How to communicate with mid-westerners as a blue state Yankee?

[norseamd]

You sound like an immature child.

And what would that make his relatives now?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Hah, I accept that we're more guarded. Here's the thing - I think midwesterners are too trusting - "stranger danger" isn't a thing there, everyone's so friendly so why not just jump into that stranger's car! We instead assume the worst and are more guarded because of it. It's probably a reason we live longer. To us new yorkers, the world isn't a nice place and you need to give us a reason to trust ya. I prefer it that way, but I see how that can come off as rude.

The reason for this is because as a NYer you have been around completely shitty people and you trust no one....

It isn't a nice place because NY is not a nice place and it smells like dump too.

If you lived until 1000, it would still not be better than living a decent life outside of the zoo.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Small town don't really have any good restaurants, ethnic or otherwise. And when a small town does have a "Chinese" restaurant, it's owned by the one Chinese family in town. So is that a slam on the town, or Chinese people. 😉

That's because people in the rural area make amazing food at home and value "restaurants" and "going out" VERY little.

😉

 

[vi edit]

That's because people in the rural area make amazing food at home and value "restaurants" and "going out" VERY little.

😉

LOL. He's going to Omaha. That's a city popularized by the sheer volume of restaurants there. Seriously, you can't go a block without bumping into some sort of restaurant or bar. It's a town that eats out...A LOT.

It's not much different in other midwest cities....Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Peoria, ect. It's a waiting list at most decent places on any night of the week. People are eating out a lot.

Even in very small rural areas, go to the local watering hole on a Friday night and it will be packed. Google map Liverpool, IL. That place is only found by people that really want to be there. There's a bar on the river that is packed on Friday nights for catfish dinners. There's thousands of hole in the wall places like that in small communities that people go to. In most of these communities though, it's less about the food and more about socializing and catching up on local gossip. Plus in these areas incomes are not very high, so eating out is a luxury and not an item of convenience. Eating out is more of an "event" than just something you do because you are too busy/lazy to cook.

 

[dank69]

I have 2 words for you.

GROW UP!

You sound like an immature child.

Yeah, when ignorant folk talk about towel-heads in front of him he should just keep his mouth shut like a good immigrant. 🙄

 

[Vdubchaos]

LOL. He's going to Omaha. That's a city popularized by the sheer volume of restaurants there. Seriously, you can't go a block without bumping into some sort of restaurant or bar. It's a town that eats out...A LOT.

It's not much different in other midwest cities....Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Peoria, ect. It's a waiting list at most decent places on any night of the week. People are eating out a lot.

Even in very small rural areas, go to the local watering hole on a Friday night and it will be packed. Google map Liverpool, IL. That place is only found by people that really want to be there. There's a bar on the river that is packed on Friday nights for catfish dinners. There's thousands of hole in the wall places like that in small communities that people go to. In most of these communities though, it's less about the food and more about socializing and catching up on local gossip. Plus in these areas incomes are not very high, so eating out is a luxury and not an item of convenience. Eating out is more of an "event" than just something you do because you are too busy/lazy to cook.

I was talking about more rural areas/VERY small towns.

Yes, I live in a small town too that's full of malls and restaurants....that's basically the definition of America.

 

[glenn1]

Yeah, when ignorant folk talk about towel-heads in front of him he should just keep his mouth shut like a good immigrant. 🙄

What's the point of speaking up to people like that? Not like they'll suddenly start treating him like a peer to be treated with respect (a.k.a. another white person). They'll just stop talking and call him an uppity beloved patriot behind his back. The people who use such derogatory slurs in the first place don't tend to change, even when (sometimes especially) use that language while talking to someone that is standing right in front of them to whom the slur applies.

Trust me, I know about the above from firsthand experience - my mom still can't get beyond her racist and anti-immigrant biases even now. And this is despite 2 of her 4 children being in interracial marriages and having mixed race kids. And she's equal opportunity about it, she makes offensive comments to both the black and asian spouses of her children. She's even done so to her grandchildren before, which is just sad.

