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Hurricane Sandy = non event

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,795
10,091
136
Sandy packed more total energy than Hurricane Katrina at landfall

I never would have thought that.

Katrina’s IKE was more concentrated, Sandy’s IKE was more spread out. This metric - more than wind speed - encapsulates the respective storms’ horrific effects. Sandy may end up as the second most costly storm in U.S. history. Given its top ranking IKE and the area it impacted, that should come as no surprise.

Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale
is no longer sufficient for storm categorization. The spread of the wind field, and/or the barometric pressure need to be taken into account. Otherwise we will not provide adequate storm surge warnings for people.

If you see a Cat1... no big deal. #nonevent. When it reality it had a lot more potential than that.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,380
32,884
136
If we ever have an end of the year ATP&N awards ceremony one needs to be named the Moonbogg memorial fail thread of the year
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
If we ever have an end of the year ATP&N awards ceremony one needs to be named the Moonbogg memorial fail thread of the year

Seconded. This is his now absurd OP:

Title: Hurricane Sandy = non event

Post:

Epic hype. Thats all it is and people are catching on. Since Catrina, people play it so damn safe, that its nothing more than crying wolf to the extreme just so noone can say that they weren't warned. The reports on the storm will evaporate faster than the light showers that it produces.

Just unbelieveable.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,864
31,359
146
What are we going to do if this shit starts happening regularly.

Ask what Florida does? :\ Granted, these kind of storms are quite rare anywhere, but I wouldn't expect to see such wide-scale destruction in the northeast like this any time soon.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Sandy packed more total energy than Hurricane Katrina at landfall

I never would have thought that.


Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale
is no longer sufficient for storm categorization. The spread of the wind field, and/or the barometric pressure need to be taken into account. Otherwise we will not provide adequate storm surge warnings for people.

If you see a Cat1... no big deal. #nonevent. When it reality it had a lot more potential than that.

Sandy storm surge was around 15 feet compared to 30 feet for Katrina.

Sandy storm surge was closer to Cat 3 or 4, even though it was a Cat 1, and Katrina was closer to a high Cat 5 even though it was a 3 at landfall.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
More of the science behind the storm.

http://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/opinion/8243/hybridization-sandy

The hybridization of Sandy
How a superstorm came to be

Bob Henson | November 2, 2012 • Every so often, a quiet corner of research suddenly grabs the spotlight. Such was the case this week when a Category 1 Atlantic hurricane morphed into Superstorm Sandy, wreaking tens of billions of dollars in damage and taking scores of lives in the eastern United States.Sandy’s destiny as a hybrid storm was flagged to the public several days before landfall, when the irresistible name “Frankenstorm”—coined by a NOAA meteorologist—went viral. (Of course, in the original Mary Shelley novel, it was the scientist rather than the monster who was dubbed Frankenstein, as Bay Area meteorologist Jan Null pointed out to me.)

While there have been hybrid storms before, Superstorm Sandy was a creation distinct in meteorological annals, as it pulled together a variety of familiar ingredients in a unique way. Sandy could be the storm that launches a thousand dissertations—or at least a few—and some of its noteworthy aspects have implications for hurricane warning in general. Warning: there’s a bit of unavoidable weather geekery in the material below, although I’ll try to keep it as accessible as possible.
When a hurricane shapeshifts

Extratropical transition is the formal name for what happened in the 12 to 24 hours before Sandy crashed ashore near Atlantic City on Monday evening, 29 October. “Extratropical” means “outside the tropics,” so technically speaking, it would apply to any cyclone (low-pressure center) that’s located in the midlatitudes or polar regions. But there’s a more basic distinction used by meteorologists: whether a low is warm-core or cold-core.

A hallmark of tropical cyclones (known as hurricanes, typhoons, or cyclones in various parts of the world) is that their circulations revolve around a core of warm air. Hurricanes draw energy from oceanic heat and moisture, and they thrive when the surrounding air is uniformly warm and humid and upper-level winds steering the storm are relatively weak. In contrast, an extratropical low is typically positioned at or near the intersection of a cold front and warm front. Such a low is helped rather than hindered by temperature and moisture contrasts and the accompanying strong winds of the polar jet stream.

Here are three of the routes that warm- and cold-core systems can take as they evolve:
It’s not unusual at all for a tropical cyclone to shift from warm-core to cold-core. In an average year, one or more hurricanes will evolve into extratropical storms in a fairly straightforward manner as they move into the North Atlantic. As colder, drier air intrudes into the warm core, the storm typically loses symmetry and begins tilting toward the coldest upper-level air.

It’s also possible for an extratropical cyclone to develop what’s known as a warm seclusion. In this case, a pocket of warm, moist air is drawn into the cold-core circulation, then pinched off through a complicated set of dynamics involving air pulled down from the stratosphere. This is dubbed the Shapiro-Keyser process, after veteran researchers Mel Shapiro (now at NCAR) and Daniel Keyser (University of Albany, State University of New York). Some of the Atlantic’s most intense storms of any type have emerged from warm seclusions (see animation at right). These are most common in winter over the far North Atlantic, but rarely do they move onto the mid-Atlantic coast, especially in mid-autumn.

Once in a while, an extratropical cyclone will get a boost of energy by absorbing the remnants of a hurricane. Well east of New England, the iconic “perfect storm” of October 1991 was fueled by heat and moisture from the late Hurricane Grace. While it never moved ashore, this great storm still pushed destructive surf into much of the U.S. East Coast.


And then there’s Sandy . . .

