How does one become rich?...and other career choices.

[eflat]

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw

Originally posted by: CitizenDoug

The fact is, the ONLY things you should ever actually see money disappear on are food, utilities, insurance and social expenses. Damn near every other penny you make (after taxes) should hold it's value and increase your worth. You should be able to sell back everything you own and get back all the money you have ever made less your food and other "disposible" expenses. Your house will cost nothing to live in because whatever money is spent on maintainence, taxes and insurance is roughly made up for by your house appreciating in value.

Of course, just about everything that people use disposable income on falls under the category of "social expense". Even so, this "advice" is more easily dispensed than followed. Certainly everyone I know would love every single investment they make to appreciate in value, but that's not a realistic expectation. People talk about house ownership like it's a financial panacea. It's a very good investment, particularly in the current state of the market, but real estate is a market just like any other, and is subject to the same market forces of supply and demand.

And unless you're the sort of person who can literally fix anything and everything that goes wrong with your house, you're not going to make back your maintenance and utility expenses dollar for dollar unless you manage by happenstance to find a location with stellar appreciation that happens to coincide with your selling timeframe. Read just about any literature on home improvement, and you'll see that most major improvements will not yield their full value on resale. No one's going to pay more just because you kept your house working.

Now let me comment on what has to be the absolute stupidest idea that our culture has ever come up with: parents paying for their children's college tuition. What a horrible waste of money. It would make infinitely more sense for parents, instead of throwing that 50-100k away on tuition, to buy their children a very small condo or house that they will own. They will never waste money on rent and could very easily pay their tuition with a part time job. It seems so silly to me to throw away 4 years of you life and $50,000+ on college when all you have after four years of hard work is a piece of paper. Ugh. Makes me sick. And it's so standard that you will nearly drive yourself to suicide figuring out how to get around it (i speak from experience). Come on people.

What sort of part time job you can get with no degree or prior work experience that will pay for, say, $10000 a year tuition and materials? Of course, if you're only looking at a total of $40000 for a four-year degree, then coming up with the money for $50-100K of housing isn't really all that great an idea, either. Particularly if the grad wants to relocate post-graduation.

People talk about rent like it's something to be avoided at all costs. It's true that it's money spent without a tangible return, but people seem to ignore the fact that it's a purchase of convenience. Those who need flexibility in their mobility really don't have the option to continually purchase housing; the lack of equity accumulation in the short-term and closing costs/commissions will eat them up -- and in those cases, renting is actually a more informed choice than home ownership.

Ask a real estate agent and he will tell you that you can expect to spend roughly 1% of the value of your house on maintenance every year (assuming you didn't buy some 100 year old pos house). Add 1% for property tax and .5% for house insurance and you can expect to pay 2.5% of the value of your house to live there each year. You can live just about anywhere and expect your property value to go up a good 2% and probably much more.

And yeah, buying a house at that age definately has it's pros and cons (apparently some people actually enjoy dorm life. :shudder: And if you rent a house with a few buddies rent shouldn't be too significant anyhow.

But what I'll never understand is these people that have great jobs yet still rent for year and year before even thinking of getting a house. They must REALLY love to work.

 

[TommyVercetti]

I can tell you how to save a good amount of money in a short time. Get a job overseas with an American company. They will pay for every living expenses while you are down there. All you have to do is live frugally for 3-4 years. But most of these overseas jobs are management or highly technical jobs, and they require lots of experience.

I know some people who were employed by Shell, Chevron and the likes in countries like Indonesia, Bolivia, Kuwait, etc. They were all in upper management, and were pulling in $80K + overseas bonus. Since food was their only major expense, they saved the majority of it. Imagine saving $50K in a year! $50,000 X 5 years = $250K

 

[rh71]

Good question.

Good answer:

Originally posted by: m2kewl
a gun, a mask, 10 minutes, and 5.0 GT 😉😛

My opinion:
They were either born into it (even high positions in companies) or they had an incredibly successful idea. I drive thru the well-off areas of LI and think to myself... they must know people (prior generations before them were wealthy)... or they became successful at something.

In the end, it's a very small percentile of the population that live up there. $50k/yr. is good to start off (especially nowadays). Seriously, be happy with it for now. Aim for the $100k - $200k/yr mark throughout your career through hard work and success. That's enough to make me happy. I know the million dollar home is not likely attainable in my lifetime... let it drop.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: TommyVercetti
I can tell you how to save a good amount of money in a short time. Get a job overseas with an American company. They will pay for every living expenses while you are down there. All you have to do is live frugally for 3-4 years. But most of these overseas jobs are management or highly technical jobs, and they require lots of experience.

