How does one become rich?...and other career choices.

[Mani]

First off, the reason why most businesses fail is because they are run by idiots (think Cyberwings). Don't let that discourage you.

And to the people dumping on this guy for living at home, give him a break. He can obviously take care of himself if he lived by himself for 2 years, he's just capitalizing on an easy way to get free food, bills, and rent.

 

[eflat]

Originally posted by: spidey07
hmmmm,

So leaching off ones parents is a good thing? Do tell....

Unless of course there is a sh!tload of family money to start one's business upon I strongly disagree.

Yes it is a wonderful thing and it's a shame that more people don't posess the common sense that CrazyD1 does. He has direction and he has a very good plan and he is only living with his parents in order to have a much greater degree of independence than 99% of people will ever have before they are sixty years old.

Would you rather be a slave to your landlord? Personally I think you are a lot more independent living with your parents than you are paying rent. Don't tell me you have a 50k job when you are paying 20k to rent or mortgage your house - you have a 30k job. Oh and lets add in the car payment and whatever other depreciating goods you are wasting your money on. The fact is, the average person THROWS AWAY over 50% of their income. And that's very conservative. If you don't believe me, do a search on "cost of living" on the forum and see for yourself. It really does amaze me.

The fact is, the ONLY things you should ever actually see money disappear on are food, utilities, insurance and social expenses. Damn near every other penny you make (after taxes) should hold it's value and increase your worth. You should be able to sell back everything you own and get back all the money you have ever made less your food and other "disposible" expenses. Your house will cost nothing to live in because whatever money is spent on maintainence, taxes and insurance is roughly made up for by your house appreciating in value.


Now let me comment on what has to be the absolute stupidest idea that our culture has ever come up with: parents paying for their children's college tuition. What a horrible waste of money. It would make infinitely more sense for parents, instead of throwing that 50-100k away on tuition, to buy their children a very small condo or house that they will own. They will never waste money on rent and could very easily pay their tuition with a part time job. It seems so silly to me to throw away 4 years of you life and $50,000+ on college when all you have after four years of hard work is a piece of paper. Ugh. Makes me sick. And it's so standard that you will nearly drive yourself to suicide figuring out how to get around it (i speak from experience). Come on people.

 

[gigapet]

I read somewhere that the average millionaire failed something like his first 10 attempts before finally finding the successful idea or business venture that made him wealthy. Thats the average so some may have failed 20 times others 3 or 4. Bottomline it seems like a strong work ethic, perseverance, no fear of failure and goals are all you need to be wealthy.

sky is the llimit

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Originally posted by: CitizenDoug

The fact is, the ONLY things you should ever actually see money disappear on are food, utilities, insurance and social expenses. Damn near every other penny you make (after taxes) should hold it's value and increase your worth. You should be able to sell back everything you own and get back all the money you have ever made less your food and other "disposible" expenses. Your house will cost nothing to live in because whatever money is spent on maintainence, taxes and insurance is roughly made up for by your house appreciating in value.

Of course, just about everything that people use disposable income on falls under the category of "social expense". Even so, this "advice" is more easily dispensed than followed. Certainly everyone I know would love every single investment they make to appreciate in value, but that's not a realistic expectation. People talk about house ownership like it's a financial panacea. It's a very good investment, particularly in the current state of the market, but real estate is a market just like any other, and is subject to the same market forces of supply and demand.

And unless you're the sort of person who can literally fix anything and everything that goes wrong with your house, you're not going to make back your maintenance and utility expenses dollar for dollar unless you manage by happenstance to find a location with stellar appreciation that happens to coincide with your selling timeframe. Read just about any literature on home improvement, and you'll see that most major improvements will not yield their full value on resale. No one's going to pay more just because you kept your house working.

