How to beat the high gas prices forever

[So]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: So
Plus, hydrogen is not exactly 'green' -- H2O is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, any day. what we need is a way to make a fuel using electricity + some abundant carbon rich resource (producing synthetic petrolieum or some form of ethanol) that can burn in standard engines.

H2O a greenhouse gas? 😕

I'd say so. Think how much more heat energy is retained on a humid day than a dry one. Now, imagine if the humidity in L.A. shot up >10% because every car put out H2O vapor. Tell me that is better than CO2. It's not like you can breather water vapor better than CO2 either.

 

[So]

random search: http://www.espere.net/Unitedkingdom/water/uk_watervapour.html

It was a startling realization for me, I was a Huuuuge fan of the 'hydrogen economy' until I heard this.

Further: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Oh, hell:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Water+Vapor+as+greenhouse+gas&spell=1

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: So
Plus, hydrogen is not exactly 'green' -- H2O is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, any day. what we need is a way to make a fuel using electricity + some abundant carbon rich resource (producing synthetic petrolieum or some form of ethanol) that can burn in standard engines.

H2O a greenhouse gas? 😕

yes , its called "clouds" , you may have seen them up in the sky some days

these "clouds" hold in heat better than any CO2 or those other "greenhouse gases" do

have you noticed that on clear nights it cools off much more than "cloudy" nights? its those greenhouse gas "clouds" keeping the heat near the earth, not allowing it to reflect back into outside space

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: So
Plus, hydrogen is not exactly 'green' -- H2O is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, any day. what we need is a way to make a fuel using electricity + some abundant carbon rich resource (producing synthetic petrolieum or some form of ethanol) that can burn in standard engines.

H2O a greenhouse gas? 😕

yes , its called "clouds" , you may have seen them up in the sky some days

these "clouds" hold in heat better than any CO2 or those other "greenhouse gases" do

have you noticed that on clear nights it cools off much more than "cloudy" nights? its those greenhouse gas "clouds" keeping the heat near the earth, not allowing it to reflect back into outside space

Yes, be very fearful of H2O, it's going to the dead of us all. Nevada is so f@cking hot because of all the clouds covering the state all the time. I bet the summer is much hotter on a cloudy day vs on a sunny day.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: So
Plus, hydrogen is not exactly 'green' -- H2O is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, any day. what we need is a way to make a fuel using electricity + some abundant carbon rich resource (producing synthetic petrolieum or some form of ethanol) that can burn in standard engines.

H2O a greenhouse gas? 😕

yes , its called "clouds" , you may have seen them up in the sky some days

these "clouds" hold in heat better than any CO2 or those other "greenhouse gases" do

have you noticed that on clear nights it cools off much more than "cloudy" nights? its those greenhouse gas "clouds" keeping the heat near the earth, not allowing it to reflect back into outside space

Yes, be very fearful of H2O, it's going to the dead of us all. Nevada is so f@cking hot because of all the clouds covering the state all the time. I bet the summer is much hotter on a cloudy day vs on a sunny day.

I am less hot in NV when it is 120 than I am in New York when it is 95, and YES, I used to live in NY, and I currently live in NV.

Read the articles I linked, then spout off.

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: So
Plus, hydrogen is not exactly 'green' -- H2O is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, any day. what we need is a way to make a fuel using electricity + some abundant carbon rich resource (producing synthetic petrolieum or some form of ethanol) that can burn in standard engines.

H2O a greenhouse gas? 😕

yes , its called "clouds" , you may have seen them up in the sky some days

these "clouds" hold in heat better than any CO2 or those other "greenhouse gases" do

have you noticed that on clear nights it cools off much more than "cloudy" nights? its those greenhouse gas "clouds" keeping the heat near the earth, not allowing it to reflect back into outside space

Yes, be very fearful of H2O, it's going to the dead of us all. Nevada is so f@cking hot because of all the clouds covering the state all the time. I bet the summer is much hotter on a cloudy day vs on a sunny day.

I am less hot in NV when it is 120 than I am in New York when it is 95, and YES, I used to live in NY, and I currently live in NV.

Read the articles I linked, then spout off.

So New York is "feel" so hot that it is barren and Nevada is full of green forest and wildlife?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Pocatello
So New York is "feel" so hot that it is barren and Nevada is full of green forest and wildlife?

Heat doesn't make nevada barren, lack of water does. Look at the city. Wherever water appears, life springs up. Las Vegas means 'the meadows' -- because, near downtown there is a natural aquafier that produced a lush green meadow. Also, look at northern nevada, where I am at the moment. Many parts are just as barren as southern NV, just much colder.

Please, read the links I posted before you make more uneducated statements. Even check wikipedia, which is linked in the google search I posted.

 

[ijester]

Hydrogen would be an excellent source of energy. It gives off virtually no pollution at all, mostly water vapor, and would be cheap and easy to produce. The problem is that it is very explosively flammable.

