How to change up my routine?

[MegaVovaN]

Yup, another "I want my bicept peak" thread

So I've been doing slightly modified SS for about 3 months now.

3x5 all but pullups, which are 5x5 and weighted (currently bw +30 lb). Pullups = pullups/chinups/hammer grip. I do one workout of each, then add 2.5 lb

DayA:
Squats
Bench
DL
Pullups

DayB:
Squats
Press
Pullups

Shoulders outgrew bicep - Side shot - unhappy with bicep size, I am slouching here, ignore sticking out shoulder blades.


So what I want to do is replace pullups on DayB with some type of bicep curl.
1. work bicep
2. I hate doing pullups on dayB because my shoulders already are a beat from OH press.

So what kind of curling should I do? I was thinking straight bar, 2 handed curls, 3x5 with big weight. Eventually try ONE handed barbell curls (when I can curl 45 lb with each arm).

If you're curious, here is my work weight so far: squats - 170 lb, DL 215, bench 150, ohp 100.
Yay, Nay, suggestions? What you all think?

 

[bearnet2001]

Your workout is pretty lol, squats/bench/DL on the same day? There is no way you can properly work all those muscle groups together -> you may think you are, but if they were on separate days you would be able to lift a lot more in each. I'm not sure what 'SS' is but if you are doing your A/B days at all close together you are def overtraining. You also aren't working your entire body properly: you have no rowing movements, no trap work besides being a helper muscle in some compound lifts, and obv a lack of arm isolation.

You obviously don't want to be one of those 'bench and curl' guys, but there is an ideal middle ground between being the bench/curl guy and being someone who only does basic compound movements. Anyway my advice is to completely retool your workouts as right now they suck due to the above mentioned reasons.

I currently do the following workout (big muscle groups: aim for 5-8 reps before failure, small muscle groups 10-12 reps before failure):

Day A:

Flat Bench press, 2 sets
Incline Dumbbell press, 2 sets,
Wide grip dips, 2 sets
Shoulder press, 2 sets,
Lateral raise, 1 set
Tricep Pushdown, 2 sets
Skullcrushers (tricep exercise), 1 set

Day B:

Deadlifts, 2 sets
Wide grip pull ups, 2 sets
Bent over rows, 2 sets
Shrugs, 2 sets
Standing bar curls, 2 sets
Sitting hammer curls, 1 set
Forearm curls, 1 set

Day C:

Squats, 2 sets,
45 Leg press, 2 sets
Hamstring lying curls, 2 sets
Standing calf raises, 2 sets
Sitting calf raises, 1 set
Rope crunches (abs), 2 sets
Lying crunches (diagonal to work obliques), 1 set

Originally this was supposed to be:

Mon: Day A
Wed: Day B
Fri: Day C

Rest off.

But I switched it up so it goes

Mon: A
Tues: B
Wed: C
Thurs: Off
Fri: A
Sat: B
Sun: Off

Mon: C
Tues: A
Wed: B
Thurs: Off
etc..

Key to this workout is INTENSITY. You go to absolute failure every set. There is no way you can do 5 sets of squats or whatever if you are going to absolute failure every set, barring 5+ min rest periods between sets -> if you can re-rack the bar during your last rep of any exercise, you didn't go to failure.

So I workout 5 out of 7 days a week, and each bodypart gets worked 2 out of every 8-9 days, for 3-4 days rest in between. I thought the original 3times a week was too long in between but I'll see if my new routine works. I was definitely getting great results on the first routine though.

Note that there is no scientific evidence that doing more than one set helps with building muscle: a scientific study found that doing more than one set gave something like 2-3% more muscle in a sample group than a group that did just one set of the same exercise over extended time. I do 2 sets of most exercises to cover for that anyway, but doing 3+ sets is just wasting your time. The people who got big and swear by 3+ sets per exercise would have gotten big doing less sets too, they just don't realize it, but the scientific studies are clear in that they are effectively useless after the first set, and def after the second set.

 

[bearnet2001]

By the way, I'd post on bodybuilding.com if I were you. I wouldn't ask for advice on what are good overclocking MOBOs over there, and I wouldn't ask for building muscle advice over here, even in the sub-forum.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: bearnet2001
Your workout is pretty lol, squats/bench/DL on the same day? There is no way you can properly work all those muscle groups together -> you may think you are, but if they were on separate days you would be able to lift a lot more in each. I'm not sure what 'SS' is but if you are doing your A/B days at all close together you are def overtraining. You also aren't working your entire body properly: you have no rowing movements, no trap work besides being a helper muscle in some compound lifts, and obv a lack of arm isolation.

