HTC Titan on AT&T 11/20 WP7.5 About time!! reveiw added.

[IamDavid]

Whole thread's discussion is a moot point. Not like anyone is going to be buying the Titan anyway, especially when its going to be advertised next to devices with dual core CPUs, GBs of RAM, and higher resolution screens. Customers may not know the difference, but they do know that bigger numbers are better, 2 is better than one, etc. WP7's single digit market share is laughable, and we give RIM the flak.

Laughable now but once they begin actually competing they'll easily make up the ground. Corporations will flock to them abandoning RIM/Apple/Driods because of the interoperability. Imagine the potential they’ll have with businesses running windows server, workstations and everything else. My company will be the first in line to drop RIM. The Skype deal alone shows how they are thinking.
MS hasn’t been “lost” on the smart phone front, just a little slow to react and definitely too strict with vendors. If you don’t believe me or agree check out last Q’s profits.  Remember the Xbox when first released? How many cars are equipped with Apple’s/RIMS or Google’s version or Sync? I’m not a MS fanboy but I can put two and two together and see the potential they’re putting together. Scary if you ask me.

 

[dougp]

Bigger is better, eh? I guess they consider 4.7" to be better than 4.5", then Bigger numbers might be better, but if the tag at AT&T says "qHD"....ah....they don't know what that means, and you don't see a whole lot of tags in the store that mention RAM.

Don't worry, the Titan isn't going to outsell the GSII, and I don't think anyone in this thread is expecting it to. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't have a market. You want to know why people are excited about it, and so I explained it to you. You knew going in that there was 0% chance you'd be interested in the phone, so why are you even here?

Because all he does is freaking troll threads. I don't understand why his Android fanboi troll posts don't get him warned or anything. We get it Bat, but quite simply, we don't give a fuck about your opinion considering you're wearing your Android glasses 110% of the time.

 

[Fire&Blood]

I do realize that WP7 hasn't exactly lit up the checkout lines so far, but with the exception of the gadget crowd, I highly, highly doubt dual core has anything to do with it.

So true. I believe I am in a unique position to judge relevant ecosystems not only because I used them all in the past but because I extensively used both Android and WP7 on the same phone, my HD2.

WP7 lags less than Android on the HD2 and obviously neither are native to the phone. I have tweaked my Android build to perfection, I run Gingerbread lean and mean but it's still a bit slower than WP7. I won't compare it to iOS because I only owned the original iphone, I played with every new model since but some hands on time with a phone and actually owning it for 4-5 months are very different experiences.


8 out of 10 features that are either unique to Android or land on Android first won't hit home with mainstream consumers. Such as NFC, 1GB RAM, customizing, you get the point. But due to it's agility, Android also introduces features that do matter even to mainstream consumers, such as LTE or a HD display, either unique or temporarily exclusive to Android. And that's how Android shines and secures platform survival and growth.

Microsoft has it's work cut out but based on my experiences with WP7 I have a sense of direction where they are headed and I think they will get done.

I know some will argue me on this but Android wasn't a serious OS, with an established ecosystems and at least somewhat polished OS until Froyo. I should know because I was one of the early adopters. I think it would be fair to give WP7 same amount of time. And as Eclair was relevant to Android, same should occur with WP7 with Apollo.

Well, there hasn't been another major release announced for Windows Phone, the next one rumored is Apollo, so I wouldn't get my hopes up before then.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the Apollo roadmap, I am absolutely certain that Microsoft will adopt Qualcomm's S4 as soon as it's able to. Microsoft is pursuing Android partly to prevent it running away now because they know that their spec update will even the playing field.
Just as I am sure that targeting Samsung and HTC with patents was primarily done to ensure their attention to WP7.

I do know that individual expectation that smartphone users have for their phones are almost as unique as fingerprints. No matter how an OS and it's hardware may appeal to users, with as much complexity and diversity in the smartphone market, none can capture absolute majority.

As for the Titan, it's a beautiful device. I read somewhere that it has the best display/bezel ratio out of all smartphones and it's such a remarkable progression from HD2-HD7-Titan. Limited exposure and spotlight on LTE devices hurts but it's still a very appealing phone, provided one gets to look at it since AT&T stores are dominated by other OS's/devices.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I don't care what anyone says, I think this phone has a market. In particular I would easily recommend it to the silver hair crowd. Why gaze at an iPhone through reading glasses when you can have a similar smooth and easy experience on a literal titan? That crowd doesn't care about dual-core and RAM or whatever. All they know is they can see it, it works with the computer they got two Christmases ago, and it connects them to the people they love.

I am a fan.

 

[hanoverphist]

That's cool, I'll just sit here, waiting for Verizon to get a new WP. Fucking Big Red.

this.

and realistically, its not much bigger than the droidX i already have. the dimensions say its about 1/4" longer, 1/3" wider and thinner than my phone already is. not too shabby. i have large hands, so i doubt id have too much trouble adapting to it.

i just wish vzw would pull their heads out their proverbial ass and get a few contenders.