 

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
We have a station here that has it at about $0.10 charper than regular.
One can also mix it about 50/50 with regular and use in in a vehicle safely every other tank ful.

better be a newer than 1990 ish car,
can't use without modifications in a carb. vehicle

{rejet/retime, different gas hoses,that can take the alcohol}

10-15 % alcohol is ok in a carbed vehicle

 

[imported_electron]

Originally posted by: ijester

Hydrogen would be an excellent source of energy. It gives off virtually no pollution at all, mostly water vapor, and would be cheap and easy to produce. The problem is that it is very explosively flammable.

Hydrogen isn't a source of energy AT ALL.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: ijester

Hydrogen would be an excellent source of energy. It gives off virtually no pollution at all, mostly water vapor, and would be cheap and easy to produce. The problem is that it is very explosively flammable.

Could you make/convert H2 without creating any pollution?

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

The article indicates that ethanol is cheaper than gas...so that would seem contradictory. Regardless, I'd be more than willing to spend more money on ethanol if it meant the money was going into farmers pockets and not the Middleeast.

it also produces fewer green house gasses and other pollutants.

But it uses more energy to produce it than you get back from it when used in cars/trucks. You spend more to get less out of it.

Is this based on studies which were done on corn conversion?

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: Queasy
1) Build more refineries
2) Explore domestic oil supplies including shale
3) Develop alternative sources
4) Build more nuclear power plants
4.5) Lose money for 20 years
5) Profit

Fixed.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: ijester

Hydrogen would be an excellent source of energy. It gives off virtually no pollution at all, mostly water vapor, and would be cheap and easy to produce. The problem is that it is very explosively flammable.

Please read what I've read. Water vapor IS pollution.

 

[Strk]

It would be nice if people would stop saying how E85 is cheaper.

 

[User1001]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
!! It takes more energy to create a gallon of ethanol that what you get out of it in energy.....................


🙁

It will always take more energy to create a fuel. If that wasn't the case then we would have perpetual motion machines.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: User1001
It will always take more energy to create a fuel. If that wasn't the case then we would have perpetual motion machines.

And the more energy comes from the sun. There are perpetual motion machines that get their energy from the sun.

 

[User1001]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: User1001
It will always take more energy to create a fuel. If that wasn't the case then we would have perpetual motion machines.

And the more energy comes from the sun. There are perpetual motion machines that get their energy from the sun.

That would not be a perpetual motion machine because the Sun's 'fuel' (not exactly the right word) will eventually run out. By definition a perpetual motion machine is at least 100% efficient (not possible) and will run for an infinite amount of time.

 

[statik213]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

at the low output currently today it is, but what happens on most Mass production lines? as you produce more, your output costs shrink correct?

'tis called economies of scale

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: ijester

Hydrogen would be an excellent source of energy. It gives off virtually no pollution at all, mostly water vapor, and would be cheap and easy to produce. The problem is that it is very explosively flammable.

The cheapest way to make hydrogen is to use other fuel sources, like coal natural gas and good old oil. Nuclear power is the only way to make it a feasible fuel source, and our country seems terrified of nuclear plants.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: ijester

Hydrogen would be an excellent source of energy. It gives off virtually no pollution at all, mostly water vapor, and would be cheap and easy to produce. The problem is that it is very explosively flammable.

Could you make/convert H2 without creating any pollution?

Exactly my point 30 posts ago before the whole "H20" greenhouse gas debate. While the car itself puts out only h20, where is the hydrogen coming from????? Until we get cold fusion or something that produces vast amounts of electricity cleanly and cheaply hydrogen is NOT the answer.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: ijester

Hydrogen would be an excellent source of energy. It gives off virtually no pollution at all, mostly water vapor, and would be cheap and easy to produce. The problem is that it is very explosively flammable.

The problem is how it is produced. Did you ever consider that? If you just look at the end use (ie in the vehicle) it looks pretty good. In the big picture, not so good.

 

[Chunkee]

need to switch all vehicles to biodisel

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: So
I'd say so. Think how much more heat energy is retained on a humid day than a dry one. Now, imagine if the humidity in L.A. shot up >10% because every car put out H2O vapor. Tell me that is better than CO2. It's not like you can breather water vapor better than CO2 either.

So suppose instead of exhausting the H2O it stored it in a separate tank to be condensed back into liquid form and then offloaded at a filling station?

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: So
I'd say so. Think how much more heat energy is retained on a humid day than a dry one. Now, imagine if the humidity in L.A. shot up >10% because every car put out H2O vapor. Tell me that is better than CO2. It's not like you can breather water vapor better than CO2 either.

So suppose instead of exhausting the H2O it stored it in a separate tank to be condensed back into liquid form and then offloaded at a filling station?

if it is condensed and not exhausted as water vapor, then you could just drink it. have a hose from the water tank up to the driver seat and the driver could drink the water when the water tank got too full. and when you get home at night, you could water your plants with the water. that would be good.