 

[Vdubchaos]

What's the point of speaking up to people like that? Not like they'll suddenly start treating him like a peer to be treated with respect (a.k.a. another white person). They'll just stop talking and call him an uppity beloved patriot behind his back. The people who use such derogatory slurs in the first place don't tend to change, even when (sometimes especially) use that language while talking to someone that is standing right in front of them to whom the slur applies.

Trust me, I know about the above from firsthand experience - my mom still can't get beyond her racist and anti-immigrant biases even now. And this is despite 2 of her 4 children being in interracial marriages and having mixed race kids. And she's equal opportunity about it, she makes offensive comments to both the black and asian spouses of her children. She's even done so to her grandchildren before, which is just sad.

I'm wondering what's worse.

Your mother

or

the fact that your siblings actually bring their families around such people.

Hmmm

 

[slackerinabox]

The reason for this is because as a NYer you have been around completely shitty people and you trust no one....

It isn't a nice place because NY is not a nice place and it smells like dump too.

If you lived until 1000, it would still not be better than living a decent life outside of the zoo.

Have you been to NYC since the 70s? It's a vastly different place than you're describing, and you couldn't afford it anyways 🙂

And we're living longer than you, probably partly because we're not trusting fools who leave their doors unlocked... Or drive drunk all the time like you small town geniuses do

 

[glenn1]

I'm wondering what's worse.

Your mother

or

the fact that your siblings actually bring their families around such people.

Hmmm

It's not a constant barrage and we can generally redirect her. IMHO completely cutting our children off from her (and their grandfather who is amazing) would be worse than "protecting" them from her. In some ways it's better for them to get exposed to these attitudes early when we can attempt to explain it to them. Think of it as exposure therapy for what they'll experience later in their lives anyway.

 

[slackerinabox]

Yeah, when ignorant folk talk about towel-heads in front of him he should just keep his mouth shut like a good immigrant. 🙄

EXACTLY. My wife is rarely upset when I do break, because she's said the same thing "what were you supposed to do? Just take it and smile?" She doesn't like the drama but respects that I"m in a weird position, and that they start it most of the time. OK, I started the evolution fight... Because, come on..

I think it's morally flawed to just sit back when ignorance is spouted, but I'll be on my best behavior considering the occassion. Meditating, drinking, I'll take up smoking again that week - anything to burn off that negative energy

 

[Vdubchaos]

Have you been to NYC since the 70s? It's a vastly different place than you're describing, and you couldn't afford it anyways 🙂

And we're living longer than you, probably partly because we're not trusting fools who leave their doors unlocked... Or drive drunk all the time like you small town geniuses do

Spoken like a true New Yorker

Give me billions and I wouldn't touch NYC with a 100 foot pole. Give me one reason to live there...go ahead.

 

[slackerinabox]

What's the point of speaking up to people like that? Not like they'll suddenly start treating him like a peer to be treated with respect (a.k.a. another white person). They'll just stop talking and call him an uppity beloved patriot behind his back. The people who use such derogatory slurs in the first place don't tend to change, even when (sometimes especially) use that language while talking to someone that is standing right in front of them to whom the slur applies.

Trust me, I know about the above from firsthand experience - my mom still can't get beyond her racist and anti-immigrant biases even now. And this is despite 2 of her 4 children being in interracial marriages and having mixed race kids. And she's equal opportunity about it, she makes offensive comments to both the black and asian spouses of her children. She's even done so to her grandchildren before, which is just sad.

Actually, my loud mouth has had some positive effects. My wife's grandmother, otherwise a kind lady, refused to acknowledge her gay grandson, that was until we had an epic (but kind, I don't lose my patience with the elderly) throwdown. My FIL's rhetoric has calmed down too, making me really respect the guy over the years and turning him into a softer, better guy vs. a pseudo cowboy. He's my biggest silent ally, whispering support because he's not quite brave enough to be vocal. My biggest conversion was my dad, a hateful guy who, after he hit my mom in front of me, convinced me to never be a passive person anymore - it's been 18 years and he'll never, ever do that again.

