How old do you suppose this planet really is?

[GagHalfrunt]

Its been argued we cant sustain them now. I predict a couple more wars for resources in the next decade.

That hasn't been argued by anyone with a brain since the 1960's or so. We're going to run out of oil eventually, that's a given. But that's about it. We'll be forced to move to a new energy source and that be all. We're not close running out of food and water and we're not even close to maximizing food and potable water production. The Carrying Capacity of the Earth would be 10 billion + at current tech levels and likely far beyond that if we managed to improve techniques to get more food out of each acre. The only thing that would put humanity in a fight for basic resources like food and water would be something sudden and catastrophic that reduced ability to grow food. If Yellowstone erupts and plunges the world into a 10 year long nuclear winter that would kill billions, likewise for asteroid hit, a real nuclear war or a change in the earths orbit or sun's intensity. We're not going to outgrow the planets current ability to sustain life.

 

[OverVolt]

That hasn't been argued by anyone with a brain since the 1960's or so. We're going to run out of oil eventually, that's a given. But that's about it. We'll be forced to move to a new energy source and that be all. We're not close running out of food and water and we're not even close to maximizing food and potable water production. The Carrying Capacity of the Earth would be 10 billion + at current tech levels and likely far beyond that if we managed to improve techniques to get more food out of each acre. The only thing that would put humanity in a fight for basic resources like food and water would be something sudden and catastrophic that reduced ability to grow food. If Yellowstone erupts and plunges the world into a 10 year long nuclear winter that would kill billions, likewise for asteroid hit, a real nuclear war or a change in the earths orbit or sun's intensity. We're not going to outgrow the planets current ability to sustain life.

Yea for what, one more generation at the current growth rate? Pretty short sighted. Someone in 1910 KNEW that there were zero sustainability problems but right now sustainability problems are flashing up everywhere.

Where is NYC going to expand? Where is SF going to expand? Is there enough fuel for 2 billion cars? We already have 1 billion.

The argument that we can "just replace" oil is naive. A 4 pump gas station with all the pumps going is equivalent to a nuclear power plant. Nothing can replace the power density. Besides, all heavy construction equipment will need to run on oil. Oil powered mining equipment refines uranium for example. Oil powered mining equipment refines lithium for electric car batteries. The whole exercise is nonsense. What you don't seem to grasp is that this way of life is entirely enabled by oil. The planet can support 10 billion people but driving, trade, and transit would be a luxury. Thats what you don't get.

 

[Ruptga]

 

[Einzige]

You know the bible book of Genesis chapter one says that creation took place over 6 days and on the 7th God rested. The earth was created and then given form over several days and by the time the 6th day rolled around we had people, animals and foliage. I know that the furthest known galaxy is 13.7 billion lights years away hence it took at least that long for its light to reach us here.

So my question is simple. How old do you suppose this planet really is? If God created it did he work in some aging in the process as he was giving it form? Could the aging be enough to stabilize the land masses in order for people to safely inhabit the planet?

I believe that a man with a beard worked six while days to create planet earth then took a personal on the 7th.

And that's where humanity comes from. A man with a beard.

That's dumb I think the earth was created the moment I was born and the whole wide world is just a dream.

Scratch that a magic naked bunny garden proofed out of nothing in an ultimate instance of absurdity.

Now wait for it... The most ridiculous explanation of all...

A bunch of bipedal creatures that poop and pee, procreate via sticking penises up vaginas, with boogers up their noses evolves through the process of natural selection on a giant ball orbiting a giant fireball amongst seemingly infinite nothingness, which originated from totally rational laws of physics with no magic, design or anything.

No matter what you think you're probably wong--something is fishy here.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Yea for what, one more generation at the current growth rate? Pretty short sighted. Someone in 1910 KNEW that there were zero sustainability problems but right now sustainability problems are flashing up everywhere.

Where is NYC going to expand? Where is SF going to expand? Is there enough fuel for 2 billion cars? We already have 1 billion.

The argument that we can "just replace" oil is naive. A 4 pump gas station with all the pumps going is equivalent to a nuclear power plant. Nothing can replace the power density. Besides, all heavy construction equipment will need to run on oil. Oil powered mining equipment refines uranium for example. Oil powered mining equipment refines lithium for electric car batteries. The whole exercise is nonsense. What you don't seem to grasp is that this way of life is entirely enabled by oil. The planet can support 10 billion people but driving, trade, and transit would be a luxury. Thats what you don't get.

