how much do 'values' matter when you can't eat?

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: X-Man
Not to generalize, but why is it that all the people I see at the grocery store who pay with WIC or food stamps are generally overweight?

The poor people in this country live like kings compared to the poor around the world.

That's another interesting point. "Poverty" in our country may mean something different from what it means in other parts of the world.

Someone who is classified as living in poverty here probably has a TV, running water, a telephone, and maybe a car. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out if this is true. 11.2% of households live in poverty; Do more than 88.8% of households have some of these things?

I have relatives overseas who are doing very well financially relative to their surroundings and yet have none of those things.

 

[IGBT]

...so when di having a family become a financial decision?? I thought you have all those kids cause it feels good and it's the next thang to do..

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: X-Man

The poor people in this country live like kings compared to the poor around the world.

I sincerely hope you get the chance someday to live like such a king.

I was born into such a "kingly" life (Yup...food stamps, secondhand clothes, and a one-room apartment for the three of us in Oakland's Lake Merritt district). But my parents worked hard and I worked hard (had to settle for public schools all the way through college) , and we all turned out okay.

[Edit] Wait, scratch the food stamps. My parents didn't understand the system or didn't qualify for some reason so we couldn't get food stamps...and no, they weren't here illegaly

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: X-Man

The poor people in this country live like kings compared to the poor around the world.

I sincerely hope you get the chance someday to live like such a king.

I was born into such a "kingly" life (Yup...food stamps and secondhand clothes). But my parents worked hard and I worked hard, and we all turned out okay.

And that's why this is a great country - because if you work hard enough, you have an opportunity to raise your social standing in life. :thumbsup:

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Aelius
Some of you are outright dumb. I have lived on the poverty line before and it's not fun when you can't afford to take the bus to get to work and have to fvcking walk 40min to your first job, 40min to your second job and 1h 15min back home in -45 degree C weather. It's not necessarily by choice.

You want to generalize and view everyone on the poverty level or bellow as some sort of lazy scum then let me ask you this. When are you going to hear the pop? You know. The sound of your head coming out of your ass.

*Lazily recounts the story of his parents driving along in their old beater, with all their worldly possessions in the trunk, stopping every few miles to put ditch water in the leaky radiator.*

*Half-ass describes the 2 bedroom, asphalt shack we lived in until I four.*

*Casually mentions the fire on December 28th that burned down his house and destroyed all the meager Christmas presents that year.*

See, a *lot* of us can relate these sad sob stories about how hard it was for our family or us. We're not *all" a bunch of rich-born elitists, as some of you would like to label us for convenience's sake. It's not the hand you're dealt in life, you see, it's how you play it.

There is a reason for the clichéd saying of "When life gives you lemons?" and other such "feel-good" pop - because they are often true. We all have the ability to improve our lives; it's just a matter of how hard we are willing to try. That may often be over-simplified down to "Poor people are lazy," which is not necessarily true, but is a valid opinion and a launching point for discourse of the subject.

 

[amol]

the poor in this country have it better that those in my native country, india

as another person said, they live like kings compared to other countries

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: X-Man

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: X-Man

The poor people in this country live like kings compared to the poor around the world.

I sincerely hope you get the chance someday to live like such a king.

I was born into such a "kingly" life (Yup...food stamps and secondhand clothes). But my parents worked hard and I worked hard, and we all turned out okay.

And that's why this is a great country - because if you work hard enough, you have an opportunity to raise your social standing in life. :thumbsup:

This I agree with 100%.

However there are those who sabotage such chances out of ignorance. My college comes to mind. Bunch of morons.

To put it into perspective I was in the top 2% of my class in the 2nd program I took yet I don't have a diploma. Nuff said.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Amol
the poor in this country have it better that those in my native country, india

as another person said, they live like kings compared to other countries

This is most certainly true but the cost of living in India isn't the same as that of the US or Canada. You can still be without food sometimes even if you do all you can to put food on the table.

It happens like it or not.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: X-Man

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: X-Man

The poor people in this country live like kings compared to the poor around the world.

I sincerely hope you get the chance someday to live like such a king.

I was born into such a "kingly" life (Yup...food stamps and secondhand clothes). But my parents worked hard and I worked hard, and we all turned out okay.

And that's why this is a great country - because if you work hard enough, you have an opportunity to raise your social standing in life. :thumbsup:

Well...I like to think our hard work would have brought good things in Canada, the UK, or most industrialized countries.

Still, you could argue that the USA started the whole idea and to think I could go to a high school as good as mine was for free, or a college as good as Berkeley was for just $4k a year...that's the incredible part :thumbsup:

 

[amol]

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Amol
the poor in this country have it better that those in my native country, india

as another person said, they live like kings compared to other countries

This is most certainly true but the cost of living in India isn't the same as that of the US or Canada. You can still be without food sometimes even if you do all you can to put food on the table.

