How much should a Product Manager get paid???

[jonnyGURU]

I'm just wondering what the position normally pays.

I think I might be getting jipped at my current job and a new position of product manager at another job opened up and when they approached me about the job, they asked me how much I currently made. Therefore, I must believe that they based their "offer" on that dollar figure, but I have to move for this new job and although it would pay more, I'm noticing the cost of living, home prices, etc. are more expensive than where I'm at now.

I'm just curious what such a position pays in salary normally, without someone gaging it on what I currently make. I know what I make now is based on what I made before, so I think it's time to just break the cycle and start getting paid what I DESERVE, NOT what I can get by on.

 

[Triforceofcourage]

eleventy billion dollars....
sorry, couldn't resist 🙂

 

[Kadarin]

In the tech industry in the SF Bay Area, a Product Manager can easily make six figures.

 

[Smackem]

Probaly depends on the project.

 

[DivideBYZero]

8c

 

[Descartes]

I've consulted with a number of companies both large and small, and the in-house (almost always in-house) product manager's are always in the six-figure area. The project I am consulting on right now has about 4 product managers, and they're each pulling in between $150 and $200k. Now, that might not be the norm, but this particular well-known company seems to have higher salaries than I've experienced.

[edit]I should note that titles really mean nothing in the end; it's the responsibilities that count. I've known product managers that were really no more than project laisons or leads, and their salaries reflected that fact. Real product managers have a huge number of responsibilities, and they're ultimately responsible for the end-product. Their value might be most accurately based on the value of that end-product.[/edit]

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
In the tech industry in the SF Bay Area, a Product Manager can easily make six figures.

Yeah.. And you would NEED six figures to work out there!

When I was at our corp offices in Boston, I was talking to some of the ops girls and they were talking about how they were renting 1/1 apartments for $1500. Now I KNOW that they might be making the same, if not more, than me because there's NO WAY you can pay $1500 for rent and have any money left over for anything.

So this tells me that my boss is getting by with paying me a little more than my last job because he knows the cost of living is lower here. I think he does the same with everyone else in the Florida office too.

I just want to break the cycle. I lied about what I made by $12000 and they still bumped that by $10000. Too easy. So I'm thinking, Ok. Before I accept, I need to see what it's going to cost to move from Central to South Florida. Houses are twice as much money. So mortgage is going to be twice as much, right? So now I'm thinking, "Hmm... People down there must be getting paid more, or why would they live down there?" You know?

 

[Drakkon]

product manager is considered to be higher up than the project managers (at least that has been my experience)...thus get paid a good 20-40% more than project managers...meaning 6 figures isnt out of the question...definately in the 75-100K range (depending on company size of course) though...good job 🙂

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Descartes
I've consulted with a number of companies both large and small, and the in-house (almost always in-house) product manager's are always in the six-figure area. The project I am consulting on right now has about 4 product managers, and they're each pulling in between $150 and $200k. Now, that might not be the norm, but this particular well-known company seems to have higher salaries than I've experienced.

[edit]I should note that titles really mean nothing in the end; it's the responsibilities that count. I've known product managers that were really no more than project laisons or leads, and their salaries reflected that fact. Real product managers have a huge number of responsibilities, and they're ultimately responsible for the end-product. Their value might be most accurately based on the value of that end-product.[/edit]

Six figures would be nice, but...

Essentially, I would be responsible for new computer and electronics ideas, what to import, what not to import, what to design from the ground up, is it worth an extra $.50 for the little plastic doohickey.. stuff like that.

 

[ScottMac]

Are you have a PMP (Certified Project Manager)?

As in many things, the label "Project Manager" can cover a very broad scope of jobs.

Not all "Project Managers" are going to knock down six figures, don't kid yourself.

FWIW

Scott

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes
I've consulted with a number of companies both large and small, and the in-house (almost always in-house) product manager's are always in the six-figure area. The project I am consulting on right now has about 4 product managers, and they're each pulling in between $150 and $200k. Now, that might not be the norm, but this particular well-known company seems to have higher salaries than I've experienced.

[edit]I should note that titles really mean nothing in the end; it's the responsibilities that count. I've known product managers that were really no more than project laisons or leads, and their salaries reflected that fact. Real product managers have a huge number of responsibilities, and they're ultimately responsible for the end-product. Their value might be most accurately based on the value of that end-product.[/edit]

Six figures would be nice, but...