BZZT! Wrong. Science has a pretty good handle on how the Earth's population is growing and where it will top out. As more of the planet industrializes birth rate drops down to barely maintaining replacement rate. Skyrocketing population is a 3rd world problem and it's a diminishing issue.

But where you're completely dropping the ball is by assuming that the Earth will turn into some Soylent Green post-apocalyptic thunderdome society overnight and that's just complete and utter bullshit. As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, the Earth CAN'T exceed its carrying capacity simply by over-populating itself. If it tips a little over, a few people starve and it gets back to stasis almost immediately. There CANNOT be some nightmare scenario with 10 billion people fighting for 5 billion shares of food without some external factor catastrophically and almost instantly diminishing food production capability. If we overpopulate the planet by even a little it self-corrects by that little almost immediately and we don't reproduce fast enough for anything else to happen. That nightmare scenario you're imagining is just that, an imaginary nightmare. It can't happen that way through breeding alone. Without some doomsday factor like a war, asteroid, etc radically altering climate it can't happen at all.

 

[Ruptga]

I believe that a man with a beard worked six while days to create planet earth then took a personal on the 7th.

And that's where humanity comes from. A man with a beard.

That's dumb I think the earth was created the moment I was born and the whole wide world is just a dream.

Scratch that a magic naked bunny garden proofed out of nothing in an ultimate instance of absurdity.

Now wait for it... The most ridiculous explanation of all...

A bunch of bipedal creatures that poop and pee, procreate via sticking penises up vaginas, with boogers up their noses evolves through the process of natural selection on a giant ball orbiting a giant fireball amongst seemingly infinite nothingness, which originated from totally rational laws of physics with no magic, design or anything.

No matter what you think you're probably wong--something is fishy here.

I wish souls and magic were real things so I could summon Freud and sic him on you.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Nobody can deny the contributions that Freud, Watson and Rogers have made to the realm of psychology. Even though I might not agree with everything that they did I can see the benefits in the knowledge that they obtained and shared through their research.

 

[Paratus]

Yea for what, one more generation at the current growth rate? Pretty short sighted. Someone in 1910 KNEW that there were zero sustainability problems but right now sustainability problems are flashing up everywhere.

Where is NYC going to expand? Where is SF going to expand? Is there enough fuel for 2 billion cars? We already have 1 billion.

The argument that we can "just replace" oil is naive. A 4 pump gas station with all the pumps going is equivalent to a nuclear power plant. Nothing can replace the power density. Besides, all heavy construction equipment will need to run on oil. Oil powered mining equipment refines uranium for example. Oil powered mining equipment refines lithium for electric car batteries. The whole exercise is nonsense. What you don't seem to grasp is that this way of life is entirely enabled by oil. The planet can support 10 billion people but driving, trade, and transit would be a luxury. Thats what you don't get.

A lot of bullshit here. Sure oil makes a great fuel but there's other alternatives. Electric cars, (Tesla, GM Bolt &Volt, BMW, i3 & i8, Nissan Leaf, etc) already have the range to meet most people's daily driving needs. They don't need nearly as much energy as ICE cars.

(Roughly 300 mile range for 80-100 kwh battery packs vs 550kwh in 15 gallons of gas.)

Electrics can be charged from any power source including 0 carbon sources.

The entire worlds energy usage could be replaced with nuclear breeder reactors and not require an increase in U238 mining. It could also be replaced by 200km X 200km two axis 40-50% efficient solar arrays.

Hell with enough energy we can pull CO2 out of the air or water and use it to make a liquid carbon fuel for transportation that's CO2 neutral. The navy has been working on that
http://m.navaltoday.com/#newsitem-127325

So while you're correct about the way the world has been there's nothing that says it must remain that way. If you notice we no longer use wood powered steam engines or horses to get around. There's no reason we have to keep using ICE engines powered from dinojuice.

 

[Paratus]

I believe that a man with a beard worked six while days to create planet earth then took a personal on the 7th.

And that's where humanity comes from. A man with a beard.

That's dumb I think the earth was created the moment I was born and the whole wide world is just a dream.

Scratch that a magic naked bunny garden proofed out of nothing in an ultimate instance of absurdity.

Now wait for it... The most ridiculous explanation of all...