You obviously don't want to be one of those 'bench and curl' guys, but there is an ideal middle ground between being the bench/curl guy and being someone who only does basic compound movements. Anyway my advice is to completely retool your workouts as right now they suck due to the above mentioned reasons.

I currently do the following workout (big muscle groups: aim for 5-8 reps before failure, small muscle groups 10-12 reps before failure):

Day A:

Flat Bench press, 2 sets
Incline Dumbbell press, 2 sets,
Wide grip dips, 2 sets
Shoulder press, 2 sets,
Lateral raise, 1 set
Tricep Pushdown, 2 sets
Skullcrushers (tricep exercise), 1 set

Day B:

Deadlifts, 2 sets
Wide grip pull ups, 2 sets
Bent over rows, 2 sets
Shrugs, 2 sets
Standing bar curls, 2 sets
Sitting hammer curls, 1 set
Forearm curls, 1 set

Day C:

Squats, 2 sets,
45 Leg press, 2 sets
Hamstring lying curls, 2 sets
Standing calf raises, 2 sets
Sitting calf raises, 1 set
Rope crunches (abs), 2 sets
Lying crunches (diagonal to work obliques), 1 set

Originally this was supposed to be:

Mon: Day A
Wed: Day B
Fri: Day C

Rest off.

But I switched it up so it goes

Mon: A
Tues: B
Wed: C
Thurs: Off
Fri: A
Sat: B
Sun: Off

Mon: C
Tues: A
Wed: B
Thurs: Off
etc..

Key to this workout is INTENSITY. You go to absolute failure every set. There is no way you can do 5 sets of squats or whatever if you are going to absolute failure every set, barring 5+ min rest periods between sets -> if you can re-rack the bar during your last rep of any exercise, you didn't go to failure.

So I workout 5 out of 7 days a week, and each bodypart gets worked 2 out of every 8-9 days, for 3-4 days rest in between. I thought the original 3times a week was too long in between but I'll see if my new routine works. I was definitely getting great results on the first routine though.

Note that there is no scientific evidence that doing more than one set helps with building muscle: a scientific study found that doing more than one set gave something like 2-3% more muscle in a sample group than a group that did just one set of the same exercise over extended time. I do 2 sets of most exercises to cover for that anyway, but doing 3+ sets is just wasting your time. The people who got big and swear by 3+ sets per exercise would have gotten big doing less sets too, they just don't realize it, but the scientific studies are clear in that they are effectively useless after the first set, and def after the second set.

Thanks for the advice, but I am not willing to retool whole routine right now. What you posted sounds like bodybuilding routine, and I am still building basic strength "foundation" on compound lifts. SS is Starting Strength, and this subforum is full of fans of it. SS is workout I listed except instead of pullups on both days it recommends rows or power cleans on day B. Reasoning for no rows is that rows are a pulling movement, and so are pullups. So I switched rows for pullups (I am afraid of bent over rows/their strain on lower back).

I am skeptical about scientific studies claiming 1 set is enough - if you could provide links I would take a look at them.

Doing to failure and with schedule you listed (consecutive days) is completely contradictory to Starting Strength. SS is M-W-F type workout.

I asked how to make a small change, and you suggest a full, completely different routine. It's like telling somebody that is curious how to run longer to swim.

 

[presidentender]

You need biceps concentration exercises: curls, curls, curls. I like preacher curls, which a lot of people dog for being essentially single-muscle exercises, but that's what you want here. Standing dumbbell or barbell curls also involve your anterior delts, and it's easier to cheat on them.

By the way, if you're saying this type of thing, you care about how you look. You might consider a bodybuilding routine.

 

[MegaVovaN]

I might consider BB routine later on, when I stop getting such massive/quick strength gains on compounds.
So standing BB curls are out because it's easy to cheat on them?

 

[brikis98]

If you have the SS book, some of the following will be repeat. However, it's still worth mentioning:

1. Looking at the pic - and I honestly mean no offense - it doesn't look like you have a lot of muscle mass anywhere on your body, including the biceps. At your stage of lifting (based on your appearance & numbers), it is too early for you to start worrying about the size of specific muscle groups. You need to gain size ALL OVER - which will come primarily from doing these heavy compound lifts (esp the squat + deadlift) - and with that, the biceps will come. You picked an excellent beginners program and if you give it time, you will see great gains.