Essentially, I would be responsible for new computer and electronics ideas, what to import, what not to import, what to design from the ground up, is it worth an extra $.50 for the little plastic doohickey.. stuff like that.

The thing to remember is that even if they don't pay you you will gain some great experence that coud translate into money down the road.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
Are you have a PMP (Certified Project Manager)?

As in many things, the label "Project Manager" can cover a very broad scope of jobs.

Not all "Project Managers" are going to knock down six figures, don't kid yourself.

FWIW

Scott

Project Manager is nothing at all like a Product Manager.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
Are you have a PMP (Certified Project Manager)?

As in many things, the label "Project Manager" can cover a very broad scope of jobs.

Not all "Project Managers" are going to knock down six figures, don't kid yourself.

FWIW

Scott

Product manager. Not project manager. Quite a big difference IMHO. 😉

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
In the tech industry in the SF Bay Area, a Product Manager can easily make six figures.

Yeah.. And you would NEED six figures to work out there!

When I was at our corp offices in Boston, I was talking to some of the ops girls and they were talking about how they were renting 1/1 apartments for $1500. Now I KNOW that they might be making the same, if not more, than me because there's NO WAY you can pay $1500 for rent and have any money left over for anything.

So this tells me that my boss is getting by with paying me a little more than my last job because he knows the cost of living is lower here. I think he does the same with everyone else in the Florida office too.

I just want to break the cycle. I lied about what I made by $12000 and they still bumped that by $10000. Too easy. So I'm thinking, Ok. Before I accept, I need to see what it's going to cost to move from Central to South Florida. Houses are twice as much money. So mortgage is going to be twice as much, right? So now I'm thinking, "Hmm... People down there must be getting paid more, or why would they live down there?" You know?

Uhh, I guess you're not expecting them to review anything about your past employment? A simple background check will show that you lied. Starting off on a lie isn't a good move.

Also, $1500/mo hardly requires a six-figure income. When you approach six-figures you start making that amount in a week, and if you can't make it on that you have more problems than an expensive apartment.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Uhh, I guess you're not expecting them to review anything about your past employment? A simple background check will show that you lied. Starting off on a lie isn't a good move.

Just a white lie. It's not like a submitted a fomal application. Besides, I looked at my TOTAL gross income. Salary, bonus, side projects, free-lance stuff. If I have to relocate, I can't count on ALL of my income channels being the same, if existant at all. So I felt it was best to fudge on the high end of the scale.

It's like a buddy of mine that got an IT job in a pinch (previous employer went OOB.) He maintained a personal client list of people that he would do IT work for as well as work at his full time job. He kept asking his full time job boss for a raise, but the boss wouldn't do it unless he surrendered the client list. He wouldn't do it. They were at a stale mate. What he SHOULD HAVE DONE is tell his current employer that he has an existing client list that he was willing to offer the company if he were to work for X amount of money. Hind sight is 20/20. 😉

I'm not willing to do that. If I'm relocating and picking up another gig somewhere else, I want to better than "break even" and I have to expect to leave any current projects at the wayside.

 

[dr150]

My wife: top MBA, product manager tech co. in silly valley, six figures

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes

Uhh, I guess you're not expecting them to review anything about your past employment? A simple background check will show that you lied. Starting off on a lie isn't a good move.

Just a white lie.

If you were applying for Wendy's I might say ok. Product Managers are largely junior executive positions, and white lies should no longer be a tactical tool within your employ.

It's not like a submitted a fomal application. Besides, I looked at my TOTAL gross income. Salary, bonus, side projects, free-lance stuff. If I have to relocate, I can't count on ALL of my income channels being the same, if existant at all. So I felt it was best to fudge on the high end of the scale.

If that worked I'd be in a much better position, because I could count all the income I realize from my investments too.

It's not like I don't understand the tactical advantage of a little "extension" of the truth; however, there's a difference between an embellishment of your experiences and a quantifiable lie about numbers.

It's like a buddy of mine that got an IT job in a pinch (previous employer went OOB.) He maintained a personal client list of people that he would do IT work for as well as work at his full time job. He kept asking his full time job boss for a raise, but the boss wouldn't do it unless he surrendered the client list. He wouldn't do it. They were at a stale mate. What he SHOULD HAVE DONE is tell his current employer that he has an existing client list that he was willing to offer the company if he were to work for X amount of money. Hind sight is 20/20. 😉

I don't agree with that... at all. If he had that many clients on the side that represents, in my eyes anyway, a vertical with potential growth. Why he would give up that vertical to another company for a slight bonus hasn't the same growth potential; it's limited by the capriciousness of his employers.