My point is that you can change people, just not during a wedding they paid for.. So I'll be good 🙂

 

[Vdubchaos]

=
My point is that you can change people, just not during a wedding they paid for.. So I'll be good 🙂

Rather than change people, how about you just accept them and recognize who they are.

😉

What you are doing is trying to change someone into someone they are not.

Why would you do such a thing anyways?

Especially since you are SO big on "never trust anyone"......one would think you would've already learned that "most people don't change".

 

[slackerinabox]

Spoken like a true New Yorker

Give me billions and I wouldn't touch NYC with a 100 foot pole. Give me one reason to live there...go ahead.

Dude, why the fuck would we want you living here anyways? 1 reason? A mixed race couple can walk into a target holding hands without the whole town staring at them. A gay couple can make out on the corner and, aside from me gagging from the PDA (because I don't like PDA), they're not going to end up dead in a corn field somewhere. People are allowed to be who they are here, and the food's pretty amazing.

I don't think NYC is the best city in the world, I'm partial to London myself, but - come on, there's a reason property cost what it does here and your rent is probably $400.. Supply and demand, I'm not alone in my love of big cities.

 

[Vdubchaos]

It's not a constant barrage and we can generally redirect her. IMHO completely cutting our children off from her (and their grandfather who is amazing) would be worse than "protecting" them from her. In some ways it's better for them to get exposed to these attitudes early when we can attempt to explain it to them. Think of it as exposure therapy for what they'll experience later in their lives anyway.

i understand, but you are also teaching them that it's ok to treat your loved ones like that.

It's normal.

I find that more dangerous then the pros you posted out above.

Grandfather can't be so amazing if he remains with such person either.....

It has less to do with "exposing them" and more to do with recognizing people and dealing with the appropriately. And not surrounding yourself around such people.

 

[IronWing]

Omaha? This is easy peazy. Three things to bring to the conversation: 1) I only eat GMO-free organic foods, 2) the ethanol subsidy is pure communism, and 3) the town seems so much nicer since Bush I stood down the SAC.

Either that or just talk about food, beer, and cars just like every other American male trying to avoid confrontational topics.

Also, plan other things to do while you're there. Go to the botanical garden, the SAC museum, or find a concert. Celine Dion and the Muppets will be in Omaha in April and Taylor Swift will be there in October. You can talk about that.

 

[slackerinabox]

Rather than change people, how about you just accept them and recognize who they are.

😉

What you are doing is trying to change someone into someone they are not.

Why would you do such a thing anyways?

Especially since you are SO big on "never trust anyone"......one would think you would've already learned that "most people don't change".

Because, when they're racist, they can't play with my adorable mix-raced kids. I will not allow my kids to be around it unanswered. That's like saying it's ok! Can you believe someone said "she [your kid's] cute but I prefer blonde hair and blue eyed babies?" You just gotta say something, or die wishing that you did. Most people don't change, but some do. I guess I'm not as defeatist as most people - and I do not try to actively change people, just voice my opinion and state that it's not ok.

BUT not at a wedding, I recognize that that's not appropriate. I think I'm looking more for coping mechanisms than a validation or critique of having a fucking opinion. Man, I can't believe so many people would just suck it up

 

[slackerinabox]

LOL. He's going to Omaha. That's a city popularized by the sheer volume of restaurants there. Seriously, you can't go a block without bumping into some sort of restaurant or bar. It's a town that eats out...A LOT.

It's not much different in other midwest cities....Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Peoria, ect. It's a waiting list at most decent places on any night of the week. People are eating out a lot.

Even in very small rural areas, go to the local watering hole on a Friday night and it will be packed. Google map Liverpool, IL. That place is only found by people that really want to be there. There's a bar on the river that is packed on Friday nights for catfish dinners. There's thousands of hole in the wall places like that in small communities that people go to. In most of these communities though, it's less about the food and more about socializing and catching up on local gossip. Plus in these areas incomes are not very high, so eating out is a luxury and not an item of convenience. Eating out is more of an "event" than just something you do because you are too busy/lazy to cook.

