Ahhh, I see, I apologize as that's not what I meant by free. I didn't mean free as in they'd work for nothing, I meant their transportation would be free as in, free to acquire that labor. I'll go fix that, sorry for the confusion - and yes, you'd be right, making them be free work for nothing workers would be in effect delivering slave labor. That's not what I meant by free though, that was poorly worded.
-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
How Do You Secure The Borders?
Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Ahhh, I see, I apologize as that's not what I meant by free. I didn't mean free as in they'd work for nothing, I meant their transportation would be free as in, free to acquire that labor. I'll go fix that, sorry for the confusion - and yes, you'd be right, making them be free work for nothing workers would be in effect delivering slave labor. That's not what I meant by free though, that was poorly worded.
soundforbjt
Lifer
They probably save more than $10K per illegal/year in wages.
Doc Savage Fan
Lifer
Maybe yes, maybe no...but after the $10k fine they get to do time and I highly doubt they'll enjoy that very much. The downside is that the price of vegetables goes up for senseamp....breaks my heart!
soundforbjt
Lifer
Your idea is already the law and doesn't seem to be a deterrent.:http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/penalties-for-employers-hiring-illegal-immigrants.html
My idea sends them straight to jail.
boomerang
Lifer
25% of the population of Mexico now resides within the borders of the U.S. and I read just today that 15% of the population of Guatemala is here also although I can't find where I read it right now.
The notion that the people streaming over our borders are educated, skilled people that are a benefit to our society is a naive one. Our social systems are a draw to these people and we are a nation in a state that can ill afford the increased costs. It makes no sense to allow them in (and we are absolutely doing that) to allow them to stay, to house them, feed them, educate them and cure them once they are here. It's all in the math. Fortunately, it appears that a lot of people are catching on to this. Those that aren't catching on to a great degree are our politician's and those that have bought their influence.
So, any discussion is futile unless it strikes at the core of the problem. We have a wall and there are portions of the border left that need a wall if the government will allocate the funds. We have the manpower on the border but our government will not allow them to do their job, we have people very willing to employ those illegals interested in working and those employers have the blessing of the government by way of inaction.
The common denominator in every issue involved in the problem of illegal aliens is the government. If the people in the nation that are experiencing a reduced standard of living due to the estimated 30 million people here illegally, (it's important to use the real number, not the one that's oh so much more palatable) want the problem dealt with and the laws we already have on the books enforced (laws that have been in place for decades) but the government just gives them a big fuck you, what then are the people to do?
The problem is ... our government.
This isn't going to go over well, but everyone with a true concern should read Adios America by Ann Coulter. Oh yeah, that's going to put some of you right through the roof. The book is heavily footnoted with sources for virtually every point she makes. Yeah, it's strewn throughout with her snark but the book makes a very compelling case explaining the true gravity of the problem our nation is facing due to the actions and inaction's of our government.
We will not survive this onslaught. The United States of America is not in a financial position to support Central America. Is ours a government misguided or a government guided?
The notion that the people streaming over our borders are educated, skilled people that are a benefit to our society is a naive one. Our social systems are a draw to these people and we are a nation in a state that can ill afford the increased costs. It makes no sense to allow them in (and we are absolutely doing that) to allow them to stay, to house them, feed them, educate them and cure them once they are here. It's all in the math. Fortunately, it appears that a lot of people are catching on to this. Those that aren't catching on to a great degree are our politician's and those that have bought their influence.
So, any discussion is futile unless it strikes at the core of the problem. We have a wall and there are portions of the border left that need a wall if the government will allocate the funds. We have the manpower on the border but our government will not allow them to do their job, we have people very willing to employ those illegals interested in working and those employers have the blessing of the government by way of inaction.
The common denominator in every issue involved in the problem of illegal aliens is the government. If the people in the nation that are experiencing a reduced standard of living due to the estimated 30 million people here illegally, (it's important to use the real number, not the one that's oh so much more palatable) want the problem dealt with and the laws we already have on the books enforced (laws that have been in place for decades) but the government just gives them a big fuck you, what then are the people to do?
The problem is ... our government.
This isn't going to go over well, but everyone with a true concern should read Adios America by Ann Coulter. Oh yeah, that's going to put some of you right through the roof. The book is heavily footnoted with sources for virtually every point she makes. Yeah, it's strewn throughout with her snark but the book makes a very compelling case explaining the true gravity of the problem our nation is facing due to the actions and inaction's of our government.
