How dumb would you have to be to preorder GF-FX now???

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chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
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[/i]WDM Capture Driver version 6.13.10.6168v1 is required for capture support on ALL-IN-WONDER and VIVO products. [/i] - go to past driver releases to find the WDM drivers.

Addresses video capture and video overlay, as well as directdraw. There's no capture driver for the 3.0's, either ATI chose not to address the problem or they simply "forgot".

The third to last bullet in "fixed issues" and the second bullet in "known issues" from the 3.0's driver release notes (I guess some people don't bother to read them?) both address video overlay and directdraw issues (resulting in system hangs and graphical anomalies). This tells me that either the hardware or the drivers are having conflicts with the PCI and/or the AGP bus. Anyone familiar with how video overlay works knows it stresses the AGP/PCI bus intensely, as thats how an image captured from a PCI card is transferred to the 9700pro. Its no surprise to me, as the 9700pro and its need for bandwidth has some very well-known problems with 8X AGP and fastwrites.

No, ATI hasn't come out and admitted it, but who in their right mind would? They'll just either choose to ignore it (probable), or keep their army of monkeys they call a driver feedback team working around the clock on their next driver release (more likely).

And hendrixfan, I don't disagree that there are people out there with Nvidia problems as well, but I've never come across one that wasn't fixed by one of their plethora of driver releases. The difference I've seen between owning an ATI vs. running an Nvidia card (or even 3dfx for that matter), is that I find myself eagerly anticipating a new driver release (ATI) vs. not bothering to update b/c everything is completely stable (Nvidia). And what I meant by UDA is 2-fold, working across their entire product line (which isn't the case with ATI), but also everything you need is in the same driver release (which isn't the case either).

Unlike some in this thread, I try and keep an open mind and go with the highest performing part available considering price/performance based on my needs, and I've found an Nvidia card in my rig the last 2 generations. Looks like the release of GF FX will make it 3 in a row.

Apoppin, I tweak as much as anyone on these forums, however, I don't consider getting something to WORK tweaking. I consider getting something to WORK BETTER tweaking. Your comments simply re-emphasize my point: their drivers still are far from stable. Probably has to do with the fact that mfgs and game developers make sure their products are compatible with Nvidia, which is why I still consider them the industry leader. I had a 8500 as well, I sold it within a month and haven't regretted it for a second. Its finally performing how it should after a year's time; I'm not willing to give the 9700pro the same grace period when there are other options out there.

As for SpiceDaddy, I'll ignore that comment, but the next time I need help with beep codes, I'll make sure to ask ya...lmao.

Chiz
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Well Chiz, everything you post reinforces my beliefs.

And I say "good luck" if you really think the NV30 isn't going to have its share of "teething" problems.
rolleye.gif


I never have these problems anymore . . . unlike you, I waited nearly a year to 'adopt' my 8500 - and it worked FLAWLESSLY out of the box with my system (with the new drivers, of course). By the time the 9700 is PERFECTED (let me guess, around November - coincidently when its price drops to around $150) and EVERYTHING works - I will be buying one them.

You "early adopters" - and those with "disposable income" - should realize that the bleeding edge of technology is not without its problems despite it's high initial costs.
 

Spicedaddy

Platinum Member
Apr 18, 2002
2,305
77
91
As for SpiceDaddy, I'll ignore that comment, but the next time I need help with beep codes, I'll make sure to ask ya...lmao.


huh, what's your point? I was fixing a friend's computer, I know better than buying Abit boards with Via chipsets... :D


And maybe you do need my help, I have a 9700 that's working perfectly. ;)
 

arcenite

Lifer
Dec 9, 2001
10,660
7
81
Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
As for SpiceDaddy, I'll ignore that comment, but the next time I need help with beep codes, I'll make sure to ask ya...lmao.


huh, what's your point? I was fixing a friend's computer, I know better than buying Abit boards with Via chipsets... :D


And maybe you do need my help, I have a 9700 that's working perfectly. ;)

oooo... you go girlfriend *snap snap snap* uhuh! ^_^

Bill
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
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Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
As for SpiceDaddy, I'll ignore that comment, but the next time I need help with beep codes, I'll make sure to ask ya...lmao.


huh, what's your point? I was fixing a friend's computer, I know better than buying Abit boards with Via chipsets... :D


And maybe you do need my help, I have a 9700 that's working perfectly. ;)

What would you advise? Buying a Dell??

I used to have a glorified gaming rig, I replaced it with an XBox. If I have any problems with it, I'll let you know.

Chiz
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: chizow
Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
As for SpiceDaddy, I'll ignore that comment, but the next time I need help with beep codes, I'll make sure to ask ya...lmao.


huh, what's your point? I was fixing a friend's computer, I know better than buying Abit boards with Via chipsets... :D


And maybe you do need my help, I have a 9700 that's working perfectly. ;)

What would you advise? Buying a Dell??

