How is not having health insurance responsible?

[boomerang]

I see this argument all the time from conservatives about freedom of choice and that individuals should not be compelled to buy HC if they don't want it.

My question is simple. How is this responsible? No health care is the cheapest form of health care available and so long as that is an option people will continue to not buy any and force good tax payers to foot the bill when they inevitably end up in the emergency room.

You cannot drive a car without insurance. By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance. The only Republican solution I see to this is to deny all coverage to anyone without health insurance. This means lots of people dying, which we've already decided as a nation is unacceptable.

All roads lead to single payer. It is the ONLY option that makes sense. ACA is a step in this direction and the individual mandate is the only thing we can do to enforce that people get onto some form of health insurance.

You need to go buy a shotgun, rifle and a handgun (pistol or revolver) for every member of your household before the end of the year. By government mandate.

Good with that?

 

[Jhhnn]

You need to go buy a shotgun, rifle and a handgun (pistol or revolver) for every member of your household before the end of the year. By government mandate.

Good with that?

And, uhh, people owning or not owning guns affects your bottom line how, exactly?

People not having health insurance cuts into the bottom line of everybody who does, obviously.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Link to 6 month waiting times to get an MRI? Link to them leaving the country to get medical treatment for serious illnesses? In Sweden I can see the doctor the same day or at worst the next day. If I need an MRI I get a referral for it and go get it the same day. I have to wait between an hour or two in the office for my turn. For serious illnesses the emergency rooms here run like clockwork.

How?

All those people getting MRI's who don't need them? That doesn't happen here. Emergency rooms are not clogged with people who don't have health insurance.

Want to see a private doctor? No problem. You pay a bit more and go do it.

There are wait times for MRI's. The number is probably not out of line. That being said we are talking non-emergency circumstances. You also have the option to attend a private imaging service should you not want to wait.

As to people travelling to other countries, well, it's BS. Are there people who go to the US? Sure. Is it in any appreciable number? Absolutely not. There was a great study done called Phantoms in the Snow which surveyed several US hospitals and found it just didn't happen.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12025983

As a Canadian I find it amusing to see so many tell me how awful my health care is. In surveys 90% of Canadians routinely reject the idea of a US styled system. I've said it before but you can't get that many Americans to agree on even the simplest of things.

 

[soulcougher73]

LOL The analogy fails are so strong in this thread. You guys couldnt come up with a good one if obamacare had to save your life.

 

[shady28]

You cannot drive a car without insurance. By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance.

This is all that one needs to see of your post to know that you're an idiot, detached from reality.

 

[AViking]

I just looked it up. Canada needs to buy some damn MRI machines. The whole country has like 85 of them. One of the lowest rates in the world.

 

[1prophet]

I see this argument all the time from conservatives about freedom of choice and that individuals should not be compelled to buy HC if they don't want it.

My question is simple. How is this responsible? No health care is the cheapest form of health care available and so long as that is an option people will continue to not buy any and force good tax payers to foot the bill when they inevitably end up in the emergency room.

You cannot drive a car without insurance. By extension, one should not be able to live without health insurance. The only Republican solution I see to this is to deny all coverage to anyone without health insurance. This means lots of people dying, which we've already decided as a nation is unacceptable.

All roads lead to single payer. It is the ONLY option that makes sense. ACA is a step in this direction and the individual mandate is the only thing we can do to enforce that people get onto some form of health insurance.

And car insurance rewards (lower rates) those that use it least and drive safely (tickets) and punishes (higher rates)those that use it most and drive unsafely (dwi, tickets, etc.)

you sure you want to use car insurance as the basis for health insurance?

 

[nehalem256]

How is having a child when you cannot even feed yourself responsible?

But yet if you go look at the WIC shutdown thread you will see liberals prostrating themselves to support the "right" of people to be irresponsible.

Why such a difference with health insurance?

 

[glenn1]

And car insurance rewards (lower rates) those that use it least and drive safely (tickets) and punishes (higher rates)those that use it most and drive unsafely (dwi, tickets, etc.)

you sure you want to use car insurance as the basis for health insurance?

Evidently not, since Obamacare banned underwriting in the health insurance realm. It's rather schizophrenic considering progressives will zestfully ban large sodas (or tax them) and trans-fats in the name of public health but essentially reward unhealthy behavior when it comes to insurance.

 

[soulcougher73]

How is having a child when you cannot even feed yourself responsible?

But yet if you go look at the WIC shutdown thread you will see liberals prostrating themselves to support the "right" of people to be irresponsible.

Why such a difference with health insurance?

Its not responsible. Can you link me to this WIC thread to see liberals supporting what you say? I must have missed that thread while on my 2 week vacation (real one..not banned ). Sounds fishy anyone would support what you said no matter the side of the isle.

 

[nehalem256]

Its not responsible. Can you link me to this WIC thread to see liberals supporting what you say? I must have missed that thread while on my 2 week vacation (real one..not banned ). Sounds fishy anyone would support what you said no matter the side of the isle.

Read the whole thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2345628

Most of the people are clearly coming down in favor of supporting people being irresponsible. And that expecting people to make responsible choices is insane.

 

[boomerang]

And, uhh, people owning or not owning guns affects your bottom line how, exactly?

People not having health insurance cuts into the bottom line of everybody who does, obviously.

People having mandated health insurance that in many cases increases their costs and their deductibles cuts into their bottom line. People who cannot afford government mandated health insurance and people who will remain flying under the radar will not decrease everyone's costs.

