How could I make my computer colder for overclocking and less noisy?

[Raskolnikov]

Win 8 Pro upgrade key up for grabs for best answer.

As per the thread’s title. Budget 250-300$ Maybe more if worth it.

My current case: Rosewill Blackhawk -- http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-107-_-Product
My current heat sink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120 mm PWM Fan -- http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835103099

Hopefully I didn't invest in a bad case? Are the Rosewill fans that came with the case good enough, or should I replace them? I am currently running on my motherboard's power saving profile, as anything higher makes the computer sound like a helicopter.

I heard about water cooling, but it sounds to me like rocket science.

My computer's specs:
ASUS Rampage IV Extreme
Intel i7 4930
2x G.Skill 8GB DDR3
2x Gigabyte G1 GTX 980 4GB
750W Rosewill PSU

Pictures of the setup:
http://i.imgur.com/x9F2tfC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Hdeyrb3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xpYGS3S.jpg

I've been told that the cable management is not very good, despite it having been done by a computer technician. (I generally prefer to abstain from PC assembly due to bad experiences in the past)

Idle temp reading: https://i.imgur.com/gInswAA.jpg
After 30-40 minutes of Heaven Benchmark on Extreme settings https://i.imgur.com/CRNQIk6.jpg

Some suggestions that have been proposed (comments?):

1.

"10 fans is too many -- you'll just end up blowing air everywhere without cooling properly.
If you're going to stick with that case, you should have 5 fans and yes I'd dump the fans that came with the case.
Because of how restrictive the airflow can be over the drive bays, I'd put another intake on the side or the bottom in addition to one in the top.
To summarize:
Front Intake: 2x NF-P12/F12
Rear Exhaust: 1x NF-P12/F12
Top Intake: 1x NF-A14 in the forward position only (block rear position if possible)
Side Intake: 1x NF-P12/F12 OR Bottom Intake: 1x NF-A14
Be sure to consider pricing here. You may be better off buying a FT-02, FT-05, RV02, RV03, or RV05 because they come with very good fans and have near perfect airflow out of the box.
Edit: And yes, NH-D15 for the CPU cooler."

2.

"CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X61 106.1 CFM
Liquid CPU Cooler Case Fan: BitFenix BFF-SPRO-P14025KK-RP 122.2 CFM 140mm
Fan Case Fan: BitFenix BFF-SPRO-P14025KK-RP 122.2 CFM 140mm Fan I assumed that being able to have 2 140mm fans on top meant being able to have a 280mm radiator."

 

[AntonioHG]

I was going to type a really long message, but hm, you have $250-300 to spend. Might as well get a better case.

Phanteks Enthoo Luxe:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811854006


It's got a PWM fan hub too so you could set it up to be fairly quiet and ramp up a bit when under high load.

You can add the NH-D15 (I am checking to be sure on the Kraken) in there too. I can't recommend the Phanteks PH-TC14PE unless you want to replace the fans with something quieter. I've got Thermalright TY-147s on mine (in black, they are TY-147).

From the pics you posted, the temps are fine though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQOPK-OgvnM

Seems like you have a quite a few options for mounting radiators in this thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQOPK-OgvnM

 

[Cerb]

Hopefully I didn't invest in a bad case?

For cooling, no. For noise, maybe.

I heard about water cooling, but it sounds to me like rocket science.

No, just high cost. It's also not terribly quiet until you get into it being very high cost . If you're up for the cost and effort of water cooling your GPUs, it would be worth it, I think. Water's big advantage is that it allows you to choose where the heat goes, to be dissipated.

1.

"10 fans is too many -- you'll just end up blowing air everywhere without cooling properly.
(...)

Solid advice, IMO, save that side fans tend to be good ways to add to noise via case vibration, even w/ Noctuas. Given the costs involved in just changing coolers and fans, air or CLC, moving to the FT05 might well not be too bad, and wouldn't a band-aid attempt, but a case made for what you're after. ~$250 could get you the case new CPU HSF. Even with new fans, any noise they make has ample room to get to you, in the current case.

2. "CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X61 106.1 CFM
(...)

Might be alright, and would result in killer temps, for sure. I would seriously wonder if it wouldn't be too little, under sustained load, given the case, however. Any and all fan noise still has direct paths out of the case. Also, the pump whine might get you just like fans do.

