How to move forward with compromise

[hal2kilo]

Not exactly clairvoyance but PJ's original post is the most likely path to passing a debt ceiling bill. After all (prior to the last decade or so) that's the way bills have usually become laws.

However evern assuming Congress pulls a last minute settlement, a lot of damage has already been done to the confidence in the dollar, thus weakening our recovery further.

Yeap, but that's been the plan along. See what Obama did. Just ask Mitch.

 

[Jhhnn]

You are a broken record...

House passed a bill, Senate has yet to pass one. Obama has yet to present one.


When the questions start to fly the GOP can answer:
"We passed a bill, the Senate Democrats have yet to pass one and the President has not even offered up a plan in writing. The Republicans only control one third of the elected bodies of government and that third is the only one to have passed anything. At this point the Democrats need to come up with a plan that can pass and then we can move forward."

Desperate obfuscation mixed with blatant falsehoods. Why am I not surprised?

 

[theeedude]

GOP is forgetting that even when Clinton outright vetoed the bill they passed in 95, they still got the blame for the shutdown. Now they are going to be the ones filibustering Reid bill in the Senate. They have no chance. Cut a deal now, or cut a much worse deal during the actual shutdown, when they are going to get blamed for tanking the market and causing pain to voters.

 

[Jhhnn]

GOP is forgetting that even when Clinton outright vetoed the bill they passed in 95, they still got the blame for the shutdown. Now they are going to be the ones filibustering Reid bill in the Senate. They have no chance. Cut a deal now, or cut a much worse deal during the actual shutdown, when they are going to get blamed for tanking the market and causing pain to voters.

Like I've offered all along- make 'em own it. How they've managed to avoid owning the whole shitty economy in the wake of their own disastrous policy of the Bush years is a tribute to the stupidity of the populace. I suppose none of it matters to those who act on ignorance, faith & indoctrination, but they're still a minority, I hope...

 

[Engineer]

Like I've offered all along- make 'em own it. How they've managed to avoid owning the whole shitty economy in the wake of their own disastrous policy of the Bush years is a tribute to the stupidity of the populace. I suppose none of it matters to those who act on ignorance, faith & indoctrination, but they're still a minority, I hope...

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1624

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I thought it pretty well known that 'pandering' to the other side (Dems in this case) to get a coalition was political suicide for a Speaker.

If so, he had no other option.

Fern

That is exactly the problem, the comprimize thats necessary for America would be bad for Boehner. And of course Boehner values his career more than he values America. The situation required Boehner to take one for the team and have faith that doing the right thing would weight in his favor in the end, but he disregarded this and tied his future to the coatails of the tea party.

He was given an opportunity to lead but all he knows how to do is follow, and those he chose to follow will lead him straight to the gallows.

 

[woolfe9999]

The political theater is starting to become amusing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43949638/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

McConnell refuses to negotiate with Reid, says he wants to go directly to Obama.

Reid and Senate dems hold press conference last night blasting McConnell for refusing to negotiate.

Late today McConnell comes out to the Senate floor and says he is nearing a deal with Obama.

Reid, says, no you're aren't.

McConnell says, yes we are, neener neener neener.

Looks like Reid's ego is bruised here...

In other news, maybe there's going to be a grand bargain after all?

- wolf

 

[ProfJohn]

Do you have video of the "neener neener neener" part?


We should have taken the leaders of both chambers and Obama and placed them on an island with NO media coverage and they could have came up with a plan in a day or two.

The biggest obstacle in this whole thing is the 2012 elections and the fact that Obama is trying to use this to save his Presidency.

 

[Engineer]

The biggest obstacle in this whole thing is the 2012 elections and the fact that Obama is trying to use this to save his Presidency.

LOL. After Mitch McConJob stated that their primary purpose in life is to make sure that Obama wasn't re-elected in 2012, it's painfully obvious what the GOP are trying to do here.

Of course Obama is trying to get re-elected but to think that the GOP isn't angling to place all of the blame for this mess on him is dishonest to say the least.

 

[her209]

The biggest obstacle in this whole thing is the 2012 elections and the fact that Republicans are trying to use this to destroy Obama's chances of re-election.

