How much extra in taxes would you pay to eliminate poverty?

[bshole]

Yes I know the whole point is the Koch Brothers are who you're trying to take the money from. But the point still stands, why are the tax rates so low for bshole and his ilk? You can set the example for the Koch Brothers and those in other states, why aren't you?

The Koch Brothers have entities that PREVENT any legislation which raises taxes on the wealthy. These entities exist on the federal, state and local levels. This is certainly no secret. It is an impossibility to raise taxes on the wealthy, they will never allow it to happen. They own the entire political system.

 

[unokitty]

The Koch Brothers have entities that PREVENT any legislation which raises taxes on the wealthy. These entities exist on the federal, state and local levels. This is certainly no secret. It is an impossibility to raise taxes on the wealthy, they will never allow it to happen. They own the entire political system.

While I never thought of it that way, that could explain why Obama recently said:

...and middle-class and working-class families are stuck. Their wages and incomes are stagnant. They’ve been stagnant for almost two decades now.

Still, redistributing middle class wealth to the poor doesn't seem like a solution to poverty.

Though, it could explain why, under Obama, the middle class continues to shrink.

Uno

 

[boomerang]

0%. I'm Taxed Enough Already.

 

[fskimospy]

While I never thought of it that way, that could explain why Obama recently said:

Still, redistributing middle class wealth to the poor doesn't seem like a solution to poverty.

Though, it could explain why, under Obama, the middle class continues to shrink.

Uno

Federal taxes on the middle class under Obama are lower than they have been since at least 1979, which is the earliest date recorded for overall burden.

Are you saying he should raise tax rates on the middle class to get them back up to Reagan levels?

 

[BoberFett]

The Koch Brothers have entities that PREVENT any legislation which raises taxes on the wealthy. These entities exist on the federal, state and local levels. This is certainly no secret. It is an impossibility to raise taxes on the wealthy, they will never allow it to happen. They own the entire political system.

LMFAO, you're a special kind of stupid.

 

[bshole]

LMFAO, you're a special kind of stupid.

Am I UNIQUELY stupid or just uncommonly stupid? I would like to think my idiocy is one of a kind rather than run of the mill.

In any event, thank for your comments. For some reason it makes me happy knowing that you are reading my posts. We really should hook up over Christmas break. I may be going to the Minneapolis Wild game, I think it would be blast to attend with you.... (unless you are a nerd or ugly) we could try that whole wife swap thing... Lemme know bro!

 

[BoberFett]

Am I UNIQUELY stupid or just uncommonly stupid? I would like to think my idiocy is one of a kind rather than run of the mill.

In any event, thank for your comments. For some reason it makes me happy knowing that you are reading my posts. We really should hook up over Christmas break. I may be going to the Minneapolis Wild game, I think it would be blast to attend with you.... (unless you are a nerd or ugly) we could try that whole wife swap thing... Lemme know bro!

No can do, I'll be attending the end of year Koch Brothers ritualistic infant sacrifice to the nether gods. Gotta keep those taxes down doncha know.

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

And still we have no answers from the liberal peanut gallery on how to decrease poverty -- other than from the uniquely/uncommonly stupid one (his words), who mandates that we simply give people something for nothing.

Which is primarily where the problems begin in the first place. But then again, what do you expect from people that have such low personal standards?

 

[MustISO]

0%
stop having so many damn kids and then asking for the government to help.

 

[werepossum]

Am I UNIQUELY stupid or just uncommonly stupid? I would like to think my idiocy is one of a kind rather than run of the mill.

In any event, thank for your comments. For some reason it makes me happy knowing that you are reading my posts. We really should hook up over Christmas break. I may be going to the Minneapolis Wild game, I think it would be blast to attend with you.... (unless you are a nerd or ugly) we could try that whole wife swap thing... Lemme know bro!

No can do, I'll be attending the end of year Koch Brothers ritualistic infant sacrifice to the nether gods. Gotta keep those taxes down doncha know.

Maybe it's being at the tail end of 33 more or less straight work hours but this exchange is the most entertaining thing I've seen on the Net in awhile. I love both you guys.

Um, not in a creepy wife swappy kinda way though. More like a semi-anonymous Internet lurker mancrush.

