How much extra in taxes would you pay to eliminate poverty?

[glenn1]

Not a legit question. Poverty is too subjective a term. America HAS eliminated starvation and is on the way to universal health care.

A great step towards more equitable income distribution would be to limit CEO salaries by law to 30 times the average salary of their employees.... that was the distribution in the 50s/60s when unions made this country great.

Why do that when we can just offshore all the low-wage employees instead? Even if you did get this passed, all the industries with scads of low-wage employees would reorganize to corporate structure so that only a small core of higher paid employees were left, with the rank and file put into an independent subsidiary. Think of a bank holding company arrangement, but for fast food workers with the execs in the "real" company and everyone else dumped off. The idea that you'd get top-tier executive C-suite talent at salaries in the very low 6 figures is fucking laughable and only a moron would suggest it.

 

[unokitty]

Little Bang for the Anti-Poverty Program Buck

The federal government currently operates 122 different anti-poverty programs, ranging from Medicaid to the tiny Even Start Program for Indian Tribes and Tribal Organizations. All together, the federal government spent more than $591 billion in 2009 on means-tested or anti-poverty programs, and will undoubtedly spend even more this year. That amounts to $14,849 for every poor man, woman and child in America. Given that the poverty line is just $10,830, we could have mailed every poor person in America a check big enough to lift them out of poverty – and still saved money.

Since we started the War on Poverty in 1965, the federal government alone has spent more than $13 trillion fighting poverty. Including state and local government brings total anti-poverty spending over $15 trillion. Clearly we have received very little bang for the buck. Throwing money at the problem has neither reduced poverty nor made the poor self-sufficient.

War on Poverty?
War on Drugs?
War on Terror?
War on Whatever?

If you like paying for your government's wars, you can keep paying for your government’s wars.

Uno

 

[fskimospy]

Little Bang for the Anti-Poverty Program Buck

War on Poverty?
War on Drugs?
War on Terror?
War on Whatever?

If you like paying for your government's wars, you can keep paying for your government’s wars.

Uno

That's an awesomely dumb or an awesomely dishonest piece there. He's doing the same thing that Paul Ryan tried and what someone else tried earlier in this thread. (to be fair they both probably got it from Cato)

He's trying to say "look at all this money we spent! It hasn't reduced poverty so long as you don't count any of the money we spend towards your calculation of who is in poverty."

Don't you guys get tired of being duped?

 

[desy]

My tax burden is already enough to eliminate poverty.
How its allocated is why it persists if I define poverty as food, clothing, and shelter
How much has been spent on the military since 1965?

 

[realibrad]

That's an awesomely dumb or an awesomely dishonest piece there. He's doing the same thing that Paul Ryan tried and what someone else tried earlier in this thread. (to be fair they both probably got it from Cato)

He's trying to say "look at all this money we spent! It hasn't reduced poverty so long as you don't count any of the money we spend towards your calculation of who is in poverty."

Don't you guys get tired of being duped?

What policy has reduce poverty?

 

[Angry Irishman]

Not a legit question. Poverty is too subjective a term. America HAS eliminated starvation and is on the way to universal health care.

A great step towards more equitable income distribution would be to limit CEO salaries by law to 30 times the average salary of their employees.... that was the distribution in the 50s/60s when unions made this country great.

While we are at it lets just let the government mandate when piss breaks can take place. Hell, let's just turn all this nations corporations over to a collective government owned system. Be sure to include any private business as well...big and small. Those evil corporations providing jobs and stuff...the nerve! Yes comrade, that's the ticket right there.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

While we are at it lets just let the government mandate when piss breaks can take place. Hell, let's just turn all this nations corporations over to a collective government owned system. Be sure to include any private business as well...big and small. Those evil corporations providing jobs and stuff...the nerve! Yes comrade, that's the ticket right there.

Its working wonderfully in Venezuela. What could go wrong right? /tongue-in-cheek lol

 

[IGBT]

allow abortion clinics to open up at every liquor store and you'll solve the problem.

 

[trenchfoot]

A poll that should be asked of the very rich and well to do that have wealth in excess of what they could ever spend in their lifetimes due to the upward redistribution of wealth that the very rich have acquired from the class warfare they've waged/are waging against the middle class and the poor.