Fixed that for you.

 

[woolfe9999]

Do you have video of the "neener neener neener" part?


We should have taken the leaders of both chambers and Obama and placed them on an island with NO media coverage and they could have came up with a plan in a day or two.

The biggest obstacle in this whole thing is the 2012 elections and the fact that Obama is trying to use this to save his Presidency.

Neener neener neener was a joke that describes my impression of the the tone of the exchange. I'm just amused by it.

I tend to think McConnell would not say they are close if he didn't think they were or the POTUS would go on TV and contradict him. Reid doesn't seem to want Obama to be the one to close the deal with the GOP because he probably wants credit for it and he's sore over McConnell blowing him off and going over his head.

So perhaps there's reason to be optimistic about a deal between Obama and McConnell but that doesn't guarentee that whatever it is will pass both houses.

- wolf

 

[Engineer]

Neener neener neener was a joke that describes my impression of the the tone of the exchange. I'm just amused by it.

I tend to think McConnell would not say they are close if he didn't think they were or the POTUS would go on TV and contradict him. Reid doesn't seem to want Obama to be the one to close the deal with the GOP because he probably wants credit for it and he's sore over McConnell blowing him off and going over his head.

So perhaps there's reason to be optimistic about a deal between Obama and McConnell but that doesn't guarentee that whatever it is will pass both houses.

- wolf

Considering that Obama "seemed" to be willing to take cuts on SS/Medicare/etc. and it didn't set will with Reid or the Democrats, I can see the possibility of Reid not feeling comfortable (i.e. pissed) at this whole situation.

 

[woolfe9999]

Considering that Obama "seemed" to be willing to take cuts on SS/Medicare/etc. and it didn't set will with Reid or the Democrats, I can see the possibility of Reid not feeling comfortable (i.e. pissed) at this whole situation.

Could be. It remains to be seen what the terms are. The way I see it, there is only one path on the issues where they *might* get enough votes in both houses. It's essentially Reid's bill, with ~2 trillion in cuts, but the cuts are all real, so not counting the war draw down as cuts. That suggests entitlement cuts as you say. And no balanced budget amendment, and debt ceiling increased to 2012. The votes on that are, in theory, all the dems except the progressive caucus, and all the reps except the tea baggers.

- wolf

 

[Engineer]

Could be. It remains to be seen what the terms are. The way I see it, there is only one path on the issues where they *might* get enough votes in both houses. It's essentially Reid's bill, with ~2 trillion in cuts, but the cuts are all real, so not counting the war draw down as cuts. That suggests entitlement cuts as you say. And no balanced budget amendment, and debt ceiling increased to 2012. The votes on that are, in theory, all the dems except the progressive caucus, and all the reps except the tea baggers.

- wolf

What's really sad about entitlement cuts is that they will force the current generations (i.e. me and below) to pay for the ready to retire (baby boomers) and already retired generations with no cuts to them while asking us to take one for the team. While it may be difficult to swallow, I don't see why everyone doesn't take one for the team, especially since many of the "soon" upcoming retirees paid in less, especially during the early part of their careers (before 80's SS tax hikes) than the rest of us will but they get what is essentially better and longer benefits.

 

[Jhhnn]

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1624

From the link-

Voters say 67 - 25 percent that an agreement to raise the debt ceiling should include tax hikes for the wealthy and corporations, not just spending cuts.

Meanwhile, Repubs are raving about "no new taxes!" as if they actually had some kind of support outside their looney base & their campaign financiers...

If they're willing to force default for that, quit sending out SS cheques, we'll know for sure that their "values" are in their bank accounts...

 

[woolfe9999]

What's really sad about entitlement cuts is that they will force the current generations (i.e. me and below) to pay for the ready to retire (baby boomers) and already retired generations with no cuts to them while asking us to take one for the team. While it may be difficult to swallow, I don't see why everyone doesn't take one for the team, especially since many of the "soon" upcoming retirees paid in less, especially during the early part of their careers (before 80's SS tax hikes) than the rest of us will but they get what is essentially better and longer benefits.