I know some people who were employed by Shell, Chevron and the likes in countries like Indonesia, Bolivia, Kuwait, etc. They were all in upper management, and were pulling in $80K + overseas bonus. Since food was their only major expense, they saved the majority of it. Imagine saving $50K in a year! $50,000 X 5 years = $250K

You don't even need a lot of experience. My brother works for a company that does a lot of overseas work, and they send people with a year of experience (engineering). Some of the people have been there for five years. They can save $30K a year easy.

 

[wyvrn]

It's a fact that there are more new millionaires created every year than who inherited their fortune. While many people think money is passed from generation to generation, it is not always so. Well publicized cases like Sam Walton's kids do not reflect the many parents who chose not to give their money to their children, or the many people that become millionaires only to lose it all and not being able to pass it on. I know several new millionaires that did nothing but invest in real estate and some basic businesses like a donut shop. They saved and invested well enough to be considered rich, but they were not exceptionally smart or lucky. They just worked really really hard and made sound financial choices.

Originally posted by: rh71
Good question.

Good answer:

Originally posted by: m2kewl
a gun, a mask, 10 minutes, and 5.0 GT 😉😛

My opinion:
They were either born into it (even high positions in companies) or they had an incredibly successful idea. I drive thru the well-off areas of LI and think to myself... they must know people (prior generations before them were wealthy)... or they became successful at something.

In the end, it's a very small percentile of the population that live up there. $50k/yr. is good to start off (especially nowadays). Seriously, be happy with it for now. Aim for the $100k - $200k/yr mark throughout your career through hard work and success. That's enough to make me happy. I know the million dollar home is not likely attainable in my lifetime... let it drop.

 

[Raspewtin]

I t think for most people work is not the way to become wealthy, and not just from a tax point of view. Re: taxes though, I have noticed that many individuals focus on generating revenue in wealth building instead of tax efficiency which I find odd. I think this may be by accident b/c often money managers get a % of what they generate instead of a % of what's left at the end of the day. Also rich is relative, on my street $15 million total assets is considered pretty much the low end in total net worth. 🙁

 

[alkemyst]

Millionaires aren't what I was referring to exactly, the millionaire is no longer the 'rich' guy in circles, especially here in south florida. You have got to be 'worth' at least 10Million+ to even be considered for many social functions...of course this is a sort of silent line in the sand.

Today's billionaire is more in line with the Rockenfeller type millionaire of yesteryear.

Still with a million in the bank you could be easily living like you made $50k a year and not have to touch a cent of it earning just a 5% yield on it.

Historically also I believe the real estate market shows a 10% increase per year when averaged out. I am not sure the basis of that statistic, but it was from a financial planner discussing the stock market vs. real estate and why so many investors are now turning to the 'slow' real estate market due to the stock market being very risky lately and low yielding.

 

[CrazyDe1]

"Who said I spent $50k renting? Also I had owned a house before that. Renting is a plus when you do not want to worry about anything...condos work also but the mainenance fees sort of kill the deal."

I figured you said you lived in an apartment for a few years that rent was about 800 a month. 800 * 12 is about 9600 a year. That's money that's going nowhere. Given the choice to rent or live with my parents, I'm living with my parents.

"The mortgage system in america was designed to allow people to get out on their own, esp. now with interest rates so low."

Right, it is designed to do that, but I realized something in the time it has taken me to find a job since I graduated a month ago. After standing in lines at career fairs and only getting a job by sheer luck I never wanted to go through the process of trying to luck your way into an interview. I realized I never wanted to have to rely on someone giving me a job to be able to live. Now, imagine if I lose my job with minimal savings and a mortgage. Then what? This is especially true in my case because I work for a defense contractor with a history of layoffs when contracts run out. So, the way I'm planning it now is to toss all my money into the bank and have my dad manage my money in the stock market and buy a house straight up with no loans, no mortgages. If I lose a job, I have a place to live and rent out to generate income. If I lose a job, I don't lose my home. If I still have a job, I can buy more houses.

"Also I never said everyone, I said almost everyone, there is a difference...however I am sure those that lived with their parents at the time they made their millions (independently, I am not counting inheritance) were living outside their parents home....it's hard to get people to buy in to something when you still live at home."