 

[AntonioHG]

At the very least, the RV05 and FT05 are a pain in the butt due to the cramped interior:



http://www.techspot.com/review/846-silverstone-rv05/page3.html

http://www.techspot.com/review/890-silverstone-ft05/page3.html

I know I read that you had someone do the build for you, so maybe that will be the case here and therefore this gripe doesn't really matter, but almost any other case would be a much simpler, easier thing to work with instead of dealing with SS quirkiness. I personally own an FT03 and a Lian Li x500 and X1000, I couldn't recommend a SS or LL over a Corsair or a Phanteks for a person such as yourself. In this case, I feel like a Phanteks would do you good with all the attention to details for AIO, ease of assembly, cleaning and the fact that they include a hub, tie down points with velcro, etc.

 

[aigomorla]

Cooler with less noise is like asking for more HP with better fuel economy.
They are antagonist with one another.

To get something cooler:
1. You need to push a LOT of air though the heat sink so the heat resistance is at maxmium efficiency.

OR

2. Greatly increase the surface area on the heat exchange, so you have more area in which heat transfer can be done.

OR

3. Greatly reduce the Ambient temperature in which the air going into the heat exchanger is lowered.


All of these will add to noise.

Either, you have loud fans... many many quiet fans... or an AC.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I thought I posted an answer to this. Maybe it was another thread, but I thought the system was a Rosewill case and an "E" processor.

Anyway -- AigoMorla is correct as far as I can see, as it generally explains what I thought I wrote before.

If air-cooling, pressurize the case, use fewer and larger fans for intake but with more CFM than exhaust, and concentrate the exhaust through the cooler.

Maximum PC had published a Dream Machine of the Year with 15 fans. Quite frankly, I think that's insane. Of course, maybe they had four Titan cards and sixteen hard drives.

That's still insane. Even for water-cooling, I'd think . . . Just my opinion. . .

 

[Cerb]

Cooler with less noise is like asking for more HP with better fuel economy.
They are antagonist with one another.

But, I can buy a new car with nearly double the HP of a 30-year old car of similar weight, and 20-50% better mileage. It's only purely either or once already at design limits.

To get something cooler:
1. You need to push a LOT of air though the heat sink so the heat resistance is at maxmium efficiency.

OR

2. Greatly increase the surface area on the heat exchange, so you have more area in which heat transfer can be done.

OR

3. Greatly reduce the Ambient temperature in which the air going into the heat exchanger is lowered.

That looks to be OK, here, I think, short of water's ability to improve delta-T. T a fair degree, the fans are being overused, I'm sure, though.

For noise, there's also:
4. Reduce pressure the fans have to work against.
5. Reduce the straight paths that the sound wave could come out of the case, to your ears, or a surface to bounce off of. Just indirection in the case can make a huge difference.
6. Reduce the noise made by fans, by using fans with minimal audible turbulent noise from the blades, and minimal bearing noise.
7. Reduce transmission of vibration, by not allowing any loose parts, and using parts that themselves create/transmit vibration minimally (soft mounts can help, but only once already using low-vibration parts).
8. Reduce RPMs needed (dependent upon 1-7, and specific fan used).

The OP case has #4 as a problem, even with the drive cages removed, for the front intakes. They blow right into a panel with well under 50% area open for air to pass through.
It has #5 with the intakes, and the extra noise being made right there at that panel with the drive cages I'm sure is not helping one bit.
Not sure about #6.
Any clear fan frame is going to be worse about #7 than a soft plastic one, and that side panel w/ fans...

I did not know the OP had it built. If so, those Silverstone cases may be diving in the deep end way too quickly, and a Define R4 or 550D, with added bottom intakes, and removed drive cages (for the front intakes) may be much better options (the included fans in either are fine, just may need adding to). That mess of PSU cables could be moved far out of the way, too.

In a R4 or 550D, FI:
4. Drive cages can be installed, or not, as needed, or re-oriented (R4). On the R4, the front grill can be removed. Unlike the OP's case, the intake can be efficiently blowing right into the GPUs. Bottom intakes can supplement the front, with no particular restrictions but the filter.
5. The front intake fans, CPU fan(s), GPU fans, and HDD motor will all be somewhat blocked by the side and front panels, and possibly top. The bottom and rear fans will be at the mercy of the floor, desk, wall, etc., which usually isn't much of a problem, as they can run fairly slow, due to being mostly restricted by just the filter. Still some ways for noise to get out, but much, much less.
6 and 7. The included fans by Corsair and Fractal Design are just fine, at low to moderate speeds, and adding a bit more fans, running slower, on the bottom, front, and/or rear, and/or top (experiment a little), none should need to spin fast enough to be problems.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It all boils down to a choice of cases and a choice of fans.

