How often do you guys need to update your graphics cards?

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

elimination of LCD? . . . . not sure what you mean.

Lowest common denominator. Games released today have to run on R9200s with P4 1.4GHZ and 256MB of RAM for the most part. You aren't going to sell crap requiring 6800U-SLI setup paired with an A64 x2 4400

Compared to Unreal3, current PC games [also] look like a joke in comparison

The Unreal3 engine is targetting the next gen consoles- not a particular PC technology point(according to Sweeney). Here is a clip of Madden for the next gen consoles.

As long as "anytime save" becomes standard for console games, i might consider a next gen platform

For the XBox it already is pretty much in all games(some titles like racers it isn't, but that is true on the PC also). Actually, many of the GameCube and PS2 games allow you to save anywhere, and that was with last(this) gens relatively puny meory cards.

The "lowest common denominator" has always been the problem with PC gaming.

And it is rising . . . . you're quoting "minimum", i.e."barely playable" for a gamer . . . "recommended" is fast becoming 3(+)Ghz/9800xt (or better w/256MB vRAM) and 1GB(+) RAM.

Unreal3 engine is targeting the PC . . . the 6600gt being the new 'minimum' card.

i know about the 'anytime save' . . . Consoles of the past were extremely limited in savings and 'checkpoints' were mandatory. i fully expect next gen consoles to have this included (the developers deciding if the game is to have it - not due to any limitations).
[Far Cry doesn't have "anytime save" except thru a 'hack']

Thanks for that Madden clip . . . however, i'm on dial-up . . . i'll check it out later . . . much later . . .
:disgust:

EDIT: That Madden link only goes to screen shots.
No clip.

 

[JohnAn2112]

About every 2 years or so.
ATI Radeon VE -> Geforce 4 TI 4600 -> ATI Radeon 9700 Pro -> ATI Radeon X800 Pro

 

[Zebo]

You definity don't need to upgrade but every 5+ years.. For 5+years you could play smooth as silk but there are some sacrfices.

Year 1- 1600x1200 4xaa/4xaf
Year 2- 1280x960 4xaa/4xaf
Year 3- 1024x768 4xaa/4xaf
Year 4- 1024x768
Year 5- 800x600

The problem, and why we upgrade, is it's hard to go backwards.

I upgrade every generation.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Can you tell us if both markets have equal measure of importance? Can you tell us what are the important criterias involved when you want to develop a game that you want to sell "equally well" on both markets? Bear in mind that we are in the "next-generation consoles will soon be available" timeframe.

The platform focus varies from team to team, and obviously you could expect different areas of focus from the several Unreal Engine 3 licensees that have been announced, including BioWare, Midway, and Microsoft. That's a pretty diverse group! Looking at the big picture, I expect the majority of oversall sales of UE3 based games will be on console platforms, and that expectation is driving a lot of our design priorities with the engine.

However, even if we lived in a world where 100% of game sales occurred on consoles, that wouldn't remove PC from the picture. Everyone uses PC as their development platform, and with Unreal's visual what-you-see-is-what-you-get tools, high-quality, high performance PC support is absolutely required for that.

Tim Sweeney

Rev talking to Sweeney at the Pulpit.

EDIT: That Madden link only goes to screen shots.

Grrr, it was up this morning..... here you go. The broadband version is less then 7MB download.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I expect the majority of oversall sales of UE3 based games will be on console platforms, and that expectation is driving a lot of our design priorities with the engine.

However, even if we lived in a world where 100% of game sales occurred on consoles, that wouldn't remove PC from the picture. Everyone uses PC as their development platform, and with Unreal's visual what-you-see-is-what-you-get tools, high-quality, high performance PC support is absolutely required for that.

i underlined the "important part" (i read the interview) . . . they expect their SALES of U3 based platform games to eclipse PC sales.

Well, duh.

i am not really certain . . . what was your point? [my point was that the U3 engine will be used BOTH for PC and platform games]

thanks for the new link . . . the screenies didn't look better than upcoming PC titles using Unreal3 . . .. i'll d/l it on a "break" and comment in an "edit".

EDIT: OK, i STOPPED the D/L . . . WTH does this mean?:

And here we are... the next generation is almost upon us. These screenshots actually came from a promotional TV advert (which you can download above) for Madden NFL Next Gen (we expect it to have a year put on eventually). What is undenyable is that every single frame in the advert looks absolutely astonishing. There's two main things to note however. The first is that these scenes aren't from the actual PS3 game, nor XBox 360, but are a representation of what the game will look like. The second thing. The development team is apparently a little upset that EA are releasing these screens and movies so early. The reason; apparently the actual game will look much better! Welcome to the next generation folks...

not from the game?!
:shocked:
apparently?
:roll:
:thumbsdown:

 

[Zebo]

ben

Any way to watch this w/o quicktime?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zebo
ben

Any way to watch this w/o quicktime?

honestly, if is not from the game, is it really worth looking at?
(seriously)

[or did i miss something? - again]

 

[Rock Hydra]

I upgrade when I can't run a game that I really like that's not heavily CPU intensive at a decent frame rate, with all settings maxed above 800x600. (No AA/AF)

 

[BenSkywalker]

i am not really certain . . . what was your point?

Their design priorities are on the consoles, which is what I said he had stated.

not from the game?!

Considering the final hardware isn't done yet, what exactly did you expect...? It is using a render based on the features the game is going to have(along with the art assets from the game) but it is actually inferior on numerous counts(not the least of which is the game will be running native 1080i).

honestly, if is not from the game, is it really worth looking at?

That is how things are done on the console side prior to final hardware being available; it is standard fare actually.

Zebo-

Not AFAIK. It actually took me a bit to find the link I did. It was previously up on EA's site(as of yesterday morning). I'd imagine they will be running that, or something better, on May 12th on MTV when they do the XB360 promo.

 

[biostud]

every 18-24 months or so.
Matrox mystique
Voodoo II
GF2 GTS
GF4 4200
R9800pro
Next G70 or r520

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

i am not really certain . . . what was your point?

Their design priorities are on the consoles, which is what I said he had stated.

not from the game?!

Considering the final hardware isn't done yet, what exactly did you expect...? It is using a render based on the features the game is going to have(along with the art assets from the game) but it is actually inferior on numerous counts(not the least of which is the game will be running native 1080i).

honestly, if is not from the game, is it really worth looking at?

That is how things are done on the console side prior to final hardware being available; it is standard fare actually.

Zebo-

Not AFAIK. It actually took me a bit to find the link I did. It was previously up on EA's site(as of yesterday morning). I'd imagine they will be running that, or something better, on May 12th on MTV when they do the XB360 promo.

"Their design priorities are on the consoles" . . . is NOT what they stated- he actually said: "that expectation is driving a lot of our design priorities with the engine". - they were talking about 'overall sales' [favouring the consoles] making it critical to make their engine 'console-friendly' [unlike the past where the PC gfx had 'priority'; the current xbox changed that trend . . . continues with Xbox360].

thanks for the link, but i can wait for the final deal. . . . i remember looking at the HL2 "representations" . . . . the actual game didn't live up to them. . . . .

EDIT: Something interesting from the Unreal3 site:

Normal Maps & Texture maps
We are authoring most character and world normal maps and texture maps at 2048x2048 resolution. We feel this is a good target for games running on mid-range PC's in the 2006 timeframe. Next-generation consoles may require reducing texture resolution by 2X, and low-end PC's up to 4X, depending on texture count and scene complexity.[/b]

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Whenever my games can't run optimally.

Change "optimally" to "acceptably" and you have my opinion. If I can't get the settings/res I want, I upgrade.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Zebo
ben

Any way to watch this w/o quicktime?

Quicktime Alternative. And don't call me Ben

 

[trinibwoy]

Woohoo first post!!!

Don't forget that every new generation brings new features as well as performance. So not only will you have to drop resolution, you may miss out on some core gameplay elements only supported by more recent hardware. Not to mention games that will be unplayable because they require a certain feature set.

Originally posted by: Zebo
You definity don't need to upgrade but every 5+ years.. For 5+years you could play smooth as silk but there are some sacrfices.

Year 1- 1600x1200 4xaa/4xaf
Year 2- 1280x960 4xaa/4xaf
Year 3- 1024x768 4xaa/4xaf
Year 4- 1024x768
Year 5- 800x600

The problem, and why we upgrade, is it's hard to go backwards.

I upgrade every generation.

 

[Zebo]

Thanks Gurck, But I was asking BenSkywalker. after all he linked the madden .mov

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Thanks Gurck, But I was asking BenSkywalker. after all he linked the madden .mov

Roger, Roger.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
umm, the xbox never edged out a pc

Sure it did - for a couple of months when it was first released - till the 9700p came out.

The GF4 and P3/early p4 was out when the x-box was using a moded GF3 with a Intel celeron.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
umm, the xbox never edged out a pc

Sure it did - for a couple of months when it was first released - till the 9700p came out.

The GF4 and P3/early p4 was out when the x-box was using a moded GF3 with a Intel celeron.

And best of all, it's easy to upgrade the xbo... er, wait a minute...

 

[ericlala]

my geforce 4 mx 440 lasted me about 4 years... plan to get a 6600gt soon, hope that will last me a good while.

 

[bradyapba]

i think i upgrade about every 2 years.