Dude, Omaha has like 10 restaurants on each block - and they're mostly awful. I never know if it's the local tastes or that they just eat what they can get.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Because, when they're racist, they can't play with my adorable mix-raced kids. I will not allow my kids to be around it unanswered. That's like saying it's ok! Can you believe someone said "she [your kid's] cute but I prefer blonde hair and blue eyed babies?" You just gotta say something, or die wishing that you did. Most people don't change, but some do. I guess I'm not as defeatist as most people - and I do not try to actively change people, just voice my opinion and state that it's not ok.

If you feel your opinion/advice is so great, I wonder why it is that you offer it to those that deserve it the least.

People don't change. And sure, they will be nice and act like they changed to your face........they simply sold you on the act, and you are naive.

Reserve your advice to those that deserve it, not to dirt bags.

 

[Muse]

OK, just noticed this already-long thread, read the OP. I can empathize, I was born in NYC, live in CA in a liberal enclave. I don't live under a rock but find it a challenge more and more to understand red-state America, but of course I try.

I can identify with where you're coming from. Anti-social/"borderline misanthropic" resonates.

Well, the obvious thing is you are out of your element there. It's not your duty to enlighten these people. That's their concern. A person who has narrow views has to first realize that before they can broaden their horizons. You are obviously capable of introspection. Use that to your advantage. You are going to get (maybe you're there now or already home, I don't know) inundated with stuff that's outlandish and abrasive and offensive. Accept that. You are not obligated to be a mirror for these people. Most important to you is that you remain yourself, be true to yourself. You need not respond to hypocrisy, etc. You are entitled to remain silent. If they wonder why you don't respond, fine. That wonder could be a seed. If they are incapable of wondering why you don't respond, they are beyond hope. There are times when it's best to remain silent.

I'll quote my favorite poet because I think this relevant:

From William Blake's Augeries of Innocence:

"He who replies to words of Doubt Doth put the Light of Knowledge out"

Edit: I agree, you should not drink alcohol during this trip.

Honestly, I've been all over the US and the world. The truth? Midwesterners are the nicest people I've ever encountered. You're making it way too hard.

There's something to this. I've met a lot of people from Ohio here in Berkeley who struck me as some of the nicest people I've ever met. Now, granted, these people are a subset of Ohio folks who chose to move to the S.F. Bay Area, hardly the typical. But there has to be something to the idea that there's something great about Ohio. I think this probably applies to the mid-west in general. Amidst all that goes on in your psyche during this short period I think you might want to ruminate on this idea.

View the trip as an opportunity, because it is. You want to feel good about yourself when this is over.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Dude, why the fuck would we want you living here anyways? 1 reason? A mixed race couple can walk into a target holding hands without the whole town staring at them. A gay couple can make out on the corner and, aside from me gagging from the PDA (because I don't like PDA), they're not going to end up dead in a corn field somewhere. People are allowed to be who they are here, and the food's pretty amazing.

You have so much fear and care for other people's opinion.

Also your generalizations are WAY out there. When I dropped a few of my own, it was intended to give you a taste of your own shit so you can realize how ridicules you sound.

In NYC, at ANY TIME, within 1 min, you are surrounded by worst people and more dangerous than you will be in 1 year worth in the rural area.

I suggest you go out there, don't narrow your opinion to your wife's shitty family....and get to know people well. There are MANY great people ANYWHERE you go, especially in remote areas of US.

Just don't bring your arrogance with you cause most people will sniff that crap out and treat you accordingly in no time.

I don't think NYC is the best city in the world, I'm partial to London myself, but - come on, there's a reason property cost what it does here and your rent is probably $400.. Supply and demand, I'm not alone in my love of big cities.

You define "great" with "cost".

If you idea of great life is being surrounded by concrete, masses and garbage, I say, whatever floats your boat.

More power to you.

PS. I was born/raised in a major city/city boy and have been in and around NYC my entire life.

 

[slackerinabox]

You have so much fear and care for other people's opinion.

Also your generalizations are WAY out there. When I dropped a few of my own, it was intended to give you a taste of your own shit so you can realize how ridicules you sound.

