How do we block people from tunneling under our new wall?

[PokerGuy]

We'll put our best military minds on it.

Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man.

- George S. Patton

Good thing it's not a military problem. Also, the Chinese and Romans would like a word with you about walls not being effective defenses

 

[Capt Caveman]

If sanctuary cities are going to disregard immigration laws then just stop enforcing any federal criminal statutes against illegals whatsoever and send any you do catch to a sanctuary city. Send them all the Guantanamo Bay prisoners as well. Let it be known that any firearms background check from a sanctuary city won't be processed and thus effectively all will be allowed to buy a firearm in their city. Then let them deal with the criminals, terrorists, and whatever else and then determine whether they still want to pick and choose what federal laws they comply with.

Yes and you tell them that they can't leave the sanctuary city, they'll be good and won't leave. Scary to think that some of you actually have jobs and have to think for a living.

 

[fskimospy]

If sanctuary cities are going to disregard immigration laws then just stop enforcing any federal criminal statutes against illegals whatsoever and send any you do catch to a sanctuary city. Send them all the Guantanamo Bay prisoners as well. Let it be known that any firearms background check from a sanctuary city won't be processed and thus effectively all will be allowed to buy a firearm in their city. Then let them deal with the criminals, terrorists, and whatever else and then determine whether they still want to pick and choose what federal laws they comply with.

You don't seem to understand what a sanctuary city is. They are not cities that are refusing to comply with federal law, they are cities who choose not to devote resources to enforcing federal laws that no state is required to enforce. Requiring a state to enforce federal law would be unconstitutional and would be thrown out instantly by the courts.

If the federal government attempted to selectively not enforce federal law in order to attack certain jurisdictions for not complying with their orders this would not only be unconstitutional but may result in criminal charges for the officials promoting that plan.

Great plan glenn! Not only would the people implementing it get slapped down by the courts, they might end up in jail for their trouble while the coastal cities laugh and laugh at you both.

 

[PokerGuy]

Trump just told the Mexican president via twitter that if he won't agree to pay for the wall then he shouldn't come to the US.

Maybe Mexico should just stop taking his calls and pretend he doesn't exist. Seems as good a strategy as any.

The Mexicans will never hand over a check and say "here's payment for the wall", but the president has options to make them pay for it one way or the other. For example, there's lots of money going from illegals here in the US to Mexico, the president can start putting the squeeze on that... or work it into the reworked nafta or something else like that. Plenty of options.

 

[K1052]

If sanctuary cities are going to disregard immigration laws then just stop enforcing any federal criminal statutes against illegals whatsoever and send any you do catch to a sanctuary city. Send them all the Guantanamo Bay prisoners as well. Let it be known that any firearms background check from a sanctuary city won't be processed and thus effectively all will be allowed to buy a firearm in their city. Pull out all Customs and Immigrations agents from their airports and other points of entry thus effectively shutting them down as international airports. Then let them deal with the criminals, terrorists, and whatever else and then determine whether they still want to pick and choose what federal laws they comply with.

You appear to get off on writing self-destructive revenge porn fantasies. I suggest seeking professional help.

 

[Atreus21]

Why lock doors? All a thief needs is a lock pick. Or an axe.

 

[fskimospy]

1. You forget technology of the type used in Israel to prevent terrorist incursions, by using sensitive listening devices that can pinpoint the sound of digging.

Good luck with buying that and monitoring it for two thousand miles of border. lol.

2. Criminals blaming the authorities from stopping them from committing crimes isn't going to resonate with the public.

If you think US authorities will be able to murder people crossing the border and the public won't mind you are more mentally ill than I imagined.

3. Mexico gets payments due them by business or government deducted automatically.
4. Asset seizures of illegal aliens already living here before you send them back.

There are billions and billions of American owned assets in Mexico. They just seize an equal amount of them as payback. Oops. Mexico still says no.

 

[K1052]

The Mexicans will never hand over a check and say "here's payment for the wall", but the president has options to make them pay for it one way or the other. For example, there's lots of money going from illegals here in the US to Mexico, the president can start putting the squeeze on that... or work it into the reworked nafta or something else like that. Plenty of options.

Yes, surely they won't find a way around that like using 3rd party countries or simply smuggling cash back across for a fee (cartels would love this I'm sure).

You realize that Mexico would have to agree to any changes to NAFTA to make that workable right? The most probable outcome now is that Nieto will soon be finished as president and someone a lot more hostile to the US will take his place. Trump isn't going to make a deal, he's going to get us into a trade war.

