Huawei launches first HarmonyOS laptop – a true turning point?

thedighubs

Member
Nov 21, 2024
131
13
41
good day dear Community, :)

Huawei will no longer be able to get Windows – now the first HarmonyOS laptop has been introduced.

Ongoing US sanctions continue to put Huawei under massive pressure, especially in the PC segment. Since Windows licenses will no longer be reliably available in the future, Huawei is now taking a new direction:

What do you think - does Huawei succeed here - do the can win the battle!?


btw: just wanted to share a clip that i saw yesterday..

HarmonyOS PC is Here

Stats: 12.449 views :: 240 likes :: 70 comments
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,537
10,049
126
Might do ok in China. I have no idea what their computing ecosystem's like. Has basically no chance outside of China's sphere of influence. Dollar store Apple with proprietary crap. A bit in English if anyone's interested...

 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,806
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A CCP endorsed product with "stronger privacy controls."

:tearsofjoy:

"Does Huawei succeed here - do the can win the battle!?"

Huawei can't compete in software and China can't compete in hardware, I'm going with No. The only battles China will win here are in places like Mozambique or Sri Lanka. Redmond isn't worried.
 

thedighubs

Member
Nov 21, 2024
131
13
41
hi thee - good evening dear kage69 - many thanks for the reply. Great to hear from you-

Huawei can't compete in software and China can't compete in hardware, I'm going with No. The only battles China will win here are in places like Mozambique or Sri Lanka. Redmond isn't worried.

agreed - fully agreed. .

food for thought.
China will win here are in places like Mozambique or Sri Lanka. Redmond isn't worried.
Well i am curious - what happens. Lets see what the future brings

greetings ;)
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,226
13,609
126
www.anyf.ca
I guess it's not any worse than something like a Chrome book, Macbook or Windows 10/11 machine which is also full of spying. Either way only way I would buy something like this is if I can wipe the OS and put Linux on it.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
32,031
50,625
136
A CCP endorsed product with "stronger privacy controls."

:tearsofjoy:

"Does Huawei succeed here - do the can win the battle!?"

Huawei can't compete in software and China can't compete in hardware, I'm going with No. The only battles China will win here are in places like Mozambique or Sri Lanka. Redmond isn't worried.

the thinking that China can't compete is becoming more laughable every year, but do keep up the chauvinism
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,806
46,099
136
the thinking that China can't compete is becoming more laughable every year, but do keep up the chauvinism


I want to believe you can do better than that. No, it's Chinese quality that's laughable, and competition requires investments. Go take a look at the current level of foreign investment in China. Still laughing? They're not. They focused on the low end for decades assuming the high end would always be available. Now they're about 8-10 years behind outfits like Intel, who is still years behind TSMC.

My guesstimate has nothing to do with chauvinism, everything to do with their inability to design and manufacture middle and higher end CPUs, with an ancillary role played by Beijing's love of espionage and IP theft. We're not in 2013 anymore Toto.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
32,031
50,625
136
Chinese quality is laughable? there's that chauvinism showing again, i used to hear the same about Japanese and Korean manufacturing.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,161
3,943
136
I want to believe you can do better than that. No, it's Chinese quality that's laughable, and competition requires investments. Go take a look at the current level of foreign investment in China. Still laughing? They're not. They focused on the low end for decades assuming the high end would always be available. Now they're about 8-10 years behind outfits like Intel, who is still years behind TSMC.

My guesstimate has nothing to do with chauvinism, everything to do with their inability to design and manufacture middle and higher end CPUs, with an ancillary role played by Beijing's love of espionage and IP theft. We're not in 2013 anymore Toto.
TSMC is a foundry, and while they are the industry leader, they don't actually design any CPUs. There aren't that many countries with leadership in designing CPUs. But your argument is that "Chinese quality" sucks because of one single product line?

If China sucks so bad at innovation, why did we have to ban them from buying ASML's most advanced lithography systems? Surely if their BEVs suck so badly, we don't need to tariff the hell out of them, right? Why did we ban Huawei from western CPUs if they can't compete in software anyway?

