How sick can religions be?

[athithi]

Originally posted by: Sultan
emm, very good post touting India again. USA should be included, India should not
:roll:
btw, I studied in a Convent School in Pakistan, then went to a Parsi (which btw is the same as Zoroastrian) high school, there is a Hindu cricketer in Pakistan's national team, as well as a Christian and all that coming out of a 2% minority.
here goes your claim about Pakistan being intolerant or the claim that India should be excluded from the above list.
anyways, I think the list is quite ridiculous and I maintain all religions/races/creeds have their bad elements.

What's your problem when I defend my country? Did I mention anything about whether Pakistan belongs in that list or not?

That aside, the 2% minority didn't come about incidentally. It came about because the Muslim League wanted a nation exclusively for Muslims - the very definition of religious intolerance.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: Sultan
emm, very good post touting India again. USA should be included, India should not
:roll:
btw, I studied in a Convent School in Pakistan, then went to a Parsi (which btw is the same as Zoroastrian) high school, there is a Hindu cricketer in Pakistan's national team, as well as a Christian and all that coming out of a 2% minority.
here goes your claim about Pakistan being intolerant or the claim that India should be excluded from the above list.
anyways, I think the list is quite ridiculous and I maintain all religions/races/creeds have their bad elements.

What's your problem when I defend my country? Did I mention anything about whether Pakistan belongs in that list or not?

That aside, the 2% minority didn't come about incidentally. It came about because the Muslim League wanted a nation exclusively for Muslims - the very definition of religious intolerance.

I dont have a problem with you "defending" your country. But its quite hypocritical to point fingers at others when there is apparently a mess in one's own backyard. You will see I did not dispute the inclusion of Pakistan in that list because I recognize that certain elements do exist in Pakistan which promote extremism. However, such elements, I repeat exist in all religions/races/creeds .

That aside, the 2% minority came about because the present day Pakistan has historically been Muslim majority areas with little non-Muslim populace. As you may or may not know, only areas with Muslim majority were to be included in Pakistan. You keep touting religious intolerance while you have no substance to answer my arguments.

From a country with almost 20% non-Hindus (which translates into roughly 200 million people), and a "secular democratic" nation, India has produced 4 non-Hindu Presidents, 1 really rich person non-Hindu person, a large mosque and some movie stars? If I am not mistaken, the richest person (not of the monarchy) in Oman is a Hindu. I've already quoted non-Muslims achieving success in Pakistan. So just why should India be excluded while others should? At least show yourself to be a fair person and not try to label yourself the same as the label you've handed to others

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sultan

It's quite well know how the 'third-world' foreign population is treated in SA and even in other Middle Eastern countries, including prosperous ones such as UAE. It's very well documented. I suggest you do a search on Google.

You're now walking down the path of pro-apartheid activists with your reasoning. How can you know if apartheid is bad if you didn't live in South Africa? I see in some posts you're equating the condition of these people with illegal slaves in Canada or something... There is a big degree of difference between the levels of what is happening, how the countries deal with it, etc. It seems like you're going down the path of "'oh something is happening over there, so don't criticize what is happening here." That's what pro-apartheid supports used to say.

Excessive labor, non-payment of dues and poor living conditions are all ills of the Middle East but neither do they amount to an apartheild, nor is it a localized in the Middle East. I posted a reference to a UC Berkeley study which showed the same exists here in the United States.

Almost everything exists everywhere. What is happening in SA is at a major extreme. I'm not saying that it's the same as apartheid (but actually maybe it is), just that your reasoning is similar to pro-apartheid logic.

It took decades and a civil war to root out slavery from the United States. Saudi Arabia has already taken one step to abolish slavery. They are moving towards a more democratic form of government by holding municipal (?) elections soon. Hopefully these ills will also be solved.

Doesn't matter if it tooks 5000 years for one country to get rid of history. Does this mean that newly formed countries can do whatever they want and people will just say 'oh, they have can slavery since it took other countries 100 years to get rid of it!.' No, it is the 21st century.

Saudi Arabia and other nations I quoted are good example in my response to Athithi's post. These nations have never had Hindu/Muslim riots, nor massacres of followers of other religions. Period.

SA is a horrible example. Not only does it oppress its third-world 'slaves' it doesn't even allow freedom of religion. However, the other countries you posted HAVE had religious riots and massacres of followers of other religions. Period. Communal violence is something that happens. It's just not a MAJOR thing. Communal violence happens everywhere in the world, but obviously at different degrees.

