How could you mess up Dune worse than David Lynch?

[K1052]

Went to see it in 3D on the day it came out. Disapointed. The color palettes were bland trougout the movie and the 3D did not add anything. The extremely slow pace made it tedious at time. Otherwise, great acting, fantastical flying ships, great vilains 3.6 on the movie scale. Recommended.

I am a strong proponent of NOT seeing anything in 3D because the light levels are usually piss poor unless I am sure the projection is using a laser light source.

 

[Pohemi]

I am a strong proponent of NOT seeing anything in 3D...

I was never really into the 3D thing, but it's no longer an option for me. You kind of need two working eyes for 3D/stereoscopic vision, and my left eye is shot. I don't feel like I'm missing out, tbf.

 

[Number1]

I am a strong proponent of NOT seeing anything in 3D because the light levels are usually piss poor unless I am sure the projection is using a laser light source.

Agree and everythig looks blury and I cant see my bowl of nachos and usualy end up with cheese all over my shirt.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

After a rewatch, Denis spends a little too much time on lingering dramatic shots vs character development. A bit more balance would have been better if they didn't have the balls to add another 15-20 minutes of runtime

That happens when you take fantasy epics and stuff them into 3-5 hours of runtime. The required character development conflicts with the required scene/set/environment/world building exposition. Which is why Dune should have been a full season series of 10 episodes, at minimum.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I would really have loved to see what would have come from Jodorowski if they had been able to secure the funding needed.

 

[IronWing]

I want the animators who made Clutch Cargo to remake Dune.

 

[nakedfrog]

I would really have loved to see what would have come from Jodorowski if they had been able to secure the funding needed.

I think you were one of the people that made me aware of the documentary about that, it was a good watch.

 

[Starbuck1975]

After seeing the new version of Dune, I rewatched the Lynch version just so the contrast would be more current. I still prefer the Lynch version for its pacing and character development. The new version is visually stunning yet bland at the same time. The special effects are better, yet don’t help you understand what’s going on. I gained a new appreciation for the inner thought dialogue and exposition in the Lynch version. The new version was most successful when it mirrored the Lynch version.
What really stuck out is how much presence the actors in the Lynch version brought to the table. If I can break down each of the roles, and which actor I preferred:

Paul - new version
Leto - Lynch
Jessica - Lynch
Baron - Lynch
Beast Rabban - new version
Liet Kynes - Lynch
Stilgar - new version
Fremen (in general) - new version
Gurney - Lynch
Duncan - Lynch
Chani - new version
Thufir - Lynch
Dr. Yueh - new version, although Lynch version gave him more screen time and better explained his motivations
Sardaukar - new version, despite their chant and language sounding like leftover LOTR black speech

 

[DigDog]

I would really have loved to see what would have come from Jodorowski if they had been able to secure the funding needed.

you would not have liked it.
there is abundant IRL evidence - some directly from him - that he was a lunatic and the film would have been a wreck.

 

[DigDog]

interesting;
my take:
Paul - Lynch
i already thought KML was wooden but jesus christ, this new kid is horrible.
Leto - Villeneuve
Jessica - Lynch
Baron - Lynch
Beast Rabban - Lynch
Villeneuve thinks his name is Rabban Harkonnen. THAT is how faithful to the books we are, folks.
Liet Kynes - Lynch
Stilgar - Villeneuve
the reason being that new Stilgar is now a larger, more important character
Fremen (in general) - Lynch
Gurney - Lynch
Duncan - Lynch
Chani - Lynch
Villeneuve's Chani is so self-important, without any reason to be.
Thufir - Lynch
Dr. Yueh - Lynch
Piter De Vris - Lynch
Rev Mother GM - Lynch by a country mile
Irulan - ooops, we forgot about Irulan
Padishah Shaddam IV - minor character, im sure nobody will notice him missing
Feyd Rautha - pff, we dont need him, he's just Paul's Harkonnen alter-ego
Guild Navigator - another character irrelevant to the plot, lets just add more CGI spaceships instead

 

[MrSquished]

That happens when you take fantasy epics and stuff them into 3-5 hours of runtime. The required character development conflicts with the required scene/set/environment/world building exposition. Which is why Dune should have been a full season series of 10 episodes, at minimum.

One can only dream that Apple TV or Amazon poured hundreds of millions into a 10 hour dune miniseries like they have with Foundation and LOTR, respectively

 

[BurnItDwn]

you would not have liked it.
there is abundant IRL evidence - some directly from him - that he was a lunatic and the film would have been a wreck.