I would bet not even almost everyone. Inheritance of course doen't count. What does living at home have to do with getting someone into buying into something? There's countless stories of successful companies started out of the parents garage. Bezos was heavily funded by his parents. So you're presenting an idea to some clients do you just randomly mention...oh yeah, by the way I live at home with my parents. It won't even come into play. That and who says you need VC and a business plan to make something work? My goal isn't to have this end all idea that will make me rich. My goal is to take advantage of all my tools and all my resources to generate income. Do you know how many sites out there make 2000-5000 a month? If you have a site that pulls in 7000 raw visitors a day, 2000 unique you're getting $1.50 for each 1000 visitors. Now, you have the initial 10 dollars a day for people visiting your pain page. Then you go with a few other ad companies and you throw these on secondary pages. Assume 15000 raw hits on all your other pages and that's another 20 bucks a day. This is assuming no affiliate revenues(for example game stop affilliate program will pay you 8% of a sale if I remember correctly.) You can have another pop up advertiser at 2.50 per 1000 hits on your main page. So, you're bringing in 50 bucks a day doing nothing assuming you have volunteers managing site content. Imagine 2 or 3 sites like this? Like I said, my goal is to have steady income without relying on an HR person to get me in the door because I know once I get an interview I'm fine. The problem is getting an interview and this frustrates the hell out of me. I'm not getting rich in one huge chunk, I'm doing it utilizing all my resources and living at home is the best choice for me. You don't always have to sell something to get rich😉

"Your final comment explains it all...that's probably the dumbest thing most will hear...Where do you draw your line of 'stealing'? I had mentioned before I'd probably be very rich if I delved into unethical practises, especially in the late 80's when hackers/carders/phreaks were making fortunes at 16-17 years old selling overnighted tires, wheels, computers, phone cards/free long distance, cable, etc."

Where did I mention stealing? I have never stolen anything in my life. Is spamming unethical? There were no laws against it when I did it. It was perfectly legal. The banner companies I used had no rules against self clicking of banners 4 years ago. Of course a few of them are out of business today. I'm not talking about unethical ways of making money. Stealing another person's idea is perfectly legit. Hell, if I ever build up enough wealth I'm looking at restaurants that are successful in other states, businesses that are successful in other states, and building the same thing in my state. It's taking someone's idea and making it your own. How is this unethical? It's called competition. A burger joint like Burger King sees a Mcey D's and decides they can do the same thing but modified a little. They create a burger king. Was MS buying DOS unethical? Most people are rich not because they invent their own ideas but because they see someone else's idea and think they can do it better or suit it to their own needs. Think Starbucks and then all the other coffee companies popping up. Tim Hortons donuts and Krispy Kreme. Same basic idea, different way of doing things...

 

[Ranger X]

You'll never get rich working under someone. It's best to start your own business.

Or you can do what some people do and be a scam artist. 😛

 

[Noirish]

If you ask "HOW-TO" here, that means, you will never be.
Nuff said.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: orangel
If you ask "HOW-TO" here, that means, you will never be.
Nuff said.

That's the dumbest thing I've read all day. I know it's kind of a joke but there's tons of people here with an assload of experience and any knowledge you can take from a group this diverse is valuable. Hell, one guy mentioned that it's dumb to pay for a kid's college education. The way I had it planned was I'd pay their tuition and they'd pay their own rent. Well, after reading this thread I'm definitely going to do it the opposite way and buy a house and provide my kid a place to live in for free that he can have his friends live in too and pay me rent. I'll toss out half the money I collect on rent for his tuition and invest in something instead of tossing money down the drain. This is also kind of what I meant by taking other peoples ideas and using them...

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
"Who said I spent $50k renting? Also I had owned a house before that. Renting is a plus when you do not want to worry about anything...condos work also but the mainenance fees sort of kill the deal."

I figured you said you lived in an apartment for a few years that rent was about 800 a month. 800 * 12 is about 9600 a year. That's money that's going nowhere. Given the choice to rent or live with my parents, I'm living with my parents.

Above you said 3years for $50k, so how by your math does $9600 * 3 = $50k (I would say that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard like you have said now twice in this thread).

"The mortgage system in america was designed to allow people to get out on their own, esp. now with interest rates so low."

Right, it is designed to do that, but I realized something in the time it has taken me to find a job since I graduated a month ago. After standing in lines at career fairs and only getting a job by sheer luck I never wanted to go through the process of trying to luck your way into an interview. I realized I never wanted to have to rely on someone giving me a job to be able to live. Now, imagine if I lose my job with minimal savings and a mortgage. Then what? This is especially true in my case because I work for a defense contractor with a history of layoffs when contracts run out. So, the way I'm planning it now is to toss all my money into the bank and have my dad manage my money in the stock market and buy a house straight up with no loans, no mortgages. If I lose a job, I have a place to live and rent out to generate income. If I lose a job, I don't lose my home. If I still have a job, I can buy more houses.

Well there is unemployment, the idea is to not get into too much house in the beginning. There are also job-loss insurance plans that could help, etc...the thing is in the beginning it's always hard...even if you wait 20 years and finally leave the nest, you will be lacking a lot of skills one gets by living on their own. It's all a trade off. Growing up or growing a bank account. Like I said before it's one thing to be living on your own only to have to stay with someone else during a crisis and family works good for that...but to make it a permanent adult role not so good.

Sure other cultures do just that, they also have their wives live with them at 'home' as pretty much anything goes with adults in those cultures, unfortunately american family life is not like that...most parents are uneasy about sex going on around them, yet alone their own children. Plus entertaining business relations becomes difficult as it's ackward for other adults to be invited to a parent's home....but those may be problems some may not have to worry about.

"Also I never said everyone, I said almost everyone, there is a difference...however I am sure those that lived with their parents at the time they made their millions (independently, I am not counting inheritance) were living outside their parents home....it's hard to get people to buy in to something when you still live at home."

I would bet not even almost everyone. Inheritance of course doen't count. What does living at home have to do with getting someone into buying into something? There's countless stories of successful companies started out of the parents garage. Bezos was heavily funded by his parents. So you're presenting an idea to some clients do you just randomly mention...oh yeah, by the way I live at home with my parents. It won't even come into play. That and who says you need VC and a business plan to make something work? My goal isn't to have this end all idea that will make me rich. My goal is to take advantage of all my tools and all my resources to generate income. Do you know how many sites out there make 2000-5000 a month? If you have a site that pulls in 7000 raw visitors a day, 2000 unique you're getting $1.50 for each 1000 visitors. Now, you have the initial 10 dollars a day for people visiting your pain page. Then you go with a few other ad companies and you throw these on secondary pages. Assume 15000 raw hits on all your other pages and that's another 20 bucks a day. This is assuming no affiliate revenues(for example game stop affilliate program will pay you 8% of a sale if I remember correctly.) You can have another pop up advertiser at 2.50 per 1000 hits on your main page. So, you're bringing in 50 bucks a day doing nothing assuming you have volunteers managing site content. Imagine 2 or 3 sites like this? Like I said, my goal is to have steady income without relying on an HR person to get me in the door because I know once I get an interview I'm fine. The problem is getting an interview and this frustrates the hell out of me. I'm not getting rich in one huge chunk, I'm doing it utilizing all my resources and living at home is the best choice for me. You don't always have to sell something to get rich😉

Buying something no, however, buying a lot of things it's going to be hard without getting help, and people are going to be leary of someone still living at home... Many of the success/garage stories were also not parents garages and borrowing from parents is a whole different thing.

I am well aware of sites generating money, I am also well aware the probably 999 failed for each 1 that succeeds. Many affiliates want way more than 15000 raw hits. Doing this with pron is relatively easy, but not my game.

However that still won't generate the income to buy things like $10M yachts which is what this thread was about. Making $100-500k even isn't even near the same league as that.

"Your final comment explains it all...that's probably the dumbest thing most will hear...Where do you draw your line of 'stealing'? I had mentioned before I'd probably be very rich if I delved into unethical practises, especially in the late 80's when hackers/carders/phreaks were making fortunes at 16-17 years old selling overnighted tires, wheels, computers, phone cards/free long distance, cable, etc."

Where did I mention stealing? I have never stolen anything in my life. Is spamming unethical? There were no laws against it when I did it. It was perfectly legal. The banner companies I used had no rules against self clicking of banners 4 years ago. Of course a few of them are out of business today. I'm not talking about unethical ways of making money. Stealing another person's idea is perfectly legit. Hell, if I ever build up enough wealth I'm looking at restaurants that are successful in other states, businesses that are successful in other states, and building the same thing in my state. It's taking someone's idea and making it your own. How is this unethical? It's called competition. A burger joint like Burger King sees a Mcey D's and decides they can do the same thing but modified a little. They create a burger king. Was MS buying DOS unethical? Most people are rich not because they invent their own ideas but because they see someone else's idea and think they can do it better or suit it to their own needs. Think Starbucks and then all the other coffee companies popping up. Tim Hortons donuts and Krispy Kreme. Same basic idea, different way of doing things...

[/quote]

It was still stealing, you knew it was a loophole...exploits are still unethical whether or not there is a law against it. If you want to exploit people and/or steal money is also easy. It's what you can live with and how you want to be known.

 

[freebee]

Having re-thought many of my original motivations for wealth...in addition to receiving some rather upsetting news today, I've begun to see how valuable life is...in the context of living and enjoying each day.

Some time ago, while being involved in a relationship, I was somewhat shocked to find that i had no interest in pursuing material goods, life was simply about being there, each passing hour was savored and appreciated. In some ways, i felt very rich....

