How the heck does something like this evolve?

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW
ever really looked at the anatomy of a giraffe? I'm no expert, but I know enough that they have a super strong heart in order to be able to pump blood up their long neck to their brain. The thing is, when it bends down to drink water, the heart is strong enough to pump blood right out the top of its head. So they have some special muscle that stops the flow when they bend down. They also have some storage system for the blood while that valve is closed. From what I know, they are the only animals that have anything close to that.

Too many perfect pieces exist to the puzzle for there not to be a Grand Creator.

i cant tell if this is a troll post or not

I'm way too old to troll. Just stating a fact.

Why couldnt a giraffe like animal with a much smaller neck gradually develop larger and larger vascualr smooth muscle as its hemodynamic needs changed? It doesnt have to be a sudden change

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: Mo0o


Why couldnt a giraffe like animal with a much smaller neck gradually develop larger and larger vascualr smooth muscle as its hemodynamic needs changed? It doesnt have to be a sudden change

What about the valve or the storage system?

I am by no means an expert, I just found these facts very interesting.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: Mo0o


Why couldnt a giraffe like animal with a much smaller neck gradually develop larger and larger vascualr smooth muscle as its hemodynamic needs changed? It doesnt have to be a sudden change

What about the valve or the storage system?

I am by no means an expert, I just found these facts very interesting.

Our veins have valves. They're just out growths from teh endothelium. I can imagine that these small outgrowths came about just as slowly as a way to aid teh heart in pumping blood to their head, just like how the valves in our veins helps the heart return blood to the R. atrium.

All I'm saying is, just because something is "itneresting" doesnt mean it's created by something divine and that we should stop trying to explain it using the known laws of the natural world. If we took an ipod back into the 1400s, people would have thought it was the devil's work, yet we both know its just science at work.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

I'm sure those individuals do not use the Bible as source material when they publish. Nor do they pull God out of the hat when discussing their work with colleagues.

Religion was a great way to explain how the world works back when we were living in caves and clubbing antelope with their own thigh bones for food.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

I know you (your posts) well enough to know that you have. Unlike you, this guy chose to attack rather than actually give intelligent input. People like you I like to talk to. I love learning new facts and hearing different views. People like him who offer nothing other than spite are not people I enjoy.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

Same here and I believe in God. That whole immaculate conception, son of god part of the story on the other hand...

 

[Locut0s]

Just another example of a complex system that anti evolutionists like to throw out as examples of things "too complex to evolve". The simple answer is that these symbiotic systems evolved like everything else from much simpler yet similar biological systems. At some point in history 2 or more of these types of cells happened to come together and by chance were somewhat compatible. That is they did not kill each other off. More than that they happened to confer some small symbiotic benefit to each other. Let's say one type of cell has stinging tentacles and the other could actively hunt for food. Since the cell types could coexist together you got two animals who complimented each other, one hunted for pry the other immobilized them, both benefited. Fast forward a few million years and the two types of organisms now compliment each other so well that they have lost many if not most of their secondary characteristics that once made them separate creatures. You now have something that looks like a single life form. Natural selection would have favoured those who could pair together and compliment each other the best. Fast forward a few more million years and add another cell type or two and you have said jellyfish.

Same as others have said with Mitochondria. At one point in time you had one type of cell that were relatively passive creatures relying mainly on some external chemical compound for energy. Then you had a second cell type that either powered itself via ATP or perhaps produced ATP as a byproduct. At any rate it turned out that the two cell types were somewhat compatible. In fact it turned out that cell type 1 was able to use the ATP from cell type 2 as a source of power. Probably the benefit one conferred on the other was not even this direct at the beginning. Anyway fast forward several billion years and cell type 1 now depends entirely on cell type 2 for producing ATP to power itself. And cell type 2 has now "devolved" into a symbiotic part of cell type 1. Hence Mitochondria and Eukaryotes.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

Same here and I believe in God. That whole immaculate conception, son of god part of the story on the other hand...

Would you say you believe in a more abstract concept of God rather than a specific construction as dictated by a specific religion?

It's always interesting for me to talk to reasonable, intelligent people who subscribe to a certain religion and the way they reconcile the conflicts is to just pick and choose what they want to believe in that religion.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: Mo0o


Why couldnt a giraffe like animal with a much smaller neck gradually develop larger and larger vascualr smooth muscle as its hemodynamic needs changed? It doesnt have to be a sudden change

What about the valve or the storage system?

I am by no means an expert, I just found these facts very interesting.

you are looking at the end product of adaptive evolution and ignoring the fact of intermediate forms. Thus your conclusions draw criticism.

 

[lxskllr]

For something similar, I saw a Discovery show about symbiotic relationships, and one of them was on 2 South American birds. I don't remember the exact species, but it was a type of hawk, and a vulture. They hung out together, and the vulture could smell dead animals from a long distance. The hawk and the vulture would go to the dead animal, and the hawk would tear apart the flesh, and the vulture would eat too. The vulture wasn't equipped for ripping flesh, so it relied on the hawk for good meals.

That's a little different than what's being discussed, but it's the same thing on a macro scale.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

Same here and I believe in God. That whole immaculate conception, son of god part of the story on the other hand...

Would you say you believe in a more abstract concept of God rather than a specific construction as dictated by a specific religion?

It's always interesting for me to talk to reasonable, intelligent people who subscribe to a certain religion and the way they reconcile the conflicts is to just pick and choose what they want to believe in that religion.

