How to register all Guns....

[67gt500]

... but dont give me any hooplah about it being significant resistance.

oh but it would be. our citizens armed with todays technology may not put up the same fight as our military but we would have far greater numbers than any invading body.

 

[Doboji]

<< protect the rest of you as you fled to canada... again. >>



Now this I find out of line and insulting.... because I disagree with you doesnt warrant you blatantly insulting my loyalty to the united states. I don't need to own a firearm to be a patriot... and I assure you that were it to come to that... I would fight and die if necessary for my country....

So don't even go there spewing crap about how just because I support gun legislature I am unpatriotic... I love my country... and I find those comments deeply insulting.

-Max

 

[67gt500]

Someone's always got a bigger and badder weapon. If you want to potentially resist invaders, go ahead - but you'll need a lot more than just guns, that's for sure.

of course, and I wouldn't ever argue differently. However, an armed society with the training to use arms would be far better with today's technology than a flock of people like the Brits or Canadians who would throw the gun at the approaching enemy.

 

[Doboji]

15 million disorganized pockets of resistance... poorly armed... and without unified intelligence communication or leadership.

vs.

there are 1 Billion chinese... they could committ 100million men without blinking....

I feel like a broken record... our advantage is in technology not in manpower...

-Max

 

[67gt500]

So don't even go there spewing crap about how just because I support gun legislature I am unpatriotic... I love my country... and I find those comments deeply insulting.

well then if you so love your country you wouldn't be proposing legislature which molests the bill of rights.

 

[GL]

You're undermining your own argument. You're saying you need today's technology. Well today's technology has far outshined 95% of the guns in the U.S., which is what I'm trying to get at. I'm certain a militia, even trained on the weekend, would have a fighting chance if they had the same military weapons at their disposal. But you need a heck more than guns which you seem to agree with. And as of now, it is illegal or impossible to own that &quot;heck of a lot&quot; that you need.

 

[67gt500]

I feel like a broken record... our advantage is in technology not in manpower...

I said at least 15 million given rough estimates of die hards. With a population of 300 million IT IS ANYONES guess as to how many would flee to canada or attempt a swim to africa.

And it would also be fair estimate that any invasion of the US would be an invasion of north american so canadian and central american resistance would also exist.

 

[67gt500]

You're undermining your own argument. You're saying you need today's technology. Well today's technology has far outshined 95% of the guns in the U.S., which is what I'm trying to get at. I'm certain a militia, even trained on the weekend, would have a fighting chance if they had the same military weapons at their disposal. But you need a heck more than guns which you seem to agree with. And as of now, it is illegal or impossible to own that &quot;heck of a lot&quot; that you need.

where have I singled out guns? and where does the 2nd ammendment specify guns?

 

[Doboji]

molest the bill of rights?... what crack are you smoking... I support the right to bear arms... I suggest reasonable... common sense gun legislature.... Things like gun safety classes.... and yes gun registration, not to take the guns but to assist law enforcement. Come come now... where does it say in the Bill of rights... thou shalt not seek to prevent gun violence?... it says thou shalt have the right to bear arms... so go ahead... own your friggin arms.. but be careful about it.. and lets make sure people dont abuse that right.

You're really getting low down and dirty now... calling me unpatriotic... sheesh.... makes me mad... fuming mad.... if I had a handgun right now... I'd... hey wait... isnt there a gun show near here?.... yeah!.... where do you lie again?

-Max

 

[Doboji]

ok I'm bowing out of this argument because it's just getting silly... GL and I have both presented a hundred arguments explaining why even if you had 50 million men armed with assault rifles.... there'd be absolutely no hope of holding off any military capable of destroying the US military.... there is no ifs ands and buts about it.... dream on buddy... dream on!..

Anyway.. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation... and I wish you luck holding off the chinese... while I &quot;swim to africa&quot;....

