How's that tax cut working out?

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Did the "tax cut" help or hurt you?

  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $0-50K

    Votes: 6 10.5%
  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $51-100K

    Votes: 5 8.8%
  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $101-200K

    Votes: 9 15.8%
  • Tax Rate Went Up - Income $200K+

    Votes: 6 10.5%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $0-50K

    Votes: 2 3.5%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $51-100K

    Votes: 7 12.3%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $101-200K

    Votes: 13 22.8%
  • Tax Rate Went Down - Income $200K+

    Votes: 9 15.8%

  • Total voters
    57

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
7,084
92
126
#76
The national news tonight telling people they error by not changing their withholding to brace for the tax hike. Or to offset the loss in refunds.
In other words, adjust your withholding so more is taken out per paycheck, then come April the pain won't hurt so much.
What?
I thought that few extra dollars in the paycheck was suppose to be a Donald Trump "gift" to the middle class? Now they are tell people to adjust their withholding to take that Trump gift back again.
THIS is easily explained, and people should not be shocked because the middle class has been thru this many times before.
Its called..... TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS, incase anyone might have forgot.
 

Chocu1a

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2009
1,421
5
91
#77
Jun 4, 2004
12,463
463
146
#78
Thanks Repubs, you big stinking piles of shite! First time in ALL MY ADULT LIFE I owe money ! You and Orange Cheeto are the worst. Not only did you take shit tons of money from my paycheck, now your stank ass are double dipping.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/6/18214039/irs-tax-refund-withholding-trump Gee, thanks tRump, for actually costing me more. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Look in many cases for people who are getting less back or paying more on April 15th, they still paid less taxes because less was withheld.

So Trump and the congressional Republicans should go on TV and explain this subtle nuance to their angry base.

Because if there’s one thing I’m sure of it’s that Trumps base is more than willing to understand subtle nuance.
 

Chocu1a

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2009
1,421
5
91
#79
Look in many cases for people who are getting less back or paying more on April 15th, they still paid less taxes because less was withheld.

So Trump and the congressional Republicans should go on TV and explain this subtle nuance to their angry base.

Because if there’s one thing I’m sure of it’s that Trumps base is more than willing to understand subtle nuance.
Compared to last year, I still paid comparatively same amount of tax according to my returns. I saw maybe 3-5 dollars more per check after that AMAZING tax cut.
 
Jan 12, 2005
14,924
2,465
126
#80
Looks like I will pay ~$500 less this year.
 
Nov 8, 2012
10,385
386
126
#81
Remember the old line about "be the change you want to see in the world"? You will need to accept that line needs to be adjusted to "you're the rich people you have been demanding to be taxed" and stop with the BS that you're just "upper middle class." You are wrongly thinking "rich" doesn't apply to you; there's not a bunch of plutocrats hiding behind trees in the suburbs of red states lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills and conspiring ways to keep folks like you down. You my friend are the rich person you've been hating on for years.
Hit the nail on the head

I already explained this in another thread - The mantra is always "Tax THEM more". (but give me more or at the very least don't tax me more)

It's part of what makes everything a strife instead of coming together for the better good of the country.
 
Nov 8, 2012
10,385
386
126
#82
Look in many cases for people who are getting less back or paying more on April 15th, they still paid less taxes because less was withheld.

So Trump and the congressional Republicans should go on TV and explain this subtle nuance to their angry base.

Because if there’s one thing I’m sure of it’s that Trumps base is more than willing to understand subtle nuance.
I'm pretty sure that people on this very messageboard don't understand that subtle nuance either.

Anyone that voted that they make $0 - $50,000 and somehow paid more in tax this year (vs. last year with the same income) is full of shit. 100% full of shit, no question.

I mentioned this earlier that anyone that voted for that option to come forward and give some further details to explain - none have.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
60,185
1,435
126
#83
I'm pretty sure that people on this very messageboard don't understand that subtle nuance either.

Anyone that voted that they make $0 - $50,000 and somehow paid more in tax this year (vs. last year with the same income) is full of shit. 100% full of shit, no question.

I mentioned this earlier that anyone that voted for that option to come forward and give some further details to explain - none have.
You are right. While those people will long term be paying higher taxes for the rest of their lives in order to finance tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires in the short term they are paying less.
 
Nov 8, 2012
10,385
386
126
#84
You are right. While those people will long term be paying higher taxes for the rest of their lives in order to finance tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires in the short term they are paying less.
I honestly think (hope, really) that Dems will take back a super majority in 2020 and will quickly address it with their own tax reform... At least, long before the 10 years is up.

