How to move forward with compromise

[hal2kilo]

Its already been voted down. The House is in recess. Its on rerun.

I missed the "debate". Just caught the vote. Yea, I'm am a masocist.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yet.

You know what sucks? The VA was just going to hire me too.

Damn it.

Good chance they will. We just need to get past this lunacy. PM me if you have issues with the VA.

 

[ProfJohn]

Ahhhh!!

Reid never voted to increase the debt ceiling when Republicans were in control of the Senate, and he always voted to increase the debt ceiling when Democrats were in control.

** On June 11, 2002, with the Senate in Democratic hands due to the defection of Republican-turned-Democratic Sen. Jim Jeffords, the Senate passed a debt limit increase to bring the total national debt to $6.400 trillion. Reid and Durbin voted yes.

** On May 23, 2003, with the Senate in Republican hands after the November 2002 mid-term elections, the Senate passed a debt limit increase to bring the total debt to $7.384 trillion. Reid and Durbin voted no.

** On November 17, 2004, the Senate passed a debt limit increase to bring the total debt to $8.184 trillion. Reid voted present. Durbin voted no. (In remarks on the Senate floor, Reid claimed that he would have liked to vote yes on increasing the limit, but that he had agreed to "live pair" his vote with then-Sen. Hillary Clinton, who was absent but intended to vote no. Reid explained the two had made a deal to cancel out each other's votes. "I, therefore, withhold my vote," he said of the maneuver, which allowed him to say he would vote yes without actually voting yes.)

** On March 16, 2006, the Senate passed a debt limit increase to bring the total debt to $8.965 trillion. Reid voted no, as did Durbin and Obama, then in his second year in the Senate.

** On September 27, 2007, with the Senate back in Democratic hands after the 2006 mid-term elections, the Senate passed a debt limit increase to bring the national debt to $9.815 trillion. Reid and Durbin voted yes. Obama, running for president, did not vote.

** On July 26, 2008, the Senate passed a debt limit increase included in the Housing and Recovery Act of 2008 to bring the national debt to $10.615 trillion. Reid and Durbin voted yes. Obama did not vote.

** On October 1, 2008, the Senate passed a debt limit increase included in the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 to bring the national debt to $11.315 trillion. Reid, Durbin, and Obama voted yes.

** On February 13, 2009, the Senate passed a debt limit increase included in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, better known as the stimulus bill, which increased the national debt to $12.104 trillion. Reid and Durbin voted yes.

** On December 24, 2009, the Senate passed a debt limit increase to bring the total debt to $12.394 trillion. Reid and Durbin voted yes.

** On January 28, 2010, the Senate passed a debt limit increase to bring the national debt to $14.294 trillion. Reid and Durbin voted yes.

 

[ProfJohn]

ProJo's proposal-

"Start with a bucket 'o turds..."

Dems need to step away, let Repubs deal with the Reid proposal as they see fit.

If there's default, it'll crash the economy. If Repubs have their way, it'll crash the economy. It's important, vital, that they be made to own either outcome, for Dems to not appear to be complicit in the latter.

If it has to be default, if Repubs are willing to force that, then the public will know who to blame when granny's SS cheque doesn't appear on time, and when the foodstamps so many Americans depend on fail to materialize, not to mention the reaction of the nation's creditors when they don't get paid, either. Let the Tea Party answer to their own broke-ass constituents. Let people realize just how much they depend on a smoothly functioning govt that Repubs are attempting to destroy.

The GOP dealt with the Reid bill the same way Reid dealt with their bill, they voted it down.


How can you blame one side on this when they are doing the exact same thing?

 

[HomerJS]

Idiocy...

Seriously, where is your brain?

Why not propose that we balance the budget tomorrow?
How about we raise taxes tomorrow?
Leave Iraq & Afghanistan overnight to save some money?
Fix the economy by waving a magic wand?

Why suggest a solution that has NO chance of passing either house?

Strange never been held hostage for the past 74 times and 17 under Reagan. This isn't even the largest debt as a % of GDP in history (just blunting that excuse).

So what's the diffference this time? Oh yeah that foriegner that was elected is in office.

"We’re going to raise it, as a reasonable government must. This is really housekeeping, Tim. This has nothing to say or do with future spending. This simply reflects decisions made in the past, and it ought to be treated as the housekeeping matter it is"

Mitch Daniels former budget director under GW Bush, talking about the debt ceiling

 

[her209]

Ahhhh!!

Reid never voted to increase the debt ceiling when Republicans were in control of the Senate, and he always voted to increase the debt ceiling when Democrats were in control.

And every time the debt limit was always increased.

Amazing!

 

[Fern]

Strange never been held hostage for the past 74 times and 17 under Reagan. This isn't even the largest debt as a % of GDP in history (just blunting that excuse).

So what's the diffference this time? Oh yeah that foriegner that was elected is in office.

Seriously?

The debt ceiling was just raised in February of this year, the "foreigner" Obama signed it himself 2/14/11 IIRC.

"never been held hostage for the past 74 times"? Really? How come we've had govt shutdowns (1996) and threats of them?

Geez man.

Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And every time the debt limit was always increased.

Amazing!

Let's just skip this whole debt thing. The government spends whatever it wants and prints the same amount of currency needed to pay for it.

 

[HomerJS]

Seriously?

The debt ceiling was just raised in February of this year, the "foreigner" Obama signed it himself 2/14/11 IIRC.

"never been held hostage for the past 74 times"? Really? How come we've had govt shutdowns (1996) and threats of them?

Geez man.

Fern

The shutdown of 1996 happened due to a failure to pass a budget not a failure to pass debt ceiling. Up to that point they were using CRs to keep budget going.

BTW - The last debt ceiling increase happened Feb 2010. Teabaggers weren't in office yet to gum up the works, you know like their major rallys didn't start until after Obama got elected.

Geez man

 

[ProfJohn]

Part of our problem is that the control of congress is split.

That makes it far harder to craft a plan.

Also, of the last 10 times the limit has been increased only once was control of congress split, 2002.

BTW nearly every Democrat in the house voted No on that bill...
The House Democrats all voted no in 2003 as well
The House Democrats all voted no in 2004 as well
The House Democrats all voted no in 2006 as well

But all of a sudden in 2007 they ALL start voting yes.... strange how that works.

 

[Fern]

The shutdown of 1996 happened due to a failure to pass a budget not a failure to pass debt ceiling. Up to that point they were using CRs to keep budget going.

Geez man

Wrong. We went past the debt ceiling deadline for about 5 months back in 1995/96.

Elsewhere, I've posted studies by the GAO etc laying out the steps (accounting tricks etc) Bob Rubin, as head of Treasury, took to keep checks flowing while they couldn't float additional debt.

Lemme help you:

The last time Congress allowed the debt ceiling to elapse was November of 1995, when the Gingrich-led House attached cuts and conditions to a debt-ceiling increase that were unacceptable to the Clinton-led White House, The standoff continued for four months, requiring the Treasury secretary, Robert Rubin, to do some extraordinarily fancy fiscal footwork to keep the government from defaulting altogether.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-it-was-in-1995/2011/05/09/AFlJqp5G_blog.html

Fern

 

[ProfJohn]

History of the debt with bills and vote totals.
http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/issues.php?id=20110401163447

 

[ProfJohn]

Seriously?

The debt ceiling was just raised in February of this year, the "foreigner" Obama signed it himself 2/14/11 IIRC.

"never been held hostage for the past 74 times"? Really? How come we've had govt shutdowns (1996) and threats of them?

Geez man.

Fern

Wrong year... 2010 was last time it was raised.

 

[dali71]

So what's the diffference this time? Oh yeah that foriegner that was elected is in office.

Thanks for using boldface to emphasize your stupidity.

 

[theeedude]

Go into a shutdown. Negotiate through it. Angry phone calls from constituents not getting paid, not being able to go to Smithsonian, losing their 401k money, etc, will focus the minds in Congress.

 

[ProfJohn]

Go into a shutdown. Negotiate through it. Angry phone calls from constituents not getting paid, not being able to go to Smithsonian, losing their 401k money, etc, will focus the minds in Congress.

You are a broken record...

House passed a bill, Senate has yet to pass one. Obama has yet to present one.


When the questions start to fly the GOP can answer:
"We passed a bill, the Senate Democrats have yet to pass one and the President has not even offered up a plan in writing. The Republicans only control one third of the elected bodies of government and that third is the only one to have passed anything. At this point the Democrats need to come up with a plan that can pass and then we can move forward."

 

[ProfJohn]

Great cover on National Review this week. Says it all.

 

[Engineer]

You are a broken record...

House passed a bill, Senate has yet to pass one. Obama has yet to present one.

Seems the GOP are hellbent in the Senate on filibustering instead of just letting it come to a vote (as evidence by the 43 who signed the letter stating that they would let it get to a vote knowing they need 60 just to get to that point). Hard to pass one if the other side won't let it come to a vote now isn't it?

 

[Jhhnn]

The GOP dealt with the Reid bill the same way Reid dealt with their bill, they voted it down.


How can you blame one side on this when they are doing the exact same thing?

Republicans started this fracas by voting for the budget, and then refusing to come up with the money to pay for it.

Obfuscate all you want, that's the underlying truth, and something the electorate knows all too well. Other than the Tea Base, who think they're the center of the universe.

 

[theeedude]

You are a broken record...

House passed a bill, Senate has yet to pass one. Obama has yet to present one.


When the questions start to fly the GOP can answer:
"We passed a bill, the Senate Democrats have yet to pass one and the President has not even offered up a plan in writing. The Republicans only control one third of the elected bodies of government and that third is the only one to have passed anything. At this point the Democrats need to come up with a plan that can pass and then we can move forward."

Obama endorsed the Senate bill, so he has presented one with Reid.
You are the broken record here.
Obama should take it into shutdown if GOP doesn't want pass Reid's bill. If US goes into shutdown, GOP owns the economy. Obama can say, see economy would be better, but GOP filibustered us into a shutdown and undermined confidence. Secondly, GOP will be be on the losing end of the shutdown, it's only a matter of time before they fold. That will make them think twice before obstructing next time.
And thirdly, Obama needs to shake up the dynamic going into next year. Right now, the trend is not his friend. He needs a Clinton 95 moment. So I don't understand why he's so eager to compromise with the GOP.

 

[epidemis]

Simple. Vote to raise the debt ceiling. Now work on the budget bill as separate legislation like it's supposed to be. Don't hold the debt ceiling bill hostage. It's that simple.

Idealistic, but in politics you can't separate the two. If I was a loan officer I wouldn't pass a loan before I made sure they had a plan to pay them back.

 

[dali71]

Seems the GOP are hellbent in the Senate on filibustering instead of just letting it come to a vote (as evidence by the 43 who signed the letter stating that they would let it get to a vote knowing they need 60 just to get to that point). Hard to pass one if the other side won't let it come to a vote now isn't it?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2011/jul/30/democrats-enforce-filibuster-against-own-debt-bill/

Senate Republicans want a 60-vote threshold for a debt-limit bill to pass the chamber, but it's actually Democrats who are enforcing the filibuster on their own legislation, insisting on delaying a vote until 1 a.m. Sunday morning.

Republicans offered to let the vote happen Friday night, just minutes after the chamber voted to halt a House Republican bill. All sides expect Democrats' bill will fail too, and the GOP said senators might as well kill both at the same time so that negotiations could move on to a compromise.

"We would be happy to have that vote tonight," Sen. Mitch McConnell, Republicans' leader, offered.

But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid objected, even though the vote would occur on his own bill. He instead said the chamber would have to run out the full procedural clock, which means a vote in the early hours Sunday morning.

The Republicans offered to vote on it, but Reid wants to wait.

 

[Engineer]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2011/jul/30/democrats-enforce-filibuster-against-own-debt-bill/



The Republicans offered to vote on it, but Reid wants to wait.

But only if they get a 60 vote majority to pass it...

He said he would be willing to move up the vote if Republicans didn't insist on a 60-vote threshold, which has become traditional for big, controversial items to pass the Senate. But the GOP held firm on that demand, so Mr. Reid said he would insist on the full process, which he said would show the country that Republicans were being obstructionist.

.

Seems if they wait, they would not have to have the 60 vote but just a simple majority (am I reading that wrong?).

 

[hal2kilo]

Obama endorsed the Senate bill, so he has presented one with Reid.
You are the broken record here.
Obama should take it into shutdown if GOP doesn't want pass Reid's bill. If US goes into shutdown, GOP owns the economy. Obama can say, see economy would be better, but GOP filibustered us into a shutdown and undermined confidence. Secondly, GOP will be be on the losing end of the shutdown, it's only a matter of time before they fold. That will make them think twice before obstructing next time.
And thirdly, Obama needs to shake up the dynamic going into next year. Right now, the trend is not his friend. He needs a Clinton 95 moment. So I don't understand why he's so eager to compromise with the GOP.

Hell, even the Koch brothers might realize they backed bunch of nut balls that they no longer have any control over and cut them off from campaign money. Of course, that's pure wishful thinking on my part.

EDIT- Of course that's probably been their plan all along so they can by up America at a fire sale.

 

[Thump553]

Not exactly clairvoyance but PJ's original post is the most likely path to passing a debt ceiling bill. After all (prior to the last decade or so) that's the way bills have usually become laws.

However evern assuming Congress pulls a last minute settlement, a lot of damage has already been done to the confidence in the dollar, thus weakening our recovery further.