OP thinks water-cooling is rocket-science -- an understandable point of view, probably shared by many mainstream computer users.

The case-makers can't produce a case that is optimized for any single approach to cooling, although some cases address watercooling needs (like the Corsair 900D) and other cases address air-cooling needs (like my HAF 922's or their full-tower 932 or "X.")

The case-makers will give you options (in fan vents, vent size and placement) and a neophyte will simply assume that use of all the options is "optimal." In fact, with some cases, the user chooses a cooling strategy and a cooling strategy may be "optimized" by blocking off one or more fan vents.

There is only so much you can do with the Blackhawk. Neither better nor worse than a lot of midtower cases, it only uses 120mm fans, only has vents of a certain size, doesn't have a lot of room for water-cooling.

I'd tell the OP to temper his expectations for matching the case to his hardware. He can reasonably use the case for a 4930K "E" processor and Rampage motherboard (which I believe is an EATX).

But starting off with a TDP of 130W for the processor, any overclocking is only going to get so far.

If LED "Bling" is not important, he could probably get better fans for the front intake.

Probably the single thing he can do to cool the processor to a maximum while using the same 212-EVO cooler -- abjuring any water-cooling -- is to pressurize the case with a lot of intake fans, seal off any "leaks," and duct the rear of the cooler to the rear-exhaust fan.

My overclocked SNB/SB-K (whatever) with a stock TDP of 95W exhibits the load heat generation of 140+W. I can keep the temperatures below 73C @ RA 80F because I have two large intake fans (which folks don't like that much), a huge NH-D14 cooler (ditto), a powerful (noisy) exhaust fan (ditto) and large fan vents (ditto -- with complaints about dust). For air-cooling, it is a singular configuration and as optimal as it gets -- for AIR-COOLING.

As to the noise-efficiency trade-off -- not a perfect analogy. I wrapped my AP_30 in acoustic foam-rubber, and at 3,400 RPM, I can hardly hear anything except white-noise from air-turbulence. I can't pick up any type of sound with my cell-phone mic -- not at 3' -- definitely not at 6'. I was hoping to get a sound file I could post, but -- no cigar.

Because I never stopped doing air-cooling since I stopped slapping together computers in recycled IBM beige cases, I can tell you that it can't get any better. But HAF 922's are ugly; people don't like large fans; people don't want to fiddle with a monster NH-D14/D15 cooler; people don't want to wrap a noisy fan in four layers of foam-rubber. It's a singular example. I can't do it with just any case, just any cooler, or just any choice of fans.

So for the Blackhawk -- maybe fans with higher CFM and as little noise as possible paid for the CFM. Either a better air-cooler, and/or a foam-board duct for the 212-EVO to the rear exhaust fan.

There's not much more you can do, short of buying an AiO cooler or finding a way to fit custom-water parts in that little midtower.

Without water cooling or better airflow with bigger intake fans -- there will be a definite limit on how far the i7-4930K will overclock.

But! It's a 4930K!!

If it only had a TDP of 95W, I could prescribe my case, fans and cooler. But with a TDP of 130W -- which would reach 200+W with overclocking -- it needs custom-water-cooling to OC to its full potential.

 

[guskline]

First you temps aren't horrible. Since your cpu is not OC'd (shame with a Rampage mb +4930k) I would opt for a better case. Phantek Ethoo Pro if you can find it. The Luxe is nice but not as big. The Pro gives the option to water cool in the future. TRUST ME, custom watercooling is costly.

If the $$ holds on the case, get a QUALITY, AIO cooler for your cpu and then overclock it to get more performance.

 

[Cerb]

I'd tell the OP to temper his expectations for matching the case to his hardware. He can reasonably use the case for a 4930K "E" processor and Rampage motherboard (which I believe is an EATX).

Good catch. Doesn't look very "E" with a glance at a photo of it, but it is EATX, and that cuts down options.

 

[Cerb]

First you temps aren't horrible. Since your cpu is not OC'd (shame with a Rampage mb +4930k) I would opt for a better case. Phantek Ethoo Pro if you can find it.

