How come most Americans are poor?

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Queasy
BTW, poor compared to what? Even poor Americans enjoy a standard of living much higher than the rest of the world...including Europe.

hahahaha. I read that "standard of living" all the time. Its total BOLLOCKS.

Dont get me wrong, as someone who lived 7+ years in the states its NOT my intention to bash the usa. But..please define "standard of living" ?

As an example, and i can ONLY speak for Germany now:

* health care, health insurance, social security, unemployment security
NO WAY IN HELL the us comes even close there. We pay A LOT of taxes, i totally agree....but....we also get something BACK from the taxes we pay....in the US those go to IRAQ.

* Public Transportation

*Price of groceries
Germany is known to have VERY LOW priced grocery discounters. Thats one reason Walmart FAILED in Germany since they couldnt compete with the low margins here. (This was new to me too)


* CERTAIN internet infrastructure.
Most/Many people in Europe have a 16MB/1MB DSL line....i havent even SEEN speeds like that advertized ANYWHERE over in the US...be it comcast or whatever provider i had....

Give me examples please for "higher standard of living" in the us


Edit: Yes...i agree...my personal impression is that the MIDDLECLASS is big in the states..many people DO have average jobs, barely paying bills etc..etc. Not really "poor" tho. But then there ARE many really poor people since (as said) things like unemployment insurance etc. are as good as nonexistent.

And...i dont need to mention that very known term "working poor"...the many people who work hard 40+ hrs but STILL are poor because the jobs just pay **** and no H/Ins.

 

[huberm]

please travel the world to see what poor really is

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: Queasy
BTW, poor compared to what? Even poor Americans enjoy a standard of living much higher than the rest of the world...including Europe.

hahahaha. I read that "standard of living" all the time. Its total BOLLOCKS.

Dont get me wrong, as someone who lived 7+ years in the states its NOT my intention to bash the usa. But..please define "standard of living" ?

As an example, and i can ONLY speak for Germany now:

* health care, health insurance, social security, unemployment security
NO WAY IN HELL the us comes even close there. We pay A LOT of taxes, i totally agree....but....we also get something BACK from the taxes we pay....in the US those go to IRAQ.

* Public Transportation

*Price of groceries
Germany is known to have VERY LOW priced grocery discounters. Thats one reason Walmart FAILED in Germany since they couldnt compete with the low margins here. (This was new to me too)


* CERTAIN internet infrastructure.
Most/Many people in Europe have a 16MB/1MB DSL line....i havent even SEEN speeds like that advertized ANYWHERE over in the US...be it comcast or whatever provider i had....

Give me examples please for "higher standard of living" in the us


Edit: Yes...i agree...my personal impression is that the MIDDLECLASS is big in the states..many people DO have average jobs, barely paying bills etc..etc. Not really "poor" tho. But then there ARE many really poor people since (as said) things like unemployment insurance etc. are as good as nonexistent.

And...i dont need to mention that very known term "working poor"...the many people who work hard 40+ hrs but STILL are poor because the jobs just pay **** and no H/Ins.

You are using categories that the United States can never compete in.

Internet infrastructure & public transportation - The US population density is FAR lower that that of most of Europe. We simply can't have a subway system anywhere in Wisconsin as there are not enough people to use it. Remember, we are 10+ times the size of Germany. Putting in a public transportation system would be a waste of resources. But apparently that is what you would prefer.

As far as internet infrastructure goes, the same problem applies. We have more communication lines in Wisconsin than you have in all of Germany. Why? Because our population is so spread out. Upgrading those lines is a huge investment.

The fact that you use these categories indicates that you have no desire to compare things fairly. That being the case, I will say

OMG the US is so much better because we have 100x the length of roads that Germany has WTFBBQ!!!one!!!one!

What a fvcking moron.



We too get something back from our taxes. We have the best national defense in the world.

Our groceries may be more (which is odd, because my friends in Europe say theirs are more), but that is simply because they are subsidized less than yours. You are still paying the full price regardless.

healthcare and related services - This gets back to the timeless debate. Nobody has been able to conclusively prove which system is better. There are a couple dozen threads on this if you want to debate it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: malG
I've been to New York and California and I see large numbers of homeless people sleeping on the streets. Why is this commonplace in America?

Define large numbers? There are a lot in places like Frisco, LA and San Jose but compared to the over all population it's a rather significant amount. Most of those are either mentally ill (not a healthy sign of society that they are abandoned like that) or substance abusers. The real number of them out on the street because of economic hardship is the vast minority of those on the street (which still shouldn't be happening)

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: novasatori

your highest marginal tax rate is 10% higher than the highest American marginal tax bracket.

Australian - 15 - 30 - 40 - 45 %s
USA - 10 - 15- 25 - 28 - 33 -35 %s

so if you make 75k+ you get taxed 40% in aus
in the united states that's lowest bracket of 28% marginal rate.

we have much lower marginal taxes than AUS

You're right but unlike in America, we get most of that back through subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

Did I mention that our government also pays out a generous retirement allowance?