 

[Sultan]

Almost everything exists everywhere. What is happening in SA is at a major extreme. I'm not saying that it's the same as apartheid (but actually maybe it is), just that your reasoning is similar to pro-apartheid logic.

Thats not true. One of my relatives (from Pakistan) worked in Saudi Arabia and his boss was a Hindu. He lived in a compound (the housing system in SA) where people of all countries lived, pretty decently I might add. This may or may not be an isolated case depending on your perspective, but this comes from a person who was living there for well over 30 years. Again, the conditions in Saudi Arabia are far from an apartheid, there's not even a comparison. Please show me any evidence that extreme working conditions have been compared to apartheld.

Doesn't matter if it tooks 5000 years for one country to get rid of history. Does this mean that newly formed countries can do whatever they want and people will just say 'oh, they have can slavery since it took other countries 100 years to get rid of it!.' No, it is the 21st century.

So what if its the 21st Century? We're still fighting stupid wars, based on lies, based on religion, or power, or wealth. We're still letting millions of people starve, the world is still full of conflict and people still are bigot, racist and whatnot. As I said before, Saudi Arabia has taken steps to rid the society of ills. Each step should be applauded, and the society should not be criticized for its shortcomings, rather encouraged to go steps further. Slavery does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Foreign workers are treated to harsh conditions, and the same happens here in the US as I have said before. Hopefully such ills will be removed from both societies in the near future.

SA is a horrible example. Not only does it oppress its third-world 'slaves' it doesn't even allow freedom of religion. However, the other countries you posted HAVE had religious riots and massacres of followers of other religions. Period. Communal violence is something that happens. It's just not a MAJOR thing. Communal violence happens everywhere in the world, but obviously at different degrees.

Hilarious. You keep quoting "slaves" whereas there is no proof that slavery is practiced in Saudia Arabia. Period. You can keep lying and spin around wordings but you know its not true. You can argue with me regarding it for jest. Communal violence is not a MAJOR thing??? Ha! Say that to the millions who die in Rwanda or Somalia. Even in India's most recent "communal violence", the OFFICIAL death toll is said to be 850, while UNOFFICIAL figure is around 2000 dead, in THREE days, and this is where freedom of religion is allowed. Thats not even counting how many were maimed, raped, burnt, economic damage, etc, etc. Close to a HUNDRED THOUSAND had to move to releif camps throughout the state of Gujurat. Yup, sure, thats not a major thing. Lack of respect of human life is a lesson you should teach to all. :roll:

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Almost everything exists everywhere. What is happening in SA is at a major extreme. I'm not saying that it's the same as apartheid (but actually maybe it is), just that your reasoning is similar to pro-apartheid logic.

Thats not true. One of my relatives (from Pakistan) worked in Saudi Arabia and his boss was a Hindu. He lived in a compound (the housing system in SA) where people of all countries lived, pretty decently I might add. This may or may not be an isolated case depending on your perspective, but this comes from a person who was living there for well over 30 years. Again, the conditions in Saudi Arabia are far from an apartheid, there's not even a comparison. Please show me any evidence that extreme working conditions have been compared to apartheld.

I'm talking about the poor migrant workers. I'm assuming your relative is educated. Just do a search on google and I'm sure you'll find a lot. Here's one talking about apartheid: link (I just randomly selected one, there's a ton there).

Doesn't matter if it tooks 5000 years for one country to get rid of history. Does this mean that newly formed countries can do whatever they want and people will just say 'oh, they have can slavery since it took other countries 100 years to get rid of it!.' No, it is the 21st century.

So what if its the 21st Century? We're still fighting stupid wars, based on lies, based on religion, or power, or wealth. We're still letting millions of people starve, the world is still full of conflict and people still are bigot, racist and whatnot. As I said before, Saudi Arabia has taken steps to rid the society of ills. Each step should be applauded, and the society should not be criticized for its shortcomings, rather encouraged to go steps further. Slavery does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Foreign workers are treated to harsh conditions, and the same happens here in the US as I have said before. Hopefully such ills will be removed from both societies in the near future.

So what if it's the 21st century? It matters because that's where we are now. If a new country is formed, like Slovenia which is only 10 years old or so, do you support them having slavery just because they're a new country?