Now let me comment on what has to be the absolute stupidest idea that our culture has ever come up with: parents paying for their children's college tuition. What a horrible waste of money. It would make infinitely more sense for parents, instead of throwing that 50-100k away on tuition, to buy their children a very small condo or house that they will own. They will never waste money on rent and could very easily pay their tuition with a part time job. It seems so silly to me to throw away 4 years of you life and $50,000+ on college when all you have after four years of hard work is a piece of paper. Ugh. Makes me sick. And it's so standard that you will nearly drive yourself to suicide figuring out how to get around it (i speak from experience). Come on people.

What sort of part time job you can get with no degree or prior work experience that will pay for, say, $10000 a year tuition and materials? Of course, if you're only looking at a total of $40000 for a four-year degree, then coming up with the money for $50-100K of housing isn't really all that great an idea, either. Particularly if the grad wants to relocate post-graduation.

People talk about rent like it's something to be avoided at all costs. It's true that it's money spent without a tangible return, but people seem to ignore the fact that it's a purchase of convenience. Those who need flexibility in their mobility really don't have the option to continually purchase housing; the lack of equity accumulation in the short-term and closing costs/commissions will eat them up -- and in those cases, renting is actually a more informed choice than home ownership.

 

[rudder]

Come up with a good scam like coral calcium or something along those lines. Hell even that penis enlargement cream stuff made one company 74 million dollars before the government stepped in.

 

[CChaos]

Anyone who tells you there is something wrong with living at home and saving money is a fool.

 

[Jzero]

You should be able to sell back everything you own and get back all the money you have ever made less your food and other "disposible" expenses.

What are you talking about? Nothing, but NOTHING retains 100% of it's value. A few rare items which may happen to be rare or collectible, but I can think of not one thing in my tiny apartment which I will be able to resell for 100% of what I paid for it. It's a simple fact of my kitchen table is now 2 years old and has 2 years' worth of use on it. How do you expect to accomplish this?

 

[heartsurgeon]

actually you have the wrong definition of rich...
what your espousing is a rather youthful idea of wealth...owning lots of "things"
as you get older, this fascination with things diminishes...
real wealth is having enough resources (cash) so that you don't have to work or do anything you don't want to...security
as you get older..you value unique "experiences" over owning stuff.
the problem with owning lots of "stuff" is that you end up having to maintain it, insure it, keep it looking nice...it ends up costing
a fortune just to maintaion the status quo..it wit you have to keep making tons of cash just to maitain your lifestyle...
you end up with less security because if your income drops you suddenly face large negative cash flow to maintain your "stuff"

and trust me, there is never enough money in your model of "wealth" to feel comfortable....

now if your taking about obscene amounts of wealth....you've either got to inherit that, or do something that isn't really legal

 

[fizmeister]

Getting an MBA is worthless unless you're getting it from a top 10 institution (average starting salary = $120,000!).

Oh, and good call on living at home. That's what I would have done.

 

[pukemon]

Originally posted by: freebee
Since coming out of college more than a year ago, i've landed a semi-decent job with great benefits and making about 50k a year. With living at home, eating at home, wearing old clothes and having no gf at the moment, means i can save an enormous amount of my income.

However, despite a rosy financial situation that many would envy, I began to realize that no matter how far I go in my current position, I'll never be rich. Never be able to own that 100+k car or live in the 30million house. Its simply not attainable despite frugal living and careful savings. I was estimating even with an upper, upper class income of 250k a year and avg. investments, one simply never makes enough to comfortably afford a 10 million dollar yacht + multiple homes, etc.

So the question becomes, does this mean i should ditch everything, try and start my own business and pray for success?...or perhaps invest several years of my life/money into obtaining an MBA....hoping for a coveted CEO position 20 years later?.......

Okay so I've read the entire thread insofar, and it seems to be that your goal is life is to have lots and lots of money. To be blunt, it seems to be fueled by greed. Is this what makes you happy? If so, by all means go for it, just understand the risks involved. IMNSHO, your far off goals seem a bit lofty, but I don't know you, maybe you'll be one of the guys on the Forbes Richest people list further down the line...