I think I voted 20% (not sure of much of anything right now) but I honestly can't imagine what would convince me that higher taxes would eliminate poverty. Other than the Marxist thing of making it common to everyone except the ruling elite anyway, and that's not something one votes for.

 

[yllus]

Interesting poll results. I think more than anything this speaks to Americans simply no longer believing that government works (and to a lesser extent that the poor are beyond help).

I voted 20% myself. I wouldn't mind better protections for my fellow citizens, and hopefully distributed in a more sane matter than the patchwork mess that is welfare is most countries including my own.

 

[TheSlamma]

Interesting poll results. I think more than anything this speaks to Americans simply no longer believing that government works (and to a lesser extent that the poor are beyond help).

I voted 20% myself. I wouldn't mind better protections for my fellow citizens, and hopefully distributed in a more sane matter than the patchwork mess that is welfare is most countries including my own.

You are free to give your 20% to a charity that helps out the homeless.. but let me guess.. you are only willing to if everyone else bends over and gets fvcked along side you?

 

[yllus]

You are free to give your 20% to a charity that helps out the homeless.. but let me guess.. you are only willing to if everyone else bends over and gets fvcked along side you?

It's the difference between declaring war in Germany myself in 1939 and lobbying to try to send the Canadian army to fight the Germans. Yeah, maybe i can help a little, but collective action is needed to effect real change.

 

[gevorg]

 

[TheSlamma]

It's the difference between declaring war in Germany myself in 1939 and lobbying to try to send the Canadian army to fight the Germans. Yeah, maybe i can help a little, but collective action is needed to effect real change.

So what you are saying is, no you won't be giving anything until everyone else does.

Don't worry, most bleeding hearts are the same way, scream out moral high ground and take zero action. 20% would also put millions of lower middle class below the poverty line. If you think your laughable government would take your money and redistribute it to your poor I know a guy here who has a bridge to sell you.

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

Interesting poll results. I think more than anything this speaks to Americans simply no longer believing that government works

Thats pretty much it in a nutshell, for a variety of reasons.

(and to a lesser extent that the poor are beyond help).

Not at all. We just disagree on the methods. Progressives insist on giving excuses as to why the poor are poor, and not holding them responsible for their actions. The progressives insist on giving the poor something for nothing and enslaving them in that never-ending cycle of free handouts, rather than teaching them what they need to know, and motivating them to be able to contribute to society, as well as giving them the tools they need to do so. To enable them to get out on their own, and to feel worthy.

I believe in helping the needy. I do so quite often. We just disagree on the methods and endgames. I also strongly disagree with coercing or forcing others to involuntarily give their money to the government to be spent/wasted on bureaucratic boondoggles that simply do not work.

I voted 20% myself. I wouldn't mind better protections for my fellow citizens, and hopefully distributed in a more sane matter than the patchwork mess that is welfare is most countries including my own.

Hope all you want. History shows that depending on the government to help the poor just simply enslaves them, and does so quite inefficiently financially speaking. Certainly you can find short-term instances where government has come to save the day. But when you look at the historical big picture, then you simply find out that we've been duped.

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

 

[unokitty]

Interesting poll results. I think more than anything this speaks to Americans simply no longer believing that government works (and to a lesser extent that the poor are beyond help)...

Might I suggest that you are partially correct? That is, that whether or not you believe that the government works for you might depend on your economic class.

Clearly, if you are upper income, the economy does work for you.

At the same time, if you are poor, or middle class, the economy doesn't work for you.

If fact, under Obama the gap between the classes has become the largest ever recorded. Note that Obama didn't start this trend... Note also that this trend is common to both Democratic and Republican party administrations...

Uno


America’s wealth gap between middle-income and upper-income families is widest on record

A new Pew Research Center analysis of wealth finds the gap between America’s upper-income and middle-income families has reached its highest level on record. In 2013, the median wealth of the nation’s upper-income families ($639,400) was nearly seven times the median wealth of middle-income families ($96,500), the widest wealth gap seen in 30 years when the Federal Reserve began collecting these data.

In addition, America’s upper-income families have a median net worth that is nearly 70 times that of the country’s lower-income families, also the widest wealth gap between these families in 30 years...

... the estimated wealth gap between upper-income and middle-income families has increased during the recovery. In 2010, the median wealth of upper-income families was 6.2 times the median wealth of middle-income families. By 2013, that wealth ratio grew to 6.6.

