How to communicate with mid-westerners as a blue state Yankee?

[Homerboy]

As a midwesterner who was born, raised and will someday die here, F you.

 

[vi edit]

Ok, so here's the unfortunate rub with some of the "midwest" cities in regards to races.

We aren't exposed to positive stereotypes. I lived in Peoria, IL which is halfway between STL and Chicago. We were a major stop on the highway for gang activity. We also held the record for shootings and murders per capita in the state. Nearly all of which were gang related. There's a recurring theme on the nightly news for shootings and robberies each night.

Omaha was the same way. If there was a shooting in town it was almost always in that upper right quadrant of town above I-480, and east of 75.

We just get beat over the head with particular stereotypes day after day that never seem to improve.

St. Louis, Memphis, Chicago, Cincinnati, ect all have similar issues. Lots of negative reinforcement.

 

[slackerinabox]

I went through the same thing when my former company merged with one in the midwest and I got moved there. Couple basic adjustments you'll need to make.

1. Like southerners, they won't work on "East Coast speed." Unlike say New Yorkers who will get annoyed if you don't get to the point within 10 seconds or so, prepare to spend 5-10 minutes in small talk.

2. Learn enough about sports to let them talk themselves out about the subject. For example I don't give much of a shit about the St Louis Cardinals but everyone I worked with did. So I learned the names of couple key players and checked the game score before talking to people so I could congratulate the team if they won or console the other person if they lost.

3. Accept that your tastes and preferences won't match theirs and adjust your attitude accordingly. Sure you might think the "horrible christian movie" is crap but they likewise probably feel the same about the cultural "attractions" of NYC and they likewise may think your preferences suck. Not everyone will think "Avenue Q" or "The Book of Mormon" is the height of culture, nor does every midwest town have the audience to sustain a drag queen brunch club.

4. Enjoy the local attractions and hotspots for what they are and don't compare them against those from your locale. You might find that the local's longtime businesses are worthy of your patronage, and that you enjoy going there yourself and will miss them when you leave. Heck, I would kill for some Pappy's Smokehouse or Ted Drewe's right now.

This is helpful, thank you.

1. Yes, there storytelling style is VERY different than ours. For example, a story about getting a new toaster could take 15 minutes and often derails into how a great aunt somewhere hates toast. My east coast brain shuts down and forgets what we're talking about, which is super frustrating. Especially with older people, my god can my grandma in law (who I think is the nicest person in the world) go on an on and on. She even falls asleep while telling stories!

2. Perhaps this is too Holden Caulfield of me, but I feel that reading up sports scores ahead of time is pretty phony, but not a bad suggestion

3. Of course, I don't really make a big deal about differences in taste and was just pointing that out as a lack of commonality. I'll do better about "haven't seen that!" vs. "have no interest in seeing that." i understand the distinction and know my attitude is rude, it's just how we argue here... In fact, I've made great friends while arguing that their taste in music sucks - we like to argue/debate about culture, I get that doesn't fly

4. Yep, I dig downtown omaha quite a bit (it's a cute bohemian/hipster enclave) and try to spend as much time there when visiting. I worry about the actual wedding, including dinners and socializing leading up to it

 

[Carson Dyle]

Only one course of action can possibly keep you from looking and feeling like a total idiot: Shut up, sit in the corner, nod or shake your head when spoken too. I suspect you're rather good at all that.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Honestly, I've been all over the US and the world. The truth? Midwesterners are the nicest people I've ever encountered. You're making it way too hard.

And NYers are the opposite of "nicest"

 

[slackerinabox]

As a midwesterner who was born, raised and will someday die here, F you.

Yikes, why would you want to die in a land only known for it's cheese?

Just kidding, I accept that this thread would rub people the wrong way and apologize

 

[slackerinabox]

And NYers are the opposite of "nicest"

Hah, I accept that we're more guarded. Here's the thing - I think midwesterners are too trusting - "stranger danger" isn't a thing there, everyone's so friendly so why not just jump into that stranger's car! We instead assume the worst and are more guarded because of it. It's probably a reason we live longer. To us new yorkers, the world isn't a nice place and you need to give us a reason to trust ya. I prefer it that way, but I see how that can come off as rude.

 

[slackerinabox]

Ok, so here's the unfortunate rub with some of the "midwest" cities in regards to races.

We aren't exposed to positive stereotypes. I lived in Peoria, IL which is halfway between STL and Chicago. We were a major stop on the highway for gang activity. We also held the record for shootings and murders per capita in the state. Nearly all of which were gang related. There's a recurring theme on the nightly news for shootings and robberies each night.

Omaha was the same way. If there was a shooting in town it was almost always in that upper right quadrant of town above I-480, and east of 75.

We just get beat over the head with particular stereotypes day after day that never seem to improve.

