How to beat the high gas prices forever

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MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: Strk
They still need to use a better source than corn for ethanol though. The energy cost to produce fuel from corn doesn't exactly encourage the use of ethanol as much as other sources.

It sucks that Toyota, Honda ans Subaru don't have any cars capable of running E85.
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You may already be driving a Flexible Fuel vehicle (FFV) and not know it!

Things have changed a lot for engines made in the last ten years: most cars now already have a computer chip that controls the fuel injection and timing. Many are already setup to use E-85 fuel (85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline) with no change to the engine whatsoever! The built-in O2 sensors measure the Oxygen content of the fuel (since there are a lot of fuel blend combinations, according to if it is summer or winter, or which state you live in). This means that you can make your own E-85 and go. When you need to re-fuel, just buy normal gasoline again, and the engine will automatically compensate. This is what a Flexible Fuel vehicle is all about. But check with your owners' manuel before you try this, or ask the mechanic at your dealership.
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It's only going to take a remap to 'convert' an engine. A back street garage can remap any modern car with a flashable ECU, so how hard do you think it will be for the above mentioned manufacturers?
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true Ethanol however is more corrosive, your hoses, and fuel tank needs to be able to withstand it.
 
nakedfrog

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,170
19,507
136
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Yellow gas caps? Is the only way to get Americans to do something intelligent these days to attach some sort of attention whoring to the act?
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It will match their Livestrong bracelet wonderfully :p
 
I

iwantanewcomputer

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2004
5,045
0
0
this is the dumbest argument ever. It does take more energy (ie from gasoline) than is contained in ethonol. The only reason gm is doing this is cause the government subsidizes e85 and GM is the only car maker using it. If other makers follow suit, the government will start paying out of the ahole to to support the growth and there wil be a big corn shortage, or they will drop the subsidy and it will all be pointless. either way, E85 actually is more expensive, just not for the consumer, and it will eventually be more expensive for the consumer.
 
M

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Syringer
Anything to transition away from middle east oil dependency.
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Most of our oil doesn't come from the Middle East.
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yea, it comes from Argentina.

now, if only we could begin to harvest the oil sands up in Canada.
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Argentina? LOL!
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yea, i knew i messed it up when i said it, but i knew i shoulda said another country, just argentina came to mind, i was thinking of Venezuela
 
CPA

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
For some reason, I don't think most of you read that article.

The ethanol they are speaking about can be made out of any fibrous organic material, not just corn.

It costs less to manufacture than gasoline.

The newer engines don't corrode like the previous ones.

Most consumers don't know about Flex Fuel because the car companies haven't told us it was available. Hell, I have an Avalanche (specifically mentioned in the article) and I didn't know it could run on alternative fuel.
 
CPA

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
One other thing - the corn shortage argument is fascinating. For decades the government has paid farmers to NOT grow certain crops at certain times. This country could easily put back into service thousands and thousands of acres of farmland to supplement growth. Also, this would be a boom to the farming industry that has seen thousands of farmers go under since the early 1980s.
 
PingSpike

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,763
612
126
Either way...its a step in the right direction...utilizing agriculture to grow a fuel source is a good idea, particularly for this country.
 
C

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
0
0
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Originally posted by: tm37
Ethanol is more expensive to produce than gas though.
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The article indicates that ethanol is cheaper than gas...so that would seem contradictory. Regardless, I'd be more than willing to spend more money on ethanol if it meant the money was going into farmers pockets and not the Middleeast.
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it also produces fewer green house gasses and other pollutants.
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But it uses more energy to produce it than you get back from it when used in cars/trucks. You spend more to get less out of it.
 
nakedfrog

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,170
19,507
136
Originally posted by: CPA
For some reason, I don't think most of you read that article.

The ethanol they are speaking about can be made out of any fibrous organic material, not just corn.

It costs less to manufacture than gasoline.

The newer engines don't corrode like the previous ones.

Most consumers don't know about Flex Fuel because the car companies haven't told us it was available. Hell, I have an Avalanche (specifically mentioned in the article) and I didn't know it could run on alternative fuel.
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I looked at a 2000 or 2001 Ford Taurus a few years back that had some funny badge on it, and I checked and found that it was the Flex Fuel badge.
 
A

Accipiter22

Banned
Feb 11, 2005
7,942
2
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
We have a station here that has it at about $0.10 charper than regular.
One can also mix it about 50/50 with regular and use in in a vehicle safely every other tank ful.
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If you have Pride stations near you, they're usually cheaper than everyone else because they use ethanol.
 
ViRGE

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: SaturnX
As mentioned already in this thread, E85 is more expensive than regular gasoline at this moment in time. Our university's got a Gas/E85/Propane capable Chevy Silverado.

The big issue with E85 is the time it takes to grow the corn required for processing. So unless there's a SUBSTANTIAL (realistically isn't very possible, but who knows) amount of corn being grown, North American couldn't transition to E85 since we'd drain the supply too quickly.

In my opinion, E85 isn't viable, in all honesty, I see more promise from Hydrogen Fuel (again my Uni is redesigning a GM SUV to run entirely on Hydrogen fuel cells)

--Mark
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E85 is NOT more expensive, if you go look at prices, you can get it for MUCH less, anywhere from .10 per gallon, to half price.
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And how much of that is due to subsidies and the lack of gas taxes?
 
M

MixMasterTang

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,167
176
106
Does anyone have any real world experience with E85? There's a gas station not too far away here in Kansas City that sells it. Thinking about trying it out in the Wife's Yukon.
 
S

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
Well my vehicle can't burn it and I sure as hell won't be buying one of thoes vehicles on the list.
Mabey someday vehicles that I like will run on ethanol or diesel. Until then I'm going to continue to burn oil, and I don't mind one bit.
 
NL5

NL5

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2003
3,286
12
81
Originally posted by: SaturnX
in all honesty, I see more promise from Hydrogen Fuel (again my Uni is redesigning a GM SUV to run entirely on Hydrogen fuel cells)

--Mark
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Where is all the hydrogen going to come from? Not a good plan either....
 
So

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: NL5
Originally posted by: SaturnX
in all honesty, I see more promise from Hydrogen Fuel (again my Uni is redesigning a GM SUV to run entirely on Hydrogen fuel cells)

--Mark
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Where is all the hydrogen going to come from? Not a good plan either....
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Plus, hydrogen is not exactly 'green' -- H2O is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, any day. what we need is a way to make a fuel using electricity + some abundant carbon rich resource (producing synthetic petrolieum or some form of ethanol) that can burn in standard engines.
 
nakedfrog

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,170
19,507
136
Originally posted by: So
Plus, hydrogen is not exactly 'green' -- H2O is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, any day. what we need is a way to make a fuel using electricity + some abundant carbon rich resource (producing synthetic petrolieum or some form of ethanol) that can burn in standard engines.
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H2O a greenhouse gas? :confused:
 
G

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
iirc ehtanol is a very good sourche of cheap and non-populting fuel for small economies, and I remember readign somewhere that it jsut isn't efficient enough for bigAmerican cars....jsut enough for the dinky south American ones:p, so basically capitalizim invalidates its usefulnes....



 
D

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
We have stations near us that offer E85

about 30 cents cheaper a gallon than gas, oh my the revolution :-/
 
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