But, some things were not meant to be....and with a passionate bitterness, I approach the world only to plunder..to take back forcefully, for which i felt i was wronged. This is about trying to regain respect within the social structure...and defiance to those individuals who have abandoned me in my darkest hour. To one day look back on these people and say..."this is who you gave up, this is what could have been..."

I think I should get a dog.

 

[BatmanNate]

If you were top 1% material, you wouldn't have to ask us how to get there. 🙂 GL on your job.

 

[Turkish]

Heh might sound funny, but thinking/planning is a critical process in investing. I came out with a plan that will easily bring me $270k a year. I am pretty much sure it will work, but who knows, maybe I am missing a small detail and this can hunt me down... well goodluck.

 

[eflat]

Originally posted by: freebee

I think I should get a dog.

Now there is a good investment. They are cute AND the attract cute girls :0

 

[CrazyDe1]

Above you said 3years for $50k, so how by your math does $9600 * 3 = $50k (I would say that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard like you have said now twice in this thread).

I exagerrated slightly. I still wouldn't want to throw 30k of my money in 3 years in order to live in an apartment. What is the problem with living at home as long as your parents don't mind? Everyone has this jacked up idea of what is "socially acceptable." That 30k that I save could easily be 150k with the way my dad does in the stock market. 30k saved is way more valuable to me than some BS idea of "I'm now independent." I know I can live independently. I know i'm responsible and have what it takes to live alone(hell, I paid and figured all the bills out for my roommates for 3 years). I could care less how someone sees me right now as long as I know that in my mind I have my sh1t together.

Well there is unemployment, the idea is to not get into too much house in the beginning. There are also job-loss insurance plans that could help, etc...the thing is in the beginning it's always hard...even if you wait 20 years and finally leave the nest, you will be lacking a lot of skills one gets by living on their own. It's all a trade off. Growing up or growing a bank account. Like I said before it's one thing to be living on your own only to have to stay with someone else during a crisis and family works good for that...but to make it a permanent adult role not so good.

Sure other cultures do just that, they also have their wives live with them at 'home' as pretty much anything goes with adults in those cultures, unfortunately american family life is not like that...most parents are uneasy about sex going on around them, yet alone their own children. Plus entertaining business relations becomes difficult as it's ackward for other adults to be invited to a parent's home....but those may be problems some may not have to worry about.

Yeah, I'm going to RELY on the government and unemployment to bail me out because it's not "socially acceptable" to live at home. Yeah, I'm gonna RELY on job-loss insurance plans to help. I'm not going to wait 20 years. I'm leaving my parents house in 3-4 years. In that amount of time I can save up at the least, with investments 200k. Realistically, something like 750k. On top of this, I OWN my house immediately and if I have a job I buy more houses which I can sell if I'm jobless. My main means of survival are not tied to my job, or unemployment or jobless insurance. I'm not still paying mortgage payments. I don't EVER want to RELY on anyone else in order to survive. That means I dont' want to rely on my job, my parents, an HR person. If I can gain an advantage over someone by living at home I'm going to do it. This is analogous to how I got through college. I didn't have to take out student loans becuase my parents paid HALF of my educations. They paid tuiton, I paid housing. By your reasoning, you would deny all assisstance from your parents and take out student loans. If my parents are nice enough, and yes, I greatly appreciate them, that they will pay half of my education, who am I not to take advantage of my natural given advantage. If you have a chance to get ahead why wouldn't you take advantage of it? My parents WANT me to stay at home. I've discussed it with them and they will take out equity out of their paid off house so that I can buy my own house. However, I realize that my job isn't stable and that it would be wiser to stay at home and save money. I told them this and they think that's a good idea. If you have a chance to gain an advantage on somoene, why not do it? I have a chance to have a million dollars by the time I'm 25. Again, this isn't a role I plan to take for the rest of my life. I just plan to take advantage of it because i have the opportunity and to not take advantage would be straight retarded. If someone offers you an opportunity to get ahead at no cost I don't see any reason not to take advantage. Another example of this is that when I bought my car, I wasn't old enough to own a car. So my parents put the car under their name for me and I wrote them a check for it. To this day, it's still under their name but it's my car. This has its advantages in that if I get a photo radar ticket, it's not them on the photo radar and they send in their drivers liscense and no one gets a ticket. Yes, I could transfer the car to my name because I bought it, but as long as my parents don't mind and there are no real advantages to transfer it over, why do it? Oh right...it's more impressive "socially" to own your own car. Whatever.

