, as if he is not smart enough to know that Christ does not saction the Inquisition.
Clearly sees only Embrianic Stem Cell research as valuable Though only none embrianic stem cells have prooven to be of any value or created treatments while Embrianic stem cells treatments are 20+ years off at best.
Mysticism is Rational but Religion/Christianity is not.
Faith is the devels masterpiece

And in the quoted by Luth Sam cites a statistic with no reference.
Can not find a simple prophecy that has been fullfilled.
Instead he just quotes one he does not understand well or at all.
Then he thinks that if there were a god that he must write about math, science, cures, electricity, DNA, etc.

I am sorry Luth, but Sam is not a rational, balanced, objective writer at all.

"...Harris later described Flynn's review as "mixed, misleading, and ultimately exasperating"
"...Another review by David Boulton for New Humanist, also stopped short of a ringing endorsement, describing the book as containing "startling oversimplifications, exaggerations and elisions."

So there you go. When the Humanists think your way off base and you are someone that believes only in self and refuses a spiritual side you know you have problems.

Peace and Blessings