How many Americans deaths will Trump be directly responsible for due to COVID-45

[Starbuck1975]

Not my fault you refuse to actually defend your contradictions and bad logic. You've utterly refused to explain anything about them. Its pretty clear, despite your claim you were done, you are so upset that you have to keep running back to this thread and responding to my posts. Butttt EBOLA!!!! I'm still waiting on hearing why any infectious disease, including Ebola, alters the fact that SARS-CoV-2 causes severe disease in 19% and has a mortality rate of 1-2%?

This thread is on SARS-CoV-2, if you want to discuss my posting style, make a thread on it. Why are you being such a huge hypocrite?

All edge, no point, copy paste.

 

[abj13]

All edge no point. Copy and paste your same tired argument.

All edge, no point, copy paste.

You are free to somehow explain your horrible contradictions and illogical posts. You chose to run away and came back with nothing but BUTTT EBOLA to somehow justify your bad posts. And now? In order to save face, you want to ad hominem me with more of your unhinged preaching but what you don't practice. If anyone needs to point to a thread of the extent of your massive hypocrisy, this is the one.

Like I've maintained, this thread is on SARS-CoV-2, take your ad hominem to another thread. I'm still waiting on hearing why any infectious disease, including Ebola, alters the fact that SARS-CoV-2 causes severe disease in 19% and has a mortality rate of 1-2%?

 

[Starbuck1975]

You are free to somehow explain your horrible contradictions and illogical posts. You chose to run away and came back with nothing but BUTTT EBOLA to somehow justify your bad posts. And now? In order to save face, you want to ad hominem me with more of your unhinged preaching but what you don't practice. If anyone needs to point to a thread of the extent of your massive hypocrisy, this is the one.

Like I've maintained, this thread is on SARS-CoV-2, take your ad hominem to another thread. I'm still waiting on hearing why any infectious disease, including Ebola, alters the fact that SARS-CoV-2 causes severe disease in 19% and has a mortality rate of 1-2%?

I already explained it to you. All edge, no point. I appreciate your concern.

 

[TheVrolok]

I already explained it to you. All edge, no point. I appreciate your concern.

You know that your condescension isn't strengthing your position or fooling anyone, right? I mean, we can see what you post.

 

[HomerJS]

Of course Republicans continue to sow misinformation. All you Trumpers go out and hang with each other. Shake hands, sneeze on each other. The rest of us stay away from them

‘It’s a great time to go out’: California Republican Devin Nunes talks about life amid the coronavirus pandemic

“Let’s not hurt the working people in this country that are relying on wages and tips to keep their small business going,” Nunes told Fox News. “So don’t run to the grocery store and buy, you know, $4,000 of food, go to your local pub.”

www.yahoo.com

 

[Starbuck1975]

You know that your condescension isn't strengthing your position or fooling anyone, right? I mean, we can see what you post.

You know that you are in no position to offer that assessment. By “we”, I assume you mean concern squad. I explained my reasoning. I don’t expect people to agree with me.

If he wants to keep moving the goal posts and repeating the same tired argument, he is welcome to, and you are welcome to cheer him on. Have fun!

 

[ch33zw1z]

You know that you are in no position to offer that assessment. By “we”, I assume you mean concern squad.

If he wants to keep moving the goal posts and repeating the same tired argument, he is welcome to, and you are welcome to cheer him on. Have fun!

LoL....

Apology accepted.

 

[Starbuck1975]

LoL....

Apology accepted.

lol, concern squad, so concerned

 

[abj13]

I already explained it to you. All edge, no point. I appreciate your concern.

You know that you are in no position to offer that assessment. By “we”, I assume you mean concern squad. I explained my reasoning. I don’t expect people to agree with me.

If he wants to keep moving the goal posts and repeating the same tired argument, he is welcome to, and you are welcome to cheer him on. Have fun!

So much concern for someone who claimed to be done with this thread! Its quite sad. Instead of actually addressing your contradictions and bad posts, you have nothing but your whining like a petulant child and performing your "copy and paste" of the same tired post.This thread is about SARS-CoV-2, instead you are so concerned about me! It is hilarious, this is even worse than your BUTTTT EBOLA hypocracy.