As for your second point, I don't want to get married until I'm at least 27. For one, I hangout with people way too much and go out and have fun. I won't get married or have a girlfriend living with me until I know I'm matture enough to handle it. I mean, what am I gonna do now? Sorry honey, I'm gonna go get drunk w/ my boys. Sorry honey, I'm gonna hangout w/ this girl I've known for years. Yes, my parents are uneasy about sex. They don't think I've ever had sex. Would I have sex in their house? No. Would I even bring a girl back? Probably not. I can deal with this though in order to accomplish my goals. Hell, if I want to mess around there's always the girl's place and always my car or renting a hotel room. Do you invite business relation people to your house???? My uncle is pretty high up management at a reputable company and he has NEVER had anyone related to business at his house. Business takes place either as presentations or over a dinner or lunch. All I'm saying is I have been through trying to get a job for a month and I don't like it. I don't like the whole send out a resume thing. I don't like waiting in lines at career fairs with 1000's of people hoping for an opportunity at something you know you could do. If a girl isn't down with me living at home then that's her problem. She's probably not the type of girl I'd be attracted to to begin with. This is my plan. I don't want to RELY on anyone, this includes my parents. If I were to RELY on anyone it would be my parents, and that is what I'm doing now. I know my parents will support almost anything I do. I've seen what happened to my dad. He was one of the best people at USWest before it got bought out by Qwest and has a masters degree. He can't get a job because he's too old and his skillset is too specialized. He's doing ok because they paid their house off 10 years ago and he invests well. I don't want to be in trouble if I lose a job.

I am well aware of sites generating money, I am also well aware the probably 999 failed for each 1 that succeeds. Many affiliates want way more than 15000 raw hits. Doing this with pron is relatively easy, but not my game.

However that still won't generate the income to buy things like $10M yachts which is what this thread was about. Making $100-500k even isn't even near the same league as that.

Do you not realize that pooling all your resources and investing wisely will yield a lot of money? Sure, I won't be able to afford a 10M yacht right away. Give me 10-15 years. I'm not hoping I come up with some BS idea to make me rich or become a CEO. I have a plan that's within my means and reasonable that I can accomplish. Will I be able to afford a 10M dollar yacht? Maybe, maybe not. But that's not my goal. My goal is to become financially independent without having to depend on anyone and having a steady income without having a job. Good investing with enough money saved up will eventually make it so a 10M yacht is possible...with a little bit of luck. You say many affiliates want more than 15000 raw hits a day. In my experience, the only company that requires this is doubleclick. For my purposes, the companies I go with are fine. No, I don't do pr0n either. The site I run, and am working on aren't pr0n based at all.

It was still stealing, you knew it was a loophole...exploits are still unethical whether or not there is a law against it. If you want to exploit people and/or steal money is also easy. It's what you can live with and how you want to be known.

Yes, it was a loophole. I don't mind taking advantage of loopholes to a certain extent. I won't steal, I won't deliberately hurt someone. If I can take advantage of a loophole such as stackable coupons or clicking my own banners I will. If a company is stupid enough to not take into account all weaknesses and strengths in its policy I will take advantage as long as it's within the law. I don't want to be known, I want to be comfortable and enjoy what I'm doing without dependency on anyone else. I took advantage of a liberal staples pricematch policy. I took advantage of office max's 155% pricematch policy to get free merchandise at multiple stores. To each his own. I don't even care if someone sells drugs for a living. Would I do it? No. If selling drugs became legal though, you bet, I'd be the first one to create a company to sell drugs.

 

[JeffSpicoli]

Money can't buy happiness. But you could park your yacht next to it.

 

[eflat]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
That 30k that I save could easily be 150k with the way my dad does in the stock market.

Well I hate to tell you this but your dad also sells cocaine :Q Just kidding, but I don't see how anybody could get that kind of return legally.


Your plans are not unlike my own. Unfortunately I don't get along with my father too well, so living at home isn't really an option. So next year I plan to mortgage a small condo for about 50k which I should be able to pay off in a year and then maybe rent that and get a bigger house to live in and rent rooms to people until it's paid off a few years later. After that I should have enough to buy some farmland and start a rural hostel or something along those and be able to live out in the country, have plenty of time to travel around the world and take my music seriously. Ahh that will be the life 🙂

 

[motolog]

You don't get rich thinking rationally or doing the right thing....you get rich doing something against the grain and different. You have to go down that path no one else has yet or get further down one someone else started.

 

[LandRover]

Do you actually expect to get rich from information given in ATOT?

If you have happiness and your health, you're already "rich".

"Never be able to own that 100+k car or live in the 30million house"
I feel really sorry for you if you think you need all that. I guess a 1 million dollar house and a 50K car just wouldn't cut it, eh? Shesh... Grow up. :disgust:

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Dat
Its almost completely pure luck.

Granted if you are uber genius you may be able to become rich but thats not enough. You need to have the right mix of uber genius and business savy or just dumb luck. :>

I remember seeing the guy (fairly young) who built the "girls gone wild" franchise and is now like filthy rich.