SA is a horrible example. Not only does it oppress its third-world 'slaves' it doesn't even allow freedom of religion. However, the other countries you posted HAVE had religious riots and massacres of followers of other religions. Period. Communal violence is something that happens. It's just not a MAJOR thing. Communal violence happens everywhere in the world, but obviously at different degrees.

Hilarious. You keep quoting "slaves" whereas there is no proof that slavery is practiced in Saudia Arabia. Period. You can keep lying and spin around wordings but you know its not true. You can argue with me regarding it for jest. Communal violence is not a MAJOR thing??? Ha! Say that to the millions who die in Rwanda or Somalia. Even in India's most recent "communal violence", the OFFICIAL death toll is said to be 850, while UNOFFICIAL figure is around 2000 dead, in THREE days, and this is where freedom of religion is allowed. Thats not even counting how many were maimed, raped, burnt, economic damage, etc, etc. Yup, sure, thats not a major thing. Lack of respect of human life is a lesson you should teach to all. :roll:

Hilarious. link

?We found men and women in conditions resembling slavery,? said Whitson. ?Case after case demonstrates that the Saudis are turning a blind eye to systematic abuses against foreign workers.?

I didn't say that communal violence isn't a major thing. I said in the other countries you listed, it's not as major. They do have communal violence, but it's not at a horrible degree. SA can't have communal violence because it massively oppresses the other side that's required for communal violence.

 

[Sultan]

I'm talking about the poor migrant workers. I'm assuming your relative is educated. Just do a search on google and I'm sure you'll find a lot. Here's one talking about apartheid: link (I just randomly selected one, there's a ton there).

Gender segregation != apartheid.
My relative was educated. So was his supervisor. As you will read the reports, you can see that people from Muslim nations also are treated in the same condition. Therefore one can conclude religious apartheid is non-existant. I agree that religious freedom is non-existant. But in countries where religious freedom does exist, they have different problems of the same magnitude. Again, as I said before, each step taken in the right direction should be applauded rather than a society be criticized for its shortcomings.

So what if it's the 21st century? It matters because that's where we are now. If a new country is formed, like Slovenia which is only 10 years old or so, do you support them having slavery just because they're a new country?

Again, slavery was abolished ages ago and is not practiced in Saudi Arabia. The same worker conditions exist in the United States as I stated above. Each society needs time to cure the ills prevalent. What do you suggest happen? A miracle from the Heavens to cure each nation of its problems because its the 21st Century? Why do the same worker conditions exist in the United States then? Up till the 60's, this country itself was practicing segregation. Slavery was abolished in Saudi Arabia at the start of the 60's. Your point being...?

Hilarious. link

Your link does not state "slavery" is being practiced in Saudi Arabia. Period.

I didn't say that communal violence isn't a major thing. I said in the other countries you listed, it's not as major. They do have communal violence, but it's not at a horrible degree

You stated and I quote:

Communal violence is something that happens. It's just not a MAJOR thing

That said, I have not seen reports suggesting Hindu/Muslim riots or massacres of followers of other religions in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Malaysia, Oman, etc. They exist in India and therefore my examples were sound examples.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sultan

I'm talking about the poor migrant workers. I'm assuming your relative is educated. Just do a search on google and I'm sure you'll find a lot. Here's one talking about apartheid: link (I just randomly selected one, there's a ton there).

Gender segregation != apartheid.
My relative was educated. So was his supervisor. As you will read the reports, you can see that people from Muslim nations also are treated in the same condition. Therefore one can conclude religious apartheid is non-existant. I agree that religious freedom is non-existant. But in countries where religious freedom does exist, they have different problems of the same magnitude. Again, as I said before, each step taken in the right direction should be applauded rather than a society be criticized for its shortcomings.

I didn't say that gender segregation was apartheid, but that actually may be a good point. You're making me realize more valid points through your misunderstandings!

One of the articles say that it's a wahhabi apartheid or something. Nevertheless, they've created a slave-like caste of workers.

So what if it's the 21st century? It matters because that's where we are now. If a new country is formed, like Slovenia which is only 10 years old or so, do you support them having slavery just because they're a new country?

Again, slavery was abolished ages ago and is not practiced in Saudi Arabia. The same worker conditions exist in the United States as I stated above. Each society needs time to cure the ills prevalent. What do you suggest happen? A miracle from the Heavens to cure each nation of its problems because its the 21st Century? Why do the same worker conditions exist in the United States then? Up till the 60's, this country itself was practicing segregation. Slavery was abolished in Saudi Arabia at the start of the 60's. Your point being...?