Asking this of the average working person is like asking them how much food, clothing, portion of the children's college fund, portion of the mortgage and the quality of daily transportation they are willing to sacrifice to eliminate poverty. The average working stiff have no disposable income to help fight poverty via tax hikes other than what can be spent/taken as tax deductibles/write-offs.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nice pics, Earl. I've wanted a horse since I was a kid- it used to piss me off that cars were invented so I couldn't just have one as basic transportation. Maybe someday! Looks like some pretty pristine country where you live.

You have my respect and best wishes dealing with cancer, I wouldn't wish that burden on anyone.

Looks like you keep busy! My life is infinitely more boring by comparison, but I like it that way. For example, much of yesterday was all about my son's preschool Christmas play. Cuteness overload, basically.

Nice post Zaap. You make me happy. I like Earl and I was sure you would too.

 

[JimmiG]

For the sake of the thought experiment, imagine that you've somehow been able to create a forcefield at your borders that has brought illegal immigration down to nearly zero. So we're talking about legal immigrants and citizens only.

What would you be willing to pay in additional taxes to fully eliminate poverty in your country?

The problem is that immigration (illegal or legal) makes it impossible to eliminate poverty. With a constant influx of poor, unskilled, uneducated people it's impossible to provide jobs and education for everyone. Over time, fewer and fewer skilled, educated citizens have to support more and more unskilled immigrants. Eventually you reach the point where even 100% taxes for those that do work doesn't generate enough money to support those that don't.

Poverty was eliminated in Sweden thanks to ~50% taxes. We still have those 50% taxes (among the highest in the world), but poverty is now increasing because we have opened the borders to third-world countries like Syria and Romania.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Nice pics, Earl. I've wanted a horse since I was a kid- it used to piss me off that cars were invented so I couldn't just have one as basic transportation. Maybe someday! Looks like some pretty pristine country where you live.

You have my respect and best wishes dealing with cancer, I wouldn't wish that burden on anyone.

Looks like you keep busy! My life is infinitely more boring by comparison, but I like it that way. For example, much of yesterday was all about my son's preschool Christmas play. Cuteness overload, basically.

After I see peeps pics from here, they become more real to me. I dunno I can make more of a connection with that person
Angry Irishman once posted about being on his way to a major league baseball game and I asked him to post pics after. He did it, and ever since no matter what he posts (within reason of course 😉 ) I always think "Meh, that guy is ok" 😉

Have yourself and yours a Merry Little Christmas

 

[Matt1970]

Not a legit question. Poverty is too subjective a term. America HAS eliminated starvation and is on the way to universal health care.

A great step towards more equitable income distribution would be to limit CEO salaries by law to 30 times the average salary of their employees.... that was the distribution in the 50s/60s when unions made this country great.

While we are at it lets just let the government mandate when piss breaks can take place. Hell, let's just turn all this nations corporations over to a collective government owned system. Be sure to include any private business as well...big and small. Those evil corporations providing jobs and stuff...the nerve! Yes comrade, that's the ticket right there.

bshole only wants more equitable income distribution as long as it doesn't touch his salary. True and even income redistribution would cut his salary by 75% and he would surely be singing a different tune at that point.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Nice post Zaap. You make me happy. I like Earl and I was sure you would too.

Ty and "back at you" Moon 🙂

 

[NesuD]

Not a single cent. Been tried before In the 60s and failed. Look up The great society.

 

[Orignal Earl]

After I see peeps pics from here, they become more real to me. I dunno I can make more of a connection with that person
Angry Irishman once posted about being on his way to a major league baseball game and I asked him to post pics after. He did it, and ever since no matter what he posts (within reason of course 😉 ) I always think "Meh, that guy is ok" 😉

Have yourself and yours a Merry Little Christmas

I do believe I should of said irishScott instead of the angry Irishman.
Sorry Scott 🙂

 

[unokitty]

Don't know about raising taxes to eliminate poverty.

From my perspective a better question would be "Why is wealth being redistributed away from the middle class?"

Uno

 

[bshole]

Don't know about raising taxes to eliminate poverty.

From my perspective a better question would be "Why is wealth being redistributed away from the middle class?"

