How to register all Guns....

[Pliablemoose]

Another gun thread...

I just got done with the range time to qualify for my Texas CCW, shot a 245 out of a possible 250.

Carried before, now I'm a little more legit, face it, guns are with us for a long time, won't be till we're under a one world government that they're taken away, registration is the first step.

We're slowly letting our constitutional rights slip away, next noise you hear will be the bleating of sheep as we're all turning into a nation of them.

Freedom of religion, yep, just can't practice it on public property you pay for

Freedom of movement, yep, just show some your driver's license whenever asked

Freedom of choice, yep, we've got all 2 crappy political parties

Freedom of speech, yep, say the wrong word @ work & you're fired, in your yard & you're sued

Right to bear arms, yep, just register your gun here

 

[Doboji]

lets get one thing clear.... freedom is not clear.

There are really 2 distinct forms of freedom... freedom to, and freedom from.

Freedom to allows us to do things that we want when we want and where we want.. so long as they don't infringe on the freedom of others.

Freedom from allows us to practice our freedom to without being infringed upon by others.

It is a very delicate balance, and it cannot be looked at as a black or white issue.

For example:

We have the freedom to drive our cars where we want. But we cannot travel as fast as we want because it is dangerous and potentially infringes on others right to life. Same thing with drinking and driving. The reason we cannot simply walk up to someone and take what we want is the freedom from. As we have the freedom from our belongings being stolen.



<< Freedom of religion, yep, just can't practice it on public property you pay for >>


This is an issue because in many settings such as a classroom, an individual has the power to infringe on another persons religious freedom. For example as a Jew when my teacher in 5th grade began teaching about Jesus in class, I was very confused. As a 5th grader I did not understand what was happening... but when I raised my hand and said I didn't believe in jesus... I was snickered at, and the teacher kindly informed me that I must accept Jesus or I was going to go to hell. This type of behavior is unacceptable.

Now I know that what you're talking about is nothing to this extreme... but like the gun issue.. it's an issue of a slippery slope. we must be extra careful not to infringe on the rights of others.

As for the gun debate... it is this very freedom that is at the center of the discussion. The question is... do Guns infringe on freedom or do they grant freedom. Some people say the former, some the latter. Noone here is out to destroy the tradition of freedom in this country. Quite the contrary... the discussion is merely about how to best preserve it.

-Max

 

[67gt500]

The government is going to break into the NRA steal the database, and then proceede to roll from house to house confiscating guns?.... oh puleeeze...

those who ignore and dismiss history are bound to repeat it.

you think that because this is the 21st century and the 'information age' that governmental intrusion is not possible? You think that civil wars are inevitable because we are civilized? The romans thought they were civilized and invincible.


Our right to bear arms is our guarantee that an invasion by a foreign body is not ever possible without the most dire consequences.

 

[Doboji]

<< Our right to bear arms is our guarantee that an invasion by a foreign body is not ever possible without the most dire consequences. >>



No the army, navy, air force, and marines are our guarantee. Maybe when the constitution was written it offered a viable defense.... but now... Arms provide different benefits.... the ability to protect ones home, recreation, and the ability to deter crime.

That doesnt mean that Arms are no longer valuable... I believe in gn ownership... I'm even considering buying one... but lets not fool ourselves. If the government were willing to go to the process of attempting to confiscate guns... don't you think that the NRA membership database would be enough?....


-Max

 

[67gt500]

No the army, navy, air force, and marines are our guarantee. Maybe when the constitution was written it offered a viable defense.... but now... Arms provide different benefits.... the ability to protect ones home, recreation, and the ability to deter crime.

And in the event that we engage in another world war? Or in the event that we face both Russia or China and numerous middle eastern countries as a single opposition?

Are you that naive that you see it as a complete impossibility that we are ever invaded?

If you were a military dictator of some sort in and you had to choose between invading an armed society and invading a non armed society which would you choose?