I used to have a glorified gaming rig, I replaced it with an XBox. If I have any problems with it, I'll let you know.

Chiz
For some people, Dell might be the only way to have that Radeon 9700Pro working perfectly. :p



:D

 

Spicedaddy

Platinum Member
Apr 18, 2002
2,305
77
91
Originally posted by: chizow
Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
As for SpiceDaddy, I'll ignore that comment, but the next time I need help with beep codes, I'll make sure to ask ya...lmao.


huh, what's your point? I was fixing a friend's computer, I know better than buying Abit boards with Via chipsets... :D


And maybe you do need my help, I have a 9700 that's working perfectly. ;)

What would you advise? Buying a Dell??

I used to have a glorified gaming rig, I replaced it with an XBox. If I have any problems with it, I'll let you know.

Chiz


Huh, Inspiron = laptop (if that's what you're talking about)... :confused:


I have an Xbox also, works pretty well. :)
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
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Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
In other news: ATI R350: early details emerge...

Yup, looks like early summer 2003 if it's .15-micron or sometime after that if it's .13-micron. However, if it's just a core clock speed increase (as we suspected), then I can't see it defeating the GeForceFX, though it'll be in the ballpark probably.

That's a comment from someone reputable who we KNOW for a FACT has seen what the GF FX can do. I take that to be good news for those waiting on the GF FX :)
You might not be so stupid to order a GF-FX after all. :Q

Chiz
 

Leon

Platinum Member
Nov 14, 1999
2,215
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You must be really dumb to believe that R350 will debut at $250 pricepoint (which makes it $150 cheaper than FX).






 

308nato

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: Leon
You must be really dumb to believe that R350 will debut at $250 pricepoint (which makes it $150 cheaper than FX).



:)

Why aren't these video card threads in GH being locked or moved to Video where they belong ? There is much redundancy between the forums at the moment and I thought the powers that be were all into saving bandwidth and stuff.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: 308nato
Originally posted by: Leon
You must be really dumb to believe that R350 will debut at $250 pricepoint (which makes it $150 cheaper than FX).



:)

Why aren't these video card threads in GH being locked or moved to Video where they belong ? There is much redundancy between the forums at the moment and I thought the powers that be were all into saving bandwidth and stuff.
Well, although this is a video card topic it also falls under GH.

Besides, it's a lot more "interesting" in GH. :p

rolleye.gif


And if there was that much of an interest in "saving bandwith", OT would be SO gone. :D
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
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There's no capture driver for the 3.0's

Thats BS, get a grip Chiz, there are WDM Version: 6.14.01.6178v1, they've been out for a couple weeks. The rest of your post(s) have a similar degree of factual info.
 

The Sauce

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,741
34
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Originally posted by: 308nato
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: 308nato
Maybe its just me but I find the whole idea of video cards that exist on paper trouncing video cards that no one has seen yet to be...errr...amusing. :)
You are easily amused.
rolleye.gif



Wouldn't you agree the topic's title - "How dumb would you have to be to preorder GF-FX now???" - is a bit provocative?

:D

That sir was my point.

;)

I ordered mine from BB within an hour of it showing up. Get it shipped to my door overnight for free and I get a box of crap the kids can have along with some surprisingly useful coupons. If the card is outstanding, well, I will have it in my rig churning away at ye old pixel production. If it sucks I will be more than happy to run by BB at lunch within the next 30 days for a 100% refund per their most gracious return policy. At that time I will buy something else.

Where dumb fits in I don't know. Worrying how other people spend their disposable income seems to be dumb though.

Where dumb fits in is that the preorder price is probably at least 10% higher than the actual shelf price will be. And if R350 is due out around the same time the price will certainly drop a lot quicker on release than usual. So not only are you buying a card that has never been tested or reviewed for a large chunk of change, but you are overpaying for it as well...with a potentially cheaper, better card less than a month off. There's where the "dumb" fits in.
 

krackato

Golden Member
Aug 10, 2000
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$400 for a video card is insane. You can get an Xbox AND a PS2 for $400. And the extra game potential that you would suddenly have:

PLAYSTATION 2
Virtua Fighter 4
Final Fantasy X, X-2
Final Fantasy XI, XII
Metal Gear Solid 2
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Kingdom Hearts
The Two Towers
SOCOM
Grand Turismo 3
Devil May Cry 1 and 2
Tekken 4
SSX
Madden
Soul Reaver 2
Silent Hill2

XBOX
Tony Hawk 4
Halo
Halo 2
DOA 3
Shenmue 2
James Bond 007: NightFire
Splinter Cell
Soul Caliber 2
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

