How to beat the high gas prices forever

[MikeMike]

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/...67959/index.htm?section=cnn_topstories

And have you heard about GM's yellow gas caps? In the next few weeks the auto giant is set to unveil an unlikely marketing campaign drawing attention to E85 and its E85-ready cars and trucks like the Chevy Avalanche. They will sport special yellow gas caps, and if you already own such a vehicle, GM will send you a gas cap free. California governor and Hummer owner Arnold Schwarzenegger is backing a ballot initiative that would encourage service stations to offer ethanol at the pump. Even big oil companies like Royal Dutch Shell and Exxon Mobil are funding ethanol research. Says Beth Lowry, GM's vice president for energy and environment: "People's perception used to be 'The agricultural lobby is very interested in it.' Now people are waking up and saying, 'This isn't just about the Midwest. This is about the U.S. as a whole.' " Adds Daniel Yergin, one of the country's top energy experts: "I don't think I've seen so many kinds of renewable energy fermenting and bubbling as right now. The very definition of oil is broadening."

 

[mugs]

/waits for Amused...

 

[tm37]

Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

 

[Strk]

They still need to use a better source than corn for ethanol though. The energy cost to produce fuel from corn doesn't exactly encourage the use of ethanol as much as other sources.

It sucks that Toyota, Honda ans Subaru don't have any cars capable of running E85.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

at the low output currently today it is, but what happens on most Mass production lines? as you produce more, your output costs shrink correct?

 

[ironcrotch]

Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

that won't matter when we run out of fossil fuels

 

[FoBoT]

my boss has a vehicle that can use that stuff and there is a couple stations within 10 miles of him, so i think he uses it quite a bit

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

The article indicates that ethanol is cheaper than gas...so that would seem contradictory. Regardless, I'd be more than willing to spend more money on ethanol if it meant the money was going into farmers pockets and not the Middleeast.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

The article indicates that ethanol is cheaper than gas...so that would seem contradictory. Regardless, I'd be more than willing to spend more money on ethanol if it meant the money was going into farmers pockets and not the Middleeast.

it also produces fewer green house gasses and other pollutants.

 

[Sundog]

Just as long as I can still get non-oxygenated and non-ethanol gas for non-vehicle engines.

 

[PricklyPete]

On a side note, I had a GMC Yukon that took Ethanol gas and I would have been filling it up every day if I had a filling station nearby that had ethanol available...unfortunately I did not.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.

at the low output currently today it is, but what happens on most Mass production lines? as you produce more, your output costs shrink correct?

I don't know... It'll make more blends for the already tight refineries to produce. Also, isn't it more difficult to process at the refinery?

 

[EagleKeeper]

We have a station here that has it at about $0.10 charper than regular.
One can also mix it about 50/50 with regular and use in in a vehicle safely every other tank ful.

 

[radioouman]

Just wait until we have a drought, corn production is at a low, and ethanol prices will skyrocket.

 

[Syringer]

Anything to transition away from middle east oil dependency.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Syringer
Anything to transition away from middle east oil dependency.

Most of our oil doesn't come from the Middle East.

 

[Queasy]

1) Build more refineries
2) Explore domestic oil supplies including shale
3) Develop alternative sources
4) Build more nuclear power plants
5) Profit

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: Syringer
Anything to transition away from middle east oil dependency.

Most of our oil doesn't come from the Middle East.

yea, it comes from Argentina.

now, if only we could begin to harvest the oil sands up in Canada.

 

[StevenYoo]

Originally posted by: Queasy
1) Build more refineries
2) Explore domestic oil supplies including shale
3) Develop alternative sources
4) Build more nuclear power plants
5) Profit

6) get cold fusion working

 

[SaturnX]

As mentioned already in this thread, E85 is more expensive than regular gasoline at this moment in time. Our university's got a Gas/E85/Propane capable Chevy Silverado.

The big issue with E85 is the time it takes to grow the corn required for processing. So unless there's a SUBSTANTIAL (realistically isn't very possible, but who knows) amount of corn being grown, North American couldn't transition to E85 since we'd drain the supply too quickly.

In my opinion, E85 isn't viable, in all honesty, I see more promise from Hydrogen Fuel (again my Uni is redesigning a GM SUV to run entirely on Hydrogen fuel cells)

--Mark

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: SaturnX
As mentioned already in this thread, E85 is more expensive than regular gasoline at this moment in time. Our university's got a Gas/E85/Propane capable Chevy Silverado.

The big issue with E85 is the time it takes to grow the corn required for processing. So unless there's a SUBSTANTIAL (realistically isn't very possible, but who knows) amount of corn being grown, North American couldn't transition to E85 since we'd drain the supply too quickly.

In my opinion, E85 isn't viable, in all honesty, I see more promise from Hydrogen Fuel (again my Uni is redesigning a GM SUV to run entirely on Hydrogen fuel cells)

--Mark

E85 is NOT more expensive, if you go look at prices, you can get it for MUCH less, anywhere from .10 per gallon, to half price.

 

[Analog]

!! It takes more energy to create a gallon of ethanol that what you get out of it in energy.....................

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
!! It takes more energy to create a gallon of ethanol that what you get out of it in energy.....................

Isn't that only for corn-based ethanol though? Which doesn't matter, since our government would rather pander to the farmers than use the source that is a better alternative.

 

[PingSpike]

Yellow gas caps? Is the only way to get Americans to do something intelligent these days to attach some sort of attention whoring to the act?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Strk
They still need to use a better source than corn for ethanol though. The energy cost to produce fuel from corn doesn't exactly encourage the use of ethanol as much as other sources.

It sucks that Toyota, Honda ans Subaru don't have any cars capable of running E85.

You may already be driving a Flexible Fuel vehicle (FFV) and not know it!

Things have changed a lot for engines made in the last ten years: most cars now already have a computer chip that controls the fuel injection and timing. Many are already setup to use E-85 fuel (85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline) with no change to the engine whatsoever! The built-in O2 sensors measure the Oxygen content of the fuel (since there are a lot of fuel blend combinations, according to if it is summer or winter, or which state you live in). This means that you can make your own E-85 and go. When you need to re-fuel, just buy normal gasoline again, and the engine will automatically compensate. This is what a Flexible Fuel vehicle is all about. But check with your owners' manuel before you try this, or ask the mechanic at your dealership.

It's only going to take a remap to 'convert' an engine. A back street garage can remap any modern car with a flashable ECU, so how hard do you think it will be for the above mentioned manufacturers?