2. Diet, as much as anything, will be a huge component of adding this muscle mass. I believe the rule of thumb was you need to gain ~10lbs to add 1 inch to your bicep. It looks like you are very cut, so you could use some good bulking to add some serious mass. Track your diet on something like fitday.com and eat a moderate calorie surplus. Eat a lot of protein, at least ~1 gram per pound of bodyweight. A relatively simple way to do this, as recommended in the SS book, is to drink 1 gallon of milk per day. It's not easy (or cheap), but it's not unusual to add 40-60lbs solely by adding this amount of milk to your diet and squatting 3 times per week. You don't have to be that hard core, but if you aren't eating a surplus, regardless of your routine, you won't gain any mass anywhere, including the biceps.

3. The goal of SS is to improve, as much as possible, your core lifts: the squat, deadlift, bench, press and power clean. Everything else - including pull-ups - is assistance work and should be done at the end of the workout and NEVER at the cost of the primary lifts. Just out of curiosity, why is the power clean missing from your routine?

4. Pull-ups and especially chin-ups should develop your biceps a fair amount. As they are assistance, you typically do them for 3 sets of 8.

5. Having said all that, assuming that you are making good progress on your core lifts and your body is adapting well, it will not harm you to add some bicep work at the end of one of the workout days. In general, the heavier you go, the better, so the barbell curl is an excellent choice for biceps. Rippetoe says himself that he expects guys to do bicep curls anyway and recommends we do them properly. You start the rep at the TOP - that is, with your arms completely bent and the weight up by your chest - and work your way down. This stretches out the bicep and when you get to the bottom, you can use the spring reflex to move the weight back up. You do this for 3 sets of 8.

 

[bearnet2001]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN

Originally posted by: bearnet2001
Your workout is pretty lol, squats/bench/DL on the same day? There is no way you can properly work all those muscle groups together -> you may think you are, but if they were on separate days you would be able to lift a lot more in each. I'm not sure what 'SS' is but if you are doing your A/B days at all close together you are def overtraining. You also aren't working your entire body properly: you have no rowing movements, no trap work besides being a helper muscle in some compound lifts, and obv a lack of arm isolation.

You obviously don't want to be one of those 'bench and curl' guys, but there is an ideal middle ground between being the bench/curl guy and being someone who only does basic compound movements. Anyway my advice is to completely retool your workouts as right now they suck due to the above mentioned reasons.

I currently do the following workout (big muscle groups: aim for 5-8 reps before failure, small muscle groups 10-12 reps before failure):

Day A:

Flat Bench press, 2 sets
Incline Dumbbell press, 2 sets,
Wide grip dips, 2 sets
Shoulder press, 2 sets,
Lateral raise, 1 set
Tricep Pushdown, 2 sets
Skullcrushers (tricep exercise), 1 set

Day B:

Deadlifts, 2 sets
Wide grip pull ups, 2 sets
Bent over rows, 2 sets
Shrugs, 2 sets
Standing bar curls, 2 sets
Sitting hammer curls, 1 set
Forearm curls, 1 set

Day C:

Squats, 2 sets,
45 Leg press, 2 sets
Hamstring lying curls, 2 sets
Standing calf raises, 2 sets
Sitting calf raises, 1 set
Rope crunches (abs), 2 sets
Lying crunches (diagonal to work obliques), 1 set

Originally this was supposed to be:

Mon: Day A
Wed: Day B
Fri: Day C

Rest off.

But I switched it up so it goes

Mon: A
Tues: B
Wed: C
Thurs: Off
Fri: A
Sat: B
Sun: Off

Mon: C
Tues: A
Wed: B
Thurs: Off
etc..

Key to this workout is INTENSITY. You go to absolute failure every set. There is no way you can do 5 sets of squats or whatever if you are going to absolute failure every set, barring 5+ min rest periods between sets -> if you can re-rack the bar during your last rep of any exercise, you didn't go to failure.

So I workout 5 out of 7 days a week, and each bodypart gets worked 2 out of every 8-9 days, for 3-4 days rest in between. I thought the original 3times a week was too long in between but I'll see if my new routine works. I was definitely getting great results on the first routine though.