Uno

The answer is simple: CONSERVATIVES. Under Ronald Reagan, conservatives started a war on the middle class and have never relented. They have pretty much murdered it. Oddly, even after winning, they still feel the need to demonize the American worker (while slobbering all over the bunghole of the America elite class).

 

[unokitty]

The answer is simple: CONSERVATIVES. Under Ronald Reagan, conservatives started a war on the middle class and have never relented. They have pretty much murdered it. Oddly, even after winning, they still feel the need to demonize the American worker (while slobbering all over the bunghole of the America elite class).

If you look at the posted graphics, you can see that the trend continues under Obama.

Change from Republican to Democratic administration.

No change from wealth being redistributed away from the middle class.

While you are free to blame whoever, Elizabeth Warren has a different perspective.

Elizabeth Warren: Obama ‘protected Wall Street’ over middle class families

Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren has given a damning review of President Obama’s record fighting Wall Street, accusing him and his economic team of standing behind financial giants at the expense of middle class Americans.

“[The president] picked his economic team and when the going got tough, his economic team picked Wall Street,” she said in an interview published Sunday by Salon. “They protected Wall Street. Not families who were losing their homes. Not people who lost their jobs. Not young people who were struggling to get an education. And it happened over and over and over.”

Uno

 

[trenchfoot]

If you look at the posted graphics, you can see that the trend continues under Obama.

Change from Republican to Democratic administration.

No change from wealth being redistributed away from the middle class.

While you are free to blame past presidents, Elizabeth Warren has a different perspective.

Elizabeth Warren: Obama ‘protected Wall Street’ over middle class families
Uno

Politics, usually being a game of give and take, would lead me to believe that Obama got something(s) back in return for how he deals with Wall Street. Also, Wall Street, being the myopically profit driven creature, is devoid of compassion and emotion to appeal to and only looks at the middle class and the poor as objects of opportunistic exploitation. Therefore, to bargain with Wall Street, the only bargaining chip our gov't can throw on the table is one that affects Wall Street's myopia for profits via regulatory policies that restrict their predatory practices and wont to be totally free to do anything it desires to feed its insatiable desire for riches, along with the opposition party's desire to give Wall Street exactly that.

Under these circumstances, I can't see how Obama can realistically get much from Wall Street as the "game" is totally stacked against him and the party he represents. That he gets anything at all in dealing with Wall Street would, IMO, be a major feat worth patting him on the back for.

(crap, gotta go back to work, i'll finish this post later if I can.)

 

[glenn1]

The answer is simple: CONSERVATIVES. Under Ronald Reagan, conservatives started a war on the middle class and have never relented. They have pretty much murdered it. Oddly, even after winning, they still feel the need to demonize the American worker (while slobbering all over the bunghole of the America elite class).

What's stopping your state or city from passing the confiscatory taxes that you say you want? Democrats have supermajorities in most big cities in this country and the bigger progressive States. Why do you need to wait for the rest of the flyover America to raise our taxes along with you rather than just raising taxes on yourselves?

 

[MagickMan]

Poverty exist because of the greedy rich who exploit those less fortunate. We need to tax the greedy rich more and share the wealth that belongs to all of society.

Spoken like someone who can't understand wealth. If your bucket has a big hole in it, how much water can it hold? That's the reality for 95% of people in the world, they can't build wealth because they can't control their spending.

Threads like this are an interesting insight into just how extreme American conservatism has become. I'm not aware of an equivalent movement anywhere else in the developed world.

These little nuggets just poop right out of you like rabbit pellets, don't they? 😵

There's nothing "extreme" about pointing out that wealth redistribution doesn't work.

 

[MagickMan]

The majority of the nation feels that government can do a better job of that than you. You are in the minority with those thoughts and there may come a time when you will have to keep those thoughts to yourself.

No they don't, piss off.

 

[bshole]

What's stopping your state or city from passing the confiscatory taxes that you say you want?

The Koch Brothers.... everybody knows that.

 

[glenn1]

The Koch Brothers.... everybody knows that.

Yes I know the whole point is the Koch Brothers are who you're trying to take the money from. But the point still stands, why are the tax rates so low for bshole and his ilk? You can set the example for the Koch Brothers and those in other states, why aren't you?