-Max

 

[GL]

Well you better go to court to see to it that the 2nd ammendment includes the right to bear ICBMs, plastic explosives, military-grade electronic equipment, etc. Because right now, those are all illegal to own. Weapons evolve; guns as a military weapon are almost obsolete - they will soon suffer the same fate as the rock, stick and bow &amp; arrow. So the argument that you need them for national defense is...well, practically obsolete.

 

[67gt500]

molest the bill of rights?... what crack are you smoking... I support the right to bear arms... I suggest reasonable... common sense gun legislature.... Things like gun safety classes.... and yes gun registration, not to take the guns but to assist law enforcement.

if you look at the entire ammendment there is that little part at the end that says 'shall not be infringed.' Now if I have to go out and register mine, and obviously pay some sort of free if this will be a similar setup to car registrations.. how is this anything but infringement?

Come come now... where does it say in the Bill of rights... thou shalt not seek to prevent gun violence?...

It doesn't, nor does it say thou shalt seek to prevent gun violence.

it says thou shalt have the right to bear arms...

it says that you will have the right, and that right will not be infringed. Were you aware of this?


so go ahead... own your friggin arms.. but be careful about it.. and lets make sure people dont abuse that right.

I'm all for preventing criminals from owning firearms. But just what makes you think that john doe is going to register that piece before he goes and robs the liquor store? It just makes no sense.


You're really getting low down and dirty now... calling me unpatriotic

Where, oh where, did I ever call you unpatriotic.

 

[Quaggoth]

OK dude, if our military got up and walked away one day, yes, my 40cal USP and semi-auto 12gauge wouldn't put up too much of a fight. BUT, picture WWIII. Nobody has hit the button yet, the war has been going on for 20 years and WE are loosing because the rest of the US hating world has ganged up on us. The rest of the world is suffering too, and they finally invade. You don't think we could put up any real resistance? Think again dude. It would be completely defencive and guerilla, but we would put up a hell of a fight. It's the people like you who give up BEFORE the fight that would cost us the most lives.

 

[HansHurt]

However, an armed society with the training to use arms would be far better with today's technology than a flock of people like the Brits or Canadians who would throw the gun at the approaching enemy.


Now hold on a sec. there buddy...keep this in your own country.


&quot;Throw the gun at the enemy&quot;....lol, funny visuals there.....But not true.

 

[GL]

Besides, the U.S. will be invaded on the economic front, not on the battlefield, but that's just a logical guess I'm bowing out too, time to head home.

 

[XMan]

Hmm.

The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so. Indeed I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order.&quot;

Adolf Hitler, April 11, 1942

'nuff said.

 

[67gt500]

ok I'm bowing out of this argument because it's just getting silly...


Then I'll summarize. An armed society is a far greater threat than an unarmed society. An armed society with the ability to function with and around arms would have a far greater chance of utilizing todays technology against a ground invasion.

I would never argue that an army of 500 men with 22s could fend off a chinese military with m16s.

An army of citizens armed with m16s could perhaps fend off a chinese military with m16s.

Take away this citizens right to bear arms completely, and we will end up with a generation that has no ability and no know-how to function with weaponry.

I'm not advocating for training our citizens how to fly f16s. ... I'm simply saying that a citizenry with knowledge of weaponry and how to use it will have a far greater chance of succeeding with anti tank weaponry and other advanced technology of today.


If you don't like this argument then I'll just point at the second ammendment which is very clear when it points out that the right to bear arms (not just guns) shall not be infringed.

Perhaps it is convenient to bypass certain ammendments or to change them to meet todays standards... this is when the country is most vulnerable.

 

[HansHurt]

Quoting Hitler are we?



Of course a population w/ arms is harder to overthrow and secure. But in the end, all it does is make the occupying force have to work a little harder or be a little more brutal in their occupation efforts.

 

[DefRef]

One thing I forgot to mention in my trip to &quot;militia country&quot; was when I got my handgun, I put the money down on it and then called my local police dept. to get the permit to purchase it.