A bunch of bipedal creatures that poop and pee, procreate via sticking penises up vaginas, with boogers up their noses evolves through the process of natural selection on a giant ball orbiting a giant fireball amongst seemingly infinite nothingness, which originated from totally rational laws of physics with no magic, design or anything.

No matter what you think you're probably wong--something is fishy here.

You're WRONG. I'm not arguing I'm TELLING YOU.

I'm beginning to wonder if this guy isn't an alt for buckshot. :hmm:

So tell me. Why do you have a problem with physics? It can explain hydrogen to stars to planets to life. It's also why that device you are using works. So please enlighten us about why it works for somethings but not others. I'm all ears. (Just keep the "potty" talk out of it. I swear you're obsessed with dicks and butts. )

 

[Einzige]

Nobody can deny the contributions that Freud, Watson and Rogers have made to the realm of psychology. Even though I might not agree with everything that they did I can see the benefits in the knowledge that they obtained and shared through their research.

I can. Modern psychology/psychiatry is a joke. Modern medicine is in large part a joke for that matter, although obviously not entirely cuz life expectancy is way up.

 

[Einzige]

You're WRONG. I'm not arguing I'm TELLING YOU.

I'm beginning to wonder if this guy isn't an alt for buckshot. :hmm:

So tell me. Why do you have a problem with physics? It can explain hydrogen to stars to planets to life. It's also why that device you are using works. So please enlighten us about why it works for somethings but not others. I'm all ears. (Just keep the "potty" talk out of it. I swear you're obsessed with dicks and butts. )

Because we're all living in a magic dream where we can part the seas, walk on water, and make pigs fly. Duh.

Physics is obviously an illusion.

All I'm saying is that all explanations for the origin of life are patently absurd.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Because we're all living in a magic dream where we can part the seas, walk on water, and make pigs fly. Duh.

Physics is obviously an illusion.

All I'm saying is that all explanations for the origin of life are patently absurd.

No. What you're saying is that YOU dismiss anything that YOU don't understand as "patently absurd".

 

[Einzige]

No. What you're saying is that YOU dismiss anything that YOU don't understand as "patently absurd".

Rational laws of physics and biology results in cknscious, intelligent beings with meaningful lives full of art and relationships that poop, pee and procreate via sticking penises up vaginas and pooping babies out a hole right above the butthole who live on a giant ball orbiting a giant fireball. Who kill cute fuzzy creatures and eat their flesh.

What isn't patently absurd about that?

In any case the point is flying over your head... you apparently think I'm arguing for th case of god, which I am not.

Que stock responses that I've heard before...

 

[OverVolt]

A lot of bullshit here. Sure oil makes a great fuel but there's other alternatives. Electric cars, (Tesla, GM Bolt &Volt, BMW, i3 & i8, Nissan Leaf, etc) already have the range to meet most people's daily driving needs. They don't need nearly as much energy as ICE cars.

(Roughly 300 mile range for 80-100 kwh battery packs vs 550kwh in 15 gallons of gas.)

Electrics can be charged from any power source including 0 carbon sources.

The entire worlds energy usage could be replaced with nuclear breeder reactors and not require an increase in U238 mining. It could also be replaced by 200km X 200km two axis 40-50% efficient solar arrays.

Hell with enough energy we can pull CO2 out of the air or water and use it to make a liquid carbon fuel for transportation that's CO2 neutral. The navy has been working on that
http://m.navaltoday.com/#newsitem-127325

So while you're correct about the way the world has been there's nothing that says it must remain that way. If you notice we no longer use wood powered steam engines or horses to get around. There's no reason we have to keep using ICE engines powered from dinojuice.

So in an industry like mining how do you get resources in remote areas. Like diamonds out of North Canada?

You're naive as to how big the planet really is being a city dweller. Lithium ion powered dump trucks?

The "stuff" that actually runs society, the infrastructure, is entirely run on dinojuice. Getting people to work is trivial compared to where I am in West Virginia. You can get eggs for $1.90 that were trucked up 3,000ft elevation and the nearest large city is 200 miles away. Do that on a lithium ion battery.

They are already eyeing the arctic for resources. You go take your batteries into the cold 1,500 miles from the nearest town. Or cross the antarctic on a battery. I'm waiting.

Where are the Tesla Backhoes? Bulldozers? Logging trucks? Didn't think so.