China is obviously still playing catch-up, but because we've taken an antagonistic posture against them (and arguably rightfully so), the CCP has decided they must become self-sufficient in key technology sectors going forward. And sadly, plenty of Nvidia's best GPUs were smuggled into China via intermediaries to fuel the AI boom.

China may never achieve parity with the U.S. as an economic superpower but give them enough time and we'll see how far they can go. The irony of "we're not in 2013 anymore" is that China has developed rapidly since the turn of the century. We're concerned about competition and fair play for valid reasons.

The other irony is that a lot of forum members here just don't want to "upgrade" to Windows 11. While Windows client hegemony isn't really at risk, this certainly cracks the door open for further gains for macOS* and even Linux. I have no opinion on HarmonyOS, but considering there are hundreds of millions of computers in China alone, that could be a massive install base even if no other global market was interested.

* In select markets such as the U.S., macOS has done rather well after Tim Cook became CEO.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,806
46,099
136
Chinese quality is laughable? there's that chauvinism showing again, i used to hear the same about Japanese and Korean manufacturing.

A large chunk of it is, yeah. No, you're just being lazy again, also maybe taking it personally, which you shouldn't. China has serious quality control problems across multiple industries; construction, food production, consumer goods, sorry but that's the truth. So much is fake in China it's ridiculous. I don't care what you heard about Japan or Korea, it in no way invalidates a very real, observable problem in China. Neither of those two have anything to worry about when it comes to quality control or oversight. Are the Russians being "chauvanistic" when they complain of their Chinese allies giving them crap? Now I'm laughing. Japan is the quality king of Asia, China is a crap shoot at best. Good quality is possible, but it's usually an exception rather than a rule.

Google tofu dreg construction and get back to us, preferably with examples of Japanese or Korean analogs to prove your point. Bonus points: provide an example of Japan or Korea having the kind of counterfeit food problem China does.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,806
46,099
136
TSMC is a foundry, and while they are the industry leader, they don't actually design any CPUs. There aren't that many countries with leadership in designing CPUs. But your argument is that "Chinese quality" sucks because of one single product line?

No, I think Chinese quality sucks across a number of industries. Apologies if I was unclear, I was referring to the printing of chips there. China has been able to make it past the 10nm mark, good for them, and while they seem like they might be able to do 7nm, I don't think they can mass produce them (yet).

If China sucks so bad at innovation, why did we have to ban them from buying ASML's most advanced lithography systems? Surely if their BEVs suck so badly, we don't need to tariff the hell out of them, right? Why did we ban Huawei from western CPUs if they can't compete in software anyway?

Several reasons I'd say. Market protection for one, China has shown a willingness to use your stuff to destroy your market for it, see Brazil. Now add in the military aspect of it, the stealing, spying and territorial belligerence China has turned into a national hobby since 2013. China, like Russia, wants to completely up end the world order, militarily and economically. I guess you'll just have to excuse people in the way of CCP ambitions for not wanting to supply or fund them.

China is obviously still playing catch-up, but because we've taken an antagonistic posture against them (and arguably rightfully so), the CCP has decided they must become self-sufficient in key technology sectors going forward. And sadly, plenty of Nvidia's best GPUs were smuggled into China via intermediaries to fuel the AI boom.

China may never achieve parity with the U.S. as an economic superpower but give them enough time and we'll see how far they can go. The irony of "we're not in 2013 anymore" is that China has developed rapidly since the turn of the century. We're concerned about competition and fair play for valid reasons.

The other irony is that a lot of forum members here just don't want to "upgrade" to Windows 11. While Windows client hegemony isn't really at risk, this certainly cracks the door open for further gains for macOS* and even Linux. I have no opinion on HarmonyOS, but considering there are hundreds of millions of computers in China alone, that could be a massive install base even if no other global market was interested.

* In select markets such as the U.S., macOS has done rather well after Tim Cook became CEO.

I'm not concerned about China acheiving parity with the US here anytime soon. They'll need to survive their Taiwan attempt and the death of Xi first. I don't think they will personally.