Since the PD only took permit applications on certain days and times (like Mondays and Thursdays from 1:07-1:13 p.m.), I had to wait TWO MONTHS just to apply for the permit! Since I was going to get a hunting/target CCW, they ran my prints for those at the same time. The cop was telling me the street cops generally supported shall-issue laws for CCWs, but that the chiefs who were against it were more politicians than cops.

A few days later I picked up my permit, bought the gun and then had to take it back to them to have the serial numbers taken down and the piece &quot;inspected&quot;.

It took me about 8 weeks and I can't remember how many dollars to LEGALLY purchase a gun. Or...I could've gone down into the city and bought one for $50-$100 that night.

A woman was murder/suicided by her estranged husband recently at her work. She had a restraining order against him. A lot of good it did her. She needed a gun! Why do so-called feminists insist that women be prevented from defending themselves? I know that waiting periods are meant to keep some hothead from running into a gun shop to buy a gun to shoot the guy who just cut him off in a parking lot, but the same wait times are preventing people from defending themselves against predators. If some guy calls you and says, &quot;I'm getting out of jail and I'm coming to kill you for ratting me out.&quot;, the only paperwork you'll need to fill out is your WILL.

Laws only control the LAW-ABIDING. That's why they keep piling them on. To provide the illusion of security in exchange for the real loss of freedom is the government's scam. Don't be so willing to accept it.

 

[GL]

Ughh..one final note. There's a reason why Adolf didn't outlaw knives. Because they were re completely useless weapons compared to what he had. As of WWII, guns still offered quite a means of defense although they would offer more of a nuisance and hinderance than an obstacle. If you're intent on saving your country from impending military doom, stock up on _real_ weapons (i.e. that can hold their own against militaries).

 

[Quaggoth]

I wish I could have made this statement before those two GAVE UP! but, what about 5 million snipers? What would that do to the invading armies?

 

[67gt500]

Since the PD only took permit applications on certain days and times (like Mondays and Thursdays from 1:07-1:13 p.m.),

..lol

 

[Doboji]

Ok really bowing out after this... but I hafto address the stupidity that declares that because I support gun legislature that DOES NOT I repeat DOES NOT mean I am some how a traitor... and how dare you accuse me of such.... it's insulting... stupid... and immature. I have the right to disagree with you without being called a traitor... unpatriotic... or spewing bullsh... about how I'm going to be responsible for the loss of life later.

You don't see me dropping the responsibility of all those killed accidentaly with guns on your head do you?.... so why would you insult me as such....

-Max

 

[67gt500]

I wish I could have made this statement before those two GAVE UP! but, what about 5 million snipers? What would that do to the invading armies?

they are probably still reading..

any ground invasion would be met by a fierce resistance. One would assume that most of the oppositions air fleets had been destroyed by our military before we faded.. and any serious invasion would have to come by ground. They thought I was saying that our people armed with just guns could fend off tanks and trained military. But in reality it would be our citizens armed with todays technology and some of todays know-how because they haven't been subjected to a ban on guns like the australians or british.

 

[XMan]

You don't think we could put up any real resistance? Think again dude. It would be completely defencive and guerilla, but we would put up a hell of a fight. It's the people like you who give up BEFORE the fight that would cost us the most lives.


That's why I brought it up. We haven't been conquered, but certain parties in the gov't certainly want to make sure we aren't able to defend ourselves, aren't they?

Here's another tidbit . . .

Our Bill of Rights does not grant rights, it preserves and guarantees pre-existing individual rights. How do we know this? The Ninth Amendment states:

&quot;The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.&quot;

In other words, we have other rights beyond what is expressly stated in the Constitution, and the federal government is not justified in denying us those rights.

FYI - guns are used in self defense approximately two million times a year.

(Source: Gary, Kleck and Marc Gertz, &quot;Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun,&quot; Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.)