Available? Check.
Fits EATX? Check.
Rigid design, with no extra clipped-in bits (no panel rattling)? Check.
Not too expensive? Check.
No-frills positive pressure cooling? Check.

Winner?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Available? Check.
Fits EATX? Check.
Rigid design, with no extra clipped-in bits (no panel rattling)? Check.
Not too expensive? Check.
No-frills positive pressure cooling? Check.

Winner?

Like I said before: The Rosewill is neither better nor worse than a lot of mainstream midtowers. The Phanteks is a much better choice.

I just think -- at this point of CPU-lineage and development -- it's a good idea to pick the case and cooling first -- knowing that you're filling it with high-end hardware and a CPU with a 140W TDP. And if you're going to get high-end hardware like the Rampage and "E" processor, decide what you're going to do with it before you hit the Checkout button . . .

If you don't want to use water-cooling, that's also a choice. Just don't count on any serious overclock settings. Well . . . you could get lucky with a D15 cooler, but it's right at the boundary between "casual" and "serious."

 

[Raskolnikov]

Sorry for late reply.

From what I've been understanding (and first stated by gradoman - reward sent by PM), I should ditch the Rosewill and get a Phantek Ethoo Pro.

http://www.ncix.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=phanteks

Is the ultimate overkill? Considering that towers have long longevity.

Change the heatsink as well? Or keep the current one, which is mostly entry-level.

 

[AntonioHG]

Wow, thanks a lot, lol. I look forward to your PM.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I actually sent it by e-mail. Didn't notice that I needed 25 posts to be able to send a PM to someone of the administrator group.

Still have two questions left, if you don't mind.

 

[AntonioHG]

For cooling, that Kraken X61 seems pretty good. I personally have never used anything other than air coolers. So while it would fit in the case and would perform really well vs other coolers, I have no experience of the downsides.

 

[schmuckley]

Build a Bong Cooler.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Build a Bong Cooler.

I'm still fond of that idea, and would be fonder of it still if I had a bigger "computer" room or more floor space. But it has to be serviced frequently, can't be allowed to run dry, needs at least some sort of filtering system or a more complex design with an "evaporative" loop and the main cooling loop. In this latter case, the cooling might not be as effective as with a simple design wherein the water tends to get dirty and shorten the life-span of the pump.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Still haven't made my decision, except for the part that the CPU cooler is probably going to be a NZWT X61 Kraken. Unfortunately, PC parts picker says that it's incompatible with the Rosewill Blackhawk. NZWT official documentation is somewhat confusing with that regard: for x60: (http://www.nzxt.com/uploads/downloads/manuals/Kraken_Compatibility_Guide_09.4.2013.pdf) & x61: (http://www.nzxt.com/uploads/downloads/miscellaneous/Kraken_Series_Compatibility_Guide_10.22.2014.pdf) PCPP also reports the H100i as being compatible with the Blackhawk, but that's untrue without some SERIOUS case modding.

Right now, I'm really digging the NZXT Phantom 820 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-097-_-Product) I'm guessing (at that price) that it makes the replacement of the OEM fans with Noctua ones, or adding some more not worth it? Money isn't an issue.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Still haven't made my decision, except for the part that the CPU cooler is probably going to be a NZWT X61 Kraken. Unfortunately, PC parts picker says that it's incompatible with the Rosewill Blackhawk. NZWT official documentation is somewhat confusing with that regard: for x60: (http://www.nzxt.com/uploads/downloads/manuals/Kraken_Compatibility_Guide_09.4.2013.pdf) & x61: (http://www.nzxt.com/uploads/downloads/miscellaneous/Kraken_Series_Compatibility_Guide_10.22.2014.pdf) PCPP also reports the H100i as being compatible with the Blackhawk, but that's untrue without some SERIOUS case modding.

Right now, I'm really digging the NZXT Phantom 820 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-097-_-Product) I'm guessing (at that price) that it makes the replacement of the OEM fans with Noctua ones, or adding some more not worth it? Money isn't an issue.

I've always been fond of spending no more than I have to for a computer-building project. I'm even more inclined to spend money to achieve specific cooling and performance objectives, and I'm generally indifferent to the "bling" factor.

I wouldn't hesitate to replace fans to get less noise, more CFM, thermal fan-control. Again -- "bling" isn't much of a consideration for me.