 

[quest55720]

If you are willing to hold out an extra 6 days. ATT will have all windows 7 phones for 99 cents on the 26th.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?p...75&mapcode=wireless-networks-general|consumer

 

[s44]

If you are willing to hold out an extra 6 days. ATT will have all windows 7 phones for 99 cents on the 26th.

... at which point you should buy the Focus S

 

[quest55720]

Depends on what you are looking for. Every review I have checked out talks about the very outstanding battery life of the titan and build quality. Battery life is what I am looking for when I upgrade my focus. That and the large screen is going to be great for my old eyes lol.

 

[s44]

Even though the text of the Engadget review makes no sense, it does confirm that the Focus S has better battery life than the Titan (and near twice as long as the Lumia 800... NokiaFail!).

 

[quest55720]

Thank you did not see that before. It is a shame that samsung has such horrible build quality with its W7 phones. I love my focus but the build quality is sub-par IMO. I checked out the focus s this weekend and the build quality is sub-par IMO.

 

[QueBert]

specs mean NOTHING, a 1st gen w7 phone is smoother and overall faster than all but 1 or 2 of any Android phone out there. I would never get an Android phone based off specs. Hell I used a Moto something or other with a dual core and it felt like a WM6.1 phone. WM7 runs absolutely brilliantly on less than cutting edge hardware.

 

[Teknic]

800x480 resolution, single core CPU, tiny amount of RAM . . . why are you guys interested in this again? Just because it has WP7.5?

I have a 1.5 GHz dual core Adreno 220 Android phone. Went to the store to play around with a 1st generation Windows Phone and was surprised to see that the Windows Phone was so much smoother. I had heard it was smooth but didn't know how smooth until I played around with it. It really was no contest, the Windows Phone felt a lot faster specs be damned.

I'd love to get the Titan.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

specs mean NOTHING, a 1st gen w7 phone is smoother and overall faster than all but 1 or 2 of any Android phone out there. I would never get an Android phone based off specs. Hell I used a Moto something or other with a dual core and it felt like a WM6.1 phone. WM7 runs absolutely brilliantly on less than cutting edge hardware.

Being smooth and being fast are two different things. Any modern Android phone will destroy the Titan at being fast and the Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S2 are just as smooth.

Due to the lack of interest in WP7 no one seems to bother benchmarking them so they only metric I have been able to find is sunsipder, the Titan got 6,500ms while the Droid Razr is much quicker at only 2,067ms.

 

[Deeko]

All of the reviews do run WPBench on them. Believe it or not, no matter how hard Engadget tries, they just can't get Quadrant to run on Mango...

Anyway, I've never been a fan of sunspider when benchmarking cross platform. Its useful when comparing different devices running the same software, but loses it when comparing browsers too. Some browsers just do better in SunSpider, all other things aside (literally...including website loading performance).

 

[Puddle Jumper]

All of the reviews do run WPBench on them. Believe it or not, no matter how hard Engadget tries, they just can't get Quadrant to run on Mango...

Anyway, I've never been a fan of sunspider when benchmarking cross platform. Its useful when comparing different devices running the same software, but loses it when comparing browsers too. Some browsers just do better in SunSpider, all other things aside (literally...including website loading performance).

WPBench isn't very useful since it has no Android or iOS equivalent.

I admit judging performance based off of Sunspider is a bit of a stretch and far from ideal. Since WP7 doesn't have any cross platform benchmarks it's really the only option.

 

[IamDavid]

Being smooth and being fast are two different things. Any modern Android phone will destroy the Titan at being fast and the Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S2 are just as smooth.

Due to the lack of interest in WP7 no one seems to bother benchmarking them so they only metric I have been able to find is sunsipder, the Titan got 6,500ms while the Droid Razr is much quicker at only 2,067ms.

Being FAST at what exactly? I keep hearing this argument yet I'm lost as to what it actually means.

Thanks

 

[Deeko]

WPBench isn't very useful since it has no Android or iOS equivalent.

I admit judging performance based off of Sunspider is a bit of a stretch and far from ideal. Since WP7 doesn't have any cross platform benchmarks it's really the only option.

I know, that's what I meant. The benchmarks everyone uses are solely on a single platform. Really, a test like website load time is really the best we can do to test something cross platform. I find they more useful than Sunspider.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I know, that's what I meant. The benchmarks everyone uses are solely on a single platform. Really, a test like website load time is really the best we can do to test something cross platform. I find they more useful than Sunspider.

There are cross platform benchmarks for Android and iOS, GLBenchmark being the prime example.

 

[dguy6789]

Being FAST at what exactly? I keep hearing this argument yet I'm lost as to what it actually means.

Thanks

Things like application loading time, ability to multitask without slowing down, game frame rates, how smoothly CPU intense apps run, javascript, things like that. The more powerful the phone, the better it does all of this.

 

[Deeko]

There are cross platform benchmarks for Android and iOS, GLBenchmark being the prime example.