He's not a bearded dude in a toga sitting on a cloud, that's for sure.. More of a vague notion of a higher power. There is a great beyond in both science and religion that take leaps of faith to believe in.

The more I study anatomy and physiology, the more I am utterly blown away at the sheer complexity of it all. I don't see that as proof of a God so much as a testament to the smallness of our ability to understand the world around us.

not sure if all that makes sense...

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

Same here and I believe in God. That whole immaculate conception, son of god part of the story on the other hand...

Would you say you believe in a more abstract concept of God rather than a specific construction as dictated by a specific religion?

It's always interesting for me to talk to reasonable, intelligent people who subscribe to a certain religion and the way they reconcile the conflicts is to just pick and choose what they want to believe in that religion.

He's not a bearded dude in a toga sitting on a cloud, that's for sure.. More of a vague notion of a higher power. There is a great beyond in both science and religion that take leaps of faith to believe in.

The more I study anatomy and physiology, the more I am utterly blown away at the sheer complexity of it all. I don't see that as proof of a God so much as a testament to the smallness of our ability to understand the world around us.

not sure if all that makes sense...

Sounds like its pretty vague to yourself

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

Same here and I believe in God. That whole immaculate conception, son of god part of the story on the other hand...

Would you say you believe in a more abstract concept of God rather than a specific construction as dictated by a specific religion?

It's always interesting for me to talk to reasonable, intelligent people who subscribe to a certain religion and the way they reconcile the conflicts is to just pick and choose what they want to believe in that religion.

He's not a bearded dude in a toga sitting on a cloud, that's for sure.. More of a vague notion of a higher power. There is a great beyond in both science and religion that take leaps of faith to believe in.

The more I study anatomy and physiology, the more I am utterly blown away at the sheer complexity of it all. I don't see that as proof of a God so much as a testament to the smallness of our ability to understand the world around us.

not sure if all that makes sense...

Sounds like its pretty vague to yourself

When God presents himself to me in a way I can understand, I'll let you know what form he takes and whether or not he has a noodly appendage.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: GasX

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
[

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

Really? There is a micro biology major on this board that is a Christian. One of my good friends is a psychology professor and believs in God. Were the founding fathers living in a world of make believe? Is President Obama?

I am not one to push my beliefs on others but I have definitely studied enough to be able to back up my claims. Can you say the same?

Yes. I was a bio major with a concentration in evolution.

Same here and I believe in God. That whole immaculate conception, son of god part of the story on the other hand...

Would you say you believe in a more abstract concept of God rather than a specific construction as dictated by a specific religion?

It's always interesting for me to talk to reasonable, intelligent people who subscribe to a certain religion and the way they reconcile the conflicts is to just pick and choose what they want to believe in that religion.

He's not a bearded dude in a toga sitting on a cloud, that's for sure.. More of a vague notion of a higher power. There is a great beyond in both science and religion that take leaps of faith to believe in.

The more I study anatomy and physiology, the more I am utterly blown away at the sheer complexity of it all. I don't see that as proof of a God so much as a testament to the smallness of our ability to understand the world around us.

not sure if all that makes sense...

Sounds like its pretty vague to yourself

When God presents himself to me in a way I can understand, I'll let you know what form he takes and whether or not he has a noodly appendage.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter

 

[Safeway]

Why can't you just leave it at a symbiotic relationship that guided evolution?

YOU HAVE TO BRING GOD INTO IT. OMFG.

 

[GasX]

woah - time warp

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: GasX
woah - time warp

Where's your God now?

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: NSFW
ever really looked at the anatomy of a giraffe? I'm no expert, but I know enough that they have a super strong heart in order to be able to pump blood up their long neck to their brain. The thing is, when it bends down to drink water, the heart is strong enough to pump blood right out the top of its head. So they have some special muscle that stops the flow when they bend down. They also have some storage system for the blood while that valve is closed. From what I know, they are the only animals that have anything close to that.

Too many perfect pieces exist to the puzzle for there not to be a Grand Creator.

In other words, it's too complex for you to wrap your puny brain around and comprehend, therefore there must be a supreme being. Newsflash, lots of us who CAN understand these processes ARE supreme beings, at least compared to you.

 

[El Guaraguao]

I usually just lurk these religious ruined post and laugh, but I must give my input in this, with a quote. From yours truely.

"I prefer to answer the unexplainable with, i dont know, rather than the word, god" - me

Heres another one from me, again.

"Complex questions require complex answers. god is not complex"

use em' for your sigs, make a book about it, make a wiki about me, do whatever the fuck you want. peace and good night.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: NSFW
ever really looked at the anatomy of a giraffe? I'm no expert, but I know enough that they have a super strong heart in order to be able to pump blood up their long neck to their brain.

Finally something we can both agree on.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

It's a waste of time to argue with people who use the world of make believe to support their ideas. Religion and Science exist within two completely different paradigms that have no common ground.

I am of the opinion that ethics and morality can be observed and studied empirically.

Noodley appendage or not there must be a first-mover, how else did things start moving? In a void of nothing there are no rules which means anything can happen, in such a case only the greatest super-power wins.

 

[Sea Moose]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Mitochondria are similar. We can live without them now

Oh?

We can live without mitochondria? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... link?

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


CANT . I MEAN CANT

poor moo

 

[Udgnim]

through random mutations & lots of generations

example, scientists often talk about some virus mutating making it more difficult to treat. microevolution at work.