Note that there is no scientific evidence that doing more than one set helps with building muscle: a scientific study found that doing more than one set gave something like 2-3% more muscle in a sample group than a group that did just one set of the same exercise over extended time. I do 2 sets of most exercises to cover for that anyway, but doing 3+ sets is just wasting your time. The people who got big and swear by 3+ sets per exercise would have gotten big doing less sets too, they just don't realize it, but the scientific studies are clear in that they are effectively useless after the first set, and def after the second set.

Thanks for the advice, but I am not willing to retool whole routine right now. What you posted sounds like bodybuilding routine, and I am still building basic strength "foundation" on compound lifts. SS is Starting Strength, and this subforum is full of fans of it. SS is workout I listed except instead of pullups on both days it recommends rows or power cleans on day B. Reasoning for no rows is that rows are a pulling movement, and so are pullups. So I switched rows for pullups (I am afraid of bent over rows/their strain on lower back).

I am skeptical about scientific studies claiming 1 set is enough - if you could provide links I would take a look at them.

Doing to failure and with schedule you listed (consecutive days) is completely contradictory to Starting Strength. SS is M-W-F type workout.

I asked how to make a small change, and you suggest a full, completely different routine. It's like telling somebody that is curious how to run longer to swim.

My mistake, I assumed you were doing this for bodybuilding (mentioned I did not know what SS stood for). Actually, part of my assumption in that came from your post: the point of your post is asking about how to increase your bicep size relative to your triceps, shoulders, which is a bodybuilding question: if you are about strength, why do you care about how your bicep looks?

That question is still relevant. As for building strength, I don't know much about it but I'd check out the sports training or powerlifting or strongman subsections of bodybuilding.com: they are very active and there are certainly tons of people doing what you are doing or have done what you have done and can give fuller answers.

 

[bearnet2001]

As for the one set vs multiple sets, I've known about it for a long time. I googled it now and found this small HTML summary, which references a bunch of scientific studies and summarizes there findings. The basic conclusion is that multiple sets might provide slightly more endurance gains than single set workouts, but that in terms of hypertrophy (ie muscle growth), a single set is as good as three sets.

http://cbass.com/NEWEVIDE.HTM

 

[bearnet2001]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
I might consider BB routine later on, when I stop getting such massive/quick strength gains on compounds.
So standing BB curls are out because it's easy to cheat on them?

Why are you interested in strength gains? From reading your posts and replies in here you seem to be very looks-oriented (ie bodybuilding minded).

Bodybuilding also includes core lifts. As you can see from my posted routine, I'm doing all of your exercises, except I've just added some more to take care of the muscles that aren't being properly developed by the exercises you have (ie I have shrugs for traps, curls for biceps, pushdowns for triceps, calf raises for calves, etc).

I think you really need to ask yourself why you are working out: do you want strength or a better looking body, as a priority? Obviously you'll get a better looking body from your routine and I'll develop strength from my routine, but what's your number one priority?

Let me simplify it: If you get from your training:

A) Extreme strength but look EXACTLY the same as when you started (ie you don't appear different but are MUCH stronger)

or

B) Have the body that looks like you want it to look in your dreams but have the same strength as what you started before you started working out

... which would you choose? Obviously both choices are impossible: you'll gain in size/strength from either a strength or bodybuilding focuses routine, but my question focuses on your priority. Do you really want to look like you started but know you are strong, or do you want to look super sexy to women on the beach/nude but have your starting strength? I would definitely prefer the better looking body, which is why I have a bodybuilding focused routine.

 

[bearnet2001]

Oh and I'm not breaking any rules with my routine: in the first routine I'm going MWF, in the second one I'm going 5 days a week but every body part is getting 3-4 days of rest between workouts -> ie its a split routine, every day works different muscle groups with no overlap.

 

[bearnet2001]

I should provide the basic answer you wanted too: from a bodybuilding perspective, standing barbell curls are the staple overall bicep 'mass building' exercise for biceps. That you can cheat on them is irrelevant unless you have poor personal discipline: just get the form down (very easy), then make sure you don't cheat by swinging your back or upper arms around. They are a very simple exercise (as most isolations are). The other alternative exercise is preacher curls, which are considered to be better at creating a bicep peak than creating overall mass. They are a very complete isolation exercise and basically uncheatable, and they feel great, but since you seem to want general bicep mass increase I'd go for standing barbell curls.