The point I made that you are as usual deliberately trying to skirt around is that this healthcare program is mandatory. The government is mandating that I do something. But only of course if I choose to play by the rules. Those that don't and continue to not play by the rules will continue to do so. They will continue to seek out the emergency room for medical care.

The right had to actually negotiate a clause in Obamacare that mandates verification of income for purposes of reimbursement. That is insane. Without that in place a person could have put down whatever amount of income they wished to receive the subsidy they desired.

Crazy shit dreamed up by the left that the right has to attempt to correct to a level that approaches common sense.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Maybe the next mandate should be people who can't afford to have children having their tubes tied or given a vasectomy. After all these people would be able to afford these procedures due to subsidized insurance as well as subsidized premiums/copays

 

[Bird222]

It's likely not responsible.


Neither is having unprotected sex with a gorgeous girl you just met. Don't want the government outlawing that next do you?

Get it?

Analogy fail. If I as a taxpayer was going to have to pay your child support, I might want to have some say in the matter. I've said it before until we decide to let people die (including your own kids Teapartyers) everyone needs some skin in the game. Right now I think the insurance route is cheaper than people going to the ER.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Right now I think the insurance route is cheaper than people going to the ER.

Taxpayers pay for people using the ER and taxpayers will subsidize the insurance for those that can't afford to buy insurance. I really don't think there will be any huge difference in what the taxpayer will be paying.

 

[Bird222]

Taxpayers pay for people using the ER and taxpayers will subsidize the insurance for those that can't afford to buy insurance. I really don't think there will be any huge difference in what the taxpayer will be paying.

Time will tell but usually when you treat stuff early it's cheaper than waiting until it is an emergency. You know the whole "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" thing.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Time will tell but usually when you treat stuff early it's cheaper than waiting until it is an emergency. You know the whole "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" thing.

I suspect we'll either see people still waiting until it's an emergency to get treatment or overcrowded medical facilities due to people getting every little sniffle, sneeze, or cough checked out.

 

[nehalem256]

Analogy fail. If I as a taxpayer was going to have to pay your child support, I might want to have some say in the matter. I've said it before until we decide to let people die (including your own kids Teapartyers) everyone needs some skin in the game. Right now I think the insurance route is cheaper than people going to the ER.

How does the government paying for people's insurance give them skin in the game?

 

[piasabird]

Try telling that to the people working minimum wage and all the people that were laid off. If you cant afford it you cant afford it. I live in Madison County, IL. The malpractice lawyers have all chased all the good doctors out of our state. Then the State raised the income tax and chased all the business out of our state as well. So all the young people move somewhere else because there are no jobs. The result is there is no tax to collect due to the Nazi's that run the state of IL.

 

[piasabird]

All Obamacare has done is just increase the cost of insurance. How is hiring a bunch of IRS agents to read our insurance information made us safer or helped to cut costs? It is just all a big lie.

It is time for Obama to say he needs more revenue. Time to raise taxes on the little guy. I will give Obama 30 days to start asking for more revenue! Better prepare to start paying more taxes. Obama care is just a tax.

 

[Bird222]

Maybe the next mandate should be people who can't afford to have children having their tubes tied or given a vasectomy. After all these people would be able to afford these procedures due to subsidized insurance as well as subsidized premiums/copays

Actually I don't have a problem requiring people on welfare to have to get birth control to be able to get assistance. Ideally, there would be some miracle technology that could temporarily sterilize people until they have gotten off welfare and demonstrated that they can support themselves.

 

[piasabird]

How about changing the voting age to 30 and you have to prove you paid some federal income taxes!

 

[Bird222]

I suspect we'll either see people still waiting until it's an emergency to get treatment or overcrowded medical facilities due to people getting every little sniffle, sneeze, or cough checked out.

Or.. We could think most people are reasonable and will go to the doctor when they have a real problem and not go for every little thing. What could also help with that is having a co-pay every time they go to the doctor. But health insurance has deductibles and don't pay 100% of medical bills so that should deter people from needlessly going to the doctor. Like I said time will tell. What I don't get is if the Tea Party is so convinced that Obamacare is such a disaster why wouldn't they just let it be fully implemented? People would then see how awful it is and then they would win in a landslide in 2014 and then repeal it. You know like the normal democratic process where evidence and convincing arguments win.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Why many in this country stick to the fantasy that free markets in healthcare are the best way to drive down costs is a mystery, especially when many of our counterparts in the western world PROVE the exact opposite. The US is a case study of why that thinking is bullshit. It seems entirely predicated on the myth that doctors in their gleaming white coats, and their corporate bosses, have the patients best interest in mind and nothing else. I am personally good friends with a neurosurgeon, and based on many conversations with her that is absolutely false. They go to work for the same reason we do, to make the most money they can. They game their billing systems to wring every dollar out of each patient. Left unchecked, what you have is the current US healthcare system with it's sky high costs.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Or.. We could think most people are reasonable and will go to the doctor when they have a real problem and not go for every little thing. What could also help with that is having a co-pay every time they go to the doctor. But health insurance has deductibles and don't pay 100% of medical bills so that should deter people from needlessly going to the doctor. Like I said time will tell. What I don't get is if the Tea Party is so convinced that Obamacare is such a disaster why wouldn't they just let it be fully implemented? People would then see how awful it is and then they would win in a landslide in 2014 and then repeal it. You know like the normal democratic process where evidence and convincing arguments win.

From what I understand people in the lower wage brackets will have subsidized deductibles and copays as well. If they're below a certain level (138% of poverty level) they will be put on medicaid so they won't have any copays or deductibles.