To be fair, I am a huge Jodorowsky fan, and don't really care about Dune. it would have been interesting to see just for the bizarreness of it all. The main draw is the surrealism and lunacy

 

[DigDog]

To be fair, I am a huge Jodorowsky fan, and don't really care about Dune. it would have been interesting to see just for the bizarreness of it all. The main draw is the surrealism and lunacy

... while in a way i agree with you, i also want to know why crazy film director 1 gets a pass at treating Dune liberally as nothing more than artistic inspiration, yet crazy film director 2 gets trashed for, you know, being pretty fucking damn faithful to the book, while allowing for a few necessary concessions needed for the restrictions of the medium.

I mean, the title of this thread is "how can you fuck up worse than Lynch". In the years past i could appreciate that D1 doesnt spoonfeed you so it was ok if some people didnt understand the plot, but what exactly is it that Lynch did so badly? The weirding modules?
Because that is filmwriting 101 and visually the modules are far better than trying to show a melee' of people in shields using the voice to win battles. Paul teleporting the water of Caladan on Arrakis is a simpler resolution than explaining the Fremen water qanats and how they plan to break the ecology of Arrakis by poisoning the worms.

There are multiple issues with the criticism of Lynch's Dune, the biggest ones being:
1. everyone reads a book differently; and
2. people think Herbert was a genius of the same calibre of Tolkien.

i sure do not want Sardaukar troops fighting in parade uniforms, or wing-flapping orni - this was already stupid in the books. Herbert's book is a "nice" scifi story with plenty of plot holes, instances of poor writing, mediocre plot decisions, but it has a pretty good background idea so it works well enough as a film. Pretty much ALL fiction breaks under scrutiny if you just so slightly deviate from reality, and it's never the point of any fantastic story to try to be realistic. Short of LOTR or 2001 you're not gonna find many works that hold up to "why did they not do this?", and, most authors dont even care, they just want the story to read well on the first pass.

You know, book Paul is 15yo at the start of Dune, and barely 18 by the end. Alia is 3 years old, lol, when she faces the emperor. Both have dialogue better suited to a 25yo and a 12yo respectively because Herbert WAS NOT TRYING TO WRITE A FILM. It's fantasy and meant to be absurd, not realistic.

And, finally, D2 is the same.exact.film, just worse visually, worse in acting and in everything else, but it's essentially identical. So again im confused as to how Villeneuve "fucked up even worse".

 

[RPD]

The problem is LOTR set the bar for all future book to movie adaptations and it's further compounded by zealous fans of well celebrated novels. LOTR is the exception to the rule (I'm sure there may be others that exist, but this is the only example I can find); not the norm. I mean I love the Expanse novels, but still feel the series does a DAMN fine job adapting to the books, but acknowledge it's again an impossible task.

 

[quikah]

I mean, the title of this thread is "how can you fuck up worse than Lynch". In the years past i could appreciate that D1 doesnt spoonfeed you so it was ok if some people didnt understand the plot, but what exactly is it that Lynch did so badly? The weirding modules?

The inner monologues do not work in the film. They are just awful and ruin the flow. The SFX are bad, but I guess you have to give it a pass because of the age, but man, they really could have come up with something better for the shields.

 

[DigDog]

The inner monologues do not work in the film. They are just awful and ruin the flow. The SFX are bad, but I guess you have to give it a pass because of the age, but man, they really could have come up with something better for the shields.

i'm just gonna let you know, that i am one of those who loves the Blade Runner voiceover.

 

[Charmonium]

I skimmed the comments but this might have been mentioned.

Am I the only who sees the current version as just being part one?

Where is the fight with Sting's character? the battle with the barron. Whatever happened at the end of the original with the worms and "atomics?"

Where those all part of the first book? and if so, how are they calling this Dune period?

 

[sdifox]

I skimmed the comments but this might have been mentioned.

Am I the only who sees the current version as just being part one?

Where is the fight with Sting's character? the battle with the barron. Whatever happened at the end of the original with the worms and "atomics?"

Where those all part of the first book? and if so, how are they calling this Dune period?

LoL Part One is part of the title, so yeah it's just half a movie.

 

[LikeLinus]

I skimmed the comments but this might have been mentioned.

Am I the only who sees the current version as just being part one?

Where is the fight with Sting's character? the battle with the barron. Whatever happened at the end of the original with the worms and "atomics?"

Where those all part of the first book? and if so, how are they calling this Dune period?

Uh, everyone sees it. It's literally in the opening title "Dune Part 1".

That said, I very much enjoyed Dune 2021 and so did my entire family.

 

[Charmonium]

Uh, everyone sees it. It's literally in the opening title "Dune Part 1".

