Hypothetical situation...

[ThisIsMatt]

A dialup ISP has a list of access numbers for a given area code. Within that list there are numbers corresponding to cities. You know cities X, Y, & Z are all local to you, so you dialup with those numbers. It turns out, however, that one of the numbers associated with city Y is incorrect, and actually is a number for city A, which is very much long distance. You end up with a large long distance bill because you used a number associated with city Y, but in fact that number was for city A. The ISP has a small disclaimer: Disclaimer: The display of a number does not mean that it is a flat-rate local call. That determination can only be made by your local telephone provider.

Whose fault is it? Should ISP user1 be responsible for the charges after using a falsified local number? Or is the ISP justified by saying user1 should known that the number was not local. (There happen to be over a half dozen prefixes in the area that are in fact local.)

 

[Electric Amish]

User is at fault for being stoopid.

amish

 

[Evadman]

IMHO the ISP is responsable since it was their incorrect info that made that happen. In all honesty, good luck proving it.

 

[Rainsford]

Since there was no option for both, I went with the user being at fault. The ISP should have done a better job with their quality control. But the user is the one who actually dialed the number. Blindly following directions is never a very good idea. Yes, the ISP could have provided better info, but it's the users fault they dialed the number without checking.

 

[911paramedic]

Pretty sure they have a disclaimer in the EULA that says you need to CHECK to see if the call is local or not.

 

[ATLien247]

Unless your modem's speaker is turned off, how can you NOT know that a long distance number was being dialed?

 

[bunker]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Pretty sure they have a disclaimer in the EULA that says you need to CHECK to see if the call is local or not.

Yep...every dial-up ISP I had ever used had that disclaimer. I didn't read it and got burned but was lucky to talk to a nice rep at the phone company who dropped the charges for me.

How the he|| is the isp going to know exactly which numbers are local for you and which aren't? It's up to the individual to ask the phone company.

 

[GroundZero]

would be willing to bet that in your user agreement it clearly states that the user is responisble for charges occured from long distance. usually also says in there somewhere to make sure you check the numbers ....

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Pretty sure they have a disclaimer in the EULA that says you need to CHECK to see if the call is local or not.

In fact, they do not. The "disclaimer" stated is the only one.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: GroundZero
would be willing to bet that in your user agreement it clearly states that the user is responisble for charges occured from long distance. usually also says in there somewhere to make sure you check the numbers ....

It does not.

 

[DeafeningSilence]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Since there was no option for both, I went with the user being at fault. The ISP should have done a better job with their quality control. But the user is the one who actually dialed the number. Blindly following directions is never a very good idea. Yes, the ISP could have provided better info, but it's the users fault they dialed the number without checking.

Yup.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: bunker

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Pretty sure they have a disclaimer in the EULA that says you need to CHECK to see if the call is local or not.

Yep...every dial-up ISP I had ever used had that disclaimer. I didn't read it and got burned but was lucky to talk to a nice rep at the phone company who dropped the charges for me.

How the he|| is the isp going to know exactly which numbers are local for you and which aren't? It's up to the individual to ask the phone company.

It's not a question of whether or not they knew it was local, it's that they stated a number corresponded to a specific city, when in fact it did not.

 

[bunker]

after using a falsified local number

What exactly is a falsified local number?? A number is either a local call or a toll call as determined by the phone company, not the ISP.

Case in point: Near my parents place if you call a number that happens to be located one half mile to the east, it's a long-distance call. He should be bitching at the phone company, not the ISP.

 

[pulse8]

If it also showed you the phone number, if you've lived there for any amount of time you should know what's a long distance number and what isn't.

If you don't know, then it's your fault, not theirs. They have no idea how the area codes work in your city/county when it comes to long distance phone calls. It's your responsibility to know that, not theirs.

 

[bunker]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: bunker

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Pretty sure they have a disclaimer in the EULA that says you need to CHECK to see if the call is local or not.

Yep...every dial-up ISP I had ever used had that disclaimer. I didn't read it and got burned but was lucky to talk to a nice rep at the phone company who dropped the charges for me.

How the he|| is the isp going to know exactly which numbers are local for you and which aren't? It's up to the individual to ask the phone company.

It's not a question of whether or not they knew it was local, it's that they stated a number corresponded to a specific city, when in fact it did not.

Check the phone company records and I'd be willing to bet they have it listed in the same city the ISP did.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: bunker

after using a falsified local number

What exactly is a falsified local number?? A number is either a local call or a toll call as determined by the phone company, not the ISP.

Case in point: Near my parents place if you call a number that happens to be located one half mile to the east, it's a long-distance call. He should be bitching at the phone company, not the ISP.

