How *important* are Graphics to you?

[Inspector Jihad]

why do you people type like that.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
And personally, I think immersion is a big load of crap that marketers use to push games. There are different kinds, and IMHO, the kind you're talking about is a load of horsesh1t. Getting caught up in the story is one thing... feeling like you're "in the game" because it's so beautiful or some crap is idiotic. FPS can come close if they're intense enough and really draw you into the graphics... but I've never felt "immersed" in the sense that I think you're trying to convey.

no ... that is NOT the kind of immersion i am talking about it ... where you are so *overwhelmed* you enjoy it ... uh, no.

actually the reverse of it

where the game/story/combat is good but the graphics so *jarring* you notice and it takes you *out* of the game

well, me, anyway ... i "notice"

and ... i guess some people like Atari 2600 gfx

--not me

there are plenty of *beautiful* great games left for me to play


and lots of not-so-beautiful ones ... than i can tolerate


thankfully

 

[apoppin]

this very recent thread is for you guys:

AbandonWare - Huge Directory of Old Skool Classics

i used to love Ms Pacman and Q*bert ... i could play Q*bert all day on a quarter and over 3,000,000 in MsP

but i wouldn't play them again ... except for a couple of minutes

i guess nostalgia doesn't *work* for me
:brokenheart:

and it is *much Worse* starting a fUgly old game that is brand new to me ...
--i just hate to put the effort into learning it ... especially RPG like PS:T ... where it is more of a *commitment*

 

[imported_Imp]

Find yourself a crappy 15" monitor, then the dot pitch will be so damn small it might look good! That or it's so small you can't even see anything. It's what I played BG, BG2 and age old games on. Personally, I can't play stuff that old. It's not just the graphics anymore either. It really bothers me that old games don't even have basic physics, jumping, leaning, non-retarded interfaces... I'm looking at you Total War Eras; can only play Rome, and even that is ugly and ass compared to Medieval 2.

 

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: Imp
Find yourself a crappy 15" monitor, then the dot pitch will be so damn small it might look good!

It's funny you mention this. apoppin compared PS:T to Unreal early... which is silly. Unreal has the benefit of being playable at a variety of resolutions, whereas PS:T, due to it's nature, is stuck at one or two. Try playing Unreal on a 20" monitor at 640x480 or 800x600 and THEN tell me it's that much more beautiful than PS:T. :roll:

Originally posted by: apoppin
and it is *much Worse* starting a fUgly old game that is brand new to me ...
--i just hate to put the effort into learning it ... especially RPG like PS:T ... where it is more of a *commitment*

Then don't bother picking up 10 year old games, because you'll just be disappointed. Though I don't consider PS:T to be fugly. You've made it clear that you're swayed more by the graphical aspects of a game than the quality of the gameplay.

Originally posted by: apoppin
actually the reverse of it

where the game/story/combat is good but the graphics so *jarring* you notice and it takes you *out* of the game

We're talking about the same damn thing. The only difference is you're talking about the absence of it... while I was trying to define the thing you felt is missing because of old/poor graphics. :roll: Regardless, I think it's stupid to argue immersion because, again, the kind you're talking about just doesn't happen. When I feel "immersed" in a game, it's because the gameplay is addicting or intense to the point that I feel I can't put it down. I have never been so enthralled by graphics that I couldn't put a game down. Graphics don't make the game, but they can enhance it... to a point.

 

[Regs]

Very important in most games. I don't agree with the tried statement of "graphics don't make the game" . They play a crucial part in the atmosphere and actual mechanics of a game.

HL2 - graphics made that game.
COH - graphics made that game.


Hell I still play tetris though at least im not in denial

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k

Originally posted by: Imp
Find yourself a crappy 15" monitor, then the dot pitch will be so damn small it might look good!

It's funny you mention this. apoppin compared PS:T to Unreal early... which is silly. Unreal has the benefit of being playable at a variety of resolutions, whereas PS:T, due to it's nature, is stuck at one or two. Try playing Unreal on a 20" monitor at 640x480 or 800x600 and THEN tell me it's that much more beautiful than PS:T. :roll:

why is it Unfair? Both Unreal and PS:T came out the same year *EDIT* Unreal is 18 months older ... one is fUgly as hell and the other *much nicer* ... why should i *limit* my choices to make Unreal also uglier then it was intended?

