HR 1 urgently needs to pass through filibuster

[nickqt]

Joe Manchin writes editorial coming out against HR1, not because of anything actually in the bill that he disagrees with, but because republicans don't support it.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/opinion/op_ed_commentaries/joe-manchin-why-im-voting-against-the-for-the-people-act/article_c7eb2551-a500-5f77-aa37-2e42d0af870f.html

This man has a serious brain defect.

He LARPS as a Democrat in the Senate though, so we have to do whatever he says.

 

[fskimospy]

Joe Manchin writes editorial coming out against HR1, not because of anything actually in the bill that he disagrees with, but because republicans don't support it.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/opinion/op_ed_commentaries/joe-manchin-why-im-voting-against-the-for-the-people-act/article_c7eb2551-a500-5f77-aa37-2e42d0af870f.html

This man has a serious brain defect.

It’s an interesting idea - Manchin won’t support efforts to stop Republicans from cheating unless the Republicans agree to it.

 

[Muse]

Joe Manchin writes editorial coming out against HR1, not because of anything actually in the bill that he disagrees with, but because republicans don't support it.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/opinion/op_ed_commentaries/joe-manchin-why-im-voting-against-the-for-the-people-act/article_c7eb2551-a500-5f77-aa37-2e42d0af870f.html

This man has a serious brain defect.

Hopefully his clout will disappear after the 2022 election, i.e. Democrats have a better majority than the tenuous one now. I mean look: It was considered almost impossible that they'd win both seats in GA. An energized Democratic electorate in 2022 could pull it off.

 

[fskimospy]

He LARPS as a Democrat in the Senate though, so we have to do whatever he says.

I mean…yes. He’s the deciding vote for the Senate and Democrats have essentially zero leverage over him. If you primary him, the person who beats him loses the general election.

 

[brycejones]

It’s an interesting idea - Manchin won’t support efforts to stop Republicans from cheating unless the Republicans agree to it.

It's a bold move Cotton, let's see how it works out.

 

[nickqt]

I mean…yes. He’s the deciding vote for the Senate and Democrats have essentially zero leverage over him. If you primary him, the person who beats him loses the general election.

Right, and so far, Manchin has voted for what, the money that should have been sent out 6 months prior to it in 2020, and some appointments by Biden.

Manchin is a shit-tier Senator. I'd rather play games with Rmoney and tell Manchin he can go LARP as McCain or whatever on his own dime. Same with Sinema.

It's pretty clear that Manchin and Sinema are perfectly happy to watch this country die, as long as they get to play a starring role, so fuck them.

 

[fskimospy]

Right, and so far, Manchin has voted for what, the money that should have been sent out 6 months prior to it in 2020, and some appointments by Biden.

Manchin is a shit-tier Senator. I'd rather play games with Rmoney and tell Manchin he can go LARP as McCain or whatever on his own dime. Same with Sinema.

It's pretty clear that Manchin and Sinema are perfectly happy to watch this country die, as long as they get to play a starring role, so fuck them.

What would make you think Romney is interested in passing anything that Manchin is not?

 

[cytg111]

So. Manchin is an insurrectionist. Be sure to paint him as one. This is the guy who mulled but but but partisan, while democracy was choked out in front of him. If he is not part of the solution he is part of the problem and thus actively participating in the big lie.

 

[nickqt]

What would make you think Romney is interested in passing anything that Manchin is not?

I don't think Rmoney or Murkowski are decent people. But, Rmoney is definitely interested in power, so giving him a Chairmanship might work. Murkowski represents Alaska and won as a write-in, so she can do whatever she wants, so just direct money to whatever she wants.

You and I live in a bubble in the sense that we pay attention to politics.

The American Public, not so much. So the optics here are that, even if you elect Democrats, they don't get anything done because they're just as partisan as Republicans. The TRUTH doesn't matter, it's the fucking optics. McConnell knows that. And so the fuck does Manchin and Sinema. Watch Manchin hem and haw about how he wants the Bipartisan Unicorn to come and bless this country upon high. Watch Sinema go do a curtsey as she collects all of her special interest $$$$.

Manchin and Sinema are the optics that if the Democrats are going to be just as partisan as Republicans, might as well elect a Republican. They will be the reason the Republicans take back the government and do what Trump almost did: kill the country so the oligarchs can buy up the remains and be the aristocrats they dream about.

 

[ondma]

Hopefully his clout will disappear after the 2022 election, i.e. Democrats have a better majority than the tenuous one now. I mean look: It was considered almost impossible that they'd win both seats in GA. An energized Democratic electorate in 2022 could pull it off.