We will not survive this onslaught. The United States of America is not in a financial position to support Central America. Is ours a government misguided or a government guided?
K1052
Elite Member
Citation needed. Pew says it's just shy of 12M total right now, which in no way is close to the percentages you're claiming.
Who's claiming that only educated people are coming? Nobody I know. An awful lot of them seem to be employed in fields, no pun intended, that ordinary Americans don't seem to want to work in.
Because they are immediately eligible for things like Medicare and Social Security? Might want to fact check that one.
If by "catching on" you mean exploiting backwards xenophobes to rack up votes then I guess you're right. They have indeed "caught on" to the stupidity of a significant part of the electorate and are exploiting it.
To quote George Patton, fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man. Unless the lure to illegally enter the country (employment) is removed you'll never stop people with the initiative to come.
Again, citation needed. Most of the figures you're bandying about have no basis in reality.
The "problem" is economics.
Instead of reading that tripe I think whacking yourself in the face with a salmon for an hour would probably accomplish the same goal.
Yes we will. We don't have to. Neither
nickqt
Diamond Member
You have a crazy definition for the phrase "for free".
Yes, let's go around the country, check everyone's papers, and then arrange humane transport to a country thousands of miles away. After, of course, overthrowing that country's government so that we can just deport people en masse there.
Totally for free!
Y'all are fucking hilarious.
Nebor
Lifer
I love how some people throw their hands in the air at the very idea of securing the border, as if such a thing is obviously impossible. Other countries around the world have more secure borders than us. Even countries with larger borders like Russia! With technology, political willpower and a lot of money, we can secure our borders too. You need motion sensors, underground vibration sensors, fences, guards, drones & aerostats. This is far from my field of expertise, but I could easily craft a rudimentary plan to secure the border.
But there is no political will to do so. There isn't even the political will to remove those criminals that are currently here illegally. It's as if people don't realize that if we don't control who comes and goes from Mexico into the US, that Mexico may as well be a state, because there is no difference between a Mexican citizen and an American citizen.
But there is no political will to do so. There isn't even the political will to remove those criminals that are currently here illegally. It's as if people don't realize that if we don't control who comes and goes from Mexico into the US, that Mexico may as well be a state, because there is no difference between a Mexican citizen and an American citizen.
nickqt
Diamond Member
You act like it's simply a matter of political will.
You say you can come up with a rudimentary plan to secure the border.
The border is roughly 5,000 miles of border with Canada, 2,000 miles of border with Mexico, and 95,000 miles of shoreline.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/578/~/border-in-miles
So, go ahead, take 10-15 minutes (maybe 20 if you need to take a 5 minute break inbetween for a snack) to come up with a "rudimentary" plan that will "secure" the US border.
Please, post up how much you think it will cost per year, beginning with the initial construction, up to completion, and then onto maintenance. Oh, and don't forget you need to figure out the cost of interviewing every human walking around within the US to determine if they are illegal, and then busing them...somewhere. Oh, and don't forget the studies on how much it is going to cost business/industry by taking away FreeMarket labor. And the studies to determine the economic impact of all of the new regulations and implements your rudimentary plan will need to secure the US border, all 110,000 miles of it.
Once you've come up with that number, decide how you're going to pay for it. Note well that we're not allowed to add new taxes, because one US political party has signed loyalty oaths to an individual named Norquist that raising taxes is unacceptable, because Benghazi or Freedom or something.
Ok, there's your assignment. Get crackin'!
Jaskalas
Lifer
It has been "12 million" since the turn of the millennium. To continue to use that number as the decades pass... is to pretend no one is even crossing anymore. The use of it is a joke to call out supporters of the illegal invasion.
I watched California transform before my very eyes. If we're going to build a wall, it's going to have to be drawn behind a few fallen States first, or it just won't do any good when the States declare open borders for themselves and their people.
Indus
Lifer
Fence: overcome by tunneling
No job: overcome by people who want construction done at ultra cheap costs
No housing: overcome by people who want to sell homes on foreclosure or renters who want returns on investment.
No schooling: already the case with a lot of places in America (not counting sanctuary cities)
No citizenship: already the case with our congress until they marry someone for a green card or make a baby.
As you can see, they're still surviving with the status quo.
Nebor
Lifer
Already did this a while back in another one of these threads. Initial construction/implementation would be around $400B including walls, aircraft, ground sensors, sea sensors, motion detectors, satellites, internment camps and equipment for the expanded ICE force. Annual costs would be between $120B and $150B.