And you give up all of that for what, a couple of more frames? There's tons more stuff out there, but I can't think of it now. Hey, sure there's the never-ending debate of console vs. pc and all that, but sometimes you've just got to put things into perspective.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: krackato
$400 for a video card is insane. You can get an Xbox AND a PS2 for $400. And the extra game potential that you would suddenly have:


And you give up all of that for what, a couple of more frames? There's tons more stuff out there, but I can't think of it now. Hey, sure there's the never-ending debate of console vs. pc and all that, but sometimes you've just got to put things into perspective.
Some of us just don't care for consoles. :p . . . Here's my perspective:

By the end of this year and all of next (my prediction) the PC will "blow-away" the graphics of the (now outdated) PS2/GC and Xbox.

I also predict a resurgence of PC gaming . . . . at least until Xbox2/GC2 and PS3 even the playing field (graphically) . . . in 2005!

;)

AND you DON'T need to spend $400 to get a Radeon 9700Pro right now . . . in a few months it will be sub-$200 . . . Now how'ya gonna upgrade that Xbox (or put up with "crappy" graphics for a full year compared to the PCs)?

 

krackato

Golden Member
Aug 10, 2000
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I doubt that I'd think the graphics on the Xbox would be crappy in a few years. Outdated sure, but crappy? No.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Man this card is going up for preorder everywhere for $4-large and there has not been a single legitimate review of a shipping sample. WTH is nVidia up to. Could it suck so bad that they are depending on preorders without allowing the card to be reviewed. And then with the R350 rumors of MArch release, 10% gain over FX and cheaper price.... I think i'm going to have to sit on this one for a few more months. My Ti200 still treads water here.

For some people it is important to have the latest and greatest at any cost. Not me though!

 

308nato

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2002
2,674
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Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: 308nato
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: 308nato
Maybe its just me but I find the whole idea of video cards that exist on paper trouncing video cards that no one has seen yet to be...errr...amusing. :)
You are easily amused.
rolleye.gif



Wouldn't you agree the topic's title - "How dumb would you have to be to preorder GF-FX now???" - is a bit provocative?

:D

That sir was my point.

;)

I ordered mine from BB within an hour of it showing up. Get it shipped to my door overnight for free and I get a box of crap the kids can have along with some surprisingly useful coupons. If the card is outstanding, well, I will have it in my rig churning away at ye old pixel production. If it sucks I will be more than happy to run by BB at lunch within the next 30 days for a 100% refund per their most gracious return policy. At that time I will buy something else.

Where dumb fits in I don't know. Worrying how other people spend their disposable income seems to be dumb though.

Where dumb fits in is that the preorder price is probably at least 10% higher than the actual shelf price will be. And if R350 is due out around the same time the price will certainly drop a lot quicker on release than usual. So not only are you buying a card that has never been tested or reviewed for a large chunk of change, but you are overpaying for it as well...with a potentially cheaper, better card less than a month off. There's where the "dumb" fits in.


I have a new rig sans video card sitting on my bench right now. I want a card asap and there is a lot of ands and ifs and probably's in regard to what the price may or may not be and if the R350 is already boxed ready for the shelf. The money doesn't matter anyway at this point. If I was starving I wouldn't be buying a card over $20 anyway.

Like I said, dumb fits in when people want to make decisions for other people about their money.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: krackato
I doubt that I'd think the graphics on the Xbox would be crappy in a few years. Outdated sure, but crappy? No.
For many people outdated=crappy. ;) How many people do you know that are still excited about their PS1 or N64's graphics?

Just think, 2005 will probably see the next gen of game consoles. Well before then, Doom III's engine will be "standard" (along with many others) and the 9700Pro - a "budget" video card in the sub$100 range - will blow-away PS2, GC and even Xbox.

(The then incredible) NV40 and RV400 will be dropping in price (as the then NEXT gen computer parts are out) in 2005 and you will then have another option - to spend $500 on a PS3/GC2 or XboxII and their overpriced games - or simply upgrade your videocard.


 

krackato

Golden Member
Aug 10, 2000
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First off, the only serious console that was ever introduced at even $400 let alone $500 was the Sega Saturn. A serious console hasn't been released for greater than $299 for a long time, and I doubt that trend is going to stop, so I don't know where you're getting this $500 figure.

Secondly, the idea that you could possibly try to argue that it is less expensive to be a pc gamer than a console gamer is ridiculous. You think that new $400 NV40 in 2005 is going to be running at full speed with a 'measly' 3ghz computer from way back in 2003? You think you're not going to have to upgrade the ram? Hell, you'll probably need a new motherboard and a brand new powersupply since the NV40 is going to require nothing less than 350watt psu (which I think the Geforce FX already does).

And thirdly, if you're a gamer, then it's all about the games. And there's just a ton of stuff out there that you can only get for the console. I didn't even cover Nintendo's offerings, like the new 3d Metroid which is garnering huge amounts of praise everywhere, the new Zelda, which is being reported as being a masterpiece that made the previous Zelda on the Nintendo 64 look like a warm up (amazing when you consider that many people considered Zelda 64 the greatest game ever when it was released), and the constant amazing work that Shigeru Miyomoto constantly is spitting out. You just can't get Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Zelda, Mario, Squaresoft, Namco, Sega, and other amazing producers of games except in the console world. (You can't really get Warcraft, Doom, Unreal 2, Half Life, Master of Orion, Diablo, BF1942, and other great "pc type" games on console, so there is definetly a benefit to having both for today's hardcore gamer.)

Hey, you've probably just got a lot more money than I do. If so, more power to you. But the fact is there's alot of great value in the console sector. And when you compare it to the costs of being a PC Gamer, it's a bloody steal.

p.s. Yes, I know that Final Fantasy was eventually released for the PC, and that the Xbox is going to have a version of Doom3 released, and that Diablo was released for the Playstation, but give me a break. I'm not really sure why the hell I'm even arguing this stupid topic with a bunch of phantom's on the internet.
 

The Sauce

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
4,741
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Like I said, dumb fits in when people want to make decisions for other people about their money.
Well IMNSHO, dumb fits in when people knowingly squander money for no good reason. Considering you could have the card at the exact same time for less money without preordering, that counts as squandering money. You may as well roll up a few $20's and smoke them. Maybe that's not dumb to you. I guess if you are a multimillionaire and/or don't have to work for your money and get off on that sort of thing it's ok. For the rest of us it's pretty dumb. Not to mention the fact that you really don't know exactly what it is that you are preordering at this time...could wind up being no better than a GF3. We just don't know.
I personally think it would be hilarious if you preordered a GF-FX for $400 and wound up with a card no better than a 9700 or 4600.
 

308nato

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2002
2,674
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Originally posted by: Snatchface
Like I said, dumb fits in when people want to make decisions for other people about their money.
Well IMNSHO, dumb fits in when people knowingly squander money for no good reason. Considering you could have the card at the exact same time for less money without preordering, that counts as squandering money. You may as well roll up a few $20's and smoke them. Maybe that's not dumb to you. I guess if you are a multimillionaire and/or don't have to work for your money and get off on that sort of thing it's ok. For the rest of us it's pretty dumb. Not to mention the fact that you really don't know exactly what it is that you are preordering at this time...could wind up being no better than a GF3. We just don't know.
I personally think it would be hilarious if you preordered a GF-FX for $400 and wound up with a card no better than a 9700 or 4600.


Ahhh. You resort to class warfare. You being the poor downtrodden hard working frugal type and me being the multi-millionaire doesn't work for a living type and then you wish me ill. You are either what peeps here call a fanboi or its just that you about as sharp as a bagfull of wet mice.

 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
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Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
In other news: ATI R350: early details emerge...

Yup, looks like early summer 2003 if it's .15-micron or sometime after that if it's .13-micron. However, if it's just a core clock speed increase (as we suspected), then I can't see it defeating the GeForceFX, though it'll be in the ballpark probably.

Well, since no one seems to have noticed this the first time I posted it, I'll post it again :)

Please post some links from the Inquirer to prove that statement wrong. Looks like the following scenario won't be taking place:

I personally think it would be hilarious if you preordered a GF-FX for $400 and wound up with a card no better than a 9700 or 4600. - Snatchface

For those not familiar with pre-ordering, you aren't locked into any price, you'll get the card for whatever it retails for upon release. You also get any PM policy on your purchase from the store you purchased it from, which in most cases is 110% and 30 days. Now, if you want to argue the logic of buying retail vs. online, I think thats been beaten like a dead horse, but there certainly are advantages of buying it through a retail B&M, especially if the price difference is small (which it probably will be upon release).

rbv5, you post like you NEF, so please don't talk about factual information. You're fvckin ignorant if you don't think the 9700pro doesn't have problems with video overlay and directdraw, or controlling the PCI/AGP bus. If it didn't have any problems, why has the issue been addressed in EVERY driver release since the 9700pro was released? Why did ATI launch an RMA campaign nothing short of a recall to fix early revision cards not supporting 8X AGP??? As for the latest WDM release, thanks for the heads-up, I was able to find it on an Italian site lol. ATI's strategic placement made it really easy to find. I've already installed it, so I'll make sure to keep everyone updated (so far so good :)).

Chiz