Where's that emoticon I saw that just stopped, looked at the post, blinked, did a double take, and then KEELED OVER AND STARTED ROLLING WITH LAUGHTER!
Where's that emoticon I saw that just stopped, looked at the post, blinked, did a double take, and then KEELED OVER AND STARTED ROLLING WITH LAUGHTER!
You're welcome to be an ascetic and move to some mountaintop, but you must realize that most of us are quite content with the economic freedom and consumer choice we have.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
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This is something I can't quite grasp. If we have more cash outgoing than incomming we're doing well? I know Asia and Mexico is an oder of magitude richer than they were 30 years ago due to mainly us giving them money for goods. We don't seem to have that much growth here. Soem say the standard of living has fallen which is why more two parent homes are required to make ends meat. I really want to understand this if it's too complicated to expain on a bbs please point me to a reference. Book or net Thanks
The best way would be to look at an intro macroeconomics textbook. There are lots of good ones. Samuelson and Nordhaus is popular, so is Stiglitz. Texts at this level only assume that you know algebra and no econ. I don't know of any good non-academic references. I'm sure there are some, but you might as well just go for the textbook since it would give you a lot more info. If you want more details in a book that is still accessible you could try Blanchard's Macroeconomics.
sanitation, medicine, transportation, education, information exchange
Access to those requires being a player in the game. We can pull out anytime, but like a crack baby growing up, we have an almost pathological urge for that material fix. How many people know how to not to chase what they want, but rather to "want what you've got", if you don't mind me quoting some song that slips me.
Anyway would anyone would admit it to themself and have to face something so hard, such a drastic change in everything they know. The same way a smoker pushes all those thoughts of how much he is destroying is body into the back of his mind and loses himself in his current cigarette. Actually, if you're such a person you might be pretty lucky, it seems like a lot of people have no capacity to do anything other than buy buy buy and still need more.
I sit here thinking all of this and I still can't kill my TV.
Access to those requires being a player in the game. We can pull out anytime, but like a crack baby growing up, we have an almost pathological urge for that material fix. How many people know how to not to chase what they want, but rather to "want what you've got", if you don't mind me quoting some song that slips me.
Anyway would anyone would admit it to themself and have to face something so hard, such a drastic change in everything they know. The same way a smoker pushes all those thoughts of how much he is destroying is body into the back of his mind and loses himself in his current cigarette. Actually, if you're such a person you might be pretty lucky, it seems like a lot of people have no capacity to do anything other than buy buy buy and still need more.
I sit here thinking all of this and I still can't kill my TV.
So what exactly do you want? Or what do you want to want? I don't get it. Are you looking for some entirely new model for civilization? If having sanitation, medicine, education, transportation, information exchange, economic opportunity, civil liberties, etc. requires me to be a "player in the game," it sounds like a pretty worthwhile game to me.
Yeah, I majored in econ and I still don't know anythingOriginally posted by: CarbonylThanks, I did take macro and micro, accounting 1 and 2 in school but switched to biochem casue I was'nt learning anything
Blanchard would be good then. It's interesting enough and has enough colors that you can almost pretend it's not an econ textbook. Almost.
Well, I don't believe at all that anyone is really content. Depression is such a growing problem. How well do we really do in our relations with other people? Even still, how could anyone know what they're missing? How content that cigarette smoker iswith his habit, and compare that to what he tells himself? Now imagine that it's not just a habit but an entire way of life that is the only way the individual knows?
I think simply corporate entities should not be legally considered people. Corporate control has outgrown the government, which was one of the things the founders of the United States were trying to avoid.
Actually, they wanted the government to mess with as little as possible. Corporations have to pay taxes and are subject to the law just like a natural person. The separation of risk from the individual is what makes the modern economy possible.
yeah, i'm not so sure that corporate control has outgrown the government. That government of ours sure has a lot of power
You know, consumerism is actually what makes money, not savings. Basic economic lesson for all of you. The vast majority of money in the US (or the world for that matter) comes from the same money being passed around (ie, spent). The current economic problems stem from the fact that people are unsure of the market and the world in general and they are spending less than they used to. People are worried that they will loose all their money, so they are trying to save what little they have. Money in the bank does no one any good at all. If people are not spending money, the amount of money will fall a huge amount. Here's a simple example.
I want to spend $1000 on a computer.
I buy a Dell, Dell takes that $1000 and puts it in Bank A
Banks can loan out a certain percent of their money, the rest must be kept in reserve by law (let's say around 90% can be spent).
Bank B makes a loan to Bob for $900 to buy another computer
Bob buys a Compaq, Compaq puts that $900 in Bank B
There is a formula for all of this, but I don't remember it and am too lazy to look it up. But once you work it all the way out you end up with a large amount of money in each bank. In my example, Dell has $1000 in their account with Bank A and Compaq has $900 in their account with Bank B. That's a total of $1900 from just $1000 that I spent, and I only worked it out a couple of steps. If I had saved my money, I would have taken $900 out of the system, not a good thing.