While I don't mind taxes going up overall, I really hope they stick with eliminating SALT deductions.... hell, even property based ones (mortgage interest)
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
1,319
126
#85
You are right. While those people will long term be paying higher taxes for the rest of their lives in order to finance tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires in the short term they are paying less.
The fakery in the way TrumpCo jiggered with withholding is symptomatic of the whole. It looks like you're getting a decent tax cut on your paychecks until you file at which point reality sets in & it turns out to be chump change. Some people who cut it close on withholding end up having to cut a check, I'm sure.

It's entirely different for the true Bush constituency, obviously.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
60,185
1,435
126
#86
I honestly think (hope, really) that Dems will take back a super majority in 2020 and will quickly address it with their own tax reform... At least, long before the 10 years is up.

While I don't mind taxes going up overall, I really hope they stick with eliminating SALT deductions.... hell, even property based ones (mortgage interest)
I agree those tax breaks should be eliminated because they are pointless and regressive. I do not agree with the fact that they were eliminated in order to give rich people even more money.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
1,319
126
#87
I agree those tax breaks should be eliminated because they are pointless and regressive. I do not agree with the fact that they were eliminated in order to give rich people even more money.
Be careful what you wish for. If those deductions are eliminated for individuals & not business it will shift the rent/own balance point towards renting. Renting 'til you die, of course. House payments never go up. Rent always does.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
126
#88
I agree those tax breaks should be eliminated because they are pointless and regressive. I do not agree with the fact that they were eliminated in order to give rich people even more money.
You’ll notice your side are the only people who have been tying the cap of SALT to the rest of the Trump tax cuts. The rest of us have basically said limiting or eliminating SALT is the morally correct thing to do and have expressed no opinion about other tax subjects like what marginal rates should be.

This is akin to Obamacare threads where you can say covering pre-existing conditions is a good/bad thing without needing to speak to whether “single payer” is good or not. SALT and pre-existing conditions are both subjects that can be discussed independently outside the big picture framework of tax policy or health policy.
 
Jan 12, 2005
14,924
2,465
126
#89
I am your average working middle class stiff. I am keeping more of the money I earn today because of Trump's tax cuts. The tax cuts (among other things Trump has done) have directly influenced and improved consumer confidence and spurred economic activity. The tax cuts have, in part, directly lead to a better economy. You guys whine about everything he does, the TDS is very strong here.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
5,250
21
126
#90
TIL that folks living in cities where parking spaces sell for more than most Americans make in lifetime and where median monthly rents are more than 3 times what the average retired American receives in Social Security (and annually tallies nearly the entire median pretax income of average Americans who still need to buy stuff like food and shelter once they pay taxes), these folks aren't rich and indeed consider themselves part of the beleaguered middle class deserving of having their more than $10k state tax bills subsidized by coal miners in Kentucky.
https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/
Kentucky is at the top of the list of states most dependent on Federal tax dollars. Kentucky gets more from Feds than they pay to Feds. California, Illinois, and East Coast on the other hand pay more in Fed taxes than they get back from them. Kentucky coal miners have never ever subsidized liberal bastions you complain so much about. It's the other way around. And instead of acknowledging that fact you're celebrating that in addition to subsidizing coal miners in Kentucky they also get to subsidize tax breaks for the 1%.
 
Jun 11, 2004
13,376
41
126
#91
Firmly entrenched in the middle class, both wife and I work full time jobs. In our 50's, own a home, all kids now grown, reduced withholdings to 1 and still owe $3500 in Federal income taxes. Up last year from $2000. Make $80k combined. Tax cuts were designed to hurt us the most and is doing so to us and millions of others in our situation.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
60,185
1,435
126
#92
You’ll notice your side are the only people who have been tying the cap of SALT to the rest of the Trump tax cuts. The rest of us have basically said limiting or eliminating SALT is the morally correct thing to do and have expressed no opinion about other tax subjects like what marginal rates should be.

This is akin to Obamacare threads where you can say covering pre-existing conditions is a good/bad thing without needing to speak to whether “single payer” is good or not. SALT and pre-existing conditions are both subjects that can be discussed independently outside the big picture framework of tax policy or health policy.
Yes we are all very sorry for discussing reality.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
60,185
1,435
126
#93
It’s been pretty funny to watch the Trump supporters freaking out because their tax returns are so much smaller than usual. Apparently in a desperation move to stem the catastrophic midterm losses they pressured the IRS to lower withholding from how they normally do it. So not only did that fail and they still got crushed in the midterms now people are even more pissed about their tax refunds.

