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How fast should I be able to OC my I5 2500k?

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john3850

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2002
1,436
21
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i'm surprised that no one said anything about that cooler :p

Hyper n212 is a *budget* cooler and adding a second fan may only give you a tiny bit better cooling performance.

imo it's not recommended for a high overclock although it is good bang for buck overall.

The base is rough and you have to use a lot of thermal compound to fill it in
(you can really scratch up your CPU just installing it)
CPUscuffClose.jpg


EDIT: OOPS .. i see that MadScientist covered it in the above post
:O
I said that was a poor cooler in a few posts and op got on my case and said its a good decent hsf.
I put a 212+ on c2d that I gave away and still I had to add a 2nd fan.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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alienbabeltech.com
I said that was a poor cooler in a few posts and op got on my case and said its a good decent hsf.
I put a 212+ on c2d that I gave away and still I had to add a 2nd fan.
It is *decent* ... it beats the stock cooler by a mile and it is cheap to buy
- i reviewed it for ABT and gave it good marks. Adding the second fan makes very little difference unless you are right on the edge - and then you should just get a better cooler

*HOWEVER* i later reviewed my current Noctua cooler
The conclusion:

IF you are a serious overclocker, you will want the Noctua - you do get what you pay for.
:cool:
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,275
16,120
136
Also I know there is a difference in OC , from a 2500k to 2600k ..

2600k you can bang it at 5.7 , if u buy a asus or gigbyte with it. 16GB quad channel ram.. :) gl

Also its a voltage game. Higher you take it the more you can OC , but also gets HOT and doesnt function as it should...

The top 1% of the chips hit 5 ghz. I have not even seen a stable air-cooled 5.7 ghz, I don;t even think a water setup could do that.

And, no they are still dual-channel, not quad.
 

pantsaregood

Senior member
Feb 13, 2011
993
37
91
I personally believe the 212+ is often underrated. My 2500K with a 212+ won't break 60C load under Linpack at 4.5GHz/1.36v.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,636
2,029
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I personally believe the 212+ is often underrated. My 2500K with a 212+ won't break 60C load under Linpack at 4.5GHz/1.36v.

I'm curious about your OC. So I'll ask some questions, if you don't mind.

* Are you over-clocking in "Turbo" mode?
* Either way -- have you set the VCORE to "Auto?" Or have you fixed the voltage to an absolute value?
* Have you left LLC at "Disabled" or "0% -- Regular", or have you enabled it? If there is an LLC "scale" -- which notch on the scale did you choose to set it?
* Which motherboard are you using?
* When you say 60C Load temperature, do you mean the highest of any of each core, or the "Package" temperature?
* Are you running the IntelBurnTest version of Linpack, or something else? If IBT, are you running it at the stress-level of "Standard," "High," "Very High," or "Maximum?"

For this Hyper N212+ cooler, I wouldn't "diss" it just for looking at the pictures. I'd bet the the Noctua may have marginally superior performance, but I'd have to see reviews comparing the Hyper with . . . anything else . . . . preferably something that cross-references to Noctua comparisons.

But note that the Hyper ships with a bare copper base, while your Noctua coolers or ThermalRight [etc.] have nickel-plated bases. Bare copper is better [unless you lap the nickel-plated coolers.]
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Hyper n212 is a *budget* cooler and adding a second fan may only give you a tiny bit better cooling performance.

imo it's not recommended for a high overclock although it is good bang for buck overall.

Ya, the 212+ is a great cooler, but competition has caught up big time. You can often find Scythe Mugen 2 for ~ $30, Titan Fenrir for $32. I've also seen Zalman CNPS10x Performa and Gelid Tranquillo for low $30s. With these superior cooler offerings, the CM212+ isn't that great for $30.

But note that the Hyper ships with a bare copper base, while your Noctua coolers or ThermalRight [etc.] have nickel-plated bases. Bare copper is better [unless you lap the nickel-plated coolers.]

Even if it's better, that design isn't enough to overcome the lower surface cooling area. While the 212+ is an awesome cooler for $25-30, it has no chance of competing with the better air coolers on the market once higher overclocks are considered:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/44824-evga-superclock-cpu-cooler-review-8.html

That table doesn't even include the Noctua NH-D14, the Thermalright Archon or the Thermalright Silver Arrow, all of which outperform the Megahalems. Obviously, it's expected since they cost > 2x more.