I'm not willing to do that. If I'm relocating and picking up another gig somewhere else, I want to better than "break even" and I have to expect to leave any current projects at the wayside.

Understood 2000%, but lying about it will only get you sent back. If I found anyone on my teams lied about such a thing they'd be gone that day.

If you feel that lies are needed for negotiation I would honestly suggest you attend a business class that specifically relates to negotiations training. Each step in the negotiation is a give to get, but it's with the understanding that that which you get is based on a realized foundation; in other words, something that is quantifiable. If that foundation is later found to be false then your negotiations fall apart and you're back on your arse. That's a huge setback that would negate any potential gains, imo.

Damn, that was longer than expected.

FWIW, I travel all over the US, and much of my initial efforts surround that of negotiation. If I was found to be selling myself on untruths I would be literally blacklisted in the market. No bueno.

Bottom of the line: Have solid business ethics and you'll go further.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes

Uhh, I guess you're not expecting them to review anything about your past employment? A simple background check will show that you lied. Starting off on a lie isn't a good move.

Just a white lie.

If you were applying for Wendy's I might say ok. Product Managers are largely junior executive positions, and white lies should no longer be a tactical tool within your employ.

Well, then I'm glad I'm not getting a job with or from you. 😀

I was informally asked "how much do you make" and I threw out a number. Lie? No. It's how much I make. If you're divorced and you get alimony or palimony, you report that as income, correct? Taxes? Have to report it. You say on that same note you could count income from investments as part of your income. Wrong. You wouldn't have to give up investments on a job you need to relocate for. Non issue.

If I have to fill out an application that asks what my paycheck is for my current employment, I'd put down the correct answer. But instead, I'm being asked not how much I NEED to make, but how much I make. If how much I'm going to be paid is going to be how much I make, then I'm going to say "this is how much I MAKE." Nobody asked me what my current salary is.

I don't agree with that... at all. If he had that many clients on the side that represents, in my eyes anyway, a vertical with potential growth. Why he would give up that vertical to another company for a slight bonus hasn't the same growth potential; it's limited by the capriciousness of his employers.

Neither myself nor any of my friends have been able to flourish on "potential vertical growth." Not that we haven't tried. I used to own a bicycle shop and one of my best friends used to own a computer shop. I bailed with minimum debt. My friend ended up filing bankruptcy. As for my IT friend with the client list: When you're accomodating clients AND working a full time job to "make ends meet," or at least live comfortably, you can't count on "potential vertical growth" to put food on the table. Some of us appreciate knowing that there's a paycheck coming in that's going to be at least a certain amount.

All he wanted was a certain amount of pay that his employer wouldn't give him without providing the client list first, and with the full time job he couldn't invest more time to that client list to help his growth, and the client list alone would not provide enough income, at least initially, to sustain any kind of lifestyle (short of living in a car eating ramen noodles.)

Look, I don't mean to be disrespectful or at all discount your advice. Yes, solid business ethics is paramount. But please don't question one's intentions if you can't appreciate the entire scenario. If I was willing to accept a mere 10K more than my current salary I wouldn't even consider the job and this discussion wouldn't exist. If they were willing to just pull a number out of thin air for what a product manager is "worth" then, again, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm trying to find the happy medium, but for me to know where to start, I was hoping someone could tell me what a product manager. That's all.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Also, $1500/mo hardly requires a six-figure income. When you approach six-figures you start making that amount in a week, and if you can't make it on that you have more problems than an expensive apartment.

I'm calling shens. 😉

$1500 per week gross would only be $72,000 per year. Even if you net $1500 per week, that's not going to be a six figure salary. I also don't think it's unreasonable for one to appreciate netting more than 75% after the mortgage is paid each month. Does EVERYONE die with debt and chose not to eat out every once in a while? I think not.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes

Uhh, I guess you're not expecting them to review anything about your past employment? A simple background check will show that you lied. Starting off on a lie isn't a good move.

Just a white lie.

If you were applying for Wendy's I might say ok. Product Managers are largely junior executive positions, and white lies should no longer be a tactical tool within your employ.

Well, then I'm glad I'm not getting a job with or from you. 😀

🙁

😀

I was informally asked "how much do you make" and I threw out a number. Lie? No. It's how much I make. If you're divorced and you get alimony or palimony, you report that as income, correct?

NO! There is a difference. It is income to you, yes, but it does not constitute wages. When you are asked how your salary requirements, formally or informally (not sure why that matters) you are asked to report your wages. If I have a multimillion dollar inheritance from which I draw an income I don't class that as wages to a potential client or employer. Do you have these alimony payments, etc. on your W2? Let's be serious here.

Taxes? Have to report it. You say on that same note you could count income from investments as part of your income. Wrong. You wouldn't have to give up investments on a job you need to relocate for. Non issue.

Read my response above.

If I have to fill out an application that asks what my paycheck is for my current employment, I'd put down the correct answer. But instead, I'm being asked not how much I NEED to make, but how much I make. If how much I'm going to be paid is going to be how much I make, then I'm going to say "this is how much I MAKE." Nobody asked me what my current salary is.

How can you still try to rationalize this? Have you ever negotiated a job position before? This sounds like naivete to me. To suggest that an inquiry as to your present income situation is to elicit details such as alimony, investments, side income, etc. etc. is both irrational and absurd.

I don't agree with that... at all. If he had that many clients on the side that represents, in my eyes anyway, a vertical with potential growth. Why he would give up that vertical to another company for a slight bonus hasn't the same growth potential; it's limited by the capriciousness of his employers.

Neither myself nor any of my friends have been able to flourish on "potential vertical growth." Not that we haven't tried. I used to own a bicycle shop and one of my best friends used to own a computer shop. I bailed with minimum debt. My friend ended up filing bankruptcy. As for my IT friend with the client list: When you're accomodating clients AND working a full time job to "make ends meet," or at least live comfortably, you can't count on "potential vertical growth" to put food on the table. Some of us appreciate knowing that there's a paycheck coming in that's going to be at least a certain amount.

Working with clients is your vertical. The question is to whether or not it's sustainable, and determining that almost always involves some risk. That risk is much more difficult when you have liabilities as you've described. That I can understand and definitely appreciate.

All he wanted was a certain amount of pay that his employer wouldn't give him without providing the client list first, and with the full time job he couldn't invest more time to that client list to help his growth, and the client list alone would not provide enough income, at least initially, to sustain any kind of lifestyle (short of living in a car eating ramen noodles.)

I can see that. I would have to see the amount before questioning further, because acquiring a client base is both extremely important and difficult. Giving that up to another for any amount effectively neuters your vertical and only slightly increases your current situation. Again, it might be worth it... I'd have to see the amount.

Look, I don't mean to be disrespectful or at all discount your advice.

Not at all disrespectful; we're just having a convo.

Yes, solid business ethics is paramount. But please don't question one's intentions if you can't appreciate the entire scenario.

I didn't question the intentions, I questioned the actions. How you realize intentions is just important as realizing them. That's just my opinion though. If you were able to employ a little social engineering to get yourself into a better position where you admirably performed then I guess it would be hard to argue its validity.

If I was willing to accept a mere 10K more than my current salary I wouldn't even consider the job and this discussion wouldn't exist. If they were willing to just pull a number out of thin air for what a product manager is "worth" then, again, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm trying to find the happy medium, but for me to know where to start, I was hoping someone could tell me what a product manager. That's all.

Right, I hear ya. I'll get off my soapbox for now and just say...

Good luck! 😀 I do hope you get it. A lot more opportunities open up from your potential vantage point.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes

Also, $1500/mo hardly requires a six-figure income. When you approach six-figures you start making that amount in a week, and if you can't make it on that you have more problems than an expensive apartment.

I'm calling shens. 😉

$1500 per week gross would only be 72,000 per year. Even if you net $1500 that's not going to be a six figure salary.

I always think in terms of net, sorry. I said "when you start approaching...", so I wasn't referring to hard numbers. Point is that $1,500 really isn't that much, and you don't have to make $100k to afford it.

I also don't think it's unreasonable for one to appreciate netting more than 75% after the mortgage is paid each month.

I agree. I personally don't spend much than 10% of my monthly net on everything, but that's my own discipline.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Descartes

I was informally asked "how much do you make" and I threw out a number. Lie? No. It's how much I make. If you're divorced and you get alimony or palimony, you report that as income, correct?

NO! There is a difference. It is income to you, yes, but it does not constitute wages. When you are asked how your salary requirements, formally or informally (not sure why that matters) you are asked to report your wages. If I have a multimillion dollar inheritance from which I draw an income I don't class that as wages to a potential client or employer. Do you have these alimony payments, etc. on your W2? Let's be serious here.