Is there anyone that buys into your idiotic point of why any infectious disease, including Ebola, alters the fact that SARS-CoV-2 causes severe disease in 19% and has a mortality rate of 1-2%?

 

[ch33zw1z]

lol, concern squad, so concerned

You certainly seem to be.

 

[Starbuck1975]

So much concern for someone who claimed to be done with this thread! Its quite sad. Instead of actually addressing your contradictions and bad posts, you have nothing but your whining like a petulant child and performing your "copy and paste" of the same tired post.This thread is about SARS-CoV-2, instead you are so concerned about me! It is hilarious, this is even worse than your BUTTTT EBOLA hypocracy.

Is there anyone that buys into your idiotic point of why any infectious disease, including Ebola, alters the fact that SARS-CoV-2 causes severe disease in 19% and has a mortality rate of 1-2%?

Didn’t say I was done with this thread. I am close to being done with you.

Don’t read the NY Times today. It shows an updated chart projecting that the mortality rate could be as low as .1% due to the fact that asymptomatic carriers won’t receive testing even in countries where testing is extensive.

I brought up ebola because every chart, graph and discussion on coronavirus compares both its lethality and contagiousness against other relevant pandemics and pandemic scares. Ebola, spanish flu, polio, smallpox, bird flu and MERS are often cited.

I’ve provided this same response or a variation to it more than once.

Are you denying that medical experts are using these other diseases to provide perspective on response and threat?

 

[Jhhnn]

The world is playing catch up with a global pandemic.

True enough. OTOH, Trump really messes with their minds-

In Arkansas, the Rev. Josh King met with the pastors of five other churches on Thursday to decide whether to continue holding service. Their religious beliefs told them that meeting in person to worship each Sunday remained an essential part of their faith, and some of their members signed on to Trump’s claims that the media and Democrats were overblowing the danger posed by the virus.
“One pastor said half of his church is ready to lick the floor, to prove there’s no actual virus,” said King, lead pastor at Second Baptist church in Conway, Ark.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/without-guidance-from-the-top-americans-have-been-left-to-figure-out-their-own-coronavirus-solutions/2020/03/15/9875aa64-6550-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html

Funny that.

 

[Brainonska511]

Don’t read the NY Times today. It shows an updated chart projecting that the mortality rate could be as low as .1% due to the fact that asymptomatic carriers won’t receive testing even in countries where testing is extensive.

I'm sure that potentially revised mortality rate that includes asymptomatic individuals will provide solace to the currently severely ill and dead individuals.

 

[Amused]

Didn’t say I was done with this thread. I am close to being done with you.

Don’t read the NY Times today. It shows an updated chart projecting that the mortality rate could be as low as .1% due to the fact that asymptomatic carriers won’t receive testing even in countries where testing is extensive.

I brought up ebola because every chart, graph and discussion on coronavirus compares both its lethality and contagiousness against other relevant pandemics and pandemic scares. Ebola, spanish flu, polio, smallpox, bird flu and MERS are often citing.

I’ve provided this same response or a variation to it more than once.

Are you denying that medical experts are using these other diseases to provide perspective on response and threat

Basic, simple, observational logic would show the point one percent to be a fantasy.

A point one percent mortality rate does not overwhelm the health care systems of China, South Korea and Italy.

It doesn't negate a 15% hospitalization rate or 5% ICU rate.

It doesn't kill 328 people in a single day in Italy at a time when the pandemic there is just getting its pants on and hasn't even hit running speed yet.

Critical thinking is important.

 

[abj13]

Didn’t say I was done with this thread. I am close to being done with you.

So many words, no point. @ch33zw1z likes semantics, maybe he’ll play with you.

Such hypocracy. After having your contradictions and bad arguments pointed out multiple times you had no response, gave up, and walked away, only to resort to BUTTT EBOLA.

Don’t read the NY Times today. It shows an updated chart projecting that the mortality rate could be as low as .1% due to the fact that asymptomatic carriers won’t receive testing even in countries where testing is extensive.