I personally am impressed that they were able to take the most hated tax bill in history and somehow make it even more hated.
 
Nov 8, 2012
10,385
386
126
#94
https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/
Kentucky is at the top of the list of states most dependent on Federal tax dollars. Kentucky gets more from Feds than they pay to Feds. California, Illinois, and East Coast on the other hand pay more in Fed taxes than they get back from them. Kentucky coal miners have never ever subsidized liberal bastions you complain so much about. It's the other way around. And instead of acknowledging that fact you're celebrating that in addition to subsidizing coal miners in Kentucky they also get to subsidize tax breaks for the 1%.
That incredibly stupid concept has already been debunked. Just because a major corporation is headquartered in a large liberal state (e.g. CA, NY, IL) doesn't mean that every Federal tax dollars they paid was earned from income in those states.

Try again.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
60,185
1,435
126
#95
That incredibly stupid concept has already been debunked. Just because a major corporation is headquartered in a large liberal state (e.g. CA, NY, IL) doesn't mean that every Federal tax dollars they paid was earned from income in those states.

Try again.
Is your argument that liberal states do not net subsidize conservative ones? I hope not, because they definitely do.

The most economically competitive and productive regions in the country are in liberal states. Those areas create and attract lots of wealthy people, who pay lots of federal taxes. Red states have considerably less of these super competitive regions, which is why they are net takers.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
126
#96
Is your argument that liberal states do not net subsidize conservative ones? I hope not, because they definitely do.

The most economically competitive and productive regions in the country are in liberal states. Those areas create and attract lots of wealthy people, who pay lots of federal taxes. Red states have considerably less of these super competitive regions, which is why they are net takers.
That’s stupid because states aren’t homogenous lumps of undifferentiated humanity. Even inside states SALT means some working class stiff from Buffalo is having his federal taxes subsidize the state income tax of billionaires in NYC. And in NYC the immigrant working 3 jobs and barely paying rent is subsidizing the state taxes of his multi-millionaire landlord so he has some extra money to assure his kid doesn’t need to attend school with his brown skinned tennant’s kid. That’s the reality of SALT.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
1,319
126
#97
That’s stupid because states aren’t homogenous lumps of undifferentiated humanity. Even inside states SALT means some working class stiff from Buffalo is having his federal taxes subsidize the state income tax of billionaires in NYC. And in NYC the immigrant working 3 jobs and barely paying rent is subsidizing the state taxes of his multi-millionaire landlord so he has some extra money to assure his kid doesn’t need to attend school with his brown skinned tennant’s kid. That’s the reality of SALT.
SALT hasn't been cut significantly for business entities at all, like the landlords you're talking about. Depreciation allowances have been greatly enhanced, as well. Taken as a whole, the GOP tax plan is good for the ownership class & of little benefit to the 99%. It's actually detrimental in the long run because bigger deficits mean bigger debt maintenance expenditures & reduced purchasing power of taxes paid. It also means less will be available for all the things govt can do for the American people.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
126
#98
SALT hasn't been cut significantly for business entities at all, like the landlords you're talking about. Depreciation allowances have been greatly enhanced, as well. Taken as a whole, the GOP tax plan is good for the ownership class & of little benefit to the 99%. It's actually detrimental in the long run because bigger deficits mean bigger debt maintenance expenditures & reduced purchasing power of taxes paid. It also means less will be available for all the things govt can do for the American people.
A landlord is not a business entity. He may incorporate his rental business which may or may not be eligible for SALT tax deductions. But any salary or distributions he takes from the corporation Will be taxable income to him as individual and the subject to the SALT tax limits On his individual return.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
1,319
126
#99
A landlord is not a business entity. He may incorporate his rental business which may or may not be eligible for SALT tax deductions. But any salary or distributions he takes from the corporation Will be taxable income to him as individual and the subject to the SALT tax limits On his individual return.
So, if SALT is eliminated for individuals & only business can use it then the tipping point between buying & renting would shift towards renting. Forever, of course.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
126
So, if SALT is eliminated for individuals & only business can use it then the tipping point between buying & renting would shift towards renting. Forever, of course.
Corporations and individuals have different tax laws and get different kinds of deductions, this is not new. Indiduals pay taxes on income, corporations on net profits. Corporations can’t take the $20k standard deduction which only individuals can, and individuals may be able to take less SALT deductions. Corporations get to write off depreciation on their houses which individuals cannot, but individuals don’t need to collect and remit sales taxes from customers. That’s how it goes.
 

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