LOL. I AM being serious. You don't report it on your W2. But inheretence, interest income, alimony, etc. you report as INCOME. But also, I wouldn't feel the need to disclose this to a new employer (in fact, I think it best NOT to) first and foremost because you wouldn't have to give ANY of these things up for a job in anohter part of the country.

I can live in Timbuktu and still draw investment income, interest income, etc. If I'm being asked to move and someone asks me what I make, what I make is NOT going to need to include incomes that I'm taking with me, but should include income that I would potentially give up in such a migration.

I don't think I'm trying to rationalize something unreasonable. If I make $12000 additional income with "odd jobs" and I move for another job and I get paid 10K more and can not continue with the "odd jobs" then I'm 2K in the hole! 😀 Maybe I'm mentally defective, but I think that the "white lie" is quite reasonable. 🙂

If I have to fill out an application that asks what my paycheck is for my current employment, I'd put down the correct answer. But instead, I'm being asked not how much I NEED to make, but how much I make. If how much I'm going to be paid is going to be how much I make, then I'm going to say "this is how much I MAKE." Nobody asked me what my current salary is.

How can you still try to rationalize this? Have you ever negotiated a job position before? This sounds like naivete to me. To suggest that an inquiry as to your present income situation is to elicit details such as alimony, investments, side income, etc. etc. is both irrational and absurd.

Have I ever negotiated a position before? No.

But back to the income: IMHO, It's DIFFERENT. Alimony, investments, etc. is not going to be affected by relocation for a job. "Side" income IS.

Good luck! 😀 I do hope you get it. A lot more opportunities open up from your potential vantage point.

Thank you! And it is great having convo with you.. seriously. 🙂 Criticism in all forms is absorbed. 😀

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Descartes
I agree. I personally don't spend much than 10% of my monthly net on everything, but that's my own discipline.

Two words for you: Wife and Kids.

Understanding that I do not know your marital status or quantity of offspring, if any. 😉

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes

I was informally asked "how much do you make" and I threw out a number. Lie? No. It's how much I make. If you're divorced and you get alimony or palimony, you report that as income, correct?

NO! There is a difference. It is income to you, yes, but it does not constitute wages. When you are asked how your salary requirements, formally or informally (not sure why that matters) you are asked to report your wages. If I have a multimillion dollar inheritance from which I draw an income I don't class that as wages to a potential client or employer. Do you have these alimony payments, etc. on your W2? Let's be serious here.

LOL. I AM being serious. You don't report it on your W2. But inheretence, interest income, alimony, etc. you report as INCOME. But also, I wouldn't feel the need to disclose this to a new employer (in fact, I think it best NOT to) first and foremost because you wouldn't have to give ANY of these things up for a job in anohter part of the country.

I can live in Timbuktu and still draw investment income, interest income, etc. If I'm being asked to move and someone asks me what I make, what I make is NOT going to need to include incomes that I'm taking with me, but should include income that I would potentially give up in such a migration.

Nope! More on this in a moment...

I don't think I'm trying to rationalize something unreasonable. If I make $12000 additional income with "odd jobs" and I move for another job and I get paid 10K more and can not continue with the "odd jobs" then I'm 2K in the hole! 😀 Maybe I'm mentally defective, but I think that the "white lie" is quite reasonable. 🙂

I don't disagree that you have a financial liability in this case and that you'd need to find a means to satisfy it; however, I very strongly do disagree with the suggestion that your side income should somehow influence your requirements as an employee for another company. To me that would be like suggesting that if you worked two jobs as a fast food worker that you're twice as valuable. Your wages in addition to that which the company pays you add no value to the company in question, and so your value should NOT take that into account. This is quite reasonable, because this is what people expect.

Your location has nothing to do with it... nothing. It is your liability and not that of the company. That's the only thing to consider here. If you worked for me I'd pay you what you're worth, and not twice that amount just because you happened to have a few clients on the side at your primary location. Think about that for a moment...

[edit]Took out the word "ridiculous" as it was a little too inflammatory 😀[/edit]

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Descartes
I agree. I personally don't spend much than 10% of my monthly net on everything, but that's my own discipline.

Two words for you: Wife and Kids.

Understanding that I do not know your marital status or quantity of offspring, if any. 😉

Tru dat. I'm single and without human progeny, and that's why I choose to live so parsimoniously now. By putting financial responsibility at the forefront I can insure that my [potential] family will be accommodated later. I also don't want to have to work until I'm 59.5.