I don't think that we should allow Slovenia to have slavery just because it's only 10 years old. Problems exist in every country at varying degrees. I guess we should never criticize anyone else then. That's a common tactic of the pro-apartheid supporters.

Hilarious. link

Your link does not state "slavery" is being practiced in Saudi Arabia. Period.

It's semi-slavery. Period. The quote even says they are in slave-like conditions. Period.

I didn't say that communal violence isn't a major thing. I said in the other countries you listed, it's not as major. They do have communal violence, but it's not at a horrible degree

You stated and I quote:

Communal violence is something that happens. It's just not a MAJOR thing

Communal violence happens in those countries which you said it DOESN'T happen. I said that it does, but it's not at a major level.

That said, I have not seen reports suggesting Hindu/Muslim riots or massacres of followers of other religions in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Pakistan, etc. They exist in India and therefore my examples were sound examples.

Pakistan has massacres and bombings in churches, mosques, etc. all the time. I don't think a week goes by without a bombing in a mosque and other sectarian violence in the news. They routinely have communal violence between the different sects of Islam. Like I said, SA cannot have communal violence because the other side that's required for communal violence is enslaved.

It's like saying there was no anti-semitism in Nazi Germany after all the Jews were carted off to the concentration camps.

 

[Sultan]

I didn't say that gender segregation was apartheid, but that actually may be a good point. You're making me realize more valid points through your misunderstandings!

One of the articles say that it's a wahhabi apartheid or something. Nevertheless, they've created a slave-like caste of workers.

Wahabi apartheid?!? Incredulous. Thats bran' new. No where is the term "caste" used in the reports I've read. Keep pushing in new words

It's semi-slavery. Period. The quote even says they are in slave-like conditions. Period.

Semi-slavery != slavery
UC Berkeley's report says the same is being practiced here. You have failed to address that

I don't think that we should allow Slovenia to have slavery just because it's only 10 years old. Problems exist in every country at varying degrees. I guess we should never criticize anyone else then. That's a common tactic of the pro-apartheid supporters.

I agree. Rather than go into hypothetical arguments, we must first stop "slave-like" conditions of workers in the United States AND encourage Saudi Arabia to do the same rather than keep pointing fingers. I have yet to see you criticizing "slave-like" conditions at home :roll: I on the other hand have admitted the ills of societies elsewhere.

Communal violence happens in those countries which you said it DOESN'T happen. I said that it does, but it's not at a major level.

Rather than go into semantics, lets take your advice and concentrate on where the occurence of communal violence are MAJOR.

Pakistan has massacres and bombings in churches, mosques, etc. all the time. I don't think a week goes by without a bombing in a mosque and other sectarian violence in the news. They routinely have communal violence between the different sects of Islam. Like I said, SA cannot have communal violence because the other side that's required for communal violence is enslaved.

That is true. Unfortunately, I included Pakistan in this post, whereas I omitted it as an example responding to Athithi's post. Again, my initial examples were sound as there are no occurences of Hindu/Muslim riots or massacres of followers of other religions in the examples I posted earlier.

Again you tout "enslaved", whereas such does not exist in Saudi Arabia. In your own reports, you can see that of every 2 Saudis, there is 1 foreigner. Hilarity no bounds claiming that communal violence does not happen even with 1/3 rd the population is kept in "slave-like" conditions. Wow, unbelievable, the whole world is pretty quiet, our government is good friends with Saudi Arabia, no nation has condemned Saudi of having an 8.8 million "enslaved" population.

I always thought communal violence would happen when a group of people would feel oppressed and so they would fight back. You bring a completely new perspective to it

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan
I did look at slavery and I gave you an example of other nations. Your anti-Islam bigotry only sticks to Muslim majority nations and never to your own homeland.

Wow, you are sick. You seem to have no problem with slavery or slave like conditions existing on a wide scale.

Amongst other things, this is where Canada commits HR violations. Of course you wont bat an eye since Canada is not a Muslim majority nation.

Every country has HR violatioins...the difference is that some countries have much larger and severe problems - such as Saudi Arabia. Your bigotry knows no shame. It's absolutely hilarious that you are trying to compare Saudi Arabia to Canada.