 

[wyvrn]

In many cultures, the parents ENCOURAGE "leaching" off of them so that they will be more stable when they break from the family home. In America, the separation is typically done earlier than many other cultures. We are a nation that values independence, afterall. But America != the world. I happen to live with an Asian family where living at home is perfectly acceptable, and it is discouraged to move away too early because if you run into financial problems (lose job, get sick, etc..), then you will probably be moving back in anyway. In their view, might as well take the time to set yourself up well, and then take the leap into independence. Life continues on well after 25 years, there is plenty of time for independence. Your view may differ and that is fine. Just be aware there are entire groups of people that disagree with YOUR BELIEF also 😉

hmmmm,

So leaching off ones parents is a good thing? Do tell....

Unless of course there is a sh!tload of family money to start one's business upon I strongly disagree.

 

[Miramonti]

buy low, buy lower, buy even lower...

sell QUICK!! 😀

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: TommyVercetti
Might I suggest the book called "The Millionaire Next Door". Good read.

Boy, this is the second good suggestion by an ATOTer I have seen today.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
the problem with owning lots of "stuff" is that you end up having to maintain it, insure it, keep it looking nice...it ends up costing
a fortune just to maintain the status quo..it wit you have to keep making tons of cash just to maitain your lifestyle...
you end up with less security because if your income drops you suddenly face large negative cash flow to maintain your "stuff"

That's right. You don't own stuff, it owns you.

A million-dollar home means landscapers, high utility bills, huge taxes, etc. Multiple homes means more of the same. A big yacht means high maintenance costs, dock fees, fuel costs, etc. Oh, and owning more stuff means more people would want to help themselves to your stuff, so you need security systems, insurance, and on and on. Plus, people who lust for stuff tend to keep wanting more, making the ongoing costs even higher.

I knew a woman whose teenage son was crossing a busy highway when he was hit in the head by a truck's side mirror and seriously injured. She cashed in for about a half-million dollars, plus collected double on the medical bills (this was before coordination of benefits, so she was legally entitled to turn the huge medical bills into both her insurance and her husband's) for another $300,000.

About 6-7 years later it was almost all gone, with the exception of the money that was in trust for the son's future medical care. They bought a vacation condo and later sold it because the maintenance fees were too high. They bought a big boat and sold it because it required too much upkeep. They bought a farm and sold it because it cost too much to keep running. Of course, every transaction was a huge loser, because they bought on a whim (paid too much) and sold in desperation (took the first offer just to get out of it).

But for those few years, they were so happy to be playing "rich person". They could have had it forever, but thought that being rich meant buying everything in sight.

 

[NoReMoRsE]

What do the following terms mean:

-Equity
-Roth IRA
-401k

Sorry, they might be American terms, and I'm Canadian. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[kranky]

Equity means how much of your home you own. It's the value of your home minus what you still owe on the mortgage.

401K and Roth IRA are ways to save money while avoiding taxes. I think in Canada it's an RRSP or something like that.

 

[LS20]

Originally posted by: fizmeister
Getting an MBA is worthless unless you're getting it from a top 10 institution (average starting salary = $120,000!).

this is so wrong

 

[NoReMoRsE]

Originally posted by: kranky
Equity means how much of your home you own. It's the value of your home minus what you still owe on the mortgage. 401K and Roth IRA are ways to save money while avoiding taxes. I think in Canada it's an RRSP or something like that.

Ah, thanks! Yeah, it is known as RRSP in Canada.

I'm just starting to learn about these things; I never really thought about them before (I'm 19).

 

[BD2003]

Yeah, to me it seems as if your entire life revolves around greed. And if thats the way it is, you are never ever going to be totally happy. You think your lust is going to end when you get that 10 million yacht? No way, youll get it and the next week youll be lusting after the 20 million model.