In this test, even with 2 fans, the 212+ was a whopping 15*C worse than the Thermalrght IFX-14. If you are going for 4.8+ ghz overclock on the 2500k/2600k, you'll want something much better.
 
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MadScientist

Platinum Member
Jul 15, 2001
2,183
63
91
I personally believe the 212+ is often underrated. My 2500K with a 212+ won't break 60C load under Linpack at 4.5GHz/1.36v.

Which Linpack based stress test are you using? LinX or Intel Burn Test V.2.51? Are you running it at maximum ram? 60C load at 1.36V would seem plausible for IBT's standard setting not max.

For those using LinX 0.6.4 it needs updating. Download the Windows Linpack package from Intel, and copy and replace from the linpack folder files linpack_xeon32.exe and linpack_xeon64.exe to the LinX0.6.4 LinX folder.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-math-kernel-library-linpack-download/
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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For this Hyper N212+ cooler, I wouldn't "diss" it just for looking at the pictures. I'd bet the the Noctua may have marginally superior performance, but I'd have to see reviews comparing the Hyper with . . . anything else . . . . preferably something that cross-references to Noctua comparisons.

But note that the Hyper ships with a bare copper base, while your Noctua coolers or ThermalRight [etc.] have nickel-plated bases. Bare copper is better [unless you lap the nickel-plated coolers.]
The Noctua has significantly better cooling performance; i did test it against my Hyper N212+ for AlienBabelTech - and out came the CM cooler

Machined bare copper is poor for conducting heat; you have to put on the thermal compound with a spatula - like some women do with pancaking makeup over their blemishes and deep holes (OK, i exaggerate)
:biggrin:

If i am not mistaken, Nickel plating thickness is measured in microns and it keeps the copper from oxidizing - the Noctua base is like a mirror's perfect surface in comparison to the rough surface of the N212+
^_^
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,636
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The Noctua has significantly better cooling performance; i did test it against my Hyper N212+ for AlienBabelTech - and out came the CM cooler

Machined bare copper is poor for conducting heat; you have to put on the thermal compound with a spatula - like some women do with pancaking makeup over their blemishes and deep holes (OK, i exaggerate)
:biggrin:

If i am not mistaken, Nickel plating thickness is measured in microns and it keeps the copper from oxidizing - the Noctua base is like a mirror's perfect surface in comparison to the rough surface of the N212+
^_^

Well, we've been all over this over the past four years, and you're free to disagree anyway. I ran experiments, got my CoreTemp posting to a log-file every few seconds for runs of several hours.

Several metals/materials/substances used in heatsink construction are chosen for their thermal conductivity and thermal resistance. I think you'll find tables published in archives for OC'ing sites [ www.overclockers.com is one . . ] with this data. Aluminum -- among heatsink choices, ranks at the bottom of those used. Then follows copper. Then silver. I forgot where gold fits in, but it's worse than silver as I recall.

As you noted, they use nickel-plating to inhibit corrosion. There is another table called the "Galvanic" table, and elements/materials closest to each other are often chosen to plate another for that reason -- Nickel and Copper are together on that table. But Nickel has inferior thermal conductivity and higher thermal resistance.

My own experiments resulted in bar-chart frequency distributions for "plated" versus "lapped-to-bare-copper." They confirm what several of us here might agree: you can reduce your high-temperatures by grinding off the nickel from a copper IHS or heatsink base, and the temperature reduction is additive for two surfaces.

As for corrosion, I spoke to ThermalRight tech-reps and it became clear that their biggest concerns were corrosion or compromise to the welds or solder-joints where the heatpipes meet the base. If the area exposed will be covered with TIM and sealed under pressure, it's not going to result in the situation you might find sticking polished copper on a pole at the beach to expose it to salt in the air.

Earlier in recent weeks here at the forums, we concluded that the plating process is done for the final assembly as you'd imagine it, and that lapping the base would add to manufacturing costs, so they don't do it. And of course, lapping could be done by the uninitiated grasping the assembly by the fins and pipes, which might result in damage to the joints, so -- of course -- they would take the opportunity to include that in things voiding a warranty.