St. Louis, Memphis, Chicago, Cincinnati, ect all have similar issues. Lots of negative reinforcement.

So how would a person of color deal with that? I'm very NY so I don't come off as indian, they just assume I'm black and there's def. a "what is he doing in this country club?" energy that I just hate... It puts me in a bad mood to begin with, then I cling onto my controversial liberal values because I feel dehumanized.

I don't think that everyone in the midwest is racist, but you're right in that I don't think they're exposed to differences in culture, values, and skin tone so they get awkward around me, and I pick up on that and sometimes take it to an adversarial place, as a defense mechanism

 

[slackerinabox]

I have heard that NYC is filled with rude assholes who would rather ignore a stranger than help one!

Not to continue the midwestern flame bait, but I believe that this midwestern niceness is limited to people like yourself. I've heard, multiple times, grumbles about "go get a job!" or "he'll use that money for crack" when the person asking for money or kindness was something other than someone who could be your brother/sister. It seems that NY empathy is more open and across race/socio-economics, it's why we don't bitch about higher taxes and 'welfare moms.'

 

[slackerinabox]

So you post a whole collection of stereotypes you have about mid westerners and Christians but feel hurt or insulted by the stereotypes they may have regarding you which may be just as substance-less.

I think it's ok to poke fun at people for where they're from, but not the way they're born (which is why midwestern homophobia and racism rub me the wrong way). I say "midwestern" bigotry because I've never heard a new yorker say "he died to me when he came out as gay" or "black people just need to stop making excuses and work harder." These are things I've only heard in the midwest. Sure, there are bigots here in NY, but they tend to know to keep quiet or face the concequences, versus being offended that you're offended.

Regional stereotypes exist, ask anyone from New Jersey. Or don't, because they're idiots from Jersey.

(just kidding, just kidding)

 

[BoberFett]

I'm surprised they invited you. You seem like a real douchebag.

It's almost as if his conservative relatives aren't the problem... :hmm:

 

[nakedfrog]

I've lived in that area for (holy crap, has it been this long?!? I gotta GTFO...) seventeen years, and I know exactly what you mean. Smile and nod, and make "mmmm hmmm" noises, excuse yourself to use the restroom, pretend someone is calling you on your cell phone... with my older kid's babysitter, she'd still be prattling on about something inane as I was backing out of her driveway, smiling, nodding, and waving.

 

[slackerinabox]

People here are much the same. You can take weather conversations surprisingly far if you know a few data points. Before you go, look up the 10 day forecast for the area you're going to. If it shows wind in the future, comment on how windy it's "supposed" to be. If there's a couple of days where there's rain on the horizon, say "looks like there's going to be rain in a few days. Bet the farmers appreciate that". Bonus points for looking up historical data so you can say things like "You don't get much rain around here do you. Last time it was this dry was '95", or whatever is appropriate for the data you see. People will take all these things and run with them so you really don't have to talk constantly.

This is where you're going to have to master your urge to argue your side. That doesn't mean you have to jump in and enthusiastically agree with everything they say, but you don't have to be the champion of every non-white person against your racist in-laws either. The problem is that they're going to be looking for validation from you to a certain extent. They're going to bring up their more nasty viewpoints around you specifically to see if you agree with them or not so they can later tell their friends about the New Yorker that agrees with them. In their minds that will give their notions more credence, not because New Yorker's opinions have more value than anyone else's, but just because they can now say that another person from some far-flung place has separately arrived at the same conclusions. It gives their opinions an air of universality.

The only way to not really get in trouble here is to never give strong opinions. They probably say things like "I bet you have big problems with ni__ers in new york, don't you?" To which you should reply, "No I guess not specifically them" without commenting on the racial slur at all. Don't comment on any of the racial or political slurs they make, in fact. Just pretend they used a polite word for whatever it is, and continue the conversation like nothing happened. To them, it's just the word for whatever race or group they're talking about. You have to learn to treat it like that around them. You can still argue with them about some things, but do it in a kind of questioning tone. Say things like "You really think he should be choked to death for that"? rather than "You're a crazy person" or whatever you would normally be inclined to say.


Here you can feel free to just lie. When you assault someone's tastes, you're actually assaulting them at the same time. Vehemently disagreeing with them will be taken as rudeness. If they start talking about some stupid TV show, you can say something like "No I haven't seen that? What is it"? Make it feel like though you haven't seen it, you are intensely interested in what went on in it. I do that all the time when people start talking about shows like Duck Dynasty or Swamp People around here. Feigning interest is tiring, so you might want to try to redirect the conversation or find an excuse to make a polite exit from the conversation soon.

