JM Aggie08
Diamond Member
- Jan 3, 2006
- 8,424
- 1,010
- 136
What justification is there for you to buy anything but the cheapest clothes? Why don't you go live in a log cabin and live off beans only? Do you have any idea the impact you make on innocent animals and their habitats simply by being a modern human being?
By living a life of minimal regrets and just trying to be a good person day to day. Not having any mythical savior helps. I live on an organic farm and my diet does not contain lots of animals, but most of the "animal product" I consume is from animals I encounter frequently. The goats don't seem to mind that I am grabbing their milk when I don't need it. The chickens peck and eat their own eggs if I don't grab them quick enough. I humanely kill the turkeys and chickens when it is time. I am going to take a guess that you live in the suburbs somewhere and just fell into this vegan movement because you realized how wankster the emo movement is?
If not, more power to you, but I think it is very misguided. If anything, you should be against highly processed foods, as that is what the bottom of the barrel society is sustaining itself on.
If not, more power to you, but I think it is very misguided. If anything, you should be against highly processed foods, as that is what the bottom of the barrel society is sustaining itself on.
Q: How do you justify (ethically) consuming animals and animal products when you don't need to?
A: I'm not a pussy.
I saw my cousin a few weeks ago, and he was wearing a shirt that said something like "God has a home for all living animals... next to the potatoes and gravy." I laughed at it.
A: I'm not a pussy.
I saw my cousin a few weeks ago, and he was wearing a shirt that said something like "God has a home for all living animals... next to the potatoes and gravy." I laughed at it.
I just prefer to eat meat, and in moderation it can be part of a healthy diet. An omnivorous diet is natural for humans and no more or less ethical than a vegan one.
You exploit underpaid, uninsured migrant workers with no retirment plan to produce your ftuits and veggies. Your strawberries are colored red with the blood of the workers.
Look, why are you wasting your time?
None of us is going to take the time to rehash an old, old argument in favor of eating meat from when the discussion came up the last 1000 times, and you probably wouldn't think that it was reasonable if we did.
Similarly, you're not going to come up with an argument against eating meat that sounds reasonable to us. "It's immoral because animals feel pain" obviously isn't a reasonable argument to us, or we would stop eating meat.
Unless you're hear to garner some of the more offensive pro-meat and anti-vegan sayings in order to build up your own self-righteousness, you're wasting your time. Not saying that this is what you're doing, just saying that this is all you can hope to get out of this thread.
None of us is going to take the time to rehash an old, old argument in favor of eating meat from when the discussion came up the last 1000 times, and you probably wouldn't think that it was reasonable if we did.
Similarly, you're not going to come up with an argument against eating meat that sounds reasonable to us. "It's immoral because animals feel pain" obviously isn't a reasonable argument to us, or we would stop eating meat.
Unless you're hear to garner some of the more offensive pro-meat and anti-vegan sayings in order to build up your own self-righteousness, you're wasting your time. Not saying that this is what you're doing, just saying that this is all you can hope to get out of this thread.
You vegans are all sickos. You claim to care about all living things, yet you devour the very plants that make life possible on this planet. If you really wanted to mkae a positive ecological difference, you would photosynthesize your own energy directly from sunlight.
If the vegans had their way, there wouldn't be any plants left at all. And we would ALL die. At least carnivores only animals.
See, kill the plants and you kill everything, because the plants are at the bottom of the food chain.
Kill a cow, and nobody really suffers because there aren't any animals that rely on eating cows to survive.
TL;DR: Vegans are terrorists.
If the vegans had their way, there wouldn't be any plants left at all. And we would ALL die. At least carnivores only animals.
See, kill the plants and you kill everything, because the plants are at the bottom of the food chain.
Kill a cow, and nobody really suffers because there aren't any animals that rely on eating cows to survive.
TL;DR: Vegans are terrorists.
i wish i could go vegan since i feel bad about eating animals and how they get so screwed over, but it's too hard and too much effort and money (in my opinion).
humans are omnivores though. we are supposed to eat meat and plants.
humans are omnivores though. we are supposed to eat meat and plants.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
I went vegetarian for awhile for ethical reasons. Then I realized that it was not more okay to eat plants because they could not get up and run away. I considered not eating but that lasted for 10 minutes.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
I think it's not so much justification as it is rationalization. We rationalize that we are better than animals, and that that superiority in some sense also means that we can deprive them of life on only the basis of our own whims. If we didn't rationalize it, we'd all feel horrible for killing animals for food, and of course, the practice would soon stop.
It's interesting too how we assign value to certain animals, but not others. Save the whales! Kill the cows! Save dolphins! Eat tuna! Keep kittens as pets, but eat pigs. Or keep pigs as pets.
I generally don't eat much meat, and I find that preparing it can be rather unpleasant, because ever-present is the knowledge that I'm cooking and eating some chunk of what was once a live animal. But damn, roasted chicken is indeed damn tasty.
I look forward to a time when they can finally just grow animal muscle tissue in a clean environment - just the muscles, being grown in some kind of nutrient solution, and totally free of parasites. Want your steak to be ultra-rare or borderline raw? Hey, no problem, it's safe.
So how's that for a nice, ambiguous answer?
It's interesting too how we assign value to certain animals, but not others. Save the whales! Kill the cows! Save dolphins! Eat tuna! Keep kittens as pets, but eat pigs. Or keep pigs as pets.