Funding source is irrelevant, as the U.S. Has sufficiently strong credit to support virtually unlimited deficit spending. But for the first few years, you could raise a pretty good amount of money by fining companies found to be employing illegal aliens $100,000 per worker, regardless of whether the employer knew they were illegal or not.
Ugh, tell me about it. I stopped there for gas and it took me nearly 25 minutes, with only a few cars in front of me. Every single one of them filled up their tank, then opened the trunk or tailgate and started filling up multiple gas cans! 😡
shira
Diamond Member
Stop hand-waving and put up some numbers. Our border with Mexico is almost two thousand miles long. How many cameras, how many soldiers, how tall and how deep a fence, and of what material would this fence be constructed? Most importantly, what marginal benefit would be gained by these changes, and would the benefit warrant the costs?
boomerang
Lifer
There is no urgent need to secure the border with Canada at this time. No need to put on a tourniquet to stop the minor bleeding from a vein in the arm when an artery in the leg is spurting 8 feet in the air.
That we have to secure the Canadian border is the type of argument put forth by people who think they're bright and clever. And we don't need to stop and identify anyone. We just need to enforce the laws we have on the books and people will self-deport on their own. We make the U.S. a less desirable environment for them to live in than from where they came.
The first step is to deal with sanctuary cities since that is front and center at the moment. If these cities want to violate federal law, then we cut off their federal subsidies for law enforcement. They're not using the money for what it was intended for so they obviously don't need it. We can put those funds to better use at the border. We make it undesirable to protect and shelter lawbreakers.
I see a nation on the cusp of spinning and heading in a different direction. A direction we very desperately need to head in. Look at the popularity of Trump. He doesn't give a flying fuck if you don't like what he's saying. He won't take any shit from the progressive media even going as far as to ban them from an event. He's tapped into an undercurrent of distrust and disgust regarding our government and is utilizing it remarkably well. And he's emboldened a small cadre of other Republicans to do the same, but for right now on a lesser scale. No more being pushed around by the PC zombies. I see people discarding blatant criminals like Hillary Clinton, I see people turning away from Democrats like Jeb Bush who label themselves as Republicans.
Right now today, it appears that this election will be won by an individual who won't take any shit. Hallelujah! Maybe my grand kids and their kids will be able to experience a thriving United States of America. An America that has beat back the progressive movement over the brink into the garbage can from whence it crawled.
That we have to secure the Canadian border is the type of argument put forth by people who think they're bright and clever. And we don't need to stop and identify anyone. We just need to enforce the laws we have on the books and people will self-deport on their own. We make the U.S. a less desirable environment for them to live in than from where they came.
The first step is to deal with sanctuary cities since that is front and center at the moment. If these cities want to violate federal law, then we cut off their federal subsidies for law enforcement. They're not using the money for what it was intended for so they obviously don't need it. We can put those funds to better use at the border. We make it undesirable to protect and shelter lawbreakers.
I see a nation on the cusp of spinning and heading in a different direction. A direction we very desperately need to head in. Look at the popularity of Trump. He doesn't give a flying fuck if you don't like what he's saying. He won't take any shit from the progressive media even going as far as to ban them from an event. He's tapped into an undercurrent of distrust and disgust regarding our government and is utilizing it remarkably well. And he's emboldened a small cadre of other Republicans to do the same, but for right now on a lesser scale. No more being pushed around by the PC zombies. I see people discarding blatant criminals like Hillary Clinton, I see people turning away from Democrats like Jeb Bush who label themselves as Republicans.
Right now today, it appears that this election will be won by an individual who won't take any shit. Hallelujah! Maybe my grand kids and their kids will be able to experience a thriving United States of America. An America that has beat back the progressive movement over the brink into the garbage can from whence it crawled.
Murloc
Diamond Member
you can't really secure them completely, but building a big fence does help, as shown by the Israel fence with the Sinai that managed to keep East african illegal immigrants out.
You have to keep watching the fence though. Drones help with that.
I'm telling you from my own experience that you can't keep illegals out, you can just make it more difficult.
They can still hide in cars.
Also let's not joke around: the problem of the US is that you have an immigration law but you aren't enforcing it.
You either enforce it or you change it.
If you do this, fewer will come because it's not worth the effort anymore. Once you give up on population control though, there's nothing you can do.
You have to keep watching the fence though. Drones help with that.
I'm telling you from my own experience that you can't keep illegals out, you can just make it more difficult.