You have to be adaptable. If you can be funny in one way, you can learn to be funny in another as well. the most common kind of joke around here is definitely the racist variety, but I never have to resort to that to get laughs. Very simple hokey jokes play well here. The stuff that you feel like has been repeated so often that no one can possibly find it funny anymore is still funny to these kinds of people. Playful comments on the differences between men and women will work. You have a wife now, say something about how she breaks the bank every time she goes shopping or something. Anything that women do that annoys men, and some things that men do that annoys women can mined endlessly for laughs. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. Don't worry about whether it denigrates women or not either. If everyone involved knows you don't mean it, then it doesn't count as denigrating does it?

Personally, as soon as I ascertained that everyone was on one side of that argument I would have simply kept silent and listened.

The real secret is to lie ultimately. Lie your ass off. When people refer to being polite, what they really mean is to lie about things that could potentially make conversations adversarial. Once again, that doesn't mean you have to agree with someone. If you know they're wrong, be non-committal. If you agree with them, then agree wholeheartedly. Whatever you have to do to not get into a knock-down-drag-out argument with anyone. Everyone will have a pleasant experience, and that's ultimately all that matters.

Great, great post with lots to chew on. I think your blunt "just lie" statement is very valuable, and I may be a repeated victim of "when keeping it real goes wrong"

 

[BurnItDwn]

Not to continue the Midwestern flame bait, but I believe that this Midwestern niceness is limited to people like yourself. I've heard, multiple times, grumbles about "go get a job!" or "he'll use that money for crack" when the person asking for money or kindness was something other than someone who could be your brother/sister. It seems that NY empathy is more open and across race/socio-economics, it's why we don't bitch about higher taxes and 'welfare moms.'

Ohh, I am an asshole in real life. I just play a nice person on the forum

As far as my flame bait goes, I meant it as a sort of "there are stereotypes about every place, and most of them are are load of crap."

People I think, tend to have a natural uncomfortableness with the "unknown" or things that are too "different."

I'm 40 miles outside of Chicago, far in the NW burbs. Wauconda is a pretty good mix of folks. We have some of the super conservative sports fan aggressive personality types, but we have lots of more mellow hippie types as well and everybody in between.

In the more rural areas, things are certainly a lot more conservative, but just because somebody has a different political ideology doesn't mean squat. Look at congress and senators, their politics are almost polar opposites, but they go to lunch together or go drinking together or hang out at the others sons daughters wedding or what not.

The problem is not being conservative or being liberal, the problem is when your political ideology becomes your identifier. You are "HUMAN NAME" with so and so political views. focus should be on the human side, not on political views. One piece of wisdom that I have not mastered is, you need to choose your battles. You can be happy or you can be right. Often enough, at the very beginning of an argument you may be able to deflect the argument from happening at all. "We can agree to disagree on evolution. I believe science, you have faith in the lord, there is no middle ground", just show them that while you do not like their opinion, and that even though you are sure they are wrong, show them a little bit of respect, and maybe things will go a long way better.

Worst case scenario, when things go south, speak with a fake accent, and people will think it is funny, and they will be forced to like you.

 

[BoberFett]

Not to continue the midwestern flame bait, but I believe that this midwestern niceness is limited to people like yourself. I've heard, multiple times, grumbles about "go get a job!" or "he'll use that money for crack" when the person asking for money or kindness was something other than someone who could be your brother/sister. It seems that NY empathy is more open and across race/socio-economics, it's why we don't bitch about higher taxes and 'welfare moms.'

Is that why NY has entire ghettos filled with minorities while the white people live elsewhere? That's your version of inclusiveness?

 

[slackerinabox]

Do not allow your judgement to be clouded by your ideology. Its one thing to share your most divisive and polarizing opinions on a forum, in reality, it takes some tact.

You think there is no common ground, but, there is. Food, Drinks, Music, Movies, Games, etc. Tell some stories. Instead of being filled with hate, treat it like a vacation, and try to enjoy yourself.

Where in the Midwest are you going? While vast swaths of land are firmly "chrisitian right", most of the actual cities are more moderate, or liberal. (Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Madison, etc)

You know, you're right - focus on the commonality. Get drunk. Dance. Move on. I'm just really anxious and appreciate you guys hearing me vent. I really, really dislike Omaha and Missouri - I shouldn't paint the entire midwest in a similar vein. I just never had a reason to explore the cooler parts

 

[nakedfrog]

You know, you're right - focus on the commonality. Get drunk. Dance. Move on. I'm just really anxious and appreciate you guys hearing me vent. I really, really dislike Omaha and Missouri - I shouldn't paint the entire midwest in a similar vein. I just never had a reason to explore the cooler parts

The city itself really isn't all that bad in general, it sounds like you're ending up with a negative association because of the company you're stuck with keeping.

 

[Rakehellion]

I really don't know how to get to these people. I want to earnestly try, so this isn't a rant just an attempt to get advice - I"m really anxious about the wedding and week of events leading up to it

Don't. Even. Bother.