You may not like what Anthony Fauci had to say from yesterday:

Fauci says ‘it’s possible’ hundreds of thousands or millions of US citizens could die from coronavirus - Washington Examiner

America’s top infectious disease expert said “it’s possible” that thousands or even millions of U.S. citizens could die during the coronavirus outbreak. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, appeared on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday and was...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, appeared on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday and was asked if estimates that millions of people dying from illnesses related to the COVID-19 virus pandemic were realistic.

“It’s possible,” Fauci responded, “because when you do a model, you have a worst-case scenario, the best-case scenario, and the reality is how you react to that will depend where you’re going to be on that curve. So obviously, we are clearly gonna have more infections.

“There’s going to be more problems with regard to morbidity and mortality,” he added.

Trying to hide behind whether 0.1 or 1% is the mortality rate is foolish. Does anyone see Anthony Fauci parade around a 0.1% mortality number like you? He sees all possible outcomes and deals with reality. What happened in Italy illustrates this point perfectly. It isn't just deaths that matter, it is how many become critically ill. The current estimate is 19%. Morbidity and mortality matter. You want to diminish it by claiming well it could be 0.1%, which is idiotic. It is a serious threat to the health of many Americans and people across the world.

I brought up ebola because every chart, graph and discussion on coronavirus compares both its lethality and contagiousness against other relevant pandemics and pandemic scares. Ebola, spanish flu, polio, smallpox, bird flu and MERS are often citing.

I’ve provided this same response or a variation to it more than once.

Are you denying that medical experts are using these other diseases to provide perspective on response and threat?

I see schools closing, teams cancelling seasons and drive up test centers being established, with an overall strategy to flatten the curve. People are taking precautions, but this isn’t the black plague or ebola.

Nope, that is not what you said. You tried to diminish what the impact of SARS-CoV-2 by bringing up Ebola or the Black Plague, that's why you brought it up. It is no different than your childish Buttt Trump posts. You used it as a purposely misleading distraction with formulated zero thought.

Good to see you at least consistent in contradicting yourself everytime you make a new post.

 

[UNCjigga]

True enough. OTOH, Trump really messes with their minds-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/without-guidance-from-the-top-americans-have-been-left-to-figure-out-their-own-coronavirus-solutions/2020/03/15/9875aa64-6550-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html

Funny that.

But, why would bootlickers have any issue with licking the floor??

#nosurprise

 

[shortylickens]

The first US layoffs from the coronavirus are here

Donald is not smart or brave enough to deal with these problems. We need a real leader and we don't have one. He's also not smart enough to put someone else in charge. Maybe somebody powerful in the RNC will coerce the guy into getting assistance from a more knowledgeable person. Sad as it sounds that's our best hope right now.

 

[brycejones]

np

The first US layoffs from the coronavirus are here

Donald is not smart or brave enough to deal with these problems. We need a real leader and we don't have one. He's also not smart enough to put someone else in charge. Maybe somebody powerful in the RNC will coerce the guy into getting assistance from a more knowledgeable person. Sad as it sounds that's our best hope right now.

Most servers in MI just got their income whacked down to nothing.

Michigan bars, restaurants, gyms, theaters ordered to close doors because of coronavirus

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's order also applies to gyms, spas, theaters and other public spaces, through at least March 30.

www.freep.com

 

[Starbuck1975]

Basic, simple, observational logic would show the point one percent to be a fantasy.

A point one percent mortality rate does not overwhelm the health care systems of China, South Korea and Italy.

It doesn't negate a 15% hospitalization rate or 5% ICU rate.

It doesn't kill 328 people in a single day in Italy at a time when the pandemic there is just getting its pants on and hasn't even hit running speed yet.

Critical thinking is important.

Critical thinking is important. There are also demographic factors at play.

For example, the mortality rate is higher for older men in China and Italy. I’ve read a few articles where those looking at these numbers attribute this to smoking prevalence for that demographic.

The mortality rate also doesn’t take into account those who are asymptomatic, which is nearly impossible to quantify.

As the situation develops, I think what we’re learning is that those least susceptible are putting those most at risk in danger by not changing lifestyle habits and social distancing.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'm sure that potentially revised mortality rate that includes asymptomatic individuals will provide solace to the currently severely ill and dead individuals.

People tend to get sick and die during once in a century global pandemics.

 

[VRAMdemon]

As the situation develops, I think what we’re learning is that those least susceptible are putting those most at risk in danger by not changing lifestyle habits and social distancing.