Make sure you monitor your bicep vs tricep strength and size though, as you'll be doing an awkward routine where you are doing an isolation exercise for your biceps but not the triceps: you should logically end up with biceps that are too large compared to your triceps if you keep it up for a long enough time, and that can be bad both for health and looks.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

First of all, you're flexing the opposite muscles so it makes your bicep look smaller than it really is. Other than that, I'd say add 2 exercises every other workout. You could do 3x5 of hammer curls, DB curls, DB incline curls, straight bar curls, curl bar curls, etc and then do 3x5 of one you didn't do. Preacher curls are lame since they are extremely isolating. Be careful with straight bar curls 'cause that may damage your forearms/wrists since it's not a natural position for the arm. I had pain while doing them, so I subbed another curling exercise in.

Also, bearnet, it's a poor idea to go to failure all the time. I did that on the MAX-OT program and got central nervous system fatigue, which is less than enjoyable. Going to failure really promotes and accelerates that whole process. I agree that one should push the weight, but don't think one should fail every single set.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
I might consider BB routine later on, when I stop getting such massive/quick strength gains on compounds.
So standing BB curls are out because it's easy to cheat on them?

No. They're my favorite. They do, however, throw secondary stress onto muscles you don't need more work on (anterior delts, which you're hitting with OH press).

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
First of all, you're flexing the opposite muscles so it makes your bicep look smaller than it really is. Other than that, I'd say add 2 exercises every other workout. You could do 3x5 of hammer curls, DB curls, DB incline curls, straight bar curls, curl bar curls, etc and then do 3x5 of one you didn't do. Preacher curls are lame since they are extremely isolating. Be careful with straight bar curls 'cause that may damage your forearms/wrists since it's not a natural position for the arm. I had pain while doing them, so I subbed another curling exercise in.

Also, bearnet, it's a poor idea to go to failure all the time. I did that on the MAX-OT program and got central nervous system fatigue, which is less than enjoyable. Going to failure really promotes and accelerates that whole process. I agree that one should push the weight, but don't think one should fail every single set.

I think he's flexing everything in the shot.

I can back up the "central nervous system fatigue" thing. It sucks. Do failure often, but not every single time.

As for "preacher curls are lame," he wants biceps. Why not isolate biceps?

 

[MegaVovaN]

I can take another shot completely relaxed, if you all like.

Bodybuilding vs. Strengthlifting: it is a difficult question, since subconsciously everyone wants to be bigger. But logically, I want strength more than beach body, since to get awesome body I would need to gain like 50 lbs of muscle, and it will be a PITA to drag those extra 50 lbs around when running/swimming/biking (I'm pretty good/active at those 3 cardio exercises). So I want large strength per unit of weight. I'm stil lgoing to get weight with strength routine, but that would not be my main goal - to get weight.

Diet: I am not tracking what and how much I eat, I just eat a lot. And it shows - parents complain and make jokes about how much I eat (lol) and I gained 7 lb in 3 months (145 --> 152).

Power Cleans: they are missing from my workout because I do not ahve anybody to teach me to do them properly (and can't afford trainer ATM). I decided to wait for opportunity to learn them right than to learn incorrectly and then having to re-learn.

Pullups/rows: I took idea of 5x5 pullups with weight from Stronglifts.com . I do not like idea of bent over BB rows, power cleans are out (see above), so I guess I can do one handed DB bent over rows or cable rows? ...

Bicep exercises: I think it's a good idea to do various bicep exercises, say 2 different exercises on day B, like SociallyChallenged says. Question: how many sets and reps on those two? One set of 8 reps for each?

One set study: I'l ltake a look at it.

Got to go to class now...keep replies coming!

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Diet: I am not tracking what and how much I eat, I just eat a lot. And it shows - parents complain and make jokes about how much I eat (lol) and I gained 7 lb in 3 months (145 --> 152).

7 pounds in 3 months? I think that is CLEAR proof that you are NOT eating enough. The 1 gallon per day of milk program could add 7 pounds in 2 weeks. Even if you go half that pace, you'd still be tripling your current results.