 

[glenn1]

You don't seem to understand what a sanctuary city is. They are not cities that are refusing to comply with federal law, they are cities who choose not to devote resources to enforcing federal laws that no state is required to enforce. Requiring a state to enforce federal law would be unconstitutional and would be thrown out instantly by the courts.

If the federal government attempted to selectively not enforce federal law in order to attack certain jurisdictions for not complying with their orders this would not only be unconstitutional but may result in criminal charges for the officials promoting that plan.

Great plan glenn! Not only would the people implementing it get slapped down by the courts, they might end up in jail for their trouble while the coastal cities laugh and laugh at you both.

Sure, whatever you say. Since you're taking that position then surely you'll be fine when Trump's administration now longer "chooses to devote resources" to help enforce state laws. Like civil rights, voting rights, equal housing, etc. I like this plan already.

"We're not refusing to comply with state law, we're just not helping you enforce them."

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Well you can keep betting on the Mexican government, the illegals crossing the border and the drug cartels smuggling drugs and i'll keep betting on our government, thanks.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-idUSKBN1591HP

 

[Meghan54]

Sure, whatever you say. Since you're taking that position then surely you'll be fine when Trump's administration now longer "chooses to devote resources" to help enforce state laws. Like civil rights, voting rights, equal housing, etc. I like this plan already.

"We're not refusing to comply with state law, we're just not helping you enforce them."

Ummmmmmm......civil rights, voting rights, equal housing are state laws/initiatives? Gee...I always thought these were sorta federal-type thingies....like federal laws and such. Silly me.

Sorry about this profanity, but damn, son, you really are a dumbass supreme sometimes....or most times. Or all the time.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Spring loaded spikes of course

 

[fskimospy]

Sure, whatever you say. Since you're taking that position then surely you'll be fine when Trump's administration now longer "chooses to devote resources" to help enforce state laws. Like civil rights, voting rights, equal housing, etc. I like this plan already.

"We're not refusing to comply with state law, we're just not helping you enforce them."

Uhmm, what? The feds don't devote resources to enforcing state civil rights or housing laws now, they enforce FEDERAL civil rights and housing laws. Do you know how our system of government works? I fully expect Trump will decline to enforce those already, considering his history of violating those laws himself, haha. Regardless, you're saying you're happy that the federal government won't be protecting people's civil rights anymore? That's pretty funny.

You really do seem to enjoy screaming out revenge fantasies about cities, what's up with that?

 

[brycejones]

There are billions and billions of American owned assets in Mexico. They just seize an equal amount of them as payback. Oops. Mexico still says no.

In that case just invade Mexico and annex their territory to the US. That will learn them.

 

[sdifox]

There won't be any need to tunnel. Mexicans will just steal the bricks :awe:

 

[glenn1]

Uhmm, what? The feds don't devote resources to enforcing state civil rights or housing laws now, they enforce FEDERAL civil rights and housing laws. Do you know how our system of government works? I fully expect Trump will decline to enforce those already, considering his history of violating those laws himself, haha. Regardless, you're saying you're happy that the federal government won't be protecting people's civil rights anymore? That's pretty funny.

You really do seem to enjoy screaming out revenge fantasies about cities, what's up with that?

Good luck enforcing without the data and other support the feds provide; enjoy setting up your own state and city level collection programs.

 

[fskimospy]

In that case just invade Mexico and annex their territory to the US. That will learn them.

Sadly I can totally see Trump thinking this way.

It's like with the stupid fact that he lost the popular vote and instead of just accepting he lost he started ranting about how there were mysterious illegal votes. When people called that out as a lie he decided to create a federal task force to find it. No matter how badly he's losing he always doubles down.

 

[fskimospy]

Good luck enforcing without the data and other support the feds provide; enjoy setting up your own state and city level collection programs.

Uhmm, cities and states already do that. From my understanding most civil rights/housing action comes from individual complaints, not from some data mining effort.

Any more revenge fantasies you want to type out? What other officials can you get sent to jail?

 

[Murloc]

given that the US gifted high-tech detection equipment to the egyptians to stop the tunnels from the gaza strip, it should be possible.
The fact that egyptians are still pumping seawater in the tunnels doesn't make me feel 100% confident that this tech works and is not just a defense boondoggle though. Unless they do this only to destroy them.

Still, sometimes they do find catapults and tunnels to cross parts of the ALREADY existent barrier with drugs.
Working with Mexico is the only way to 100% secure the border.