Well ....it's interesting that the most people putting others at risk by not changing lifestyle habits and social distancing are - Republicans

This is what you get when the cult like leader with no leadership downplays and lies about most everything for his own personal gain. And the pigeons fall in line.

Sixty percent believe worst is yet to come for the U.S. in coronavirus pandemic

Public attitudes about the coronavirus response are split along partisan lines in a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

www.nbcnews.com

while 61% of Democrats said they're steering clear of gatherings, roughly half (30%) of Republicans said the same thing. More than a third (36%) of Democrats are avoiding restaurants during the crisis, while only 12% of Republicans are making the same choice.

It seems the Republicans making themselves more vulnerable to COVID 19 infection because of the message they have accepted. No?. It would be a helluva sad thing if they effectively lowered their numbers because of this.

If they are voluntarily speeding up the demographic decline that was already pushing them towards irrelevancy, well, to paraphrase a quote attributed to Yogi Berra, if they don't want to survive, nobody's gonna stop them. The crime is that they will keep the curve from flattening, putting the rest of us at greater risk.

 

[Amused]

Critical thinking is important. There are also demographic factors at play.

For example, the mortality rate is higher for older men in China and Italy. I’ve read a few articles where those looking at these numbers attribute this to smoking prevalence for that demographic.

The mortality rate also doesn’t take into account those who are asymptomatic, which is nearly impossible to quantify.

As the situation develops, I think what we’re learning is that those least susceptible are putting those most at risk in danger by not changing lifestyle habits and social distancing.

The US with less than half the cases (3813) of South Korea (8236 and SK is smoking heaven) has a death count of 69.
South Korea's death count is 75.

"As the situation develops, I think what we’re learning is that those least susceptible are putting those most at risk in danger by not changing lifestyle habits and social distancing."

Bullshit. We knew this from the beginning but president denial waited weeks before admitting it was a problem.

Other countries already learned that while Trump was making these statements:

“We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

“By April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

“We’re going very substantially down, not up. . . . We have it so well under control. I mean, we really have done a very good job.”

“As of right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test [can have one], that’s the thing, and the tests are all perfect, like the letter was perfect—the transcription was perfect.”

“They would like to have the people come off [the Grand Princess cruise ship, off the coast of California]. I would like to have the people stay. . . . Because I like the numbers being where they are.”

We lost critical time due to his petty narcissistic denialism.

 

[HomerJS]

It seems the Republicans making themselves more vulnerable to COVID 19 infection because of the message they have accepted. No?. It would be a helluva sad thing if they effectively lowered their numbers because of this.

If they are voluntarily speeding up the demographic decline that was already pushing them towards irrelevancy, well, to paraphrase a quote attributed to Yogi Berra, if they don't want to survive, nobody's gonna stop them. The crime is that they will keep the curve from flattening, putting the rest of us at greater risk.

Let it happen. That right wing brainwashing coming home to roost. Let the lemmings follow Trump off the cliff.

 

[Amused]

Critical thinking is important. There are also demographic factors at play.

For example, the mortality rate is higher for older men in China and Italy. I’ve read a few articles where those looking at these numbers attribute this to smoking prevalence for that demographic.

The mortality rate also doesn’t take into account those who are asymptomatic, which is nearly impossible to quantify.

As the situation develops, I think what we’re learning is that those least susceptible are putting those most at risk in danger by not changing lifestyle habits and social distancing.

Furthermore, this article perfectly sums up the monster your dear leader is and how pathetic your attempts to defend him are:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/trumps-rage-media-takes-dangerous-new-turn/

Trump’s rage at the media takes a dangerous new turn


It’s bad enough that President Trump has relentlessly minimized the coronavirus threat for nakedly political reasons, disastrously hampering the federal government response to the crisis, with untold consequences to come.

Determined not to be outdone by his own malice and depravity, Trump is taking new steps that threaten to make all of it worse. He’s telling millions of Americans to entirely shut out any and all correctives to his falsehoods. He’s insisting they must plug their ears to any criticism designed to hold his government accountable for the failures we’re seeing, even though such criticism could nudge the response in a more constructive direction.