This is definitely a trend with skinny guys that say they "eat a lot". I have a friend who looks a lot like you, claims to "eat a ton" but he never gains an ounce. I watched his diet for a few days: he completely skips breakfast, eats a massive lunch, and has at most a sandwich and ice cream for dinner. Total calories, almost all coming from lunch, were probably well under 1500. Just because you feel full or eat 1 big meal in a day does not mean you're eating enough to produce results.

Seriously, do yourself a favor, and track everything you eat for a couple of weeks on something like fitday.com. You may be surprised to find out just how little you actually eat compared to how much energy you burn. And once you get your diet sorted out, you'll be surprised just how quickly you'll add mass by doing SS.

 

[purbeast0]

yea i agree with brikis. 7lb in 3 months is like 1lb every 2 weeks, which is not much at all.

i was gaining like 1-2lb's weekly when I was bulking, but i kind of plateaued and stayed around a current weight for quite some time.

 

[MegaVovaN]

All right brikis, as soon as I can afford food scale I'll start tracking. It's not going to be easy with the non standard home cooked meals (most of them not cooked by me).

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
First of all, you're flexing the opposite muscles so it makes your bicep look smaller than it really is. Other than that, I'd say add 2 exercises every other workout. You could do 3x5 of hammer curls, DB curls, DB incline curls, straight bar curls, curl bar curls, etc and then do 3x5 of one you didn't do. Preacher curls are lame since they are extremely isolating. Be careful with straight bar curls 'cause that may damage your forearms/wrists since it's not a natural position for the arm. I had pain while doing them, so I subbed another curling exercise in.

Also, bearnet, it's a poor idea to go to failure all the time. I did that on the MAX-OT program and got central nervous system fatigue, which is less than enjoyable. Going to failure really promotes and accelerates that whole process. I agree that one should push the weight, but don't think one should fail every single set.

I think he's flexing everything in the shot.

I can back up the "central nervous system fatigue" thing. It sucks. Do failure often, but not every single time.

As for "preacher curls are lame," he wants biceps. Why not isolate biceps?

You can't flex your bicep and tricep at the same time, so he's not flexing everything I actually say do failure rarely. Know your strength and increase the weight accordingly so you can do 5 reps fine - maybe fail the last rep on a 3x5.

Also, I've noticed that preacher curls can hyperextend the elbow. Also, since they are isolating, they limit the amount that you can tax your body. For maximal muscle growth in general, you want to tax your body overall. As said by MAX-OT, "Isolation limits overload. Limited overload limits growth." I have to say I agree.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
First of all, you're flexing the opposite muscles so it makes your bicep look smaller than it really is. Other than that, I'd say add 2 exercises every other workout. You could do 3x5 of hammer curls, DB curls, DB incline curls, straight bar curls, curl bar curls, etc and then do 3x5 of one you didn't do. Preacher curls are lame since they are extremely isolating. Be careful with straight bar curls 'cause that may damage your forearms/wrists since it's not a natural position for the arm. I had pain while doing them, so I subbed another curling exercise in.

Also, bearnet, it's a poor idea to go to failure all the time. I did that on the MAX-OT program and got central nervous system fatigue, which is less than enjoyable. Going to failure really promotes and accelerates that whole process. I agree that one should push the weight, but don't think one should fail every single set.

I think he's flexing everything in the shot.

I can back up the "central nervous system fatigue" thing. It sucks. Do failure often, but not every single time.

As for "preacher curls are lame," he wants biceps. Why not isolate biceps?

You can't flex your bicep and tricep at the same time, so he's not flexing everything I actually say do failure rarely. Know your strength and increase the weight accordingly so you can do 5 reps fine - maybe fail the last rep on a 3x5.

Also, I've noticed that preacher curls can hyperextend the elbow. Also, since they are isolating, they limit the amount that you can tax your body. For maximal muscle growth in general, you want to tax your body overall. As said by MAX-OT, "Isolation limits overload. Limited overload limits growth." I have to say I agree.

You stay at a a Holiday Inn or something?

Yeah Preacher Curls can hyperextend your elbow.. if not performed correctly or done with too much weight. They are also an excellent isolation exerecise for the Biceps and when added with standing Bumbell curls or Hammer curls help hit all the muscles that make up your bicep. I prefer to do them when I do my back exercises as you use those same muscles for those exercises (Like Rows and Chin Ups). You might even want to mix it up on alternating weeks, one week do Hammer curls, the next do standing Dumbell or Barbell curls, one week do preacher curls and occasionally do drop sets to get a real pump and burn.