If they're going to raise the eligibility age for Medicare, it should apply to 60 and under, not 55 or 50 and under. That way people people who are very close to retirement right now and planning for it aren't screwed, but much of the baby boom generation (the 50-60) will share the burden with the under 50's.

 

[cubby1223]

ProJo's proposal-

"Start with a bucket 'o turds..."

Says the hyper-partisan Jhhnn. Believe it or not, whatever you choose, but the facts point to you being one of the extremists. Why do you call the legislation a "bucket 'o turds"? And you cannot say "because the Republicans crafted it". You have to be specific.

 

[Jhhnn]

What's really sad about entitlement cuts is that they will force the current generations (i.e. me and below) to pay for the ready to retire (baby boomers) and already retired generations with no cuts to them while asking us to take one for the team. While it may be difficult to swallow, I don't see why everyone doesn't take one for the team, especially since many of the "soon" upcoming retirees paid in less, especially during the early part of their careers (before 80's SS tax hikes) than the rest of us will but they get what is essentially better and longer benefits.

It's true that boomers were chumped by Ronnie & Greenspan to increase SS deductions, build the SS trust to its current $2.5T value. Honest efforts to "pay it forward" were squandered with top tier tax cuts, military spending and excessive borrowing to cover the ongoing destruction of trickledown economics. If the SS trust were the only federal debt, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and the true bush constituency wouldn't have nearly the economic & political clout they have today. None of this is an accident- republican conduct has been entirely willful every inch of the way.

 

[cubby1223]

We should have taken the leaders of both chambers and Obama and placed them on an island with NO media coverage and they could have came up with a plan in a day or two.

Pretty much how I see politics. I'd also say there needs to be a provision that no one can claim ownership of any part of the legislation, the bill is what it is.

 

[IronWing]

What a difference a few hours make. Just a short while ago ProfJohn was screaming that the tea party brand Republicans had to be appeased in order to get anything through the House, that Boehner could not reach across the aisle. Now that that tactic is dead and buried he rolls out his brand new idea that the tea party Republicans are simply unnecessary to the process of raising the debt limit, a point that has been true all along. The only thing that has to get done in the next couple days is that the debt limit has to be raised. All else is posturing.

 

[wuliheron]

The only thing that has to get done in the next couple days is that the debt limit has to be raised. All else is posturing.

Not just posturing, but a genuine family feud. The implosion of the republican party live on camera for all to watch.

 

[IronWing]

Says the hyper-partisan Jhhnn. Believe it or not, whatever you choose, but the facts point to you being one of the extremists. Why do you call the legislation a "bucket 'o turds"? And you cannot say "because the Republicans crafted it". You have to be specific.

I won't speak for Jhhnn but the so called "balanced budget amendment" section of the bill is actually a recipe for permanent minority control of the nation's finances, requiring a super majority to implement tax increases. This provision grants anti-tax voters more effective voting clout than allotted to other voters. The bill also creates exceptions for times of war, so that future Presidents could engage in foreign adventures without being held to the balanced budget requirements of the bill.

 

[ProfJohn]

And what exactly is wrong with having a balanced budget?

Seems to that just a couple of years ago the Democrats on this forum couldn't stop talking about how great it was when Clinton was President and the budget was balanced. But now that Obama is president a balanced budget is a bad thing.... Why?


And is your personal budget balanced? Or do you have to take our loans every month just to cover the grocery or power bill? How long would you last if you had to borrow 40% of your month bills just to survive.

 

[chowderhead]

possible deal has leaked out.
Debt ceiling increase of up to $2.8 trillion
Spending cuts of roughly $1 trillion
Vote on the Balanced Budget Amendment
Special committee to recommend cuts of $1.8 trillion before Thanksgiving
Automatic across-the-board cuts go into effect, including cuts to Defense and Medicare, if not approved by December
No new tax revenue

 

[IronWing]

And what exactly is wrong with having a balanced budget?

First the insult: You little forked tongued weasel!

You chose to completely ignore what was written and throw out a non-responsive rhetorical question. Try responding to what I wrote instead of flinging more of your usual dogshit at the internet. I suspect you can't justify the House plan for minority rule and so had to divert, divert, divert.