It happens like it or not.

well, you know what, i really think now that jobs and manufacturing heading across the pacific to china and india, the united states standard of living is going to really have to go down! i'm glad i speak 2 indian languages; maybe i can get a job or own a company in india!

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Aelius
Some of you are outright dumb. I have lived on the poverty line before and it's not fun when you can't afford to take the bus to get to work and have to fvcking walk 40min to your first job, 40min to your second job and 1h 15min back home in -45 degree C weather. It's not necessarily by choice.

You want to generalize and view everyone on the poverty level or bellow as some sort of lazy scum then let me ask you this. When are you going to hear the pop? You know. The sound of your head coming out of your ass.

*Lazily recounts the story of his parents driving along in their old beater, with all their worldly possessions in the trunk, stopping every few miles to put ditch water in the leaky radiator.*

*Half-ass describes the 2 bedroom, asphalt shack we lived in until I four.*

*Casually mentions the fire on December 28th that burned down his house and destroyed all the meager Christmas presents that year.*

See, a *lot* of us can relate these sad sob stories about how hard it was for our family or us. We're not *all" a bunch of rich-born elitists, as some of you would like to label us for convenience's sake. It's not the hand you're dealt in life, you see, it's how you play it.

There is a reason for the clichéd saying of "When life gives you lemons?" and other such "feel-good" pop - because they are often true. We all have the ability to improve our lives; it's just a matter of how hard we are willing to try. That may often be over-simplified down to "Poor people are lazy," which is not necessarily true, but is a valid opinion and a launching point for discourse of the subject.

If you over generalize and stick to it you deserve to be called out on it. Someone might have fought tooth and nail to get out of the gheto but they can still be an idiot.

Some just can't help it.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Aelius

If you over generalize and stick to it you deserve to be called out on it. Someone might have fought tooth and nail to get out of the gheto but they can still be an idiot.

Some just can't help it.

I'll not deny that some people are the victim of insurmountable odds and circumstances, but I don't think we can shoehorn every single "poor" person into that category, now can we? Too many people like to play the victim because it?s the easy thing to do. If the poverty level is currently at 11.2% and we divert funds to seeking out and helping those unfortunate people who have tried their very best and failed, it think we may lower that rate to about 11.1%. Doesn?t sound like a sound investment to me.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Aelius

If you over generalize and stick to it you deserve to be called out on it. Someone might have fought tooth and nail to get out of the gheto but they can still be an idiot.

Some just can't help it.

I'll not deny that some people are the victim of insurmountable odds and circumstances, but I don't think we can shoehorn every single "poor" person into that category, now can we? Too many people like to play the victim because it?s the easy thing to do. If the poverty level is currently at 11.2% and we divert funds to seeking out and helping those unfortunate people who have tried their very best and failed, it think we may lower that rate to about 11.1%. Doesn?t sound like a sound investment to me.

I agree to a point. You can't simply assume everyone is poor and it's out of their hands.

I think the right way of thinking is to create a climate where you allow people to help themselves. This isn't easy and it would require a massive overhaul of the education system, welfare system, tax system etc etc etc.

It would require a whole nation to start moving in a completely different direction. It's one of the primary plans found in the Libertarian Party platform and I agree with it 100%.

Sadly it would not be to the benefit of special interest groups or business since they would no longer get money and political clout for nothing.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Aelius

If you over generalize and stick to it you deserve to be called out on it. Someone might have fought tooth and nail to get out of the gheto but they can still be an idiot.

Some just can't help it.

I'll not deny that some people are the victim of insurmountable odds and circumstances, but I don't think we can shoehorn every single "poor" person into that category, now can we? Too many people like to play the victim because it?s the easy thing to do. If the poverty level is currently at 11.2% and we divert funds to seeking out and helping those unfortunate people who have tried their very best and failed, it think we may lower that rate to about 11.1%. Doesn?t sound like a sound investment to me.

I agree to a point. You can't simply assume everyone is poor and it's out of their hands.

I think the right way of thinking is to create a climate where you allow people to help themselves. This isn't easy and it would require a massive overhaul of the education system, welfare system, tax system etc etc etc.

It would require a whole nation to start moving in a completely different direction. It's one of the primary plans found in the Libertarian Party platform and I agree with it 100%.

Sadly it would not be to the benefit of special interest groups or business since they would no longer get money and political clout for nothing.

EXACTLY! So you agree that it's not a matter of simply raising minimum wage to $8/hour?