Also keep in mind a lot of it depends on your genetics and also the amount of food you consume, like was mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

You can't flex your bicep and tricep at the same time

Okay, okay, for a given value of flex. But you can contract the muscle fibers in antagonistic muscles at the same time, and he is doing that.

 

[KoolDrew]

brikis's first post was a good one, listen to it. However, I don't completely agree with 7lbs in 3 months being too slow though. When I try to bulk I keep my weight gain around 0.5-1lb a week to prevent much fat gain and that is right in that range. You want to add muscle mass, not fat mass. If you gain 7 pounds in one week, there's no way in hell most of that is muscle. Muscle can only be built so fast, having too much of a calorie surplus will just cause unnecessary fat gain and considering you're pretty cut right now, I doubt you want to gain much fat. Keep in mind you will gain some fat, but the idea is to keep fat gain to a minimal amount.

You're gaining weight and I'm assuming you're making strength gains, so just continue what you're doing, adding in some isolation work if you wish, but don't overdo it. I'd probably just add some arm work on Friday's to give your arms extra rest over the weekend. Say about two sets of 8-12 or whatever. You may want to start tracking what you eat just to make sure protein is where it should be, but if you're getting enough protein (1g per pound of bw) and gaining 7 pounds every 3 months, most of that will be muscle and I'd say you're making good progress.

Also, I'd definitely add rows. There's nothing wrong with cable rows either. In fact, right now I do cable rows instead since RDL's, back squats, and rows on the same day would be too much on my lower back.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

Also, I'd definitely add rows. There's nothing wrong with cable rows either. In fact, right now I do cable rows instead since RDL's, back squats, and rows on the same day would be too much on my lower back.

What workout are you on that has those three on the same day?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
brikis's first post was a good one, listen to it. However, I don't completely agree with 7lbs in 3 months being too slow though. When I try to bulk I keep my weight gain around 0.5-1lb a week to prevent much fat gain and that is right in that range. You want to add muscle mass, not fat mass. If you gain 7 pounds in one week, there's no way in hell most of that is muscle. Muscle can only be built so fast, having too much of a calorie surplus will just cause unnecessary fat gain and considering you're pretty cut right now, I doubt you want to gain much fat. Keep in mind you will gain some fat, but the idea is to keep fat gain to a minimal amount.

You're gaining weight and I'm assuming you're making strength gains, so just continue what you're doing, adding in some isolation work if you wish, but don't overdo it. I'd probably just add some arm work on Friday's to give your arms extra rest over the weekend. Say about two sets of 8-12 or whatever. You may want to start tracking what you eat just to make sure protein is where it should be, but if you're getting enough protein (1g per pound of bw) and gaining 7 pounds every 3 months, most of that will be muscle and I'd say you're making good progress.

Also, I'd definitely add rows. There's nothing wrong with cable rows either. In fact, right now I do cable rows instead since RDL's, back squats, and rows on the same day would be too much on my lower back.

I completely agree with not overdoing it on the diet. It's easy to overshoot and add a lot of flab to your body instead of muscle.

However, I still argue 7lbs over 3 months is a slow pace:

1. If these 7lbs were 100% pure muscle and he kept this up every 3 months, that would be 28lbs of muscle per year, which is very respectable. However, his numbers indicate he is a beginner, so he just got through the fastest gains he will ever have in his life. Things are only going to slow down from here, so the likelihood of him maintaining even this pace on the same diet is pretty low.

2. Realistically, I think it's very unlikely that the 7lbs actually are pure muscle. Such a small amount can be affected by fat, water weight, increased bone density, scale inaccuracy, even weighing yourself at different times of the day. Hell, my weight easily fluctuates 5lbs per day.

3. I don't actually know biology well enough to say at what rate muscle can physically grow - do you? The "7 pounds" I mentioned was actually over a two week period (not one week) and I'd be curious how much of that, according to biology & physics, could be pure muscle mass? At any rate, 7lbs is certainly a huge amount, but not an uncommon one when drinking 1 gallon of milk a day.

Of course, having said that, the key is clearly to track the diet and eat a reasonable calorie surplus with plenty of protein (rather than just guessing and say "I eat a lot"). You don't need to be as hard core as 1 gallon a day, as that's likely overkill, but I'd argue that the results would be much more significant - on biceps and everywhere else - with a moderate increase.