How stable is the U.S. dollar?????

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sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: FoBoT
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: FoBoT
the idea that without the US contribution, NATO could muster more than a Boy Scout camp is recockulous

look at the % of GDP that the other NATO countries put into defense

Perhaps the most alarming statistic with regard to NATO has been the ever-widening disparity in defense expenditures between the United States on the one hand and Canada and Europe on the other. For the fiscal year 2007 defense budget, the United States has allocated $439.3 billion (3.2 percent of GDP) for the Department of Defense?an increase of 7 percent from FY 2006. This sum dwarfs the respective defense budgets of fellow NATO members: United Kingdom $65.25 billion (2.7 percent of GDP); France $45 billion (2.6 percent); Germany $30 billion (1.2 percent); Italy $28.2 billion (1.8 percent); Spain $9.9 billion (1.2 percent). Consequently, the United States now represents 85 percent of NATO?s military capabilities.
The creation of the EU?s 60,000-strong Rapid Reaction Force (RRF) coincided with the establishment of NATO?s 21,000-strong Response Force (NRF). This begs the question as to whether the EU is enhancing the security of Europe through new military capabilities or merely ?re-hatting? existing forces. The collective defense budgets of all 25 EU member states amount to $200 billion?less than half of the U.S. defense budget. The likelihood of an effective RRF?presumably under the direction of a nonexistent European Security and Defense Policy (ESDP)?is therefore doubtful.
http://www.myheritage.org/Issues/NATO.asp

Where are you trying to go with this?

feralkid said that NATO backs the Euro the way the US military/govt backs the US Dollar, that is a giant load of CRAP

that is where i am going with this

the US is 85% of NATO and we don't back the Euro, only the govts. of the EU back the Euro, NOT the armies of NATO that barely exist



No he didn't.


Someone asked "and what army is the euro backed with?" and he said "NATO" which is fact. NATO protects each and every member state.

christ you're stupid

If you're here to start a fight, take it to P&N.
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.nato.int/docu/basictxt/treaty.htm

show me any mention of protecting a "common" currency (that didn't even exist when NATO was formed) or the "Euro" in the NATO charter




Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

I think the common sense of this all is "If Europe is attacked, who defends it?

Answer: NATO.

P.S. switch to decaf, this is a discussion forum, not a shouting insults contest.

:cookie:
 

Kreon

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2006
1,329
0
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
as I read more and more of the post, im shocked about how dumb the people here are. The USD isnt going away. The national debt is on pace to be paid off within 10 years. Furthermore, the national debt doesnt actually mean much - people always talk about how bad it is, but none can really say why (most economists agree that a small national debt can be a good thing).

Alexander Hamilton made the nation in more debt as to bring it together
It worked then

But 8 trillion (correct me if I'm wrong) is a little large...

Could go either way (this argument)
However, the dollar is not going to crash, right now
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: bobdelt
as I read more and more of the post, im shocked about how dumb the people here are. The USD isnt going away. The national debt is on pace to be paid off within 10 years. Furthermore, the national debt doesnt actually mean much - people always talk about how bad it is, but none can really say why (most economists agree that a small national debt can be a good thing).

You are higher than a kite. The national debt is nowhere near being paid off in 10 years. You are thinking of the deficit, and even then we still probably won't be running a surplus in 10 years.
 

Q

Lifer
Jul 21, 2005
12,046
4
81
Originally posted by: ntdz
Your buddy is an idiot. The US Dollar is the most widely used currency in the world, the currency on which most other currencies are based.

Go USA
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

In short, other countries "own" our debt; they could "call our note" if they so desired. Some of these "other countries" include China.
 

40sTheme

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2006
1,607
0
0
Originally posted by: txrandom
Your friend is a dumbass!

Yeah, seriously...
The dollar is and will always be an international economic contender. There's no way around that.
 

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
918
0
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

Thats one of my points. As countries by out debt, such as China, that is actually an investment in the USA - China cannot afford the USD to tank, because that makes all our loans we got from them worthless.

Also, what everyone has forgotten in this topic, is all the foreign banks with significant USD holdings - which cannot be said for the euro.
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

Thats one of my points. As countries by out debt, such as China, that is actually an investment in the USA - China cannot afford the USD to tank, because that makes all our loans we got from them worthless.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think some strategists fear that the day may come when China CAN afford the USD to tank.

But even short of "tanking" China would have significant economic hold over the U.S.

Meanwhile China continues to build up its military with ....U.S. Dollars.

Some would say the future is not looking all that bright for the United States.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,974
140
106
..often wondered why the euro is as high as it is. what's proping it up??
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,784
6,343
126
The Euro is definitely on the rise. One interesting bit of trivia is that the Euro actually surpassed the US Dollar last year in the amount of Currency released to the market(aka more Euros were printed than Dollars). OTOH, the US Dollar has been weak for awhile now and many fundamentals that support Currencies are weak in the US.

If Nations begin to switch from $US Trade to Euro, then the $US is at a significant risk of being replaced. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Ricemarine
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: JS80
and what army is the euro backed with?

NATO.
NATO?

wouldn't we be backed the same as well since we are part of NATO?

I think it's fair to say we ARE NATO.

NATO is pretty much just the USA, canada, and the UK



NOPE.

He's talking about military and monetary contributions. I mean c'mon, I think we just established in the past few days that Luxembourg does not have a military.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
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This could easily be turned into a Bush bashing thread as the US dollar has lost 20% of it's worldly value since 2001. That's right, 20%!!!

Source:
Value Line available at most libraries.
 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
22
81
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.nato.int/docu/basictxt/treaty.htm

show me any mention of protecting a "common" currency (that didn't even exist when NATO was formed) or the "Euro" in the NATO charter




Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

I think the common sense of this all is "If Europe is attacked, who defends it?

Answer: NATO.

P.S. switch to decaf, this is a discussion forum, not a shouting insults contest.


:cookie:

we need to yell if you're hard of hearing. If Europe is attacked, sure, NATO helps them. But if the USA is attacking Europe, why the hell would they defend Europe as well?
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
The Euro is definitely on the rise. One interesting bit of trivia is that the Euro actually surpassed the US Dollar last year in the amount of Currency released to the market(aka more Euros were printed than Dollars). OTOH, the US Dollar has been weak for awhile now and many fundamentals that support Currencies are weak in the US.

If Nations begin to switch from $US Trade to Euro, then the $US is at a significant risk of being replaced. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen.



In other news, the peso is going to replace the dollar because more pesos are being printed.. In other news, Sudanes dinar are going to replace the dollar because it takes a truckload of it to buy be a single loaf of bread...
 

dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,071
2
81
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

One thing people tend to over look is that holding a debt costs money. There are interest payments that have to be paid on a debt. IIRC, something like 15-20% of Canada's annual federal budget is spent on just servicing the debt. Thats 10's of millions of dollars that could be spent on health care, education, or other purposes. While the interest payments the U.S. makes annually are a much smaller portion of the annual budget, I believe they may be in the hundreds of millions per year. Imagine just throwing away all that money every year.

Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

In short, other countries "own" our debt; they could "call our note" if they so desired. Some of these "other countries" include China.

Yup. China 'owns' so much of the U.S. debt, if they decided to call it in, they could potentially collapse the entire U.S. economy in a matter of hours. Of course this would lead to the death of the rest of the World Economy, including the Chinese economy shortly there after, so its unlikely they'd do this.

Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: bobdelt
as I read more and more of the post, im shocked about how dumb the people here are. The USD isnt going away. The national debt is on pace to be paid off within 10 years. Furthermore, the national debt doesnt actually mean much - people always talk about how bad it is, but none can really say why (most economists agree that a small national debt can be a good thing).

You are higher than a kite. The national debt is nowhere near being paid off in 10 years. You are thinking of the deficit, and even then we still probably won't be running a surplus in 10 years.

At the rate Bush is going it would be difficult to turn a surplus even in 10 years. It would require such huge tax increases and spending cuts that it would probably crush an already suffering economy.



Again as I said before, the U.S. dollar will need to decline or devalue further if the States continues to run such a large trade deficit. Either the U.S. government can somehow reduce imports and/or increase exports, or purposefully devalue the currency. I guess we'll see how long this can last at its current rate. It may be sustainable for a long period simply because of the size of the U.S. economy. Time will tell.
 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
22
81
Originally posted by: dawks
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

One thing people tend to over look is that holding a debt costs money. There are interest payments that have to be paid on a debt. IIRC, something like 15-20% of Canada's annual federal budget is spent on just servicing the debt. Thats 10's of millions of dollars that could be spent on health care, education, or other purposes. While the interest payments the U.S. makes annually are a much smaller portion of the annual budget, I believe they may be in the hundreds of millions per year. Imagine just throwing away all that money every year.

Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

In short, other countries "own" our debt; they could "call our note" if they so desired. Some of these "other countries" include China.

Yup. China 'owns' so much of the U.S. debt, if they decided to call it in, they could potentially collapse the entire U.S. economy in a matter of hours. Of course this would lead to the death of the rest of the World Economy, including the Chinese economy shortly there after, so its unlikely they'd do this.

Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: bobdelt
as I read more and more of the post, im shocked about how dumb the people here are. The USD isnt going away. The national debt is on pace to be paid off within 10 years. Furthermore, the national debt doesnt actually mean much - people always talk about how bad it is, but none can really say why (most economists agree that a small national debt can be a good thing).

You are higher than a kite. The national debt is nowhere near being paid off in 10 years. You are thinking of the deficit, and even then we still probably won't be running a surplus in 10 years.

At the rate Bush is going it would be difficult to turn a surplus even in 10 years. It would require such huge tax increases and spending cuts that it would probably crush an already suffering economy.



Again as I said before, the U.S. dollar will need to decline or devalue further if the States continues to run such a large trade deficit. Either the U.S. government can somehow reduce imports and/or increase exports, or purposefully devalue the currency. I guess we'll see how long this can last at its current rate. It may be sustainable for a long period simply because of the size of the U.S. economy. Time will tell.


I think it's more plausible for the USA to simply default on their loans if China ever called them all in. Then China's economy tanks and our trade deficit is greatly lowered. Win for us! :D
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: TehMac
Can someone please tell me the bad things of our government being in debt. As long as the people in the majority aren't and are flourishing, why should it matter?

In short, other countries "own" our debt; they could "call our note" if they so desired. Some of these "other countries" include China.

Them calling our notes wouldn't affect any debt we already have outstanding, it'd just affect world prices for our treasury notes later on.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
as I read more and more of the post, im shocked about how dumb the people here are. The USD isnt going away. The national debt is on pace to be paid off within 10 years. Furthermore, the national debt doesnt actually mean much - people always talk about how bad it is, but none can really say why (most economists agree that a small national debt can be a good thing).

LMFAO. Pot calling the kettle black?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,784
6,343
126
Originally posted by: eleison
Originally posted by: sandorski
The Euro is definitely on the rise. One interesting bit of trivia is that the Euro actually surpassed the US Dollar last year in the amount of Currency released to the market(aka more Euros were printed than Dollars). OTOH, the US Dollar has been weak for awhile now and many fundamentals that support Currencies are weak in the US.

If Nations begin to switch from $US Trade to Euro, then the $US is at a significant risk of being replaced. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen.



In other news, the peso is going to replace the dollar because more pesos are being printed.. In other news, Sudanes dinar are going to replace the dollar because it takes a truckload of it to buy be a single loaf of bread...

It's not about the amount of Paper used, it is about the Value of the release.