It *could* happen. OTOH, the Dems could lose both the house and the senate. They actually did very poorly in down ballot votes in 2020, losing house seats and eeking out only a tenuous "majority" in the Senate, when some were predicting they would do much better. And mid terms typically favor the party out of power in the presidency. Manchin certainly is not helping by obstructing the voting rights bill and refusing to come out against the filibuster.

 

[MichaelMay]

What would make you think Romney is interested in passing anything that Manchin is not?

Romney has played his card, he's not part of the republican establishment anymore but apparently Manchin is.

 

[fskimospy]

Romney has played his card, he's not part of the republican establishment anymore but apparently Manchin is.

Well if that’s the case then Democrats don’t need Manchin’s vote because Romney will do it instead. I won’t be holding my breath.

 

[MichaelMay]

Well if that’s the case then Democrats don’t need Manchin’s vote because Romney will do it instead. I won’t be holding my breath.

To overturn the filibuster? I'd say that there is about a 300% higher chance of Romney voting for it than Manchin but about a 0.1% chance that Romney will vote for it.

If it isn't passed then democracy in America is gone. The voter suppression laws are plentiful and it's only been four months, by the time they are done they'll rule supreme and Manchin will still be out of a job.

 

[nickqt]

To overturn the filibuster? I'd say that there is about a 300% higher chance of Romney voting for it than Manchin but about a 0.1% chance that Romney will vote for it.

If it isn't passed then democracy in America is gone. The voter suppression laws are plentiful and it's only been four months, by the time they are done they'll rule supreme and Manchin will still be out of a job.

The voter suppression laws are just distractions. I think that typically in the end, the GOTV makes up for it. As I've stated previously, just give Stacey Abrams the GOTV job for the DNC and a $100,000,000 budget and let her do what Democrats before her couldn't.

The real thing to watch are the laws being passed where Republican Legislatures can overrule the election if they don't like the results. That's the real endgame Republicans are setting up. All it takes is one election where the results are overturned and then that's it, there's never a reason to ever give up power, because LOOK AT THE CHAOS OF DEMOCRATS TRYING TO OVERTURN THE OVERTURNED ELECTION OH MY GOD THE CHAOS.

The thing is, dictators erupt out of chaos. Republicans using "the law" to overturn an election will almost 100% bring about rioting by a populace that knows they're getting fucked, and voila, the CHAOS Republicans need.

That's the META here. Never mind the "voter suppression" laws that probably won't do a god damn thing but make it that much harder for Americans to vote, because that's what Republicans do. Republicans making people jump through hoops to vote is baked into the cake already. The razor blade hiding in that cake are the laws where State Legislators can just change/overrule the election if they want.

 

[theeedude]

Manchin is useful for confirming judges. Plus he'd lose in W Va if he wasn't a DINO. But I don't get Sinema.

 

[K1052]

HR1/S1 was aways most likely to die. It was a messaging bill and was pretty much a mess, the campaign finance stuff was pretty unpopular among the people who would have to vote for it.

The two most important components are the partisan gerrymandering restrictions and voting access. I'd rather see airtight laws drafted and passed to take those on specifically. Manchin also speaks very favorably of the John Lewis Voting Rights Act going to far as to suggest pre-clearance for the entire country.

 

[K1052]

Manchin is useful for confirming judges. Plus he'd lose in W Va if he wasn't a DINO. But I don't get Sinema.

I've heard it suggested that she's just kind of nuts. After reading some of her just massively, demonstrably wrong takes on the filibuster and the routine manner in which she inflicts political self harm for no discernible reason I'm hard pressed to argue.

 

[MichaelMay]

The voter suppression laws are just distractions. I think that typically in the end, the GOTV makes up for it. As I've stated previously, just give Stacey Abrams the GOTV job for the DNC and a $100,000,000 budget and let her do what Democrats before her couldn't.

The real thing to watch are the laws being passed where Republican Legislatures can overrule the election if they don't like the results. That's the real endgame Republicans are setting up. All it takes is one election where the results are overturned and then that's it, there's never a reason to ever give up power, because LOOK AT THE CHAOS OF DEMOCRATS TRYING TO OVERTURN THE OVERTURNED ELECTION OH MY GOD THE CHAOS.

The thing is, dictators erupt out of chaos. Republicans using "the law" to overturn an election will almost 100% bring about rioting by a populace that knows they're getting fucked, and voila, the CHAOS Republicans need.

That's the META here. Never mind the "voter suppression" laws that probably won't do a god damn thing but make it that much harder for Americans to vote, because that's what Republicans do.

Oh I'm counting those as part of the voter suppression laws, those are the backups if the regular suppression isn't enough. It reeks of by the book fascism, all that's left is imprisonment of political opposition and it's not like they haven't called for that already.

We're in agreement on this.

 

[gothuevos]

Again, we are in the waning days of a once great empire.