While most American families remain financially stuck, upper-income families have seen their median wealth double from $318,100 in 1983 to $639,400 in 2013. The typical wealth level of these families increased each decade over the past 30 years.

 

[schmuckley]

You can't eliminate poverty via taxation. It does not work. You just get fat cats in Washington doing that.

How about instead of looking at the government as the "savior" go help a poor person directly instead.

Hey you know what? This IS the solution! :thumbsup:

You know what? Give them a decent job,even!
..Something they can do that makes decent money.

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

Might I suggest that you are partially correct? That is, that whether or not you believe that the government works for you depends on your economic class.

Clearly, if you are upper income, the economy does work for you.

At the same time, if you are poor, or middle class, the economy doesn't work for you.

Bullshit. You just have to be smart about it. It takes effort. There is little reason why anyone of sufficient intelligence cannot make a better than decent living in this economy.
But it takes work. It takes effort. It takes patience. And it takes planning.

A good part of the time, people end up in the low end of the economic ladder not because they weren't capable, but because they made dumb choices or were simply lazy and unfocused. That may seem harsh, but it is the truth.

There are plenty of examples where people from poor environments have broken out and become successful. There are examples where down-in-their-luck homeless people have picked themselves up and have become the success that others envy.
Any place you find the poor and needy in this country, you can also likely find people who have achieved their dreams from the same starting point.

Its not that the economy doesn't work for them. They just don't do the work required to become successful.
A lot of people much worse off in much worse economies have done much better for themselves. And it wasn't luck or magic that did it. And they weren't smarter than the rest of us.

So quit the pity party. No ones listening.

If fact, under Obama the gap between the classes has become to the largest ever recorded. Note that Obama didn't start this trend... Note also that this trend is common to both Democratic and Republican party administrations...

Because people are no longer self-sufficient. More and more people depend on the government to give them "fairness" and free handouts.

More and more people are victims that expect entitlements. They expect something for nothing. They think that the only "fair" option is to take what the rich have earned and give it to the poor who have not.
And then they wonder why they are poor and angry at the rich. They believe the lie that this is a zero-sum game, that for the rich to win, the poor have to lose. Which is complete nonsense.

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

Hey you know what? This IS the solution! :thumbsup:

You know what? Give them a decent job,even!
..Something they can do that makes decent money.

I have given numerous people this opportunity. Some have taken that opportunity and eventually flourished, while a great number of people did not. But I have certainly done my part.
I have hired people (or have arranged for them to work for small companies that I invest in) that were living in their cars, or sometimes worse. They are given a fair chance to earn a way out. Again, some take it, some waste it. Such is the way of things.

I do what I can to give them a proper start (sometimes even a small loan to give them a boost). But they are expected to earn it though hard but fair work, and clean themselves up.

I enjoy doing this for people, even though more often than not my generosity is eventually wasted. It is well worth it for those who do take advantage of the chance to make something of themselves.
Believe it or not, there are people who can pick up their lives if given the opportunity and the motivation. They aren't asking for a handout. Most of the time they just need someone to show them that they can indeed do it. And then get out the way while they do so.

For those that waste the opportunity, I fear nothing can help them. Laziness is sometimes incurable.

 

[finglobes]

The "noble poor" like in Jesus day hardly exist in America. Back then people were skinny and needed food. Now obesity is used as a way of measuring "poverty". Many in America are poor because they lead debauched lifestyles. They go drinking, drugging, cruising around town impregnating their neighbors daughters (70+ illegitimacy rate) and not working. I grew up in a town like that. The day the checks come out all the bars and Dunkin Donuts are full (often with fatties)

 

[Matt1970]

I will keep posting this every time it is relevant. Wages started declining in the 70's. Pick what you want to blame it on but from 1970 and on we have consistently had trade deficits. We were warned.

 

[OverVolt]

Paying extra in taxes would not solve poverty. As a matter of fact I think there will always be some level of poverty in society. The whole premise just tells me you don't know jack shit about how the world works. Please don't vote.

Opportunity is what helps people out of poverty not higher taxes. Capitalism is still the best means to get there (as oppose to this current shit show we have going on, whatever it is).

 

[boomerang]

Time for this again.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.