They can still hide in cars.
Also let's not joke around: the problem of the US is that you have an immigration law but you aren't enforcing it.
You either enforce it or you change it.
If you do this, fewer will come because it's not worth the effort anymore. Once you give up on population control though, there's nothing you can do.
Last edited:
sportage
Lifer
First of all, this HUGE delusion that illegals are jumping some fence, with that being the whole problem of illegal immigration, is just total nonsense.
Reality check America.......
The actual method illegals use to come to this country is by air plane, and by car.
Just like any typical every day tourist on vacation.
I have known several people that have dated an illegal.
They (the illegal) had jobs, were paid cash (under the table), AND when or if they should be discovered, arrested, and then deported, it was just a matter of a days at most until they got back into the good ole US of A via air plane (in most cases), or motoring by car.
People do not realize the money that is made by looking the other way, and allowing illegals to fly by air unchallenged, and motor by car unchallenged, right in and up to main street America.
Then, stay here. Work at a job making money. Renting an apartment or house. Raising a family.
And few, very very few of these illegals have ever jumped any fence or even seen the border on foot.
They fly right over the border, or motor across it in an air conditioned automobile.
This idea that a fence would solve or change anything is totally bat shet crazy thinking.
WHY... do you think illegals, now working across America from coast to coast, send all their money earned at their job BACK to Mexico????
They stand in line every payday at some Walmart store buying money orders and wiring money BACK to Mexico.
And WalMart L O V E S all that business. AND all that profit !!!!
Then, their relatives and friends back in Mexico can get the necessary fake papers and pay the necessary people to gain access right smack dab into the USA.
And not by fence jumping.
The few illegals that do cross the boarder by running a fence are typically very poor wearing only the shirt on their back, and have no outside help once they get in, if they do actually get in by border running.
And because of THAT, nearly all of those fence runners get caught within 24 hours by the border patrol and then sent right back to Mexico.
Over 90% of all illegals now in the US simply bought a plane ticket, or were motored in by car, with all the necessary papers needed to falsely prove their right to be here.
So... in order to actually control illegal immigration into the US, as if anyone in congress or business really wants to in the first place, you would first need to break that trafficking network used by thousands of illegals every day to gain access into this country.
THEN.... You have to somehow make it IMPOSSIBLE for any illegal to get a job once in the US of A.
And the job thing... THAT is what draws illegals into the US, and what protects them once they are in the US.
This BS over laws and rules and regulating the hiring of illegal workers is all bunk.
Even Mitt Romney had illegals working for him on his property(s) during his run for president. Remember THAT???
And more recently, even good old illegal immigrant hater Donald Trump appeared to not have a clue whether or not his blue collar workers were all hired legally, or were actual legal citizens.
WHY....???
Because business and business owners, both BIG and SMALL, love, I mean L...O...V...E... all that cheap illegal immigrant labor.
They love paying low wages, and with knowing there is absolutely NOTHING that illegal cheap labor immigrant can say or do about it.
What are they going to do? Run to the cops and complain?
Mitt loves his cheap illegal immigrant labor.
Donald Trump loves saving a buck.
Even the very members of congress that SCREAM over illegal immigration and want to build some 1000+ foot tall fence, they too have illegals caring for their kids, dusting their homes, cooking their meals, trimming their lawns, and cleaning their pools.
So, ENOUGH already PLEASE with all this BS over illegal immigration.
If, "if", "IF".... congress really actually wanted to do something about illegal immigration, they could easily do that by passing AND ENFORCING harsh laws against hiring illegals.
Send Mitt to prison for 5 years.
Send Donald to sing sing at hard labor.
And THAT includes every damn illegal immigrant employing member of congress as well.
Plus every business owner both big and small.
THAT is all we really need to control illegal immigration into this country once and for all.
BUT... that WILL NEVER happen.
Because... America """LOVES""" that cheap labor.
So...... Donald, Mitt, every republican member of congress, just who the hell is kidding who??????
Reality check America.......
The actual method illegals use to come to this country is by air plane, and by car.
Just like any typical every day tourist on vacation.
I have known several people that have dated an illegal.
They (the illegal) had jobs, were paid cash (under the table), AND when or if they should be discovered, arrested, and then deported, it was just a matter of a days at most until they got back into the good ole US of A via air plane (in most cases), or motoring by car.
People do not realize the money that is made by looking the other way, and allowing illegals to fly by air unchallenged, and motor by car unchallenged, right in and up to main street America.