The only problem I see with the CM cooler is the gaps and grooves. I also had a Xigmatek "direct-touch" cooler, tried it, and found that it didn't perform as well as a lapped ThermalRight, Noctua or Prolimatech, although in theory, it should have an advantage for removing the base-plate from the equation.

But in my judgments here, I can see a lot of these coolers as "more than acceptable." You'd just want to pick the one with the lab-measured minimum thermal resistance in published results using identical test-beds. You can trade-off expense against peformance given the range of prices, but if you do so, it should be a deliberate choice to compromise a few degrees on the load temperatures.

On the other hand, if the market assigns prices based on performance as well as quality and construction factors, you have a choice of paying maybe an extra $10 or $20 to capture a few degrees Celsius over other options. [Of course, sometimes [more often than some may think!] markets don't work efficiently, but efficient pricing is more likely in this near-perfectly-competitive situation of several . . . many different manufacturers. Any anomalies will be less evident than a fairly good ranking according to "get what you pay for."
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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The only problem I see with the CM cooler is the gaps and grooves. . . .

But in my judgments here, I can see a lot of these coolers as "more than acceptable." ...
You should be a writer
:D

*The problem* with the 212+ *IS* the gaps and grooves and you cannot do any more than polish it; you cannot lap it significantly without compromising its structural integrity.

i reviewed it for my tech site back in September '09 and i concluded this:
Cooler Master’s Hyper N212 is an excellent cooler for a inexpensive price and it is well-deserving of our “Editor’s Choice” award. Recommended.
:thumbsup: Great bang for buck - but it cannot match a premium coolers if you really want a good overclock on air. My Noctua also isn't the best CPU cooler; its main feature is its being able to really cool well for being so quiet.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,636
2,029
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You should be a writer
:D

*The problem* with the 212+ *IS* the gaps and grooves and you cannot do any more than polish it; you cannot lap it significantly without compromising its structural integrity.

i reviewed it for my tech site back in September '09 and i concluded this:
:thumbsup: Great bang for buck - but it cannot match a premium coolers if you really want a good overclock on air. My Noctua also isn't the best CPU cooler; its main feature is its being able to really cool well for being so quiet.

Do you have the single-tower Noctua -- [if I can remember -- I HAVE one in operation furChrissake!] -- NH-U12P[??] or the recent entry [probably more than a year old now, but I wasn't keeping track . . . ] the NH-D14? I also got the D14 for the new rig. Could've got the latest Prolimatech.

I'd agree about these "direct-touch" units. I can see the problem with them.

Again -- I always attempt to do a "review search" on these things. You'd like to see all reviews as thorough as Anandtech's (they did two) in 2007. You're lucky if you find a review that compares five or six, even if the topic of the review is a single cooler. They seldom -- if ever -- report thermal resistance, but that summarizes everything when comparing these coolers, except fan-noise. If not thermal resistance -- a single test-bed, controlled ambient temperatures, same thermal paste. Then the results should show idle versus load temperature for the same specific stress-test across the board.

A person is either going to be serious about this business, or choose a unit based on need and budget as opposed to "want" and cooling-objective. I think they're all under $80, even if that price makes you think again about dropping $200 (or whatever) into water-cooling.

A writer is someone who writes. Amazes me how much I prefer e-mail versus telephone these days . .. . Also -- I have concerns how my fingers can run away from me on these forums. Nobody's kicked me off yet, but . . . "economy of words" needs . . . attention . . . .
 
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apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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Do you have the single-tower Noctua -- [if I can remember -- I HAVE one in operation furChrissake!] -- NH-U12P[??] or the recent entry [probably more than a year old now, but I wasn't keeping track . . . ] the NH-D14? I also got the D14 for the new rig. Could've got the latest Prolimatech.

I'd agree about these "direct-touch" units. I can see the problem with them.

Again -- I always attempt to do a "review search" on these things. You'd like to see all reviews as thorough as Anandtech's (they did two) in 2007. You're lucky if you find a review that compares five or six, even if the topic of the review is a single cooler. They seldom -- if ever -- report thermal resistance, but that summarizes everything when comparing these coolers, except fan-noise. If not thermal resistance -- a single test-bed, controlled ambient temperatures, same thermal paste. Then the results should show idle versus load temperature for the same specific stress-test across the board.

A person is either going to be serious about this business, or choose a unit based on need and budget as opposed to "want" and cooling-objective. I think they're all under $80, even if that price makes you think again about dropping $200 (or whatever) into water-cooling.

A writer is someone who writes. Amazes me how much I prefer e-mail versus telephone these days . .. . Also -- I have concerns how my fingers can run away from me on these forums. Nobody's kicked me off yet, but . . . "economy of words" needs . . . attention . . . .
i posted a picture of it a few posts above. It is detailed in my sig.

i agree about bang-for-buck. However if you are going for air cooling and are an overclocker, pick a good one - it will likely last for several builds. My old Thermalright UltraExtreme120 is cooling my Phenom II 980 BE at 4.3GHz after years of service cooling my Intel CPUs.
:thumbsup:

Many enthusiasts won't touch watercooling and quietness is a big factor factor for me (especially because i specialize in video card reviews).

i would be a writer . . .
:whiste:

i just looked in my sig ...
Noctua U12P SE2
 
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Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
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4.5 most likely. 5? You can see my rig 1 below. Heck I booted into windows at 4.8 but opted for 4.4 for a super stable system. There are tons of tweaks for the 2500k. My advice? Start slow. Add an extra fan to the hyper plus 212. CoolerMaster makes a 120 mm bladerunner that is very similar to the oem fan on the Hyper 212+. Try to sychro the fans ( make sure the pull on the rear is running as fast or slightly faster than the push. I have the same MB and it is a BEAST. Tons of options. What PSU and video are you using?

Seasonic SS-850HT 850w Silver for the PSU. Its great, I got way more connectors than I really need. Plenty for future upgrades/builds.

And x2 HIS IceQ 6970 turbos for GPUs. Stock OCd, and appears to have a better than stock cooler, for only about $20 more than the sapphire stock 6970.

And I'm pretty sure I could smooth the surface of a 212 with a polishing wheel I got at work. Take about 2 mins. But I would have to remove it and re-apply thermal compound, as long as I can get 4.3-4.5GHZ I probably wont worry about it.

And for $10 more I would have bought the Noctua, but the 212 was recommended to me by a friend.
 
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apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
And I'm pretty sure I could smooth the surface of a 212 with a polishing wheel I got at work. Take about 2 mins.
Coolermaster told me not to. You may polish it but not lap it. If you use a wheel and start to remove material to even out the roughness, you will compromise the (cheap very thin) heatpipes and you will have worthless junk.

Hyper N212+ is a budget cooler that does a decent job. Don't expect it to match the better air coolers, however.
^_^
 

Jhatfie

Senior member
Jan 20, 2004
749
2
81
I personally really like the Cooler Master Hyper 212+, I have one of the old versions still cooling my son's E8400. However, like it has been mentioned, it is a budget cooler. It works well and is good for moderate overclocking. Adding a second fan mainly added just noise for me, dropping peak temps by 2-3C. Hardly worth the added noise penalty.

I also ran one with my i5 setup and when I switched to my Thermalright Silver Arrow I was able to squeeze another 200mhz out of my i5-750 for 24/7 use, adding additional voltage while dropping temps more than 10C under load at the same time. Really no comparison once additional voltages are compiled into the equation.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,636
2,029
126
i posted a picture of it a few posts above. It is detailed in my sig.

i agree about bang-for-buck. However if you are going for air cooling and are an overclocker, pick a good one - it will likely last for several builds. My old Thermalright UltraExtreme120 is cooling my Phenom II 980 BE at 4.3GHz after years of service cooling my Intel CPUs.
:thumbsup:

Many enthusiasts won't touch watercooling and quietness is a big factor factor for me (especially because i specialize in video card reviews).

i would be a writer . . .
:whiste:

i just looked in my sig ...
Noctua U12P SE2

Yeah -- that's about the truth. I think the TRUE had been rated at somewhere between 0.09 and 0.10+ C/W.