In NYC, at ANY TIME, within 1 min, you are surrounded by worst people and more dangerous than you will be in 1 year worth in the rural area.

I suggest you go out there, don't narrow your opinion to your wife's shitty family....and get to know people well. There are MANY great people ANYWHERE you go, especially in remote areas of US.

Just don't bring your arrogance with you cause most people will sniff that crap out and treat you accordingly in no time.



You define "great" with "cost".

If you idea of great life is being surrounded by concrete, masses and garbage, I say, whatever floats your boat.

More power to you.

PS. I was born/raised in a major city/city boy and have been in and around NYC my entire life.

Fair enough, my argument was silly - different strokes for different folks, after all. Me? Aside from the subversive racism, I just can't stand how people in small towns are in your face, meaning there's a distinct lack of anonymity that I find grating. My wife faced a lot of that - people knew her every move, and would broadcast to everyone like high school. Lot's of nosy people with a lot of free time. No privacy, people are always so into what you're doing and can't jsut let you be. I can't stand it, I mean I felt weird buying condoms because the cashiers there are so chatty! Sometimes I just like going 10 hours without having to talk to or answer to anyone.

Big cities just allow me to be an anonymous nobody, which I love. But I won't lie, I appreciate how awesome it would be to have a secluded chunk of land in Montana... As long as there's wifi 🙂

 

[slackerinabox]

OK, just noticed this already-long thread, read the OP. I can empathize, I was born in NYC, live in CA in a liberal enclave. I don't live under a rock but find it a challenge more and more to understand red-state America, but of course I try.

I can identify with where you're coming from. Anti-social/"borderline misanthropic" resonates.

Well, the obvious thing is you are out of your element there. It's not your duty to enlighten these people. That's their concern. A person who has narrow views has to first realize that before they can broaden their horizons. You are obviously capable of introspection. Use that to your advantage. You are going to get (maybe you're there now or already home, I don't know) inundated with stuff that's outlandish and abrasive and offensive. Accept that. You are not obligated to be a mirror for these people. Most important to you is that you remain yourself, be true to yourself. You need not respond to hypocrisy, etc. You are entitled to remain silent. If they wonder why you don't respond, fine. That wonder could be a seed. If they are incapable of wondering why you don't respond, they are beyond hope. There are times when it's best to remain silent.

I'll quote my favorite poet because I think this relevant:

From William Blake's Augeries of Innocence:

"He who replies to words of Doubt Doth put the Light of Knowledge out"

Edit: I agree, you should not drink alcohol in during this trip.There's something to this. I've met a lot of people from Ohio here in Berkeley who struck me as some of the nicest people I've ever met. Now, granted, these people are a subset of Ohio folks who chose to move to the S.F. Bay Area, hardly the typical. But there has to be something to the idea that there's something great about Ohio. I think this probably applies to the mid-west in general. Amidst all that goes on in your psyche during this short period I think you might want to ruminate on this idea.

Thanks for this post. I can't believe it but I'm reading Buddhist text right now on the power of silence, because I honestly don't want to make a scene and will have to train myself to shut up.

Wise words, tact is something I need to learn. There's a weird feeling being the only X in the room (only woman, only brown person not washing the dishes in the back, or the only LGBT person) -it already puts me on edge because I'm shocked that all these people don't know a single brother, but my response has been to come out swinging, and it's not a mature one..

 

[ControlD]

Dude, why the fuck would we want you living here anyways? 1 reason? A mixed race couple can walk into a target holding hands without the whole town staring at them. A gay couple can make out on the corner and, aside from me gagging from the PDA (because I don't like PDA), they're not going to end up dead in a corn field somewhere. People are allowed to be who they are here, and the food's pretty amazing.

Honestly, if that's your opinion of Midwest people then you pretty much deserve what you are getting.

I grew up in and still live in a shit hole Midwest city. I dated an Indian girl for 2.5 years and never had a problem out in public. I have a gay brother. He never had any violence visited upon him. I'm sure NYC has no racists or bigots though. Everyone simply gets along and is allowed to be whatever they want. That's why you NEVER hear of any hate crimes in the greater NYC area.