Meteorologists are still parsing the maps, but it appears that Sandy may have incorporated elements from all three of the above processes. While Sandy was still a hurricane, the storm’s outer edges began to reveal some aspects of an extratropical cyclone, with an enormous zone of strong surface wind and “a great chimney of upper-level outflow,” as Shapiro puts it (see satellite image.) The storm’s warm core briefly intensified about a day before landfall (see diagram).

Then, a few hours before landfall, Sandy began a sharp curve toward the west, moving toward the heart of the approaching midlatitude trough of low pressure. In Shapiro’s view, this marked an apparent warm seclusion trying to take place on top of the storm’s fast-decaying warm core.

I asked Shapiro how often he’s seen a storm like Sandy. He replied, “Never.”

The one that may come closest in Shapiro’s view is the “Long Island Express” hurricane of 1938, which killed hundreds of New Englanders as it slammed ashore virtually without warning. “There was a dramatic upper trough coming in from Canada, just like there was with Sandy,” says Shapiro. The 1938 storm raced northwards at speeds of close to 70 mph, making it the fastest-moving hurricane on record, and hooked northwest after landfall. While not as much of a speed demon, Sandy did accelerate to a forward motion of nearly 30 mph as it curved west and approached New Jersey. Upper-air observations from the 1930s are sparse, however, so it might not be possible to pin down the commonalities between the two events. ..........................
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com

Making landfall is, more or less, luck (or rather, unluck.) E.g., if it wasn't for the system to the Northeast of Sandy blocking her, she would have turned out to sea, like the vast majority of storms following a similar path do at this time of year. There are a lot of hurricanes every year. The average person doesn't have a clue about most of them, because most don't make landfall. There were 19 named storms this year.

1951-60: 10,7,14,11,13,8,8,10,11, and 7 named storms.
1951-60: 8,6,6,8,11,4,3,7,7,4 hurricanes

Let's use the most recent 10 years:
2003-2012: 16,15,28,10,15,16,9,19,19,19 named storms
2003-2012: 7,9,15,5,6,8,3,12,7,10 hurricanes
So, 1951-60
99 named storms, 64 hurricanes (of which 34 were major hurricanes)
2003-12
166 named storms, 82 hurricanes (of which 37 were major hurricanes)


That's 28% more hurricanes in 10 years than the previous worse decade. The only thing that stands out for the 50's is that we were unlucky - a lot of the major storms made landfall.
 
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randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,449
0
0
So between the over 50 people dead from Haiti and the 80+ dead in the US, that's 130 deaths and close to $50 billion in damages. For anybody to say this is a non-event just shows how completely ignorant and stupid they are.

According to wikipedia there were 182 deaths with 110 from the USA.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Making landfall is, more or less, luck (or rather, unluck.) E.g., if it wasn't for the system to the Northeast of Sandy blocking her, she would have turned out to sea, like the vast majority of storms following a similar path do at this time of year. There are a lot of hurricanes every year. The average person doesn't have a clue about most of them, because most don't make landfall. There were 19 named storms this year.

1951-60: 10,7,14,11,13,8,8,10,11, and 7 named storms.
1951-60: 8,6,6,8,11,4,3,7,7,4 hurricanes

Let's use the most recent 10 years:
2003-2012: 16,15,28,10,15,16,9,19,19,19 named storms
2003-2012: 7,9,15,5,6,8,3,12,7,10 hurricanes
So, 1951-60
99 named storms, 64 hurricanes (of which 34 were major hurricanes)
2003-12
166 named storms, 82 hurricanes (of which 37 were major hurricanes)


That's 28% more hurricanes in 10 years than the previous worse decade. The only thing that stands out for the 50's is that we were unlucky - a lot of the major storms made landfall.

Very well covered by Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. in his climate blog. In case you want information from one of the top experts.

http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2012/11/mayor-bloombergs-deft-climate-politics.html

Whatever the motivations behind Mayor Michael Bloomberg's decision to cite Sandy and climate change as a reason for his endorsement of President Obama, it has the effect of relocating responsibility for Sandy's devastation from NYC City Hall to Washington, DC.

As New Yorkers (and others) affected by Sandy's wrath pick themselves back up and recover, attention will soon focus on the broader reasons for the disaster. While some will continue to link Sandy with energy policy decisions, important questions will have to be asked about why NYC was not better prepared, and what can be done in the months and years ahead to fix that, before the next storm barrels up the coast.

To that end, a few excerpts from the New York City Natural Hazard Mitigation Plan (April, 2009, here in PDF) will indicate that absolutely nothing about Sandy and its impacts should have been a surprise to anyone. It would be fair to ask NY politicians why the city was not better prepared for a disaster that it saw coming.

The report is clear on the general characteristics that make the region susceptible to large storm surges:

Coastal storms, including nor'easters, tropical storms, and hurricanes, can and do affect New York City. New York’s densely populated and highly developed coastline makes the City among the most vulnerable to hurricane-related damage. . .

New York City is particularly vulnerable to storm surge because of a geographic characteristic called the New York Bight. A bight is a curve in the shoreline of an open coast that funnels and increases the speed and intensity of storm surge. The New York Bight is located at the point where New York and New Jersey meet, creating a right angle in the coastline.



http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
*edit: he fixed it.

For what it's worth though, his blog comments were (apparently) based on data that showed a 3.3% chance of a cat 3 hurricane each year, rather than a 3.3% chance of a cat 3 every 50 years. That's a HUGE difference.
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
NON EVENT.

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/11/hurricane-sandy-the-aftermath/100397/

s_s16_RTR39UC1.jpg

FYI this was from a fire, not the storm.