Then, stay here. Work at a job making money. Renting an apartment or house. Raising a family.
And few, very very few of these illegals have ever jumped any fence or even seen the border on foot.
They fly right over the border, or motor across it in an air conditioned automobile.
This idea that a fence would solve or change anything is totally bat shet crazy thinking.
WHY... do you think illegals, now working across America from coast to coast, send all their money earned at their job BACK to Mexico????
They stand in line every payday at some Walmart store buying money orders and wiring money BACK to Mexico.
And WalMart L O V E S all that business. AND all that profit !!!!
Then, their relatives and friends back in Mexico can get the necessary fake papers and pay the necessary people to gain access right smack dab into the USA.
And not by fence jumping.
The few illegals that do cross the boarder by running a fence are typically very poor wearing only the shirt on their back, and have no outside help once they get in, if they do actually get in by border running.
And because of THAT, nearly all of those fence runners get caught within 24 hours by the border patrol and then sent right back to Mexico.
Over 90% of all illegals now in the US simply bought a plane ticket, or were motored in by car, with all the necessary papers needed to falsely prove their right to be here.
So... in order to actually control illegal immigration into the US, as if anyone in congress or business really wants to in the first place, you would first need to break that trafficking network used by thousands of illegals every day to gain access into this country.
THEN.... You have to somehow make it IMPOSSIBLE for any illegal to get a job once in the US of A.
And the job thing... THAT is what draws illegals into the US, and what protects them once they are in the US.
This BS over laws and rules and regulating the hiring of illegal workers is all bunk.
Even Mitt Romney had illegals working for him on his property(s) during his run for president. Remember THAT???
And more recently, even good old illegal immigrant hater Donald Trump appeared to not have a clue whether or not his blue collar workers were all hired legally, or were actual legal citizens.
WHY....???
Because business and business owners, both BIG and SMALL, love, I mean L...O...V...E... all that cheap illegal immigrant labor.
They love paying low wages, and with knowing there is absolutely NOTHING that illegal cheap labor immigrant can say or do about it.
What are they going to do? Run to the cops and complain?
Mitt loves his cheap illegal immigrant labor.
Donald Trump loves saving a buck.
Even the very members of congress that SCREAM over illegal immigration and want to build some 1000+ foot tall fence, they too have illegals caring for their kids, dusting their homes, cooking their meals, trimming their lawns, and cleaning their pools.
So, ENOUGH already PLEASE with all this BS over illegal immigration.
If, "if", "IF".... congress really actually wanted to do something about illegal immigration, they could easily do that by passing AND ENFORCING harsh laws against hiring illegals.
Send Mitt to prison for 5 years.
Send Donald to sing sing at hard labor.
And THAT includes every damn illegal immigrant employing member of congress as well.
Plus every business owner both big and small.
THAT is all we really need to control illegal immigration into this country once and for all.
BUT... that WILL NEVER happen.
Because... America """LOVES""" that cheap labor.
So...... Donald, Mitt, every republican member of congress, just who the hell is kidding who??????
K1052
Elite Member
http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-tally-of-illegal-immigrants-adds-up-and-why-it-matters-1426259113
None of the statistics support claims of 20, 30, or 40 million illegals.
Svnla
Lifer
See post #68, especially this sentence "If you do this, fewer will come because it's not worth the effort anymore.".
Lots of people left during the great recession
Fine as long as they obey the laws of this land.
Try thinking of it in terms a Proggie can understand: It's free to US like other countries have free HC. Also not sure if you saw the edit, I didn't mean they'd work for free, I meant they'd be transported there "for free" to the new host country. Obviously having willing to work low cost labor being transported to your country for free (and, it'd be free to that host country) is a great thing to have. Keep in mind, just like they only 'do jobs Americans won't do' here, I'm sure they'll only 'do jobs <NewHostCountryCitizens> won't do' there.
OK? Why is there a problem when using Gov services to have someone provide an ID?
OK?
Errr...why would we be overthrowing any Gov? We're providing freely transported labor to them, I'm sure we'll find takers - they probably have lots of jobs their citizens won't do and will be happy to get those done.
Exactly man, it's "free HC" "free"! But plopping them on a boat/plane isn't that expensive, better than having illegals running around who didn't bother to get registered under Amnesty 2.0 or who got past the new border protection right? I mean, what US Citizen would be insane enough to be pro-illegal under those circumstances?
An interesting comment from you...
Last edited:
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