The COUNTRY of Saudi Arabia abolished slavery within 30 years of its creation as opposed to a much longer period in the United States and that too only after a civil war. But of course that does not seem disgusting to you.

The COUNTRY and AREA of Saudi Arabia practiced SLAVERY 40 years ago. I think it's better if an area, people, and country abandoned slavery as early as possible. You obviously disagree as you are apparently pro-slavery.

Since you're obviously an anti-Islam bigot, you can deem it to be more offensive in Saudi Arabia than anywhere else :roll:

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, Canada is worse than Saudi Arabia and anyone that says Saudi Arabia is worse is an anti-Islam bigot. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

No, just fix what things in your home country before pointing fingers elsewhere.

What a perfect way to hide from all criticism! Pathetic, really pathetic.

Allah commands you to run into the wall.

 

[RabidMongoose]

UC Berkeley's report says the same is being practiced here. You have failed to address that

I love your bigot logic. It seems that you would feel that a single private person enslaving one person is on the same scale as an entire government creating slave-like conditions.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan
I aim to change the perspective of all in here to not blame a religion but to identify the problems wherever they may exist, understand the cause of these problems and root them out. Finger pointing is easy, working towards a solution is not.

Working towards a solution isn't easy when you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[Sultan]

Wow, you are sick. You seem to have no problem with slavery or slave like conditions existing on a wide scale

You dont seem to have a problem with it existing in the United States. At least I accept it happens in both nations

Every country has HR violatioins...the difference is that some countries have much larger and severe problems - such as Saudi Arabia. Your bigotry knows no shame. It's absolutely hilarious that you are trying to compare Saudi Arabia to Canada.

Lets see you criticize Canada first. I recognize both problems. I'd rather work towards a solution than criticize.

The COUNTRY and AREA of Saudi Arabia practiced SLAVERY 40 years ago. I think it's better if an area, people, and country abandoned slavery as early as possible. You obviously disagree as you are apparently pro-slavery.

The COUNTRY and AREA of USA practiced segregation 40 years ago, even AFTER decades of practicing SLAVERY, and STILL practices "slave-like" condiitons for its workers. Again, I admit to Saudi Arabia having problems but you in your true anti-Islam nature choose to criticize only nations with Muslim majority

Yeah, Canada is worse than Saudi Arabia and anyone that says Saudi Arabia is worse is an anti-Islam bigot.

I dont see me doing any comparison between Canada and Saudi Arabia in the statement you quoted

What a perfect way to hide from all criticism! Pathetic, really pathetic.

Yup, pretty pathetic to be a racist bigot that you are

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

UC Berkeley's report says the same is being practiced here. You have failed to address that

I love your bigot logic. It seems that you would feel that a single private person enslaving one person is on the same scale as an entire government creating slave-like conditions.

I dont think one single private person can enslave thousands as cited by UC Berkeley's report

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan
I aim to change the perspective of all in here to not blame a religion but to identify the problems wherever they may exist, understand the cause of these problems and root them out. Finger pointing is easy, working towards a solution is not.

Working towards a solution isn't easy when you refuse to acknowledge it.

More lies? My words (a short sample):

I agree that religious freedom is non-existant

I on the other hand have admitted the ills of societies elsewhere.

Pakistan has massacres and bombings in churches, mosques, etc. all the time. I don't think a week goes by without a bombing in a mosque and other sectarian violence in the news. They routinely have communal violence between the different sects of Islam. Like I said, SA cannot have communal violence because the other side that's required for communal violence is enslaved.

That is true

Hopefully such ills will be removed from both societies in the near future.

Besides, criticism will never lead to a solution. Anyone can finger point

 

[RabidMongoose]

You dont seem to have a problem with it existing in the United States. At least I accept it happens in both nations

I don't see widespread slavery in the United States. It is well documented in Saudi Arabia and is described as widespread slave like conditions.

Lets see you criticize Canada first. I recognize both problems. I'd rather work towards a solution than criticize.

If what you said is true then it would be a problem..but not nearly as bad as Saudi Arabia's problem. SA's problem is much more severe - your bigotry fails to let you understand that. You equate 1 human rights violation as being the same as, say, 1 million human rights violations. Allah doesn't like your logic.

he COUNTRY and AREA of USA practiced segregation 40 years ago, even AFTER decades of practicing SLAVERY, and STILL practices "slave-like" condiitons for its workers. Again, I admit to Saudi Arabia having problems but you in your true anti-Islam nature choose to criticize only nations with Muslim majority

The COUNTRY and AREA of SA practiced SLAVERY until 40 years ago and now practices much more slavery like conditions and slavery than the US, Canada, or any other decent & modern first world country.

I admit problems in every country. However, your bigotry and hatred of non-Muslims makes you not acknowledge the severity of these problems that exist in SA. You want to equate the common situation in SA as the unusual situation in Canada.

Does Saudi Arabia have more problems than Canada?

dont see me doing any comparison between Canada and Saudi Arabia in the statement you quoted

Too bad.

Yup, pretty pathetic to be a racist bigot

At least you are now admitting that you are a racist bigot.

Allah commands you to no longer be racist and hate all non-Muslims.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan
I aim to change the perspective of all in here to not blame a religion but to identify the problems wherever they may exist, understand the cause of these problems and root them out. Finger pointing is easy, working towards a solution is not.

Working towards a solution isn't easy when you refuse to acknowledge it.

More lies? My words (a short sample):

I agree that religious freedom is non-existant

I on the other hand have admitted the ills of societies elsewhere.

Pakistan has massacres and bombings in churches, mosques, etc. all the time. I don't think a week goes by without a bombing in a mosque and other sectarian violence in the news. They routinely have communal violence between the different sects of Islam. Like I said, SA cannot have communal violence because the other side that's required for communal violence is enslaved.

That is true

Hopefully such ills will be removed from both societies in the near future.

No, you refuse to acknowledge the severity of these problems and how different they are from other countries.

Your mind is full of hate and cannot tolerate a non-Muslims being critical of a primarily Muslim country because in your mind non-Muslims are inherently inferior in every quality.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

UC Berkeley's report says the same is being practiced here. You have failed to address that

I love your bigot logic. It seems that you would feel that a single private person enslaving one person is on the same scale as an entire government creating slave-like conditions.

I dont think one single private person can enslave thousands as cited by UC Berkeley's report

Please provide a link to the UC Berkeley report.

I didn't say that one single person was responsible for anything...but that you essentially equate what is uncommon to being the same as to what is common in another country. Your bigotry doesn't allow you to see the difference.

 

[Sultan]

I don't see widespread slavery in the United States. It is well documented in Saudi Arabia and is described as widespread slave like conditions.

The report by HRW quotes 300 nurses, 4 women, and little more. Thats the documentation that exists via them. UC Berkeley cites thousands at any given time. Because you fail to recognize the problem, there will never be a solution from your end. I recognize problems in both societies.

If what you said is true then it would be a problem..but not nearly as bad as Saudi Arabia's problem. SA's problem is much more severe - your bigotry fails to let you understand that. You equate 1 human rights violation as being the same as, say, 1 million human rights violations. Allah doesn't like your logic.

It is true. Both societies have problems. I choose not to criticize Canada or Saudi Arabia as I said before. I'd rather work towards a solution than criticize You otoh just delve into your anti-Islam bigotry and persistent finger pointing Allah dislikes racist bigots like you.

The COUNTRY and AREA of SA practiced SLAVERY until 40 years ago and now practices much more slavery like conditions and slavery than the US, Canada, or any other decent & modern first world country.

Your wild comparisons have no bounds. Please give me a quote where it gives a figure of how many foreign workers are under "slave-like" conditions. Your comparison to a first world country is ridiculous, since Saudi Arabia is not one of them. Using Saudi Arabia as an example, I compared it to India, with respect to Athithi's post, both third world, or stretching second world nations. You compare apples to oranges. Keep it up :thumbsup:

I admit problems in every country. However, your bigotry and hatred of non-Muslims makes you not acknowledge the severity of these problems that exist in SA. You want to equate the common situation in SA as the unusual situation in Canada.

Good, then stop criticizing and work for solutions. Look at the previous post and I have oft recognised ills of SA society and of other societies. I dont see my comparing situations in Canada and SA. I presented problems in both societies. I have only disputed the extent to which you claim the problem exists.

At least you are now admitting that you are a racist bigot.

My words meant for you

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan
I aim to change the perspective of all in here to not blame a religion but to identify the problems wherever they may exist, understand the cause of these problems and root them out. Finger pointing is easy, working towards a solution is not.

Working towards a solution isn't easy when you refuse to acknowledge it.

More lies? My words (a short sample):

I agree that religious freedom is non-existant

I on the other hand have admitted the ills of societies elsewhere.

Pakistan has massacres and bombings in churches, mosques, etc. all the time. I don't think a week goes by without a bombing in a mosque and other sectarian violence in the news. They routinely have communal violence between the different sects of Islam. Like I said, SA cannot have communal violence because the other side that's required for communal violence is enslaved.

That is true

Hopefully such ills will be removed from both societies in the near future.

No, you refuse to acknowledge the severity of these problems and how different they are from other countries.

Your mind is full of hate and cannot tolerate a non-Muslims being critical of a primarily Muslim country because in your mind non-Muslims are inherently inferior in every quality.

Lie on and on. Problems exist. I dont take a racist bigoted approach and simply criticize.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

UC Berkeley's report says the same is being practiced here. You have failed to address that

I love your bigot logic. It seems that you would feel that a single private person enslaving one person is on the same scale as an entire government creating slave-like conditions.

I dont think one single private person can enslave thousands as cited by UC Berkeley's report

Please provide a link to the UC Berkeley report.

I didn't say that one single person was responsible for anything...but that you essentially equate what is uncommon to being the same as to what is common in another country. Your bigotry doesn't allow you to see the difference.

Google it yourself.

 

[RabidMongoose]

The report by HRW quotes 300 nurses, 4 women, and little more. Thats the documentation that exists via them. UC Berkeley cites thousands at any given time. Because you fail to recognize the problem, there will never be a solution from your end. I recognize problems in both societies.

I recognize all of the problems - but I also recognize which areas have much more severe problems. Do you?

It is true. Both societies have problems. I choose not to criticize Canada or Saudi Arabia as I said before. I'd rather work towards a solution than criticize You otoh just delve into your anti-Islam bigotry and persistent finger pointing Allah dislikes racist bigots like you.

Does Saudi Arabia have more problems than Canada?

You see criticism as an evil act - you call it 'finger pointing'. I suppose you can never point out anything or address anything. I will.

It is clear that your bigotry is coming into place when anyone is critical of Saudi Arabia.

Your wild comparisons have no bounds. Please give me a quote where it gives a figure of how many foreign workers are under "slave-like" conditions. Your comparison to a first world country is ridiculous, since Saudi Arabia is not one of them. Using Saudi Arabia as an example, I compared it to India, with respect to Athithi's post, both third world, or stretching second world nations. You compare apples to oranges. Keep it up

No I am not. You want to give a country a free pass - I don't. Yes, Saudi Arabia isn't a first world country...but that doesn't mean that we can't be critical of its actions. If you want to compare it to another country like India, then I'm sure Saudi Arabia will look better than if you compare it to Canada, the US, or more modern European countries. I'm simply stating that the working conditions in SA for many of these workers is horrendous.

Good, then stop criticizing and work for solutions. Look at the previous post and I have oft recognised ills of SA society and of other societies. I dont see my comparing situations in Canada and SA. I presented problems in both societies. I have only disputed the extent to which you claim the problem exists.

Being critical is part of the solution. Interesting that you seem to think that nobody should be critical of anything and instead should uproot their lives and do something about it. I suppose you would never be critical of slavery in any situation. You have the worst arguments of anyone in this forum. First we had the logic that resulted in the phrase 'orange bicycles' meaning that all oranges are bicycles and now this.

My words meant for you

It was probably a Freudian slip on your part.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

UC Berkeley's report says the same is being practiced here. You have failed to address that

I love your bigot logic. It seems that you would feel that a single private person enslaving one person is on the same scale as an entire government creating slave-like conditions.

I dont think one single private person can enslave thousands as cited by UC Berkeley's report

Please provide a link to the UC Berkeley report.

I didn't say that one single person was responsible for anything...but that you essentially equate what is uncommon to being the same as to what is common in another country. Your bigotry doesn't allow you to see the difference.

Google it yourself.

No thanks. I'm going to assume that it doens't even exist now.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan
Lie on and on. Problems exist. I dont take a racist bigoted approach and simply criticize.

Interesting that you feel that any criticism is a 'racist bigoted approach'.

Keep on with your racism.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sultan

I didn't say that gender segregation was apartheid, but that actually may be a good point. You're making me realize more valid points through your misunderstandings!

One of the articles say that it's a wahhabi apartheid or something. Nevertheless, they've created a slave-like caste of workers.