Originally posted by: apoppin
and it is *much Worse* starting a fUgly old game that is brand new to me ...
--i just hate to put the effort into learning it ... especially RPG like PS:T ... where it is more of a *commitment*

Then don't bother picking up 10 year old games, because you'll just be disappointed. Though I don't consider PS:T to be fugly. You've made it clear that you're swayed more by the graphical aspects of a game than the quality of the gameplay.[/quote]it *isn't* a ten-year-old game ... it is the *same* age as Unreal which i DON'T MIND playing. PS:T gfx rudely 'shock' me out of the "disbelief"

Originally posted by: apoppin
actually the reverse of it

where the game/story/combat is good but the graphics so *jarring* you notice and it takes you *out* of the game

We're talking about the same damn thing. The only difference is you're talking about the absence of it... while I was trying to define the thing you felt is missing because of old/poor graphics. :roll: Regardless, I think it's stupid to argue immersion because, again, the kind you're talking about just doesn't happen. When I feel "immersed" in a game, it's because the gameplay is addicting or intense to the point that I feel I can't put it down. I have never been so enthralled by graphics that I couldn't put a game down. Graphics don't make the game, but they can enhance it... to a point.[/quote]

again you *miss* my point by a mile or more

i can't *GET INTO* PS:T because it is so damn fUgly ... "starting" is impossible
--in my humble opinion

otoh i have *never* been "so awed" by the GXF that i accepted or was immersed in an inferior game [e.g. D3 .... awesome gfx of that year couldn't hide its extreme mediocrity and repetitiveness ... i couldn't be "immersed" despite the superb gfx.

as i said ... maybe your *standards* are lower

 

[KeithTalent]

Graphics, while nice, are not imperative for me to enjoy a game. This is evidenced by the fact I enjoyed PS:T and still play the Phantasy Star & Final Fantasy games via emulator.

However, I must admit that graphics can enhance immersion in a game (as evidenced by my increased enjoyment of HL2 after upgrading my monitor and video card).

Overall I just go by what I have the most fun playing and try not to put too much importance on either, if that makes any sense.

KT

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: apoppin
why is it Unfair? Both Unreal and PS:T came out the same year

PST

Release date(s) December 12, 1999

Unreal

Release date(s) May 22, 1998

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: apoppin
why is it Unfair? Both Unreal and PS:T came out the same year

PST

Release date(s) December 12, 1999

Unreal

Release date(s) May 22, 1998

i *already* knew that

. . . and even posted it in an earlier post ... Return to NaPali came out in '99 ... PS:T almost came out in 2000 by less than 3 weeks.


Unreal IS over 18 months *older* than PS:T and yet looks ten times better
thanks, Schadenfroh

 

[QueBert]

PS:T has(had) decent graphics for a 3rd person birds eye view game. I've played Titans Quest and honestly couldn't get immersed in it. HL2 I felt like I was apart of the world. Titans Quest, I felt like I was playing a nice looking game.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i *already* knew that

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: apoppin
i *already* knew that

Originally posted by: apoppin
it says '99 on the Disk

and 'top notch' for RPG .. not FPS
... wasn't Unreal also '99
Nope ... '98 ... na pali was '99
i believe thief and SS2 were '99 ... but Unreal blew them away, graphically

there is no comparison

Edited: 03/10/2007 at 12:30 PM by apoppin

i looked it up ... and then forgot what i posted.

the *same* wiki ... and i *edited* my post long before i posted wrongly again.
:Q

actually i confused na pali expansion release with the original's date

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Eh. Graphics are important, yes, to an extent. But I'll forgive them if it's made up for in other aspects. Torment makes up in storyline and audio.

The Unreal versus torment comparison isn't entirely fair though. Unreal was meant to be a beautiful world. Torment...well, isn't. Sigil, even if it were done at a zillion polies at 2560x1600, would still be the bland, gray, oppressiveness it is, because Sigil is meant to be bland, gray and oppressive. It's the armpit of multiverse, after all.

At any rate, if graphics are that important to you, give up. Really. Nobody is keeping score, and 99% of what makes torment great is plain text anyway.

Just mark it up to different strokes. Lots of people tell me HL2 is brilliant, but playing through it for the first time now, it's so far been mediocre at best. Some games just aren't your thing. Move on dude.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: apoppin
I forgot what i posted.

No worries, I forgot Atari was behind NWN2 in the other thread (despite the fact that next to you I am the biggest critic of the title on the forums) and used "the Hillary mod" to worm out of it:laugh:

I always get Obsidian mixed up with Black Isle Studios / Interplay and sometimes I mistake one for the other on the forums..... despite the fact that interplay is no more.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Eh. Graphics are important, yes, to an extent. But I'll forgive them if it's made up for in other aspects. Torment makes up in storyline and audio.

The Unreal versus torment comparison isn't entirely fair though. Unreal was meant to be a beautiful world. Torment...well, isn't. Sigil, even if it were done at a zillion polies at 2560x1600, would still be the bland, gray, oppressiveness it is, because Sigil is meant to be bland, gray and oppressive. It's the armpit of multiverse, after all.

At any rate, if graphics are that important to you, give up. Really. Nobody is keeping score, and 99% of what makes torment great is plain text anyway.

Just mark it up to different strokes. Lots of people tell me HL2 is brilliant, but playing through it for the first time now, it's so far been mediocre at best. Some games just aren't your thing. Move on dude.

i did ... uninstalled it

it's up for trade ... anyone with more patience can have it for the cost of postage ... -or trade for a game i want.
--PM me

as to "drabness", D3 and PainKiller were deliberately "ugly"
-D3's gfx are exceptionsl and PK has the greatest mood - and undocumented weapons combos, unlockable levels, secret spots and great use of Havok plus *depth* - and awesome sky-boxes

HL2 wasn't *special* for me ... even for a FPS - unlike its predecessor [despite the despicable Xen, was much better]

but i digress

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Haven't played PK, but D3 wasn't meant to be ugly, not in the same sense, anyway. Even with a demonic infestation, a high tech space facility ain't a ghetto.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Hmm...quick question. Would the game have been more palatable to you if it had moved at twice the speed?

 

[apoppin]

PK and D3 were the respective Devs version of *hell*

--not heaven

and you *missed it* ... PK/BOoH is an *extraordinary* game ... especially for a "pure" adrenaline FPS ... a rare game with UNDOCUMENTED *depth*

you find it yourself or cheat by reading a walkthru

amazing game ... recommended ... i have it for trade also
:thumbsup:

not at all like its HORRIBLE demo

EDIT: Faster? that would have helped ...

the RESOLUTION is ANNOYING

10x7 is so much better ... surprisingly ... and has been my minimum

i will *never* play a brand new game at 8x6 ... i will upgrade or set details to zero first.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

resolution, unfortunately, is dead on fixed. You can however tweak a value in one of the ini files to increase the framerate. Setting it up to 60 from 30 effectively doubles the speed of the game. Messes up audio sync in a few cutscenes though.

 

[apoppin]

i know ... i read the FAQ ... there is no "cure" for more than 8x6 in PS:T

IF a new game comes out that i want to play and it so chokes my current system that i have to go below 10x7 - and i will *disable* and lower every OTHER setting, first - i will put it away until i can UPGRADE my system to be able to play it at better than 10x7.

8x6 is Intolerable ... for me

i get a raging headache and my eyes start to cross ... the pixels are huge but i have to strain to see the characters and action and the text is a problem also.

no thank-you

maybe ... someday ... someone will update it

EDIT: i guess i could run it in a window ..
:light:


wo hoo back to 15" ... naw
:frown:

 

[raystorm]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
why do you people type like that.

Its quite a challenge reading this thread. lol Boy is it tough...


As for PS:Torment. I totally loved the game when it first came out and I really have no problem with the visuals even today. Old 2D graphics don't really bother me at all while old 3D graphics are just putrid. I could play old games from the early 80's but I can't play early 3D games with its blocky visuals, poor framerates...etc. Just my opinion though.

 

[CKent]

If I played it back when it was reasonably new, I can still play it out of nostalgia (well, sometimes... I can't play Doom / Doom2, they're just too old). Otherwise, no.

 

[Chaotic42]

I had the same problem with Chrono Cross. It's an ugly game anyway, but it looks really bad on a 42" plasma.

 

[BFG10K]

I know how you feel - I just couldn't get into System Shock 2 because it looked butt ugly.

In particular the bird beaks on enemies killed any sense of immersion.