Actually, this is about as completely wrong as you could get. Luck is being born into a wealthy family. 90% of the people that are very wealthy will have one thing in common: they are driven by their obsessions. Sure, what might be perceived as luck (opportunity) comes into play on various occasions but no amount of luck will make you rich unless you are prepared to do what it takes when opportunity comes along. And BTW, you will never be rich working for someone else.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Everyone has this jacked up idea of what is "socially acceptable." That 30k that I save could easily be 150k with the way my dad does in the stock market. 30k saved is way more valuable to me than some BS idea of "I'm now independent." I know I can live independently. I know i'm responsible and have what it takes to live alone(hell, I paid and figured all the bills out for my roommates for 3 years). I could care less how someone sees me right now as long as I know that in my mind I have my sh1t together.

When you say everyone has this idea....do you mean you are the only one right? Seriouly, if your only goal is money then no problem stay at home forever, but if you like dating and women/guys I would say a high percentage would walk on someone mentioning they live at home. The thing is right now no one is betting on the market which previously could yield 40-60% on average....they are going to real estate for the meager, yet almost guaranteed 10% yield. If your dad is changing $30k to $150k in three years easily you should dump every penny into that, thats about a consistant 70% yield and if that's easily done I think he'd be the richest financial planner in the country.

Yeah, I'm going to RELY on the government and unemployment to bail me out because it's not "socially acceptable" to live at home. Yeah, I'm gonna RELY on job-loss insurance plans to help. I'm not going to wait 20 years. I'm leaving my parents house in 3-4 years. In that amount of time I can save up at the least, with investments 200k. Realistically, something like 750k. On top of this, I OWN my house immediately and if I have a job I buy more houses which I can sell if I'm jobless. My main means of survival are not tied to my job, or unemployment or jobless insurance. I'm not still paying mortgage payments. I don't EVER want to RELY on anyone else in order to survive. That means I dont' want to rely on my job, my parents, an HR person. If I can gain an advantage over someone by living at home I'm going to do it. This is analogous to how I got through college. I didn't have to take out student loans becuase my parents paid HALF of my educations. They paid tuiton, I paid housing. By your reasoning, you would deny all assisstance from your parents and take out student loans. If my parents are nice enough, and yes, I greatly appreciate them, that they will pay half of my education, who am I not to take advantage of my natural given advantage. If you have a chance to get ahead why wouldn't you take advantage of it? My parents WANT me to stay at home. I've discussed it with them and they will take out equity out of their paid off house so that I can buy my own house. However, I realize that my job isn't stable and that it would be wiser to stay at home and save money. I told them this and they think that's a good idea. If you have a chance to gain an advantage on somoene, why not do it? I have a chance to have a million dollars by the time I'm 25. Again, this isn't a role I plan to take for the rest of my life. I just plan to take advantage of it because i have the opportunity and to not take advantage would be straight retarded. If someone offers you an opportunity to get ahead at no cost I don't see any reason not to take advantage. Another example of this is that when I bought my car, I wasn't old enough to own a car. So my parents put the car under their name for me and I wrote them a check for it. To this day, it's still under their name but it's my car. This has its advantages in that if I get a photo radar ticket, it's not them on the photo radar and they send in their drivers liscense and no one gets a ticket. Yes, I could transfer the car to my name because I bought it, but as long as my parents don't mind and there are no real advantages to transfer it over, why do it? Oh right...it's more impressive "socially" to own your own car. Whatever.

Unemployment has nothing to do with the government other than the limits an employer is responsible for, it's a benefit your previous employer has to cough up should they lay you off. Very few of the 'rich' pay cash for their homes, it doesn't make sense with the low interest rates, especially if you are yielding 75% on your money your dad can do for you. I also said loans and money from your parents is a lot different than living and relying on them. Getting these type of gifts is normal and many of the even very successful accepted gift money even if it was a trinket since it makes their parents happy. I am not saying to write off your parents, but despite how much they want you at home, they would also like to get back to their own lives without children/roommates most of the time, but they are being 'nice'.

Your whole discussion on loopholes, explotations and the quote above "If you have a chance to gain an advantage on somoene, why not do it?" defines your personality and I am sure it is clear to everyone now. If you don't succeed this way it'd be a miracle.