Just be respectful, change the subject when necessary, but you aren't going to change anyone's mind.

 

[slackerinabox]

Is that why NY has entire ghettos filled with minorities while the white people live elsewhere? That's your version of inclusiveness?

Ghettos in NY are temporary, poor minorities live their until the hipsters need a new place to live

I won't pretend that racial inequality doesn't exist in NYC, but the ghetto can be left here in NYC, and there are plenty of people of color outside of the ghetto (I'm brown, we do not live in the ghetto). Seems like, from what I've seen of the midwest, the vast majority of people of color live in ghettos there. I'm not talking about indian doctors, obviously

 

[Homerboy]

Yikes, why would you want to die in a land only known for it's cheese?

Just kidding, I accept that this thread would rub people the wrong way and apologize

Why not? There's a billion worse things to be known for...

 

[slackerinabox]

I've lived in that area for (holy crap, has it been this long?!? I gotta GTFO...) seventeen years, and I know exactly what you mean. Smile and nod, and make "mmmm hmmm" noises, excuse yourself to use the restroom, pretend someone is calling you on your cell phone... with my older kid's babysitter, she'd still be prattling on about something inane as I was backing out of her driveway, smiling, nodding, and waving.

Yes, I've had conversations linger far after I've checked out numerous times. The pace is something I can't understand - hell, cashiers talk to you forever! About the things your buying! In NY that would be considered rude, but there I'm rude for not wanting to justify every item I'm purchasing to a cashier.

 

[slackerinabox]

The city itself really isn't all that bad in general, it sounds like you're ending up with a negative association because of the company you're stuck with keeping.

Any recommendations? I generally find the food bland and the culture not my thing (shopping seems to be a primary recreational activity). Last time I visited I really enjoyed going to a spanish hood there -the food was great and I found the people less uptight. Though I'm sure this thread is making me seem uptight Any other suggestions? I particularly hate the food, so much fat and salt and no spice/depth of flavor. I'll be forever grateful for a thai food recommendation that doesn't taste like peanut butter over noodles

 

[nakedfrog]

Any recommendations? I generally find the food bland and the culture not my thing (shopping seems to be a primary recreational activity). Last time I visited I really enjoyed going to a spanish hood there -the food was great and I found the people less uptight. Though I'm sure this thread is making me seem uptight Any other suggestions? I particularly hate the food, so much fat and salt and no spice/depth of flavor. I'll be forever grateful for a thai food recommendation that doesn't taste like peanut butter over noodles

It sounds like you already know where most of the culture is, Old Market (downtown). Filmstreams is the indie theater, and Kaneko has interesting exhibits at times. I've been meaning to try thai around here somewhere for a while now, but haven't as of yet. Midtown Crossing may be worth looking into as well. It probably depends on how much downtime you have...

 

[glenn1]

I grew up in a small town in central IL. My graduating HS class had 48 people.

I've spent a decent amount of time in Chicago. Did a year in Phoenix. Lived in IA. Lived in Omaha. Been all over California, Colorado, Florida, Texas, and now live in central KY.

If there's anything I've picked up on a lot of that of that is that a lot of people regardless of city size don't venture out often in their own towns outside of their comfort zone. I'm used to to driving...A LOT. And it was no big deal for me to drive from one side of Phoenix to the other...that was almost a 50 mile drive to from the far east side of Mesa all the way over to Avondale. Local people would make that seem like you were driving to another country. Same with people in Chicago....go a few suburbs out and they act like it's a different state. Heaven forbid they travel south of I-80 to "Southern IL".

Meh.

Point is, nearly everyone tends to curl up into a comfort zone. Big city or small and not venture outside of it. Being in a big city doesn't necessarily make a person more cultured, educated or experienced.

Just my $$

I'm in an interracial marriage so my wife and I have direct experience with that. We went to my niece's wedding somewhere in rural Indiana and probably immediately increased the diversity factor by 50% or so. Kinda like theoatmeal cartoon below, it was my wife and the local couple who owned the takeout restaurant was probably it. So OP probably will need to be a bit of a cultural ambassador to people who have little experience with others having different backgrounds. As someone else pointed out, many Americans will never travel beyond 100km from where they were born. Thus you'll need to be willing to answer stupid questions repeatedly and hopefully be talking to people with open minds. Who knows, maybe OP will actually help the locals have an interest in the outside world for a change and they in turn can wow their friends with their knowledge of super exotic concepts like Diwali, Eid-al-Fitr, or Doljabi.

 

[iRONic]

Any recommendations? I generally find the food bland and the culture not my thing (shopping seems to be a primary recreational activity).

Head across the bridge to Council Bluffs, IA. Dixie Quick's offers an awesome Sunday brunch. My daughter used to be a server there.

Dixie Quick's