Strap yourself in, because unless you change your ways you are going to have a rough ride. Either:
1)You'll never be as rich as you want, and will die unhappy, because you never realized that life isnt about money, and will always long for something you never had. Youll despise the world, and be jealous of everyone else who is rich, trying hard to figure out the difference between you and them.
2)If youre lucky, youll get rich, but it will never ever be enough. What you want will always be two steps ahead of you. Youll be like an idiot bunny chasing after a carrot on a stick. Youll probably have devoted your life to making money, and never finding the time to enjoy your money. Whatever wealth you have amassed will be a new baseline of poor to you. Maybe youll get a wife that will marry you for your money, and then drop your ass and run off with half your sh*t. Or some thug with the same mentality as you, always wanting what he cant have, instead of appreciating what he can, will rob you and shoot you in the mouth.

Dont get me wrong, I know some happy rich people, but they are rich because theyre happy, and not happy cause theyre rich.

Think about it, what the average middle or lower class person possesses is far more than some of the richest people in the 15th century. Id like to think the nobles were living it up back then, but due to an unfortunate facet of our psychology, most of us will never be satisfied with what we have.

 

[alkemyst]

I don't think it was ever legal, even before coordination of benefits to turn the same bills in twice, it may have been common and overlooked, but that is why the process changed.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

I can see moving home to get back on one's feet after career problems, school, bad breakups, etc...but as an adult in the US it's not a socially acceptable thing even with the cases I mentioned. I am at home now, after getting laid off and a 'spring cleaning' of my apartment done by my ex fiancee....my parents are cool as hell but I need to get out of here as soon as possible. It's a huge house, my bedroom here is almost as big as my apartment living area, but I still have to deal with most of my stuff in storage...not being able to just lounge around / do things here like my own place, etc, if I wasn't in a major relationship I would not be able to handle it. Anyone pulling in 50K+ living at home is a little ridiculous, unless their living quarters are a separate apartment type deal. Most of the time if someone owns the residence it is said "He let his parents move in with him" or "His parents live with him", I knew a guy that did have a nice income and claimed this...at a dinner it came out when someone commented about how nice it was they moved in with their son...his father was not too happy apparently with him living there as it was, and after hearing that supposedly it was the son being the provider snapped...some after that he got his own apartment, but still told people 'he bought their house'.

One thing almost every person that became rich did was leave home at an early age, despite the suffering it caused them. You don't get rich thinking rationally or doing the right thing....you get rich doing something against the grain and different. You have to go down that path no one else has yet or get further down one someone else started.

q]

This is the dumbest statement I've heard. Yeah, that's great, you dumped a maybe 50,000 of your income over 3 years into renting an apartment. The way I can get my money invested that 50,000 is worth a whole lot more to me than getting a crap apartment. Yeah, I'll swallow my pride. If my parents are nice enough to not mind me living at home and I'm helping them out around then what's the problem? The problem is this not "socially accetable" crap. I could care less what's socially acceptable. Hell, my parents even offered me equity out of their home so I could buy my own place. Although I'd rent it to my friends and collect off them, I'm not ready to spend 500 bucks a month on a mortgage especially being not sure that I will continue to have a job. Why not live at home and save up 100k? When I buy my own house or condo it will be paid off almost fully.

Everyone who became rich left home at an early age...that's just an idiotic statement. I'm sure some did but everyone? You're also failing to take into account how much of an advantage being able to live at home is. I don't care if everyone who made it big left home early, I can also make it big but I have an advantage early because I can save much more money living at home. I don't have to worry about throwing money into a black hole.

That being said, the real way to get rich is to steal someone else's idea and make money off it. Back in the day when spamming was popular on AOL, I saw someone doing it and made an assload of money doing it. Then banner advertisements became popular and proxy clicking your own banner ads and I started doing that and making an assload. Hell, Bill Gates bought DOS off someone. Sure, an awesome idea will get you really rich...but I'll settle for stealing someone else's idea and making a good amount off it.