Face it, the whole world works this way. And the system works because people spend money. Money is only good if it is spent, money in a shoebox under a bed is worthless (at least to the economy). So learn some economics before spouting off about how capitalism is going to destroy the west.
Edit: Hey, you're from Berkeley, that explains it. That whole place is one big "Western civilization is evil" love fest.
I want to spend $1000 on a computer.
I buy a Dell, Dell takes that $1000 and puts it in Bank A
Banks can loan out a certain percent of their money, the rest must be kept in reserve by law (let's say around 90% can be spent).
Bank B makes a loan to Bob for $900 to buy another computer
Bob buys a Compaq, Compaq puts that $900 in Bank B
There is a formula for all of this, but I don't remember it and am too lazy to look it up. But once you work it all the way out you end up with a large amount of money in each bank. In my example, Dell has $1000 in their account with Bank A and Compaq has $900 in their account with Bank B. That's a total of $1900 from just $1000 that I spent, and I only worked it out a couple of steps. If I had saved my money, I would have taken $900 out of the system, not a good thing.
Face it, the whole world works this way. And the system works because people spend money. Money is only good if it is spent, money in a shoebox under a bed is worthless (at least to the economy). So learn some economics before spouting off about how capitalism is going to destroy the west.
Edit: Hey, you're from Berkeley, that explains it. That whole place is one big "Western civilization is evil" love fest.
That's macro101 on how the money supply works. Investment is what drives economic growth in the medium and long run.
So corporate interests don't play a role in politics? What about all the money that's channeled to politicians from big industries? How much is the good of the people considered, and how much of a voice do we have in what's going on?
A coporation is not like a natural person, because it's power and subsequent capacity to command interest in it's favor is so much greater.
A coporation is not like a natural person, because it's power and subsequent capacity to command interest in it's favor is so much greater.
The good of the people is considered because they can vote and organize. Corporations are minorities of one and they cannot vote. It is so much more difficult for them to get heard then the voters, therefore they need to use the one tool they have, money, to make themselves heard.
People are the only minority. The media, the government, the corporations, are all linked through fat pipelines of money.
Culture is on a tread-mill, and no one seems to be breaking a sweat. We're just recycling and rearranging, depicting what we see, reinterpreting our journey to nowhere.
Free to vote and organize...yeah, but no one will, because from childhood the way we think is controlled through the information channels we plug into.
Culture is on a tread-mill, and no one seems to be breaking a sweat. We're just recycling and rearranging, depicting what we see, reinterpreting our journey to nowhere.
Free to vote and organize...yeah, but no one will, because from childhood the way we think is controlled through the information channels we plug into.
The word "decadence" is being tossed around more in the media. This word means "getting worse" yet the media never explains what is getting worse. Sprituality on the decline? Ethics? Income? They leave it vague to promote a wide sense of depression and dred. But why? Election year, right?
If you look at the reality of the world today, it's still in great shape. There is and always will be room for improvement but why see things from the "glass half empty" perspective? It just promotes apathy and that will certainly lead us down a dark road.
Cheer up, people! It's not like religion has evaporated and we're all spiritually defunct. It's not like we lose a skyscraper every week. It's not like every multi-billion dollar corporation is an Enron. It's not like every politician is on the take....well actually that's a bad example.
On the whole America is humming along quite nicely and I don't see this mysterious, all-encompassing decadence at all, just a few black spots that need polish.
If you look at the reality of the world today, it's still in great shape. There is and always will be room for improvement but why see things from the "glass half empty" perspective? It just promotes apathy and that will certainly lead us down a dark road.
Cheer up, people! It's not like religion has evaporated and we're all spiritually defunct. It's not like we lose a skyscraper every week. It's not like every multi-billion dollar corporation is an Enron. It's not like every politician is on the take....well actually that's a bad example.
On the whole America is humming along quite nicely and I don't see this mysterious, all-encompassing decadence at all, just a few black spots that need polish.
Neither the Ds nor Rs will do that because it equals votes. Also, there's very little public outcry over government waste. To me it's inconceivable that people blindly give the government free reign to spend their money with little or no accountability.
I don't know at what point people will wake up. We're taxed now, on average, about 45-60% of our income when you factor in everything. Will people get a clue when the aggregate tax burden is 70%? 80%? When each tax dollor only returns 40 cents worth of value? When it returns 30 cents? 20 cents?
It will not return to balance until a fair tax system is implemented. As long as the bottom 50% of tax earners pay ~4% of the fed tax bill and the upper 50% pays ~96% of the tax bill, the bottom 1/2 will continue to vote to take money away from the upper 50%.
I vote every year for fiscal conservatives...but not enough of them make it to DC.
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