How do we bring manufacturing back to the US?

[the DRIZZLE]

So far this thread has been talk of the cost of labor in the US being the big problem with a lot of references to over-paid labor, but not much if any consideration of the CEO and their upper echelon.



I sure hope the figure for the wage of 10,000 people is a lot more than the figure of one person. The fact that that comparison is often brought up in itself it a bit sad IMO.

What I was getting at though is that the middle-class/laborers have to take concessions in these "tough times" - ie. little or no pay increases (if not pay reductions in some cases,) additional responsibilities/work due to reduced workforce - yet that top tier get's 20+% increase in pay in a single year in the midst of those tough times. Not to mention that the cost of everything is still going up... ummm, nothing is wrong with that picture?

I think you are misinterpreting what people are saying. I don't blame low skill workers in the US for wanting to be well paid. In fact I think finding employment for them is one of our biggest national challenges. But you have to assess the situation honestly, there are people in China who will do these jobs for a fraction of the wage as Americans. We have to figure out what to do about it.

 

[BoberFett]

So far this thread has been talk of the cost of labor in the US being the big problem with a lot of references to over-paid labor, but not much if any consideration of the CEO and their upper echelon.



I sure hope the figure for the wage of 10,000 people is a lot more than the figure of one person. The fact that that comparison is often brought up in itself it a bit sad IMO.

What I was getting at though is that the middle-class/laborers have to take concessions in these "tough times" - ie. little or no pay increases (if not pay reductions in some cases,) additional responsibilities/work due to reduced workforce - yet that top tier get's 20+% increase in pay in a single year in the midst of those tough times. Not to mention that the cost of everything is still going up... ummm, nothing is wrong with that picture?

Sure, something is wrong with that picture. But as I said, take away that CEOs pay and it does nothing to change the situation for everybody else.

So, got any plan that actually works? Or do you just want to sit around and bitch about CEOs, accomplishing nothing?

 

[dank69]

Of course taxes and regulations effect the location of businesses. The pay tax lawyers/CPA's and consultants huge amounts of money to study both of those when deciding where to open a plant.

As a business/financial professional for over 30 yrs I can't believe there are people who are unaware of the powerful effects of taxes and regulation on business.

Regulatory issues are powerful enough alone to permit or preclude certain commercial operations in countries. E.g., some gold mining requires the use of cyanide to leach the gold from ore. In some S.A. countries the streams etc are so spoiled by cyanide from gold mining operations there is serious health/drinking water problems. For obvious reasons the USA does not allow that, therefore these mining companies do not operate here. They cannot.

If taxes were unimportant we wouldn't have small undeveloped island nations adopting a no tax policy and thereby developing into large international commerce centers.

Fern

Notice I said 'I can't believe that people actually think taxes/regulation has anything to do with the mass exodus of manufacturing jobs' and not 'taxes and regulations don't effect[sic] the location of businesses.'

People constantly spout this shit without critically thinking. It's blatently simple. Pretend we didn't have ANY regulation in the US and ZERO taxes. You could pollute to your hearts content. Now you want to open a new manufacturing plant. Skilled labor in the US is $20/hr and semi-skilled labor in China is $1/day. Where do you locate your plant?

 

[blackangst1]

There's a big difference between losing your job, your savings, & your home vs paper losses that affect your lifestyle not in the slightest. The latter isn't pain- it's disappointment & inconvenience, at worst.

If the people at the bottom are called upon to sacrifice, then it's obvious that the people at the top must be shown to be making sacrifices, as well, if the proposition is to be politically palatable.

Trickledown won't sell anymore, no matter how much the top of the Repub hierarchy wants it to. Lies will only carry you as far as the illusions they create, and the illusion is gone from that one.

Thats a pretty lengthy "yes" response.

 

[dank69]

Thats a pretty lengthy "yes" response.

Do you not agree there is a difference?

 

[blackangst1]

Do you not agree there is a difference?

Of course there is. I never said there wasnt, nor was that the jist of my cheeky question. As so many like to say here, his response was obfuscation.

 

[dank69]

Of course there is. I never said there wasnt, nor was that the jist of my cheeky question. As so many like to say here, his response was obfuscation.

Even logical ideas can be made to look stupid if you frame the questions right.

 

[Modelworks]

Maybe there is some politicians that get it.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/01/roemer-slams-china-in-front-of-chinese-embassy/

"We've become the biggest fools in the world," Roemer said. "Adopting global free trade while other countries impose trade barriers against our products."

The former governor blasted President Barack Obama's stimulus package, particularly funding for retraining of American workers.

"There are no jobs. Our jobs are in China," Roemer said. "Is he going to retrain Americans to speak Mandarin?"

He, instead, laid out a plan involving tax deductions for companies that employ and buy American workers and products. He also proposed the elimination of foreign tax credits, preventing American corporations from receiving tax breaks for paying taxes in other countries.

"We need a president to get the bear out of the room," Roemer said

Roemer announced his run for the presidency on July 21. With low name recognition and little money-he only accepts contributions of $100 or less and no PAC money-Roemer has struggled to break into the more competitive pool of GOP candidates.

With his focus on New Hampshire, Roemer is living in the Granite State and said he's seeing a boost in fundraising. Last week, his campaign raised more than $35,600, or as he called it, enough money to pay for a ticket to an Obama fundraiser.

"America desperately needs a crotchety old man like me, who has clear vision of the facts and the wisdom to notice that there's a reason that there's no room to sit safely."

And while he's experienced, Roemer said that in a world where timing is everything, his political service may have been too long ago.

"My problem is that I'm just not known," Roemer said. "And it's easy to put me aside."

He is going to be on the Daily Show tonight , he already did colberts a while back.
I like the $100 limit thing he has going, but he is up against some more well known people.

 

[IGBT]

NAFTA and Fed/State regulation assure more jobs will leave and never return. Your political leadership gets paid no matter what. So there is no penalty for their stuck on stupid disposition.

 

[bfdd]

I agree with the sentiment that paying a janitor 30 bucks an hour sucks, but what the fuck are you supposed to do? We told a bunch of idiots to get their MBAs or othernbullshit degrees and then they expect to make a ton of money because of their debt. Creates huge wage imbalance and now we're screwed. Everyone needs to get paid less or we need to devalue the shit out of our currency in order to bring the lower rung up. Lols

 

[IcePickFreak]

Sure, something is wrong with that picture. But as I said, take away that CEOs pay and it does nothing to change the situation for everybody else.

The fact is they now do everything and anything for that short term gain to grab those big bonuses. Fuck up and run a company into the ground? Oh well, retirement time, or time to call up some buddies for a top-tier job elsewhere and cash in again. As long as there is no repercussions for the long-term survivability of a company for the people calling the shots, all the peons working for them don't have much of a chance.

Ever heard the saying "they don't build em like they use to"? That's because they don't, everything - including that cheap labor - is bottom rate junk because of that upper-tier going for those money grabs.

So, got any plan that actually works? Or do you just want to sit around and bitch about CEOs, accomplishing nothing?

Bottom line is as long as the people "steering the boat" have no real accountability (ie. losing your job when you wracked up a huge bundle of money isn't really a setback) there's really not much you can do. Besides, isn't this the job of those other high paid guys with no real accountability in Washington? :hmm: