How do we bring manufacturing back to the US?

[Craig234]

nm

 

[a777pilot]

Wrong, yet again. Deluded. And idiotic about this corporatist president.

95% of what's said here about liberals is wrong or lies, I can't remember the other 5%.

And this president isn't even a liberal.

And liberals are better for business than the rest. Check the statistics - like growth.

Back away from that pipe......

Name me one thing that a so called Liberal" would do to encourage business. I grant you that Wall Street loves Liberal more than they do Republicans because Republicans wants the government to get out of the way of business, while Liberals want to control and increase regulations. All of which, those pesky regulations, help those big businesses maintain their edge over any new competition.

LOL!

You Liberals really are too funny.

 

[IronWing]

Name me one thing that a so called Liberal" would do to encourage business.

Implement a national single payer health care system, removing the burden of providing health insurance from employers.

Restore tariffs to bring jobs back to this country.

Reform copyright and patent laws to encourage innovation and redirect corporate efforts from rent collection to productivity.

 

[Hacp]

Implement a national single payer health care system, removing the burden of providing health insurance from employers.

So illegals can have free healthcare and ruin the system? If the British healthcare system had 20 million illegals flood its hospitals, it would be bankrupt too. Never.

Restore tariffs to bring jobs back to this country.

How would we sell our iphones? We put a tariff on Chinese goods, guess what? China puts tariffs on us and our manufacturers end up losing out because Europeans will buy cheaper Chinese goods rather than more expensive US made goods. Tariffs won't bring jobs back, it'll just take jobs away.

Reform copyright and patent laws to encourage innovation and redirect corporate efforts from rent collection to productivity.

How? There are no specifics.

Again, liberals strike out.

 

[Moonbeam]

Manufacturing will be coming back to the USA. A technological change as big as the Industrial Revolution is on its way. No more just in time manufacturing, no more inventory and storage needs, anything at all when you want it now is coming just down the street or in your garage.

 

[Hacp]

We've been exporting manufacturing jobs since the seventies, maybe even back into the sixties. Pretty much since we started started to drop tariffs.

1970s? Sounds like the time when the EPA started strangling businesses.

 

[IronWing]

So illegals can have free healthcare and ruin the system? If the British healthcare system had 20 million illegals flood its hospitals, it would be bankrupt too. Never.

How would we sell our iphones? We put a tariff on Chinese goods, guess what? China puts tariffs on us and our manufacturers end up losing out because Europeans will buy cheaper Chinese goods rather than more expensive US made goods. Tariffs won't bring jobs back, it'll just take jobs away.

How? There are no specifics.

Again, liberals strike out.

You're an idiot. Seriously, you are just an idiot. When you look in the mirror, just think "idiot" and you should do fine.

Could you direct me to where I might purchase a Made in the USA iPhone?

 

[Hacp]

You're an idiot. Seriously, you are just an idiot. When you look in the mirror, just think "idiot" and you should do fine.

Could you direct me to where I might purchase a Made in the USA iPhone?

Exactly. You get it. You can't. If apple can't make the Iphone in China, it'll need to make it more expensive in the US. Will Europeans pay for 1000 dollar iphones or for 250 dollar HTCs?

 

[IronWing]

Exactly. You get it. You can't. If apple can't make the Iphone in China, it'll need to make it more expensive in the US. Will Europeans pay for 1000 dollar iphones or for 250 dollar HTCs?

So your position is that the US can't afford a manufacturing base and shouldn't even try? Prices go up, wages go up, and the money stays in our economy.

 

[blackangst1]

The only way it is going to be possible to bring manufacturing back is to place very high import taxes on Chinese goods, and also on other countries we can't compete with on an equal playing field. We buy a whole lot more of their stuff than they do our stuff, so I don't see it as much of a loss for America.

Since Canada and Mexico are number 2 and 3 on our top import countries, what would such prohibitive tariffs do to the price of american automobiles?

 

[BoberFett]

Implement a national single payer health care system, removing the burden of providing health insurance from employers.

Restore tariffs to bring jobs back to this country.

Reform copyright and patent laws to encourage innovation and redirect corporate efforts from rent collection to productivity.

The first one would work.

The second would have unpredictable results.

The third will never happen because "liberals" love Hollywood. A true liberal would reform patents and copyright, but modern American "liberals" love monopolies as long as they're the intellectual kind.

 

[Hacp]

So your position is that the US can't afford a manufacturing base and shouldn't even try? Prices go up, wages go up, and the money stays in our economy.

My position is that the US can rebuild its manufacturing base by tackling the problem, which is costs to businesses. Labor costs, environmental regulations, cost of energy and taxes need to be reduced in order for manufacturing to come back. Environmental protests need to be stamped down.

Why haven't we built many refineries in the past few decades? Environmental bullshit! Refineries employ thousands of people and bring good paying jobs to workers.

 

[Engineer]

Why haven't we built many refineries in the past few decades? Environmental bullshit! Refineries employ thousands of people and bring good paying jobs to workers.

Because, as I posted in another thread, we are running between 79-85% capacity as well as EXPORTING 2,500,000+ barrels of REFINED products per day. Why build new if we have excess capacity while exporting?

Do you honestly think that the oil companies are going to build knowing the above as well as the idea that oil is a finite resource and will not last long enough to need the extra refining capacity?

Edit: looks like refining capacity jumped to 89% in July as the switch to Winter blends started taking shape.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_unc_dcu_nus_m.htm

Exports:

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_exp_dc_nus-z00_mbblpd_m.htm

 

[bfdd]

engineer, are you sure we aren't importing refined product? I looked and we import tons of refined gasoline too. Importing gasoline means we don't have enough refining capability. We should never import large quantities of refined petrol products. We need nuke plants to sustain our energy needs and we need refineries to export refined oil products to the rest of the world.

 

[Engineer]

engineer, are you sure we aren't importing refined product? I looked and we import tons of refined gasoline too. Importing gasoline means we don't have enough refining capability. We should never import large quantities of refined petrol products. We need nuke plants to sustain our energy needs and we need refineries to export refined oil products to the rest of the world.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_wkly_dc_NUS-Z00_mbblpd_w.htm

Would seem to be true, but at 600,000 barrels per day, that is lower than 5% of our daily usage, while we have between 10 - 20% spare capacity at any one time. Importing does not mean that we don't have enough capacity. Just means someone else is able to make it cheaper and bring it here. My links show capacity, even when ramping up for the Winter blends, goes to 89%.

I remember that we were supposed to building the worlds larges refinery in India that was to make gasoline so much cheaper than could be refined in the US. Simply send our imported oil there, process it, and send the refined products here. I'm sure that the consumer price would never drop, but the profits would increase that much more. Not to mention the possible layoffs from the lost refining here.

Edit: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...ds_world_s_largest_refinery_to_serve_the_West

 

[a777pilot]

Implement a national single payer health care system, removing the burden of providing health insurance from employers.

Restore tariffs to bring jobs back to this country.

Reform copyright and patent laws to encourage innovation and redirect corporate efforts from rent collection to productivity.

LOL! Ya, like any of that would work. You don't really believe any of that, do you?

 

[Hacp]

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_wkly_dc_NUS-Z00_mbblpd_w.htm

Would seem to be true, but at 600,000 barrels per day, that is lower than 5% of our daily usage, while we have between 10 - 20% spare capacity at any one time. Importing does not mean that we don't have enough capacity. Just means someone else is able to make it cheaper and bring it here. My links show capacity, even when ramping up for the Winter blends, goes to 89%.

I remember that we were supposed to building the worlds larges refinery in India that was to make gasoline so much cheaper than could be refined in the US. Simply send our imported oil there, process it, and send the refined products here. I'm sure that the consumer price would never drop, but the profits would increase that much more. Not to mention the possible layoffs from the lost refining here.

Edit: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...ds_world_s_largest_refinery_to_serve_the_West

Seems that you get it too.The big issue is cost. Where is it cheaper to make? Will the quality suffer? It seems that somewhere, it can be made for cheaper. The US needs to compete with that, or else our manufacturing base will erode.

 

[Engineer]

Seems that you get it too.The big issue is cost. Where is it cheaper to make? Will the quality suffer? It seems that somewhere, it can be made for cheaper. The US needs to compete with that, or else our manufacturing base will erode.

and part of the competing is to have currencies that are valued correctly in respect to another. Value the lower world currencies correctly with the value of the Dollar (or lower the Dollar) and you'll see a rush to send it back. Not to mention quality. Just ask the hundreds (if not thousands) of companies that are pulling back from Mexico right now. From 2000-2010, my former company closed down 5 US plants and opened up 7 Mexican plants. As of this month, it just closed down the last Mexican plant and expanded or opened 4 US plants. Poor quality, coupled with much higher turnover and unexpected labor costs and, finally, higher shipping sealed the deal. Back in the US where it belonged. Sadly though, the company must now hire and train NEW operators as the skilled ones have moved on to other jobs and will not be returning.

 

[AlienCraft]

Reduce the work force standard of living to that comparable to their competition. Give it another generation or two and that transition should be complete.

 

[IronWing]

My position is that the US can rebuild its manufacturing base by tackling the problem, which is costs to businesses. Labor costs, environmental regulations, cost of energy and taxes need to be reduced in order for manufacturing to come back. Environmental protests need to be stamped down.

Why haven't we built many refineries in the past few decades? Environmental bullshit! Refineries employ thousands of people and bring good paying jobs to workers.

Race to the bottom? No thank you. I don't want my country to become China to compete with China. And there is no need to.

 

[Hacp]

Race to the bottom? No thank you. I don't want my country to become China to compete with China. And there is no need to.

Its a race to stay competitive. Either make the changes, or the jobs will disappear forever, or at least until the labor market self corrects.

 

[JSt0rm]

Its a race to stay competitive. Either make the changes, or the jobs will dispensary forever, or at least until the labor market self corrects.

What economic qualifications and schooling do you have?

 

[Engineer]

Its a race to stay competitive. Either make the changes, or the jobs will dispensary forever, or at least until the labor market self corrects.

Again, fix the currency and enforce FAIR trade policies and it will fix itself. Absolutely no need to lower our standards to meet with them.

 

[Hacp]

Again, fix the currency and enforce FAIR trade policies and it will fix itself. Absolutely no need to lower our standards to meet with them.

China only accelerated the process. Manufacturing had been declining for a long time prior to the acceptance of china into the WTO. You need deal with the fundamental issues here before manufacturing is fixed. Outrageous compensation for unskilled labor, environmental regulation, and high taxes have driven manufacturing out of the US.

Through a combination of correcting wages(like GM did when they started paying employees 14 dollars an hour instead of 30), relaxed environmental laws, new subsidies, and elimination of social security/unemployment taxes, manufacturing can return. Otherwise, it will forever leave the US.

 

[Engineer]

China only accelerated the process. Manufacturing had been declining for a long time prior to the acceptance of china into the WTO. You need deal with the fundamental issues here before manufacturing is fixed. Outrageous compensation for unskilled labor, environmental regulation, and high taxes have driven manufacturing out of the US.

Looks to me like it was up and down before then.