Trump should explain to mexico that closing the border for good will also mean central americans stop coming into mexico, and then provide funds and help to police the other side as well. The "you will pay for it" rhetoric doesn't help though.

 

[FIVR]

I believe the whole point of a moat is that you can't tunnel under it. Also to slow attackers and prevent mounted troops from getting close to the wall.

 

[Capt Caveman]

given that the US gifted high-tech detection equipment to the egyptians to stop the tunnels from the gaza strip, it should be possible.
The fact that egyptians are still pumping seawater in the tunnels doesn't make me feel 100% confident that this tech works and is not just a defense boondoggle though. Unless they do this only to destroy them.

Still, sometimes they do find catapults and tunnels to cross parts of the ALREADY existent barrier with drugs.
Working with Mexico is the only way to 100% secure the border.

Trump should explain to mexico that closing the border for good will also mean central americans stop coming into mexico, and then provide funds and help to police the other side as well. The "you will pay for it" rhetoric doesn't help though.

Gaza strip and thousands of miles of border(including rivers/mountains/etc) are two different things. So no, the technology doesn't exist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/challenges-building-border-wall/

Efforts to build a “virtual fence” to supplement the physical barrier have proven challenging. SBInet, an initiative to augment border patrol agents with advanced technology, struggled to meet deadlines and faced repeated technical problems before it was terminated in 2011, according to a recent Congressional Research Service report.

And we actually have Americans living on the other side of the wall.

The existing border fencing in southern Texas often sits far from the river, outside its flood plains — creating wide seams between the fence and the official border.

Some Americans live on the Mexican side of the border fence.

River Bend Resort, a golf course and residence in Brownsville, Tex., sits between a gap in the existing fence. If the wall were completed, based on U.S. regulations, it would bisect the property, according to owner Jeremy Barnard. Roughly 200 residents and 15 of the 18 golf holes would sit south of the border wall.

“What is the government’s plan? Are they going to come and buy out 200 people of their houses?” he said. “There’s so much more to it than ‘let’s just build a wall.’ ”

 

[PokerGuy]

Yes, surely they won't find a way around that like using 3rd party countries or simply smuggling cash back across for a fee (cartels would love this I'm sure).

Oh, I'm sure they will find ways around whatever mechanisms are put in place, just like a thief can find a way around any kind of security you have on your house. That doesn't mean you don't implement it and make it a heck of a lot harder. Just making it that much harder will put a tremendous squeeze on the totals.

You realize that Mexico would have to agree to any changes to NAFTA to make that workable right? The most probable outcome now is that Nieto will soon be finished as president and someone a lot more hostile to the US will take his place. Trump isn't going to make a deal, he's going to get us into a trade war.

lol, yes, head for your bunkers, doom and gloom! Last I saw, Mexico has a trade surplus of $60 billion per year in trading with the US. Mexico exports about $300 billion worth of goods to the US each year. You seriously think Mexico can afford to get into a trade war with the country with which it has a $60 billion trade surplus and that buys $300 billion worth of mexican goods each year? Really?

No matter what the politicians and talking heads say, I suspect the Mexicans have some pretty strong incentives just like we do to keep things going. Talk of trade war is baloney. The US has a lot at stake as well, but to call what's at stake for both parties equal is just delusional. The US has a lot of leverage, but it needs to decide how far it wants to push to use it.

 

[momeNt]

I believe the whole point of a moat is that you can't tunnel under it. Also to slow attackers and prevent mounted troops from getting close to the wall.

You can pretty much always tunnel under anything. Look at the Dakota Pipeline, it is underneath the river. The Chicago CTA trains pass underneath the river in multiple locations. Chicago gets its water from tunnels underneath the lake, that were dry during their construction until they penetrated the lake bed.

Unless you are dealing with completely cohesionless soils like sand, tunneling is not that difficult either.

 

[PokerGuy]

You can pretty much always tunnel under anything. Look at the Dakota Pipeline, it is underneath the river. The Chicago CTA trains pass underneath the river in multiple locations. Chicago gets its water from tunnels underneath the lake, that were dry during their construction until they penetrated the lake bed.

Unless you are dealing with completely cohesionless soils like sand, tunneling is not that difficult either.

Agreed, given the right resources, you can can pretty much tunnel under or through anything. That's why a wall can't simply be a stand alone measure -- you need technology and resources along with it to make it work.

 

[luv2liv]

Even better, how about two walls with a minefield between? That worked pretty well for the communists in East Germany.

according to Gillette, 5 walls would be better than 2