That said, I very much enjoyed Dune 2021 and so did my entire family.

See, that's what I get for skipping intros.

 

[Dranoche]

Am I correct in assuming that most of you who appear to have a fondness for Lynch's Dune are old enough to remember it when it was new? I think reception of Dune 2021 is going to be pretty heavily influenced by your first introduction to either the 1984 film or the scifi miniseries and whether or not it clicked with you. I was born in the mid-80's, and didn't see the 1984 film until after the miniseries, which came out soon after I first read the book. Despite the low production values through much of the miniseries, I appreciated the more direct translation of events. With the 1984 film I get hung up on the additions like weirding modules and my perception that some of the characters feel like caricatures. Full disclosure: I think David Lynch is a fascinating person but really don't like most of what he's made.

I thoroughly enjoyed the new film. I would have liked to have seen a little more of Yueh's setup, the dinner scene, and some of the hints of distrust of Jessica from Hawat and Duncan. Halleck's disposition towards her can easily be established in the next film, and doesn't really start until the book comes back to him after the attack. I enjoyed the longer shots, don't get much of that in modern movies. Some of that could have been cut slightly to maybe slip in another scene or two? Not entirely sure on that. I was generally fine with the pacing but it felt a little rushed coming into the Harkonnen attack.

interesting;
my take:
Paul - Lynch
i already thought KML was wooden but jesus christ, this new kid is horrible.
Leto - Villeneuve
Jessica - Lynch
Baron - Lynch
Beast Rabban - Lynch
Villeneuve thinks his name is Rabban Harkonnen. THAT is how faithful to the books we are, folks.
Liet Kynes - Lynch
Stilgar - Villeneuve
the reason being that new Stilgar is now a larger, more important character
Fremen (in general) - Lynch
Gurney - Lynch
Duncan - Lynch
Chani - Lynch
Villeneuve's Chani is so self-important, without any reason to be.
Thufir - Lynch
Dr. Yueh - Lynch
Piter De Vris - Lynch
Rev Mother GM - Lynch by a country mile
Irulan - ooops, we forgot about Irulan
Padishah Shaddam IV - minor character, im sure nobody will notice him missing
Feyd Rautha - pff, we dont need him, he's just Paul's Harkonnen alter-ego
Guild Navigator - another character irrelevant to the plot, lets just add more CGI spaceships instead

-Rabban's father dumped the Harkonnen name, but Rabban is still functionally a Harkonnen. Feyd-Rautha drops the Rabban name to take up the Harkonnen name. Minor backstory that ultimately has no bearing on the main story. The book had the appendices to help you along if necessary with all the names of people, events, technology, and systems. Makes sense for a movie to simplify that.
-How is Chani self-important? Do you mean Villeneuve's use of her, not the character herself? Maybe unnecessary implied importance? She's present throughout the movie but there's never any motive expressed. She's used to show Paul's prescience, particularly the fact that it can be hazy and isn't always right. Those moments are usually long inner monologues in the book, so I feel like it works fine for translation to screen.
-Irulan isn't present in the active story in this portion of the book, the emperor isn't present, Feyd-Rautha is barely introduced, and the Navigators are barely referenced. I think completely leaving them out for now is the right move. There's enough going on.

 

[Charmonium]

Now that I know that this was supposed to be just part 1, I can say that I liked the new one. But I had just recently rewatched the original - which seems sort of silly by comparison. What I mean is that you get so much more insight into the characters. Plus I think the new Paul is a much better casting (and probably directing) than the original.

I second the sentiment of doing a 10 part series. If Apple can squeeze out two seasons for SEE, then what in the actual fuck?

I must also register my complaint concerning what seems to be a trend for going black on black in so many scenes. OK, humble brag coming. I don't think there are many sets beyond the OLEDs that handle that sort of thing better and it is STILL annoying. No, I am not going to turn off my lights so I can watch something. Yes, I know that's how it would in a theater. Don't care.

 

[DigDog]

Plus I think the new Paul is a much better casting (and probably directing) than the original.

ugh.
Kyle McLaughlin = bad
Timothee Chalamet = terribad

kid's got angsty, antagonizing dialogue, but emo body language, and you want to praise his direction?

i give up

 

[sdifox]

ugh.
Kyle McLaughlin = bad
Timothee Chalamet = terribad

kid's got angsty, antagonizing dialogue, but emo body language, and you want to praise his direction?

i give up

I'll take Kyle over Emo Atrides.

 

[IronWing]

IIRtBC, Paul starts out a bit emo and grows up through the first few chapters.