You are correct about the local market. One thing I'll add in parting though, MS and Apple guys in Western democracies aren't personally subject to the intelligence and security needs of any government. That is not the case with Chinese nationals, from factory workers all the way up to the company owner. Consumers and governments alike can't ignore that.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,161
3,943
136
yada yada just triple down on chauvinism, and blame others for being lazy. 🤣

Logically, if Chinese quality is utter shit, you wouldn't even need to protect against it. Because it would fail on its own.
Don't get me wrong, parts of their vast manufacturing benefit from state subsidies, which gives them an unfair pricing advantage vs western competition. For that reason, targeted tariffs does make some sense. They're indeed well known for IP theft and industrial espionage.

Glad you bring up Russia; outside of petroleum products and mail-order brides, they have absolutely nothing we want to buy. Ergo besides sanctions due to their illegal invasion of Ukraine, we don't have to target any of their industries in any way, shape or form. Yet for some reasons, we are deeply concerned about China's growing economic and military capabilities. 🤔

Finally, WSJ reports that despite export controls tying one hand behind their backs, SMIC is a capable foundry that is strategically important for China. I guess WSJ must be lazy as well.


 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,596
1,757
126
yada yada just triple down on chauvinism, and blame others for being lazy. 🤣

Logically, if Chinese quality is utter shit, you wouldn't even need to protect against it. Because it would fail on its own.
Don't get me wrong, parts of their vast manufacturing benefit from state subsidies, which gives them an unfair pricing advantage vs western competition. For that reason, targeted tariffs does make some sense. They're indeed well known for IP theft and industrial espionage.

Glad you bring up Russia; outside of petroleum products and mail-order brides, they have absolutely nothing we want to buy. Ergo besides sanctions due to their illegal invasion of Ukraine, we don't have to target any of their industries in any way, shape or form. Yet for some reasons, we are deeply concerned about China's growing economic and military capabilities. 🤔

Finally, WSJ reports that despite export controls tying one hand behind their backs, SMIC is a capable foundry that is strategically important for China. I guess WSJ must be lazy as well.


Russia has a lot of raw natural resources beyond petroleum. They *should* be a fairly wealthy country.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,161
3,943
136
Russia has a lot of raw natural resources beyond petroleum. They *should* be a fairly wealthy country.
right, stuff they dig out of the ground. The Russian Empire was an intellectual powerhouse; remember when Sputnik scared the U.S. into thinking the Soviets could dominate the space race?

Besides natural resources and Kaspersky security software, they just don't have anything we want to buy. :p It's very telling how they've waged war in Ukraine (a meat grinder), buying munitions from DPRK to bolster their supplies.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,226
13,609
126
www.anyf.ca
Reminds me a lot of Canada, we have lot of resources and potential to be an energy and manufacturing powerhouse, but we are governed by idiots.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,476
17,594
126
Reminds me a lot of Canada, we have lot of resources and potential to be an energy and manufacturing powerhouse, but we are governed by idiots.
Apparently being number 6 energy producer in the world is not good enough for Nutty Squirrel

 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,815
10,944
136
Apparently being number 6 energy producer in the world is not good enough for Nutty Squirrel

Aren't you the biggest exporters of aluminium in the world as well?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,402
32,974
136
I don’t see where the Canadian economy is failing. You have universal healthcare, a solid education system, low unemployment. You have a housing price bubble in your big cities but that doesn’t affect Red. Red has plenty of money to buy every toy he sees. Things look good from here.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,161
3,943
136
I don’t see where the Canadian economy is failing. You have universal healthcare, a solid education system, low unemployment. You have a housing price bubble in your big cities but that doesn’t affect Red. Red has plenty of money to buy every toy he sees. Things look good from here.
DJT is a serious economic threat. IIRC exports to the U.S. represent about 1/4 of the Canadian economy.

North American automaking is incredibly interconnected between the U.S., Canada and Mexico.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,226
13,609
126
www.anyf.ca
I don’t see where the Canadian economy is failing. You have universal healthcare, a solid education system, low unemployment. You have a housing price bubble in your big cities but that doesn’t affect Red. Red has plenty of money to buy every toy he sees. Things look good from here.

They can play around with stats to try to make things look good and the left wing media will always try to make their side look good, but reality is at an individual level things are bad for practically everyone except the rich. Our standard of living is declining.