 

[Paratus]

Because we're all living in a magic dream where we can part the seas, walk on water, and make pigs fly. Duh.

Physics is obviously an illusion.

All I'm saying is that all explanations for the origin of life are patently absurd.

Explanations without evidence are absurd. Explanations with evidence are not.

• Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are supported
• Star formation is supported
• Stellar synthesis of elements is supported
• Planatery formation is supported
• Formation of simple organic compounds are supported
• Evolution from single cell to multicellular life is supported

The Abiogenesis hypothesis is still under investigation.

You see the scientific method is a wonderful way to seperate facts from bullshit and to not lie to ourselves.

 

[Gibsons]

Physics is obviously an illusion.

uh, no. It's as real as our existence. Now, our existence itself might be just an illusion. But we can only work with what we've got.

All I'm saying is that all explanations for the origin of life are patently absurd.

Quantum mechanics is pretty absurd, imo, but it sure seems to be right.

(Not to disagree with what Paratus said)

 

[OverVolt]

BZZT! Wrong. Science has a pretty good handle on how the Earth's population is growing and where it will top out. As more of the planet industrializes birth rate drops down to barely maintaining replacement rate. Skyrocketing population is a 3rd world problem and it's a diminishing issue.

But where you're completely dropping the ball is by assuming that the Earth will turn into some Soylent Green post-apocalyptic thunderdome society overnight and that's just complete and utter bullshit. As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, the Earth CAN'T exceed its carrying capacity simply by over-populating itself. If it tips a little over, a few people starve and it gets back to stasis almost immediately. There CANNOT be some nightmare scenario with 10 billion people fighting for 5 billion shares of food without some external factor catastrophically and almost instantly diminishing food production capability. If we overpopulate the planet by even a little it self-corrects by that little almost immediately and we don't reproduce fast enough for anything else to happen. That nightmare scenario you're imagining is just that, an imaginary nightmare. It can't happen that way through breeding alone. Without some doomsday factor like a war, asteroid, etc radically altering climate it can't happen at all.

Just like we will probably model a bacteria plateau there is precedence for those plateaus being known for randomly collapsing. Actually it happens in nature quite frequently when a niche in nature is at its carrying capacity. But thats misinterpreting what I was saying anyway.

Life without oil would look very different. The EROEI is not that great for alternative energy sources and it never will be. We already feel the strain just going from Light sweet crude to shale. There is a knock-on effect as the EROEI of oil drops. The less surplus energy the lower the standard of living. The lower the standard of living there is less sanitation, global trade, etc. Sanitation is really the biggest hidden reason for increasing life expectancy. I think in the future there will be technology mixed in with simple living. It won't be that bad. But something like flying somewhere for vacation will be out of the question. It just will not be affordable. Rewire yourself to realize thats how the future will be. If flying is out of the question, so is alot of other stuff. Long distance travel away from a city is going to be an issue. Rivers will become more prevalent for industrial transport and will be very congested. You think technology can solve all our problems and everything will stay the same. Even if we had the technology what we do is stupid and based on a dinojuice system.

 

[Paratus]

So in an industry like mining how do you get resources in remote areas. Like diamonds out of North Canada?

You're naive as to how big the planet really is being a city dweller. Lithium ion powered dump trucks?

The "stuff" that actually runs society, the infrastructure, is entirely run on dinojuice. Getting people to work is trivial compared to where I am in West Virginia. You can get eggs for $1.90 that were trucked up 3,000ft elevation and the nearest large city is 200 miles away. Do that on a lithium ion battery.

They are already eyeing the arctic for resources. You go take your batteries into the cold 1,500 miles from the nearest town. Or cross the antarctic on a battery. I'm waiting.

Where are the Tesla Backhoes? Bulldozers? Logging trucks? Didn't think so.

So make CO2 neutral carbon fuels like I already said.

Electric industrial vehicles are in development.
https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/27/mercedes-unveils-worlds-first-completely-electric-semi-truck/

Oh I probably wouldn't use a battery 1500 miles into the cold. Maybe this instead.

 

[Einzige]

Explanations without evidence are absurd. Explanations with evidence are not.

• Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are supported
• Star formation is supported
• Stellar synthesis of elements is supported
• Planatery formation is supported
• Formation of simple organic compounds are supported
• Evolution from single cell to multicellular life is supported

The Abiogenesis hypothesis is still under investigation.