Trump is now raging at the media for reporting on his botched claims about Google’s plans for a new website to steer people to testing options. Trump dramatically overpromised in this regard, forcing Google to scale down the expectations he had created.

But Trump is now blaming the media for supposedly getting this wrong, insisting the project is progressing just as he claimed. Trump tweeted: “Even in times such as these, they are not truthful.”

On the substance, this is nonsense. Trump claimed vindication based on a Google clarification that its efforts to develop the website are on track. This in no way contradicts what press accounts reported — that Trump vastly oversold how far along it was. This remains entirely true.

But also note Trump’s declaration that, in a larger sense, the media is not being truthful at a time of crisis. Trump is using his megaphone to tell the American people not to trust an institution they must rely on for information amid an ongoing public health emergency, all because that institution held him accountable for his own failures on this front.

Trump’s escalating attacks

This is part of a larger pattern that has escalated during this crisis. Early on, Trump raged at the media for supposedly hyping coronavirus to rattle the markets and hurt him politically. Here, too, Trump told the American people not to believe the press even as it accurately informed them about a severe public danger about which Trump himself was busy misleading them.

Then, on Friday, Trump unloaded in a fury at PBS reporter Yamiche Alcindor. What triggered (dare we say it?) Trump was a perfectly reasonable question about whether he takes responsibility for the 2018 disbanding on his watch of the White House pandemic office.

“It’s a nasty question,” Trump sneered, before declining any responsibility for what his own officials do and heaping extensive praise on his own response.

But this was an appropriately aggressive question: As the former head of that office explains, this decision actually did make things worse, facilitating Trump’s decision to minimize the crisis without internal pushback and compromising efforts to coordinate the response.

Yet Trump in essence tried to place this decision beyond scrutiny entirely and lashed out at the media for trying to hold him accountable for it.

Trump rages at accountability

As it happens, Trump has repeatedly lashed out at reporters for the very same transgression — trying to hold him accountable for his own words and deeds.

In late 2018, Trump blasted Alcindor for asking if his rhetoric emboldened white nationalism, fuming that it was a “racist question.” But it was a perfectly reasonable one. Indeed, since then, some white nationalists themselves have rejoiced that Trump pushes their messages in coded form.

Trump also unloaded on Jim Acosta after the CNN reporter pressed Trump on his repeated lies about the “caravan” of migrants. This was a clear case where Trump’s demagoguery was utterly indefensible and threatened serious civic damage, yet Trump was enraged with Acosta for confronting him over it.

Trump vastly minimized a public emergency

These attacks on the media are even more potentially destructive than usual because of what has unfolded in the background: Trump’s relentless efforts to persuade the country that coronavirus is no big deal.

David Leonhardt has produced an exhaustive compilation of Trump’s many statements and actions along these lines. As Leonhardt summarized:

They show a president who put almost no priority on public health. Trump’s priorities were different: Making the virus sound like a minor nuisance. Exaggerating his administration’s response. Blaming foreigners and, anachronistically, the Obama administration. Claiming incorrectly that the situation was improving. Trying to cheer up stock market investors.

Crucially, these impulses on Trump’s part had serious consequences. They prompted health officials to mislead the public and fail to act with the requisite urgency.

The news media responded to this by informing the public about the gravity of the situation and by attempting to hold Trump accountable for those very same failures.

Yet all throughout, Trump has told the American people to dismiss what the media is telling them. First, Trump insisted initial reporting on the crisis was deliberately hyped to harm him. Now Trump is claiming efforts to hold him accountable for all the failings that flowed from that impulse are just more “fake news.”

The big story here is that we’re now seeing just how catastrophically unsuited Trump’s brand of autocracy truly is in the face of a crisis like this one. As Anne Applebaum details, Trump’s enforcement of a loyalty code against civil service professionals, and his retaliation against them for exposing inconvenient truths, paved the way for Trump’s pathologies to hamper the response, because “Trump has very few truth-tellers around him anymore.”

The relentless effort to discredit the very same news media that’s informing the public where he will not, and imposing a form of accountability on Trump that he would never dream of imposing on himself, is of a piece with all that. And we can only guess at how many people will be deceived and misled, at exactly the moment when they need good information the most.

 

[HomerJS]

This