 

[Raskolnikov]

What do you guys think (too many fans? I have no f**king clue what I'm doing?):

Top: 2 x Noctua NF-A14 PWM
Front: 1x Cooler Master MegaFlow 200
Bottom: 2 x Noctua NF-A14 PWM
Side: 1x Cooler Master MegaFlow 200
Pivot: 1 x Noctua NF-A14 PWM

Based on: http://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/96-phantom-820-full-

I asked my techie about water cooling. If he's familiar I'm probably going that route instead.

 

[Cerb]

Avoid a side fan, if possible. If that CM is the same 200m that comes with their cases, D:.

IMO, if you're getting that case, try it as is, maybe with a fan controller added, and decide what more to do. I don't know how NZXT's 200m case fans are, but I'd bet good money they're acoustically superior to Cooler Master's. You want to be used to the case, or be dealing with someone who is, before deciding on fans before purchase. In fact, even if you are, you might not get the right ones (I did just that, getting NF-S12As, based on common wisdom, to find that NF-P12 were what I should have gotten for case fans, recently).

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The Phantom has been show-cased in several Maximum PC DIY build-it recipes.

The CM 200's are relatively limp compared to some others. There is an NZXT 200mm model rated to push 166 CFM, rifle bearing, manageable noise. I think it has a top-end of 1,300 RPM.

The X61 Kraken, if I'm not mistaken, is a 140x280mm assembly -- probably using two 140x25mm fans on one side -- possibly accommodating a pair on each side. It did not perform as well as the CM Nepton 280, but as well or better than the H100 or H110 (I'm not sure).

It is possible to use what seems like "a lot of fans" for water-cooling. Other fans, like the 200mm units, don't really add much to the possible total for noise or power-draw, and might help -- depending on your cooling strategy for the radiator(s).

If my babble needs correction here, I can only say I was reading about the Kraken today, and that's what I remember.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Avoid a side fan, if possible. If that CM is the same 200m that comes with their cases, D:.

IMO, if you're getting that case, try it as is, maybe with a fan controller added, and decide what more to do. I don't know how NZXT's 200m case fans are, but I'd bet good money they're acoustically superior to Cooler Master's. You want to be used to the case, or be dealing with someone who is, before deciding on fans before purchase. In fact, even if you are, you might not get the right ones (I did just that, getting NF-S12As, based on common wisdom, to find that NF-P12 were what I should have gotten for case fans, recently).

Read many places that the NZXT 200mm were very loud and complicated to install since they are apparently only 192mm. There doesn't seem to be much competition for the 200mm market, but according to Newegg reviews, (from what I remember - their servers are running on a 56k modem today) the Cooler Master ones are amongst the best.

I just read the following: "Pricy but no real choice as NZXT phantom only takes NZXT fans" Please say it isn't true?

The Phantom has been show-cased in several Maximum PC DIY build-it recipes.

The CM 200's are relatively limp compared to some others. There is an NZXT 200mm model rated to push 166 CFM, rifle bearing, manageable noise. I think it has a top-end of 1,300 RPM.

The X61 Kraken, if I'm not mistaken, is a 140x280mm assembly -- probably using two 140x25mm fans on one side -- possibly accommodating a pair on each side. It did not perform as well as the CM Nepton 280, but as well or better than the H100 or H110 (I'm not sure).

It is possible to use what seems like "a lot of fans" for water-cooling. Other fans, like the 200mm units, don't really add much to the possible total for noise or power-draw, and might help -- depending on your cooling strategy for the radiator(s).

If my babble needs correction here, I can only say I was reading about the Kraken today, and that's what I remember.

The Nepton is better than the x60 according to this: https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa...jCa9e_5X3u0Qgefzw&sig2=o90lBC7enNdQrT2m2sGoHg but the x61 seems to have the upper hand: http://elchapuzasinformatico.com/2014/09/review-nzxt-kraken-x61/5/

 

[james1701]

http://www.shop.thefurnaceoutlet.co...02IsEL_LZnLuTwy6mtvrCxHZIb6NGRx05pBoCLhjw_wcB

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...wBGhoCpCbw_wcB

Why not change over to something like the H105, clean up the case wiring for a better air path, and pick up a few quiet edition Corsair fans. You might pick up some speed reducers for the fans in your case, or turn them down with mobo control, or even get a fan controller.