Wahabi apartheid?!? Incredulous. Thats bran' new. No where is the term "caste" used in the reports I've read. Keep pushing in new words

It's not brand new, it's mentioned in a previous link I gave you.

It's semi-slavery. Period. The quote even says they are in slave-like conditions. Period.

Semi-slavery != slavery
UC Berkeley's report says the same is being practiced here. You have failed to address that

Doesn't matter if it happens anywhere else. "Hey it happens over there somewhat, so it's ok to have it here!" Common pro-apartheid believer logic (not that I'm saying you are one). These people are treated in slave-like conditions.

I don't think that we should allow Slovenia to have slavery just because it's only 10 years old. Problems exist in every country at varying degrees. I guess we should never criticize anyone else then. That's a common tactic of the pro-apartheid supporters.

I agree. Rather than go into hypothetical arguments, we must first stop "slave-like" conditions of workers in the United States AND encourage Saudi Arabia to do the same rather than keep pointing fingers. I have yet to see you criticizing "slave-like" conditions at home :roll: I on the other hand have admitted the ills of societies elsewhere.

Slave-like conditions of workers in the US are criticized, illegal, not supported by the government, etc. This isn't about the US. It's about Saudi Arabia. Like the typical pro-apartheid supporter, you're trying to deflect the criticism and say because something similar happens elsewhere, it's okay to have it here. Bad things happen everywhere, but at varying degrees. Using your logic, nobody can criticze anyone else.

Communal violence happens in those countries which you said it DOESN'T happen. I said that it does, but it's not at a major level.

Rather than go into semantics, lets take your advice and concentrate on where the occurence of communal violence are MAJOR.

I was basically agreeing with your choice of some other countries but disagreeing with your choice of wording.

Pakistan has massacres and bombings in churches, mosques, etc. all the time. I don't think a week goes by without a bombing in a mosque and other sectarian violence in the news. They routinely have communal violence between the different sects of Islam. Like I said, SA cannot have communal violence because the other side that's required for communal violence is enslaved.

That is true. Unfortunately, I included Pakistan in this post, whereas I omitted it as an example responding to Athithi's post. Again, my initial examples were sound as there are no occurences of Hindu/Muslim riots or massacres of followers of other religions in the examples I posted earlier.

There ARE examples, but they are not as widespread, etc. I basically agree with choices like Malaysia, etc.

Again you tout "enslaved", whereas such does not exist in Saudi Arabia. In your own reports, you can see that of every 2 Saudis, there is 1 foreigner. Hilarity no bounds claiming that communal violence does not happen even with 1/3 rd the population is kept in "slave-like" conditions. Wow, unbelievable, the whole world is pretty quiet, our government is good friends with Saudi Arabia, no nation has condemned Saudi of having an 8.8 million "enslaved" population.

They are treated like slaves. No nation has condemend Saudi Arabia's condition of its slave caste? There probably are. The US just criticized SA for the lack of religious freedom.

I'm going to side with all the human rights groups. You can side with the oppressive slave-holders.

 

[bluemax]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: TechJunkie95242
Yes, just like Ann Coulter suggested that we go over there bomb the hell outta them and convert them to christian. Your taking away one religion that gives them an excuse to do evil and giving them another religion just as bad or possibly worse to do evil.

Islamic, or Christian both are evil religions imo.

I'm not a bible thumper, (actually don't like most preachers and never go near a church) but you are historically way off. Christianity went through the same phase a couple hundred years ago. Islam got stuck in it. Excluding the nuts in Ireland, Christianity has been pretty peaceful for some time.

The problems in Christianity were instigated and performed by the CATHOLIC church which has all kinds of non-Biblical rules and regulations. They've gone and messed with the ten commandments, no less. They, along with their "take-the-heat-off-me" sidekicks - the Jesuit Order, were the instigators of the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions. Every bit as bad as what Muslim extremists are doing now.
There's a very good reason why Martin Luther condemned the Catholic Papacy and Protestants came to be.

Catholic != Christian

These Muslim extremists twist their Koran around to include killing anyone they feel is a threat - ignoring all basic principles of peace/love/mercy/etc. Most of their followers are all but completely illiterate and simply believe the lies their leaders tell them.

Any time you take a "religion" of any kind and twist it around to meet a personal agenda, baaaaad things are bound to happen. Christian OR Muslim. End of story.