I generally don't eat much meat, and I find that preparing it can be rather unpleasant, because ever-present is the knowledge that I'm cooking and eating some chunk of what was once a live animal. But damn, roasted chicken is indeed damn tasty.
I look forward to a time when they can finally just grow animal muscle tissue in a clean environment - just the muscles, being grown in some kind of nutrient solution, and totally free of parasites. Want your steak to be ultra-rare or borderline raw? Hey, no problem, it's safe.
So how's that for a nice, ambiguous answer?
See my reply to RaistlinZ above for your last question. Why can't I compare a child to a cow? How about a severely retarded child? Why don't we eat them and test on them? Drawing the line at our species seems pretty arbitrary. It's the fact that severely retarded individuals are sentient beings that makes us give consideration to their needs.
I try to keep my consumption to a minimum. Granted, there's always more to do, but the fact that I can't minimize harm completely doesn't mean I shouldn't try to minimize it at all. I do buy cheap clothes. What does that have to do with anything?
Well, I feel farming as you describe it is a step above where most of our animal products come from. However, I've read some interesting philosophical books on the subject, and I still can't find much justification for breeding, controlling, and killing animals. I live in Salt Lake City, which is supposedly a city rather than a suburb, and I was never emo. I'm not really the trendy type. In fact, I don't really know any vegans.
True, but the same is true of the meatpacking industry. I don't know enough about the two industries to make comparisons, but I'm open to any facts you can dig up.
That's a pretty silly argument. Plants can be easily sustained, and feeding fewer animals means consuming fewer plants. Granted, animals can perhaps also be sustained, but that involves breeding billions of sentient animals so we can use them and kill them for profit.
It's a pretty good answer.Originally posted by: Jeff7
I think it's not so much justification as it is rationalization. We rationalize that we are better than animals, and that that superiority in some sense also means that we can deprive them of life on only the basis of our own whims. If we didn't rationalize it, we'd all feel horrible for killing animals for food, and of course, the practice would soon stop.
It's interesting too how we assign value to certain animals, but not others. Save the whales! Kill the cows! Save dolphins! Eat tuna! Keep kittens as pets, but eat pigs. Or keep pigs as pets.
I generally don't eat much meat, and I find that preparing it can be rather unpleasant, because ever-present is the knowledge that I'm cooking and eating some chunk of what was once a live animal. But damn, roasted chicken is indeed damn tasty.
I look forward to a time when they can finally just grow animal muscle tissue in a clean environment - just the muscles, being grown in some kind of nutrient solution, and totally free of parasites. Want your steak to be ultra-rare or borderline raw? Hey, no problem, it's safe.
So how's that for a nice, ambiguous answer?
I don't claim that I can cut down on all suffering, but I can at least minimize it to the best of my abilities. I haven't read as much about human labor, but boycotting their products isn't necessarily the answer. Lemme see if I can find an interesting article I read about it...
Kirby
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2006
- 12,028
- 2
- 0
It's not arbitrary to draw the lines at humans. Any human is above any animal, retarded or not. I don't see how you can have a moral argument for killing animals for a sound purpose if you accept that humans > other animals. I just don't understand the reasoning behind the morality aspect. Just because something is living doesn't give it some type of mutual reverence as humans.
We are the ruling species, and until some other species takes over, there are no morals that prevent us from using them for our needs.
That's an interested argument. I suppose if you think of it that way, it comes down to what one considers a sound purpose. To me, saving myself the trouble of going vegan doesn't seem like a sound purpose for using and killing animals. In my mind, convenience has very little to do with ethics. I disagree that sentience doesn't call for some level of reverence for animals--you wouldn't say it's fine to torture animals for fun, for example, would you? Using them for our needs is another matter, but using them is no longer a need.
Unless you grow your own food, you'll still be eating animals from your food like cereal because they get caught in the machinery while farming. No, it's not a lie. Yes, the FDA knows it and approves of it if it stays below a certain ratio.
So no, you won't go fully vegan unless you can survive off of what you grow yourself.
Now don't forget to wear your hemp clothes (or that crappy American Apparel label) because the ones you're wearing now are probably made by the working childs in China, Taiwan, or wherever else where they're exploited for cheap labor, and that's just unethical too, isn't it? Don't stop there, better start learning about the soaps, shampoos, toothpaste and everything else. But how far will it go? Will you ever own a pet because that's just like captivity? Will you ever go to or enjoy a zoo because it's the same? Would you feed your pet (if you already have one) meat if it's a dog or cat?
It's not unethical to eat meat, and I love animals (more than a lot of people I meet, even). Because to be quite honest, they're nowhere near as corrupt as we are. But if you claim to be a vegan, then don't pick and choose out of convenience because you'll be using products that come from animals in a lot of day-to-day things.
So no, you won't go fully vegan unless you can survive off of what you grow yourself.
Now don't forget to wear your hemp clothes (or that crappy American Apparel label) because the ones you're wearing now are probably made by the working childs in China, Taiwan, or wherever else where they're exploited for cheap labor, and that's just unethical too, isn't it? Don't stop there, better start learning about the soaps, shampoos, toothpaste and everything else. But how far will it go? Will you ever own a pet because that's just like captivity? Will you ever go to or enjoy a zoo because it's the same? Would you feed your pet (if you already have one) meat if it's a dog or cat?
It's not unethical to eat meat, and I love animals (more than a lot of people I meet, even). Because to be quite honest, they're nowhere near as corrupt as we are. But if you claim to be a vegan, then don't pick and choose out of convenience because you'll be using products that come from animals in a lot of day-to-day things.
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