 

[GL]

I'd invade the armed society, and simply walk into the unarmed society Unfortunately guns aren't a match for fully trained infantry units supported by armored vehicles, airplanes, etc. Just trying to put things into perspective here, I'm not against the ownership of all firearms. For greedy invaders, the concept of &quot;or&quot; holds no value - but &quot;and&quot; does.

 

[Doboji]

If I was a dictator with the strength to defeat the United States military, I don't think I'd be too concerned with a few armed citzens... I assure you that no civillian opposition can succeed where our military has failed.

Do the math.... If China was to go to war with us.... and win... think about china's way of waging war... there are 1 billion of them... they could march on us with spears and swords... and we'd lose... the onlything stopping them is true modern warfare... nuclear weapons... depleted uranium... the F16... the F117...

The idea of US citzens defending against a foreign invasion with firearms is a little boy fantasy... I know I saw red dawn.... fun movie... and a fun fantasy... but far from a reality.

-Max

 

[67gt500]

too concerned with a few armed citzens... I assure you that no civillian opposition can succeed where our military has failed.

War of 1812.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Doboji, when I step out of the ER I work in on a calm cool summer night, for a break from the blood, gore &amp; suffering, I get to hear the gentle sounds of small weapons fire in the background. I pick up slugs (the lead from bullets) in our paring lot.

The people shooting mostly members of their own race aren't going to register their guns. The people who will register their guns, as they do in some areas are law abiding citizens.

The issues involved in violence are not so simple as to be resolved by a database, it'll take one hell of a lot of money, and it has to come from someone's paycheck. How much or your hard earned cash are you willing to cough up? 50-60-75% of your check?

For a number of years, guns have been traceable to a point (through some legal and some not so strictly legal methods) manufacturers turn over serial numbers, and test fired slugs from each weapon.

I suspect that the NRA would never agree to a registration scheme of any kind, and your idea is dead in the water.

 

[GL]

But this is 2001. Back in 1812 an armed citizen was on par with an armed soldier. Can't say the same about today unless perhaps you happen to have an inside on some grey market Russian artillery pieces and equipment

 

[67gt500]

But this is 2001. Back in 1812 an armed citizen was on par with an armed soldier. Can't say the same about today unless perhaps you happen to have an inside on some grey market Russian artillery pieces and equipment

On par with an armed soldier? You mean despite the training, survival skills, organization, nice weaponry?

You can go ahead and dismiss this countries history. Like I said earlier, those who forget are bound to repeat. And those who have forgotten and did repeat were making the same arguments that you have made

 

[GL]

Dude I'm not saying don't ensure there is a way to protect your home from invasion of foreign menaces. But for goodness sakes if you think being a weekend shooter with a couple of rifles in your basement will make you anything more than cannon fodder in modern day battle, I'm not sure what to say. We've developed full-time militaries to pick up where militias left off. Same concept, better implementation for today's scenarios.

 

[JohnnyKnoxville]

I support the right to arm bears

 

[GL]

Any real weaponry that would allow your average American to fight back their own government let alone foreign forces is illegal/impractical-to-own anyway - go try making your own nuclear bombs, or guided missiles, or launching your own military-grade satellite. You couldn't even flee into the forests without them tracking you from far above. 19th century soldiers couldn't fight in urban warfare, thus levelling the field for gun owners. Not so today.

 

[Doboji]

Pliable where the hell do you live? the West Bank?....

Noone suggested that registering guns would magically make all crime go away...

Solving the problem of violent crime is a process that goes way beyond the registration of guns... it has to do with education reform, social reform, and a whole slew of other &quot;socialist&quot; programs.... all of which require mucho deniro.

I'm not hear suggesting how to solve all of our nations problems... I would be a fool to assume that I knew how. I started this as a thread to offer one way of improving our society just a little bit... and despite what you are saying... the dillema of tracing guns used illegaly is still very much an issue.

My goal here is to produce a solution that does not tread on the rights of gun owners while attempting to reduce gun violence, and the aquisition of illegal firearms intended for criminal usage.

Would I pay 75% of my paycheck.... yes perhaps I would.... but I think thats a bit too much... as it would discourage my ambition... see my threads discussing socialism.