You see the scientific method is a wonderful way to seperate facts from bullshit and to not lie to ourselves.

And all of these complex, rational sciences explain how a bunch of bipedal creatures with fulfilling lives full of relationships, stories, music and art (the human experience) who poop, pee, and procreate via shitting babies out vaginas came to be.

Living on a giant ball orbiting a giant fireball.

That's not absurd because evidence supports it? It's absurd even if there is evidence.

And I'm not going to state this again: I am only pointing out that all explanations for the origin of life are ridiculous and absurd.

Que stock responses that ive heard before, including the one above.

I'll give you a few minutes to realize you're arguing a strawman.

Need a hint? I'm just pointing out absurdities--both magical and rational explanations are totally absurd.

 

[Paratus]

Just like we will probably model a bacteria plateau there is precedence for those plateaus being known for randomly collapsing. Actually it happens in nature quite frequently when a niche in nature is at its carrying capacity. But thats misinterpreting what I was saying anyway.

Life without oil would look very different. The EROEI is not that great for alternative energy sources and it never will be. We already feel the strain just going from Light sweet crude to shale. There is a knock-on effect as the EROEI of oil drops. The less surplus energy the lower the standard of living. The lower the standard of living there is less sanitation, global trade, etc. Sanitation is really the biggest hidden reason for increasing life expectancy. I think in the future there will be technology mixed in with simple living. It won't be that bad. But something like flying somewhere for vacation will be out of the question. It just will not be affordable. Rewire yourself to realize thats how the future will be. If flying is out of the question, so is alot of other stuff. Long distance travel away from a city is going to be an issue. Rivers will become more prevalent for industrial transport and will be very congested. You think technology can solve all our problems and everything will stay the same. Even if we had the technology what we do is stupid and based on a dinojuice system.

The EROEI of solar is based on type of cell and the irradiation level. Newer thin film cells in the American southwest are in the neighborhood of coal.

Efficiencies are improving:

The market agrees with this:

If you want to keep up the doom and gloom you'd be better off focusing on energy storage.

 

[Paratus]

And all of these complex, rational sciences explain how a bunch of bipedal creatures with fulfilling lives full of relationships, stories, music and art (the human experience) who poop, pee, and procreate via shitting babies out vaginas came to be.

Living on a giant ball orbiting a giant fireball.

That's not absurd because evidence supports it? It's absurd even if there is evidence.

And I'm not going to state this again: I am only pointing out that all explanations for the origin of life are ridiculous and absurd.

Que stock responses that ive heard before, including the one above.

I'll give you a few minutes to realize you're arguing a strawman.

Need a hint? I'm just pointing out absurdities--both magical and rational explanations are totally absurd.

No need. I'll return the favor and give you a hint as well:

My answers while addressed to you aren't really intended for you.

 

[OverVolt]

The EROEI of solar is based on type of cell and the irradiation level. Newer thin film cells in the American southwest are in the neighborhood of coal.

Efficiencies are improving:

The market agrees with this:

If you want to keep up the doom and gloom you'd be better off focusing on energy storage.

You mean solar cells subsidized by a primarily fossil fuel economy still? Those solar cells?

I'm not saying there will be no technology. Living is going to be much more simple. Powering some small electronics from a solar cell is great and I bet it'll be a part of every home in the future. You just won't be able to ship christmas deorations some guy made in china 18,000 miles for less than a dollar. Things will have to become more localized. Globalization relies on fossil fuels. I actually think I would like the life style better, but I think most would be unhappy. Its just that after a day of learning on the computer you probably have to go tend the garden. There will be no more lemons in winter. That kind of thing. Food costs will probably be very high and technology will probably be very cheap comparatively. You see this happening now anyway.

 

[Einzige]

No need. I'll return the favor and give you a hint as well:

My answers while addressed to you aren't really intended for you.

Oh ho ho, who are they for then, the masses being lead astray by my nonsense? Thought you'd set them all straight with some cold, hard facts?

Don't worry no one listens to me anyways.

 

[SSSnail]

Oh ho ho, who are they for then, the masses being lead astray by my nonsense? Thought you'd set them all straight with some cold, hard facts?

Don't worry no one listens to me anyways.

Actually, no, it's just you and your friends inside your head.

 

[John Connor]

I actually wrote the Bible and I can tell you it didn't take earth very long to form, and God said it is indeed very old.