As for your second point, I don't want to get married until I'm at least 27. For one, I hangout with people way too much and go out and have fun. I won't get married or have a girlfriend living with me until I know I'm matture enough to handle it. I mean, what am I gonna do now? Sorry honey, I'm gonna go get drunk w/ my boys. Sorry honey, I'm gonna hangout w/ this girl I've known for years. Yes, my parents are uneasy about sex. They don't think I've ever had sex. Would I have sex in their house? No. Would I even bring a girl back? Probably not. I can deal with this though in order to accomplish my goals. Hell, if I want to mess around there's always the girl's place and always my car or renting a hotel room. Do you invite business relation people to your house???? My uncle is pretty high up management at a reputable company and he has NEVER had anyone related to business at his house. Business takes place either as presentations or over a dinner or lunch. All I'm saying is I have been through trying to get a job for a month and I don't like it. I don't like the whole send out a resume thing. I don't like waiting in lines at career fairs with 1000's of people hoping for an opportunity at something you know you could do. If a girl isn't down with me living at home then that's her problem. She's probably not the type of girl I'd be attracted to to begin with. This is my plan. I don't want to RELY on anyone, this includes my parents. If I were to RELY on anyone it would be my parents, and that is what I'm doing now. I know my parents will support almost anything I do. I've seen what happened to my dad. He was one of the best people at USWest before it got bought out by Qwest and has a masters degree. He can't get a job because he's too old and his skillset is too specialized. He's doing ok because they paid their house off 10 years ago and he invests well. I don't want to be in trouble if I lose a job.

Do you also have an age when you will have kids and how many? These are high school demarcations, when you become an adult you realize things happen sometimes.

How many women are going to go for sex in a car on a regular basis, and a few nights a month in a hotel will quickly add up to an average apartment rent. Many girls have a problem 'going back to their place' especially in the beginning due to stalkers and the like...but that's assuming high profile / sexual women not the wallflowers. Regardless after a while they are going to want to come to your place...but again if you are dating 'girls' they may be happy with the car/truck bed and I am sure their boyfriends have told them 'in 5 years I will have a million bucks and buy you a double wide' 🙂

When you work for yourself you usually need to do entertaining, and unless you are getting an office, you work at home...somethings cannot be discussed in public and require somewhere private. Presentations are fine in a conference room in a regular company, but working for yourself you usually lack a 'building'.

Again if your dad is yielding 75% on his investments easily, why even worry about work?

Do you not realize that pooling all your resources and investing wisely will yield a lot of money? Sure, I won't be able to afford a 10M yacht right away. Give me 10-15 years. I'm not hoping I come up with some BS idea to make me rich or become a CEO. I have a plan that's within my means and reasonable that I can accomplish. Will I be able to afford a 10M dollar yacht? Maybe, maybe not. But that's not my goal. My goal is to become financially independent without having to depend on anyone and having a steady income without having a job. Good investing with enough money saved up will eventually make it so a 10M yacht is possible...with a little bit of luck. You say many affiliates want more than 15000 raw hits a day. In my experience, the only company that requires this is doubleclick. For my purposes, the companies I go with are fine. No, I don't do pr0n either. The site I run, and am working on aren't pr0n based at all.

That is the problem you hijacked freebee's thread and turned it into your own, I think you live in a world where you believe you are the center and everyone else is to cater to you. We were talking big bucks, not merely covering normal living expenses and having some spare coin to throw around.

Yes, it was a loophole. I don't mind taking advantage of loopholes to a certain extent. I won't steal, I won't deliberately hurt someone. If I can take advantage of a loophole such as stackable coupons or clicking my own banners I will. If a company is stupid enough to not take into account all weaknesses and strengths in its policy I will take advantage as long as it's within the law. I don't want to be known, I want to be comfortable and enjoy what I'm doing without dependency on anyone else. I took advantage of a liberal staples pricematch policy. I took advantage of office max's 155% pricematch policy to get free merchandise at multiple stores. To each his own. I don't even care if someone sells drugs for a living. Would I do it? No. If selling drugs became legal though, you bet, I'd be the first one to create a company to sell drugs.

Again this defines your ethics....the corporate raider / scamster. Most smart scams are totally legal, so I guess that is something else you will delve into.

I think as you enter your mid-20's / early 30's you will see your vision was the same as all these others before you and many things don't scale well or the idea was already attempted and failed.

But hey, if you can put together $750k-1M in 3-4 years I'd stay at home...but I think I have heard many others say that too.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

unless you are especially talented at making money (< .3% of population), just go with the flow, and there's a chance you'll get wealthy at some point. People often don't understand that random distribution of opportunities allows a signifigant number of people who would otherwise earn in the top 20% range to jump into the top ~1% range.

check out "fooled by randomness" for some idea of probability theory behind the distribution of wealth-

 

[alkemyst]

exactly 🙂 that's probably were the two cliches "Being in the right place at the right time" and "Being a day late and a dollar short" came from 😉

It would make for a cool story to hear about all those people, that in a split second, went from comfortable to ultra rich.