 

[Dat]

Its almost completely pure luck.

Granted if you are uber genius you may be able to become rich but thats not enough. You need to have the right mix of uber genius and business savy or just dumb luck. :>

I remember seeing the guy (fairly young) who built the "girls gone wild" franchise and is now like filthy rich.

 

[machintos]

You can be the richest man alive, but not the wealthiest.

Me, I'm poor but I'm wealthy and I'm happy, and that's all I'm asking for.

 

[wyvrn]

Yeah I agree. I have paid my own way since I was 17. But the only time I ever had any money (IE not living paycheck to paycheck) was the last couple of years where I have been living at home. THIS time when I move out, I will have my independence and a financial situation that isn't so bleak. Also, "socially acceptable" is relative as I have pointed out. While many typical Americans think living at home when you are an adult is a joke (I used to think this being a typical American), in many cases it is much wiser to do so than to live under a debt load which you will likely never get out of just to be accepted by your peers. I can make my own choices, thank you! Or to waste your good working years' money on "stuff" like an apartment only to find out you aren't going to be able to retire at a reasonable age or at all. The vast majority of people in this country do not have what it takes to retire when their retirement comes, and most work well past the normal retirement age because they have to and not because they want to. My view is that if you really value your freedom, then don't let other people make your financial choices for you.

Yeah, I'll swallow my pride. If my parents are nice enough to not mind me living at home and I'm helping them out around then what's the problem? The problem is this not "socially accetable" crap. I could care less what's socially acceptable.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

This is the dumbest statement I've heard. Yeah, that's great, you dumped a maybe 50,000 of your income over 3 years into renting an apartment. The way I can get my money invested that 50,000 is worth a whole lot more to me than getting a crap apartment. Yeah, I'll swallow my pride. If my parents are nice enough to not mind me living at home and I'm helping them out around then what's the problem? The problem is this not "socially accetable" crap. I could care less what's socially acceptable. Hell, my parents even offered me equity out of their home so I could buy my own place. Although I'd rent it to my friends and collect off them, I'm not ready to spend 500 bucks a month on a mortgage especially being not sure that I will continue to have a job. Why not live at home and save up 100k? When I buy my own house or condo it will be paid off almost fully.

Everyone who became rich left home at an early age...that's just an idiotic statement. I'm sure some did but everyone? You're also failing to take into account how much of an advantage being able to live at home is. I don't care if everyone who made it big left home early, I can also make it big but I have an advantage early because I can save much more money living at home. I don't have to worry about throwing money into a black hole.

That being said, the real way to get rich is to steal someone else's idea and make money off it. Back in the day when spamming was popular on AOL, I saw someone doing it and made an assload of money doing it. Then banner advertisements became popular and proxy clicking your own banner ads and I started doing that and making an assload. Hell, Bill Gates bought DOS off someone. Sure, an awesome idea will get you really rich...but I'll settle for stealing someone else's idea and making a good amount off it.

Who said I spent $50k renting? Also I had owned a house before that. Renting is a plus when you do not want to worry about anything...condos work also but the mainenance fees sort of kill the deal.

The mortgage system in america was designed to allow people to get out on their own, esp. now with interest rates so low.

The socially acceptable thing is what you sort of want to do if you want to get something out there to become rich...at least legally most of the time.

Also I never said everyone, I said almost everyone, there is a difference...however I am sure those that lived with their parents at the time they made their millions (independently, I am not counting inheritance) were living outside their parents home....it's hard to get people to buy in to something when you still live at home.

Your final comment explains it all...that's probably the dumbest thing most will hear...Where do you draw your line of 'stealing'? I had mentioned before I'd probably be very rich if I delved into unethical practises, especially in the late 80's when hackers/carders/phreaks were making fortunes at 16-17 years old selling overnighted tires, wheels, computers, phone cards/free long distance, cable, etc.

Crime if you are smart is a given to make you rich, but at what price.