The watercooking observation is interesting. By some definitions, you wouldn't be "an enthusiast" if you didn't use "H2O." [Like some are saying that "Sandy Bridge" isn't for "enthusiasts . . :biggrin: ] My reticence about it began when it was still becoming popular, with the unfounded worries about leaks, shorts and equipment failure, but it's still an issue about "adding another subsystem" to the mix -- slightly more complexity. You would still use fans, but you have to prime the coolant from the reservoir or the fill-tube once in a while; you have to attend more to keeping it clean, even with the biocide additiives. Hose connections -- all that extra stuff. I'm looking at it again, though, because I can see a reduction of 10 to 15C with just a decent "WC Kit."

I'd even researched some projects of others, like building an "evaporative cooler" tower external to your box that fed the water-blocks. [It would also add humidity -- even mist -- to you household air.] Too cumbersome, though.

ONe guy had even frozen filled plastic water bottles, dumped them in a Rubbermaid tray or storage box, and run the water-hoses through a copper-coil immersed in water with the ice-filled bottles. [Not enough control of temperatures, though . . . . ] Rube Goldberg stuff!!
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Well, watercooling certainly isn't silent. :p

It definitely adds complexity and maintenance to a PC that you don't have with air cooling. Ten degrees don't matter to me. i run conservatively at 3.8GHz with turbo on and i can definitely run 4.0GHz for the benches - so what would i be gaining? Another +200MHz?


i always thought there might be some use for an old small refrigerators that are popular in dorms and studios. If you sealed the guts of the PC inside and rarely opened it, there mightn't be any issues with condensation. And you could keep a beer tap on the outside ... but i see Nvidia has already done this and it holds about 1/2 gallon of beer:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sierra-nevada-beer-keg-casemod,11922.html
kegputer.jpg
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,636
2,029
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Well, watercooling certainly isn't silent. :p

It definitely adds complexity and maintenance to a PC that you don't have with air cooling. Ten degrees don't matter to me. i run conservatively at 3.8GHz with turbo on and i can definitely run 4.0GHz for the benches - so what would i be gaining? Another +200MHz?


i always thought there might be some use for an old small refrigerators that are popular in dorms and studios. If you sealed the guts of the PC inside and rarely opened it, there mightn't be any issues with condensation. And you could keep a beer tap on the outside ... but i see Nvidia has already done this and it holds about 1/2 gallon of beer:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sierra-nevada-beer-keg-casemod,11922.html
kegputer.jpg

Ha-ha! Yeah -- my brother brews beer -- in pretty decent quantities for a "home-brewer." Our interests dovetailed when I wanted to convert a top-loading freezer into a wine chiller with a Johnson-Controls digital thermal control device.

But I had another idea, again as cumbersome as the evaporative cooler idea. I had just got a junk-mail ad in the mail a couple weeks ago for "Nestle Pure-Life" bottled water, that included a plug for a water-cooler they sell. This is nothing new, though: I think somebody already did it, although it would pre-empt the use of biocide/antifreeze from your water-cooling loop if you actually planned to use the water-cooler for drinking as well, or figured a way to put a coil inside the water-cooler and keep your loop separate from its reservoir. But the latter approach would also be less effective . . .
 

rageguy34

Junior Member
Jun 10, 2009
6
0
61
I have a 2500K running @ 4.6 Ghz, 1.275v using a Corsair H70 with 2 Noctura fans instead of the stock ones since the stock ones are way too loud. Temps stay in the low 50C and never seen it go over 54C
 

MadScientist

Platinum Member
Jul 15, 2001
2,183
63
91
I have a 2500K running @ 4.6 Ghz, 1.275v using a Corsair H70 with 2 Noctura fans instead of the stock ones since the stock ones are way too loud. Temps stay in the low 50C and never seen it go over 54C

I'm assuming those are Prime 95 load temps.

I thought about going with the new Corsair H80. It's supposed to be ~12-15% more efficient than the H70. I bit pricey though, $109.99 from the Egg.

How do have your fans push/pull config set up?
 

Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
0
0
Decided to go with a new board since I got 2 bad ASrock boards in a row.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128494

If I can get at least 4.2-4.5 GHZ stable, I will be satisfied. If the stock cooler can do 3.8, I should have no problem getting at least 4.2 with the 212?

I got 2 powerful GPUs, and most games are GPU hungry, not CPU, and even if they are CPU hungry somewhere in the 4.2-4.5 GHZ range should be more than enough.

In fact I probably wont even need to OC this processor at all for gaming, but I would like to in the future if its required.