Just enjoy the little (and big) things for now. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[nickqt]

Again, we are in the waning days of a once great empire.

Just enjoy the little (and big) things for now. Nothing lasts forever.

We are an Empire, and I'd argue that minus our role in WWI and WWII, saying "great" depends on what you mean by the word.

The thing is, as a Representative Democracy (let's avoid the nonsensical, "it's a democracy", "no, it's a republic" stuff) we citizens can vote in people who are less god-awful terrible than their opponents. The goal being to wind down the Empire part without the maniacs getting the levers of power and using nuclear weapons and drone terrorism to extract "revenge" or to plunder before the Empire crashes into the ground.

In fact, I believe that we don't have to crash - we can set this fucker down gently enough so that US citizens and the world-at-large doesn't need any additional suffering. It won't be particularly comfortable or pretty, but it can be relatively peaceful and non-destructive.

But it takes a lot of money, time, and willpower to prevent maniacs from taking power, because at the end of the day, it's natural for a maniac to seek power, whereas it's unnatural for decent people to seek power...hence why politics is almost always an uphill struggle between decent people and fucking maniacs.

So, yes, Empire is going to come to a halt, as it should. But we don't have to let the maniacs control it and drive it straight down into the ground (to continue using a failing aircraft - a B52 would be fitting - as a metaphor).

Let's put this thing down gently and rebuild internally. To do that, we have to continue working to prevent the maniacs from intentionally crashing.

 

[gothuevos]

We are an Empire, and I'd argue that minus our role in WWI and WWII, saying "great" depends on what you mean by the word.

The thing is, as a Representative Democracy (let's avoid the nonsensical, "it's a democracy", "no, it's a republic" stuff) we citizens can vote in people who are less god-awful terrible than their opponents. The goal being to wind down the Empire part without the maniacs getting the levers of power and using nuclear weapons and drone terrorism to extract "revenge" or to plunder before the Empire crashes into the ground.

In fact, I believe that we don't have to crash - we can set this fucker down gently enough so that US citizens and the world-at-large doesn't need any additional suffering. It won't be particularly comfortable or pretty, but it can be relatively peaceful and non-destructive.

But it takes a lot of money, time, and willpower to prevent maniacs from taking power, because at the end of the day, it's natural for a maniac to seek power, whereas it's unnatural for decent people to seek power...hence why politics is almost always an uphill struggle between decent people and fucking maniacs.

So, yes, Empire is going to come to a halt, as it should. But we don't have to let the maniacs control it and drive it straight down into the ground (to continue using a failing aircraft - a B52 would be fitting - as a metaphor).

Let's put this thing down gently and rebuild internally. To do that, we have to continue working to prevent the maniacs from intentionally crashing.

I like the sentiment, but pretty soon even voting won't matter.

 

[nickqt]

I like the sentiment, but pretty soon even voting won't matter.

Maybe, maybe not.

It could be that if we can survive for another decade without letting the fascists take over, enough of the Baby Boomer generation (not trying to flame the generational warfare thing...just saying that many Baby Boomers in power are fucking maniacal shitbirds) will not be eligible for voting due to natural causes, and the Gen-X through Gen-Z citizens can unfuck the fuckery of the past 50 years that the Baby Boomers (in charge -again see above most of y'all are just fine) have wrought using "law".

I'm not someone who thinks that "Demographic Destiny" will be the saviour of our country, because they're still making new old people every day, but the Baby Boomers (the ones in charge) are particularly kinda shitty, and they're hopefully the last generation of Americans who grew up thinking that the Jim Crow that they were raised in might be ugly, but was "just the way it is". Their minds are warped from a shit-tier culture, and honestly, probably a lot of lead poisoning (imagine being the fucking monster(s) who thought burning lead in hundreds of millions of cars for decades was a good idea).

It ain't over yet. Just giving up is on you, not the maniacs trying to kill the country.

 

[nickqt]

Manchin is useful for confirming judges. Plus he'd lose in W Va if he wasn't a DINO. But I don't get Sinema.

Easy. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[woolfe9998]

I like the sentiment, but pretty soon even voting won't matter.

Serious question: what makes you think you can predict the future any better than anyone else? What you're really doing is expressing cynicism, which is an emotional state. And it's understandable as there are tons of things going on right now which tend to provoke such an emotional state. I know as I experience it too. Which doesn't change the fact that no one of us really knows what is going to happen.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Personally I am concerned about the “legislator” can change the outcome if fraud is found or believed.
How many Trump humping Governors would change their 2020 results if it was within their power? I bet a startling amount.
Once that happens what is the response, hopefully the people would overwhelmingly vote for a replacement but once that become apparent what stops them from expanding the law to state elections? Then what is the response?