<< War of 1812. >>



LOL.... ROLFMAO.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!.....

all I hafta say here is imagine one M1A2 Abrams during the war of 1812.....

-Max

 

[67gt500]

GL i'm simply offering another argument to support the 2nd ammendment. I don't think that our armed society can entirely defend a land and air invasion.. I'm just saying as I mentioned earlier that any attempt will be met with dire consequences.

Meaning the cost of taking this country may be too great for some.

.. and I hate to bring up comparisons but what if the Jewish people HAD maintained arms during WWII. And HAD been able to offer some sort of resistance... I know that is a stretch but it makes you think... it also brings reminder as to why germans were dea-armed... they feared any internal backlash.

 

[Doboji]

<< You can go ahead and dismiss this countries history. Like I said earlier, those who forget are bound to repeat. And those who have forgotten and did repeat were making the same arguments that you have made. >>



reality check.... F-16 vs.... 500 guys with M-16s.... = 500 dead guys

reality check.... The Chinese have the equivalent of thousands of F-16s....

reality check...

1million chinese with spears vs. 500 americans armed with assault rifles

10 thousand dead chinese...?? generous estimate... and 500 dead americans...

C'mmon man wake up!

-Max

 

[Quaggoth]

>>The idea of US citzens defending against a foreign invasion with firearms is a little boy >>fantasy... I know I saw red dawn.... fun movie... and a fun fantasy... but far from a reality.

I would DIE making that a reality dumbass.

 

[67gt500]

LOL.... ROLFMAO.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!.....

all I hafta say here is imagine one M1A2 Abrams during the war of 1812.....

Unless the soviets have stolen our tank designs I'm not sure that we will be seeing any abrams.

you've neglected my point.. almost obviously.

 

[67gt500]

I would DIE making that a reality dumbass.

as would I, and millions of other americans. Which is why I don't like being compared to a little boy with a fantasy or being laughed at.

 

[GL]

All I'm trying to say is go own your firearms (preferably rifles and shotguns...I personally have a distaste for handguns, but that's another issue). Your own valid reasons for owning them are because they are a hobby, hunting, they are for personal protection, etc. All of those reasons are perfectly acceptable under the law and always should be. Owning guns for defense of one's country is laughable in today's circumstances.

 

[67gt500]

Doboji,

The NRA alone has an established member base of 4 million. This doesn't even include the die hards that can't afford the 35 dollar membership.

It would be safe to assume that there would be at least 15 million americans willing to defend against an invasion and protect the rest of you as you fled to canada... again.

 

[Doboji]

<< and I hate to bring up comparisons but what if the Jewish people HAD maintained arms during WWII. And HAD been able to offer some sort of resistance... I know that is a stretch but it makes you think... it also brings reminder as to why germans were dea-armed... they feared any internal backlash. >>



Actually there were pockets of Jewish resistance who armed themselves... some examples of this are the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
And indeed firearms played a wonderful role in allowing the Jews to kill a few Germans before going off into the great night. And I guess that makes us(I am jewish) feel good that my brethren put up some form of a fight... but in reality it made little difference to the Germans.
So if you want to say that we can at least go out fighting... then fine... I support that argument... but dont give me any hooplah about it being significant resistance.

-Max

 

[67gt500]

Owning guns for defense of one's country is laughable in today's circumstances.

Then I guess we are two different breeds. Laugh at my stance on the issue all you would like. It is my stance, I will die for this country anyday of the week.. I will not flee at the sign of controversy, I will stand and fight.

And if it helps you any the idea would be that our military would have been defeated LONG before domestic supplies were squelched. Meaning that we wouldn't be hidden in forests with pellet guns. We'd have the technology of today in the hands of regular citizens.

 

[GL]

I'm sure guns were useful to Jews trying to flee. But they'd be part of a futile effort to resist invaders. Someone's always got a bigger and badder weapon. If you want to potentially resist invaders, go ahead - but you'll need a lot more than just guns, that's for sure.