I know what cities around me are local calls, and which aren't. The ISP listed a city that is local to me, but put down a number that is for a city far beyond any local city.

Like: City Y, 555-555-5555

where City Y is local, but 555-555-5555 is NOT IN City Y, not even CLOSE

 

[GroundZero]

my setup shows me the number being dialed, and i would have noticed if it was dialing a 1 first anyway.
not to mention the fact that i would have had to enable the modem to call long distance, and have given it permissions for calling the area code involved...
if you were stupid enough to think that an area code that wasn't the same as yours was going to be local, then eat the bill.
maybe you will have learned from your mistake.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: bunker

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: bunker

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Pretty sure they have a disclaimer in the EULA that says you need to CHECK to see if the call is local or not.

Yep...every dial-up ISP I had ever used had that disclaimer. I didn't read it and got burned but was lucky to talk to a nice rep at the phone company who dropped the charges for me.

How the he|| is the isp going to know exactly which numbers are local for you and which aren't? It's up to the individual to ask the phone company.

It's not a question of whether or not they knew it was local, it's that they stated a number corresponded to a specific city, when in fact it did not.

Check the phone company records and I'd be willing to bet they have it listed in the same city the ISP did.

K, you want to bet the cost of the bill? You'd lose. The phone company has the correct city.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: pulse8
If it also showed you the phone number, if you've lived there for any amount of time you should know what's a long distance number and what isn't.

If you don't know, then it's your fault, not theirs. They have no idea how the area codes work in your city/county when it comes to long distance phone calls. It's your responsibility to know that, not theirs.

I've lived here all my life, but they've also added a lot of new local prefixes here in the last couple years.

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: bunker

after using a falsified local number

What exactly is a falsified local number?? A number is either a local call or a toll call as determined by the phone company, not the ISP.

Case in point: Near my parents place if you call a number that happens to be located one half mile to the east, it's a long-distance call. He should be bitching at the phone company, not the ISP.

I know what cities around me are local calls, and which aren't. The ISP listed a city that is local to me, but put down a number that is for a city far beyond any local city.

Like: City Y, 555-555-5555

where City Y is local, but 555-555-5555 is NOT IN City Y, not even CLOSE

So the fact that you know it's not a local call, you wouldn't choose that phone number to dial into their system. Anyone who does, doesn't know what's local to them and it's their fault for not knowing that.

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: pulse8
If it also showed you the phone number, if you've lived there for any amount of time you should know what's a long distance number and what isn't.

If you don't know, then it's your fault, not theirs. They have no idea how the area codes work in your city/county when it comes to long distance phone calls. It's your responsibility to know that, not theirs.

I've lived here all my life, but they've also added a lot of new local prefixes here in the last couple years.

And if you saw one of those prefixes, would you know it's local?

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: GroundZero
my setup shows me the number being dialed, and i would have noticed if it was dialing a 1 first anyway.
not to mention the fact that i would have had to enable the modem to call long distance, and have given it permissions for calling the area code involved...
if you were stupid enough to think that an area code that wasn't the same as yours was going to be local, then eat the bill.
maybe you will have learned from your mistake.

It's the same area code big boy.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: bunker

after using a falsified local number

What exactly is a falsified local number?? A number is either a local call or a toll call as determined by the phone company, not the ISP.

Case in point: Near my parents place if you call a number that happens to be located one half mile to the east, it's a long-distance call. He should be bitching at the phone company, not the ISP.

I know what cities around me are local calls, and which aren't. The ISP listed a city that is local to me, but put down a number that is for a city far beyond any local city.

Like: City Y, 555-555-5555

where City Y is local, but 555-555-5555 is NOT IN City Y, not even CLOSE

So the fact that you know it's not a local call, you wouldn't choose that phone number to dial into their system. Anyone who does, doesn't know what's local to them and it's their fault for not knowing that.

I know that City Y is local, so otherwise I wouldn't choose that city, obviously.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: pulse8
If it also showed you the phone number, if you've lived there for any amount of time you should know what's a long distance number and what isn't.

If you don't know, then it's your fault, not theirs. They have no idea how the area codes work in your city/county when it comes to long distance phone calls. It's your responsibility to know that, not theirs.

I've lived here all my life, but they've also added a lot of new local prefixes here in the last couple years.

And if you saw one of those prefixes, would you know it's local?

Most, not all. But if a business states that they're in a certain city, a city that I know is local, I tend to believe them. I guess I should't trust anyone.

 

[Zenmervolt]

How can you not know just by the number that it's long distance? You don't know which exchanges are local? I thought that this was basic stuff that everyone knew.

ZV

EDIT: Just because they say that they are local doesn't mean that the company to whom they outsourced the listing didn't screw it up with a typo. Chances are that it's not intentionally misleading you know.