They are out there, but the focus for Android reviews is usually on Quadrant and Linpack. And either way, I can only assume frombthr name that GLBenchmark tests OpenGL, whereas Windows Phone uses XNA for 3D. Which really brings to light the inherent problem with cross platform benchmarking - you are benchmarking software performance, not just hardware.

Lets say something like GLBenchmark did exist on all platforms - but the developers put.more time into one version than the others. Well, that one platform is going to look superior, when in reality, its just running a superior version of the software.

Similarly SunSpider. This is a common one because it works everywhere...but you still cant reliably use it to test page load speeds. The IE engine is notoriously bad at sunspider, but my Focus loads pages as fast or faster than my Vibrant, which gets much better scores. Synthetic benchmarks are.only useful when comparing much more closely related things...like, say, the Titan vs the Focus.

This brings hack memories of the old days of AT when I used to protest everyone's obsession with 3DMark, back in the 3Dfx days...

 

[Puddle Jumper]

They are out there, but the focus for Android reviews is usually on Quadrant and Linpack. And either way, I can only assume frombthr name that GLBenchmark tests OpenGL, whereas Windows Phone uses XNA for 3D. Which really brings to light the inherent problem with cross platform benchmarking - you are benchmarking software performance, not just hardware.

Lets say something like GLBenchmark did exist on all platforms - but the developers put.more time into one version than the others. Well, that one platform is going to look superior, when in reality, its just running a superior version of the software.

Similarly SunSpider. This is a common one because it works everywhere...but you still cant reliably use it to test page load speeds. The IE engine is notoriously bad at sunspider, but my Focus loads pages as fast or faster than my Vibrant, which gets much better scores. Synthetic benchmarks are.only useful when comparing much more closely related things...like, say, the Titan vs the Focus.

This brings hack memories of the old days of AT when I used to protest everyone's obsession with 3DMark, back in the 3Dfx days...

I thought the goal was to benchmark hardware + software, we all know WP7 has much slower hardware but everyone argues the software somehow makes up for that fact.

 

[Deeko]

I thought the goal was to benchmark hardware + software, we all know WP7 has much slower hardware but everyone argues the software somehow makes up for that fact.

That's not the software I'm talking about. I'm talking about the actual benchmark software being suboptimal.

Either way, a synthetic benchmark is useless for a comparison like that. As useless now as it ever has been. Its already been explained how Windows Phone performs fast despite the hardware - navigation, scrolling, zooming, etc. If you want something more measureable, page loading speed is a far, far more useful measure than a synthetic benchmark.

Look - as most discussions on this subforum, this is going nowhere. If you are the type that wants faster specs and high benchmark scores...get that. People that understand what I mean about WP7 being fast despite slower software get what I mean. Those that don't, won't. So why keep running in circles?

 

[Puddle Jumper]

That's not the software I'm talking about. I'm talking about the actual benchmark software being suboptimal.

Either way, a synthetic benchmark is useless for a comparison like that. As useless now as it ever has been. Its already been explained how Windows Phone performs fast despite the hardware - navigation, scrolling, zooming, etc. If you want something more measureable, page loading speed is a far, far more useful measure than a synthetic benchmark.

Look - as most discussions on this subforum, this is going nowhere. If you are the type that wants faster specs and high benchmark scores...get that. People that understand what I mean about WP7 being fast despite slower software get what I mean. Those that don't, won't. So why keep running in circles?

I know what you mean about differences in software quality however one would hope that anyone bothering to make a cross platform benchmark would strive for consistency.

Synthetic benchmarks are useful because they provide facts. GLbenchmark for example tells us a lot about how gpu performance stacks up between the various high end handsets so we can make informed recommendations and purchasing decisions. Anyone can say their phone of choice is fast but if they can't back that up with hard evidence how do we know they are not just a fanyboy trying to make their team look good?

 

[arod]

I thought the goal was to benchmark hardware + software, we all know WP7 has much slower hardware but everyone argues the software somehow makes up for that fact.

Software can make up for hardware when it allows for hardware acceleration which wp7 does support across the entire os. If it did not there is no way the hardware in there would be smooth. Just look at all the launch devices are performing just as well as the new devices and as fast as any other mobile device out there (with out of date hardware). That is the definition of software making up for that fact.

 

[Deeko]

I know what you mean about differences in software quality however one would hope that anyone bothering to make a cross platform benchmark would strive for consistency.

Synthetic benchmarks are useful because they provide facts. GLbenchmark for example tells us a lot about how gpu performance stacks up between the various high end handsets so we can make informed recommendations and purchasing decisions. Anyone can say their phone of choice is fast but if they can't back that up with hard evidence how do we know they are not just a fanyboy trying to make their team look good?

Again, though, they are two different things. Even if we had some sort of a perfect cross platform benchmark, of course its going to show that the Titan has a slower GPU than the iPhone 4S or others. No one is denying that. The real question is "so what difference does that make - how do the devices actually perform?" And honestly, while the enthusiest crowd might not like it...its impossible to put a number on that. You have to pick up the phone and use it to see those differences.