 

[judasmachine]

Values barely ever matter to me. Beyond murder and rape of coarse. But I'll steal and lie to get what I need.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Aelius

If you over generalize and stick to it you deserve to be called out on it. Someone might have fought tooth and nail to get out of the gheto but they can still be an idiot.

Some just can't help it.

I'll not deny that some people are the victim of insurmountable odds and circumstances, but I don't think we can shoehorn every single "poor" person into that category, now can we? Too many people like to play the victim because it?s the easy thing to do. If the poverty level is currently at 11.2% and we divert funds to seeking out and helping those unfortunate people who have tried their very best and failed, it think we may lower that rate to about 11.1%. Doesn?t sound like a sound investment to me.

I agree to a point. You can't simply assume everyone is poor and it's out of their hands.

I think the right way of thinking is to create a climate where you allow people to help themselves. This isn't easy and it would require a massive overhaul of the education system, welfare system, tax system etc etc etc.

It would require a whole nation to start moving in a completely different direction. It's one of the primary plans found in the Libertarian Party platform and I agree with it 100%.

Sadly it would not be to the benefit of special interest groups or business since they would no longer get money and political clout for nothing.

EXACTLY! So you agree that it's not a matter of simply raising minimum wage to $8/hour?

Raising minimum wage is stupid. Not because it would help out the poor and drive costs up (business allways pass' costs to customers when possible) but instead it's stupid because it continues the cycle without actually resolving this problem.

There's a way to resolve this problem and raising the minumum wage is like trying to put a band-aid on a severed leg. You wouldn't really accomplish anything in the end.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Values barely ever matter to me. Beyond murder and rape of coarse. But I'll steal and lie to get what I need.

Cool. I guess we have different values then. I chose to work hard through legal means to get what I needed

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JacobJ

but the bottom line is that something is seriously wrong when 12 millions households struggle to eat in the United States of America.

Where have you been? That's the New Proud FLL United States of America.

Either you are with us (Fat Rich and Happy) or against us (Poor SOB's struggling to serve the FLL's).

Enjoy

Are you always such a generalizing ass?

Why yes, again, where have you've been???

 

[earthman]

Let's continue to perpetuate the myth that there is no poverty in America. Wouldn't want to make us look bad, would you?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: X-Man
because if you work hard enough, you have an opportunity to raise your social standing in life.

That used to be the case the majority of the time, sadly that is now the exception rather than the rule.

 

[AntiEverything]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: X-Man
because if you work hard enough, you have an opportunity to raise your social standing in life.

That used to be the case the majority of the time, sadly that is now the exception rather than the rule.

Why? Because you're a tard and got yourself fired?

Anybody can improve their standard of living in this country if they want to. Problem is that most people expect it to happen without any effort.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Values barely ever matter to me. Beyond murder and rape of coarse. But I'll steal and lie to get what I need.

Cool. I guess we have different values then. I chose to work hard through legal means to get what I needed

I meant when I was down and out. Now I can provide for myself without any real problem. I've lived on the streets all the way to running my own business, and a house. My business is completely honest, and I try to be. However I remember what it was when I lived on the streets, and it wasn't pretty. Even when I just lived in an apartment and worked for WallyWorld it was hard to make ends meet, and I lied and stole to get the few things I needed. I never stole for entertainment's sake, I never lied to get ahead. I don't feel any great nationalistic sense of values though. I personally don't like abortion but you will never see me vote against it, or picket the doctors and women that do it. There are grey areas to every issue and the rules do bend some.


Edit: I don't mean this with any hostility. I just felt I needed to explain myself a little better. I have worked hard to get what I want, and when I needed to, I took what I needed. I didn't break into anyone's house, I never stole wallets, or anything like that. I stole food from grocery stores, and I stole clothes from department stores. As misguided as it may have been, I never stole from private citizens, just there employers. Which I understand eventually costs everyone something, but this culture alienates alot of people and they have no qualms about taking advantage of the system.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: AntiEverything

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: X-Man
because if you work hard enough, you have an opportunity to raise your social standing in life.

That used to be the case the majority of the time, sadly that is now the exception rather than the rule.

Why? Because you're a tard and got yourself fired?

Anybody can improve their standard of living in this country if they want to. Problem is that most people expect it to happen without any effort.

How dare you say that when people in the United States work two jobs and still struggle to make ends meet. Millions of americans work very hard and still live in poverty.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: earthman
Let's continue to perpetuate the myth that there is no poverty in America. Wouldn't want to make us look bad, would you?

No one claims that everyone has lots of money...just opportunity

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: earthman
Let's continue to perpetuate the myth that there is no poverty in America. Wouldn't want to make us look bad, would you?

No one claims that everyone has lots of money...just opportunity

Exactly...and one of the major points in the article from the OP is that so many Americans don't have the oppurtunity they're supposed to have if they work hard.