Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Originally posted by: Descartes
Your location has nothing to do with it... nothing. It is your liability and not that of the company. That's the only thing to consider here. If you worked for me I'd pay you what you're worth, and not twice that amount just because you happened to have a few clients on the side at your primary location. Think about that for a moment...
Aha! But that brings us back to the whole point of this thread.
Is it that the employer doesn't know what I'm
worth or simply not willing to disclose that because he doesn't want to have to pay that much!
It's all in negotiations man. Two things: One, they don't want to pay more than necessary; two, they're going to use your self-valuation (note I said
valuation) as an indication as an indication of your experience. You see, if you go for a Product Management position and suggest $50k they're going to consider you suspect, without question. If you go at them with $200k they're going to consider you overvalued (most likely--I know there are exceptions). There is a happy medium there, and by asking this ostensibly simple question they get a cross-section of your value. They might of course also consider the market value (I can't believe I just said that in reference to a person, but hopefully you get my meaning) of someone in your position, and how far you aberrate from that value colors their overall perception of your worth.
He knows what product managers make. He has others. Asking me to move and then throwing me a number based on what I tell him I currently make is too easy for him.
Indeed. It's a way to very quickly see who you really are. It's an aggressive play on his part, and I think by our somewhat lengthy conversation you can see this. It removes any responsibility on his part and puts it entirely on you.
I know where you're coming from, and perhaps you're just that much more of an upstanding person than my current potential employer. So I take back what I said about not wanting to work for you.... 😉
Kind words appreciated. I just like people getting paid what they're worth, and I've been known to actually argue for more when I feel they undervalue themselves; I've also been known to argue the opposite when someone is obviously overvaluing themselves.
I don't like these types of games during negotiations, so I like to bring it all out on the table.
....but coming up to me and saying, "Jon, I think you're worth 120K. Come work for me." and "Jon, I want you to work for me. How much do you make?" are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
But see, now we have the total opposite: He assumed more responsibility than you. Saying such things obviously makes it easy for you (unless they offered you something like $20k in which case you might as well just forget about negotiations)
It's like chess, really. Who has the opening move, and do they control the center? Do you move your king's pawn to the center as though to say, "I'm worth $120k", or do you instead offer up something like the rook's pawn as if to say, "Your turn; You tell me." How aggressive one is in the beginning can undermine the other side for the entire negotiation. I prefer a balanced play by allowing both access to the center, and in so doing you get a better understanding of both sides.
Sorry about the chess metaphor. I glanced at a chess book while writing this.