I cant remember the orginal VC, but then I upgraded to a Gainward GF 3 golden sample, then aobut 2 years later a Gainward Ti4200 golden sample, Which I think i Had for 2 to 3 years, then last Nov. I upgraded to a PNY 6800 vanilla, on black Friday for $199. I try to keep the VC upgrade under $200, and OC the best I can.


Chris

 

[BenSkywalker]

The GF4 and P3/early p4 was out when the x-box was using a moded GF3 with a Intel celeron.

While the statement is worded so it is accurate, you make it sound as if the GF4 was out when the XBox launched which certainly wasn't the case. It was several months before the NV25 hit after the launch of the XBox.

"Their design priorities are on the consoles" . . . is NOT what they stated- he actually said: "that expectation is driving a lot of our design priorities with the engine". - they were talking about 'overall sales' [favouring the consoles] making it critical to make their engine 'console-friendly' [unlike the past where the PC gfx had 'priority'; the current xbox changed that trend . . . continues with Xbox360].

Because they expect the majority of their sales to be on consoles, their expectation that is driving their design priorities means they focus on the PC......?

thanks for the link, but i can wait for the final deal. . . . i remember looking at the HL2 "representations" . . . . the actual game didn't live up to them. . . . .

Gabe Newell is a blatant and shameless liar though, much like Molyneux. EA may be a lot of things but I don't recall their first party hyping the visuals on any title and then falling short. This is besides the fact that the game should be looking considerably better then what they displayed.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

The GF4 and P3/early p4 was out when the x-box was using a moded GF3 with a Intel celeron.

While the statement is worded so it is accurate, you make it sound as if the GF4 was out when the XBox launched which certainly wasn't the case. It was several months before the NV25 hit after the launch of the XBox.

"Their design priorities are on the consoles" . . . is NOT what they stated- he actually said: "that expectation is driving a lot of our design priorities with the engine". - they were talking about 'overall sales' [favouring the consoles] making it critical to make their engine 'console-friendly' [unlike the past where the PC gfx had 'priority'; the current xbox changed that trend . . . continues with Xbox360].

Because they expect the majority of their sales to be on consoles, their expectation that is driving their design priorities means they focus on the PC......?

thanks for the link, but i can wait for the final deal. . . . i remember looking at the HL2 "representations" . . . . the actual game didn't live up to them. . . . .

Gabe Newell is a blatant and shameless liar though, much like Molyneux. EA may be a lot of things but I don't recall their first party hyping the visuals on any title and then falling short. This is besides the fact that the game should be looking considerably better then what they displayed.

The "focus" on the PC as a development tool for the platforms neither adds nor takes away from PC gaming . . .. it just places an emphasis on designing an Engine that completely addresses platform gaming.

Did you notice also [of course you did] that the LCD is being raised for PC gaming - DX9/WinXP is the minimum they are coding for and the 6600GT will be the minimum card.

I had to laugh at your comment on Gabe Newell . . . [no further comment] but i will still wait before i do long d/l of "representations" of what something "should look like".

it'll be soon enough, i imagine.

I think you are overestimating the next gen's consoles 'muscle' in relation to next gen PC gaming. nVidia and ATI still have a HUGE stake in PC gaming and aren't about to lose their fans to platforms (don't tell me they make GPUs for platforms - i know).

 

[BenSkywalker]

I think you are overestimating the next gen's consoles 'muscle' in relation to next gen PC gaming. nVidia and ATI still have a HUGE stake in PC gaming and aren't about to lose their fans to platforms (don't tell me they make GPUs for platforms - i know).

Consoles at launch have always overpowered the PC, and due to LCD that rift is amplified significantly. We aren't going to see a title that requires a 6600GT as the baseline for quite a while yet, while the consoles will be requiring an equivelant to next gens high end parts. I've been gaming on all the platforms now for decades, the consoles start off with a huge lead that is gradually wiped away and then they are surpassed by PCs until the next gen kicks off.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I think you are overestimating the next gen's consoles 'muscle' in relation to next gen PC gaming. nVidia and ATI still have a HUGE stake in PC gaming and aren't about to lose their fans to platforms (don't tell me they make GPUs for platforms - i know).

Consoles at launch have always overpowered the PC, and due to LCD that rift is amplified significantly. We aren't going to see a title that requires a 6600GT as the baseline for quite a while yet, while the consoles will be requiring an equivelant to next gens high end parts. I've been gaming on all the platforms now for decades, the consoles start off with a huge lead that is gradually wiped away and then they are surpassed by PCs until the next gen kicks off.

well, damn!

We are finally agreed

just not on the 'details'
(i think PC gaming catches up with consoles faster than you do . . . in '06 - with Unreal3 games - by my estimate . . . but then consoles have lagged the PC for a couple of years now)