Inflation over the years has been very bad and even though it's mostly back to normal now, the damage from the previous years is done. By the time all the bills come out there is absolutely no room for toys. I have less disposable income now making more money than I had 15 years ago making less money.

I'm fairly well off in that I make decent money but even for me it's tight, for those making a more average salary they are struggling a lot more to make ends meet. My parents are both retired and are struggling, they may end up having to give up their house. The bills are just too high, and they still need to pay lot of taxes too on what little money they have coming in, they don't really get much of a break. My dad ended up owing like 9 grand this year. They don't have that kind of money, so it's going on credit.. Lot of projects they wanted to do around the house had to be put on hold. It's pretty sad that you can't even enjoy your own property after retirement because all the bills take most of your money.

The unemployment rate is not a great metric either, because a lot of jobs are taken by immigrants and are minimum wage jobs, they live like 20 in a house, which is a very shitty standard of living. They also get tons of money from the government so they may be well off but rest of us are all paying for it.

Our debt is also out of control and eventually that will catch up to us, probably via even higher taxes. This government loves to spend money on all sorts of useless pet projects while the things that matter are crumbling. I'm willing to give Carney a bit of benifit of doubt though as he has already made some cuts in public sector such as CRA and Passport office, maybe this is a sign of what's to come. We need some big cuts and more efficiency in all government programs to try to do something about our growing debt. He also says he wants to unlock resource projects, so that could very well help us. So we'll see...


Just saw this article after making this post: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/high-immigration-is-worsening-canadas-economic-problems-says-report

It focuses more on house prices though, the real issue IMO is all the ongoing costs since even if you already own your house from before the houses went crazy, all the bills have gone up over the years so the price you have to pay just to keep your house is higher each year. But even in my area the houses have gone up. A house very similar to mine just sold for like half a million a few blocks from me. I would never be able to afford that.


Screenshot from 2025-06-03 16-56-04.png
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,476
17,594
126
They can play around with stats to try to make things look good and the left wing media will always try to make their side look good, but reality is at an individual level things are bad for practically everyone except the rich. Our standard of living is declining.

Inflation over the years has been very bad and even though it's mostly back to normal now, the damage from the previous years is done. By the time all the bills come out there is absolutely no room for toys. I have less disposable income now making more money than I had 15 years ago making less money.

I'm fairly well off in that I make decent money but even for me it's tight, for those making a more average salary they are struggling a lot more to make ends meet. My parents are both retired and are struggling, they may end up having to give up their house. The bills are just too high, and they still need to pay lot of taxes too on what little money they have coming in, they don't really get much of a break. My dad ended up owing like 9 grand this year. They don't have that kind of money, so it's going on credit.. Lot of projects they wanted to do around the house had to be put on hold. It's pretty sad that you can't even enjoy your own property after retirement because all the bills take most of your money.

The unemployment rate is not a great metric either, because a lot of jobs are taken by immigrants and are minimum wage jobs, they live like 20 in a house, which is a very shitty standard of living. They also get tons of money from the government so they may be well off but rest of us are all paying for it.

Our debt is also out of control and eventually that will catch up to us, probably via even higher taxes. This government loves to spend money on all sorts of useless pet projects while the things that matter are crumbling. I'm willing to give Carney a bit of benifit of doubt though as he has already made some cuts in public sector such as CRA and Passport office, maybe this is a sign of what's to come. We need some big cuts and more efficiency in all government programs to try to do something about our growing debt. He also says he wants to unlock resource projects, so that could very well help us. So we'll see...


Just saw this article after making this post: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/high-immigration-is-worsening-canadas-economic-problems-says-report

It focuses more on house prices though, the real issue IMO is all the ongoing costs since even if you already own your house from before the houses went crazy, all the bills have gone up over the years so the price you have to pay just to keep your house is higher each year. But even in my area the houses have gone up. A house very similar to mine just sold for like half a million a few blocks from me. I would never be able to afford that.


View attachment 124840

Canadian birth rate is too low. You either import tax payers or watch the country nosedive.

You are not qualified to count beans. I am glad you are nowhere near policy making.