Well, I hope you are very happy with your "allowances". Most of us Americans just have a different belief on what government is supposed to do for you, and your talk of allowances and handouts sounds repugnant to alot of us.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Mrfrog840

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Most Americans are "poor" because they insist on living beyond their means. They want instant gratification when it comes to expensive purchases. Buy now, pay later with interest!

should be at the top with that answer..

Couldn't agree more

while true, I'd rather have gratification than... nothing but a huge pile of money doing nothing... except to make more money... to buy nothing. I've said this time and again... the "wealthy" people who drive old cars and have plain jane clothes... what are they working so hard for ?

The living beyond their means part... so long as they don't get repo'd or foreclosed... it's all good.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: tasmanian
Americans arnt poor. Their low income. Most of America is middle class and brings in 40k+ a year.

This makes me cry... In portugal a nice average income is 12-15 K a year... WTF anyone that makes that much here is instantly popular and rich

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: malG
I've been to New York and California and I see large numbers of homeless people sleeping on the streets. Why is this commonplace in America?

Define large numbers? There are a lot in places like Frisco, LA and San Jose but compared to the over all population it's a rather significant amount. Most of those are either mentally ill (not a healthy sign of society that they are abandoned like that) or substance abusers. The real number of them out on the street because of economic hardship is the vast minority of those on the street (which still shouldn't be happening)

It doesn't help when the facilities that were set up to help folks that were truly suffering from mental illness were shut down due to the treatment received there being categorized as "cruel and unusual." Yes, there were some bad apples, but they shouldn't have trashed the whole system.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: malG
I've been to New York and California and I see large numbers of homeless people sleeping on the streets. Why is this commonplace in America?

The homeless rates are in line with what you would expect. In fact, based on the numbers here the rate is half of that in Australia.

The Australian Bureau of Statistics counts boarding house and trailer park residents as homeless. If you were to count American homelessness by the Australian Bureau of Statistics standard, then there would be tens of millions of homeless Americans.

 

[DrPizza]

one source
another source
The US ranks near the top, but Australia ranks even higher than the US.

another quality of life source (If you're going to look at only once source, I recommend this one.)

As far as healthcare - some of you seem to believe that having the most and most expensive equipment leads to the best healthcare. In the US, there's more emphasis on treating symptoms and disease than there is on avoiding them in the first place. You do the googling (I've got to go out and feed my animals!), but the US ranks far from first place in terms of healthy life expectancy, that is, healthy years where people can enjoy their life, rather than lingering for a few years in a nursing home. In fact, the US isn't even in the top 20 for life expectancies!

The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th .

(From World Health Organization)
see also the WHO's statistics
andthe world health report from WHO

But, the US ranks first in responsiveness in health systems! Big whoopty doo. We get to see the doctor sooner and get more expensive testing done... we still don't receive the best healthcare.

National pride is wonderful, and the US is a great place to live. But maybe before you decide that we have the best systems in place, you might want to look a little more closely at other places. Are we the best? No. Is the US among the best places to live? Yes. Is Australia a better place to live? For the average person, probably.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

By the way, OP, when you talk about money you receive in Australia... is that in Australian dollars?

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
By the way, OP, when you talk about money you receive in Australia... is that in Australian dollars?

The Australian dollar buys 82 US cents, near its 17-year high and gaining fast on the US dollar.

More importantly, there are no working poor people in Australia. Minimum wage is $16/hour for adult casual employees but I don't know of anybody here working for minimum wage. My local BigW store (Walmart equivalant) pays $19/hour (more for night shift) for casual employees.

Also, the Australian government pays for hospital and medical services. Medicare covers ALL Australians, it pays the entire cost of treatment in a public hospital, and reimburses for visits to doctors. Can you say the same for American healthcare?

 

[Fenixgoon]

americans are financially irresponsible and drowning in debt.

 

[txrandom]

If Australia had tons of illegals crossing into their borders everyday, you'd be having the same problems. Those damn aliens!

 

[erickj92]

Becasue the idots in this country keep sending our jobs to Mexico because they work for less... IT MAKES ME SOO MAD!!!

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Someone seems mighty insecure about their own homeland. Don't be jealous, be thankful.

 

[malG]

Crikey! I just discovered that school dropouts working as cashiers ($19/hour) at BigW stores (Aussie Wal-Mart equivalent) get paid as much as Wal-Mart assistant managers. No wonder there are so many working poor in America :Q

 

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Define poor.

If you're talking about in debt, I believe that a lot of it is because instead of trying to make something of their lives and live responsibly, they pop out a few kids, take out an outrageous mortgage, and buy a couple of cars that they can't afford.

Now if you're talking living in the projects, well, it's way too late at night to get into that one. :beer:

Yep. Americans love the power of plastic and paying it off later, hence why "poor" is "credit-card debt". Watch American TV (if you can). Credit card and credit-help commercials are really common. Filing for bankruptcy is a big thing, too.

 

[Eli]

Poor is realitive.

Even the poorest americans are rich compared to most of the World's population.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Eli
Poor is realitive.

Even the poorest americans are rich compared to most of the World's population.

True, but that statement does fail to take into account the cost of living. I simply can't find any apartment no matter how small under $500/month here. That $500/month could fully support a dozen families in other countries.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Eli
Poor is realitive.

Even the poorest americans are rich compared to most of the World's population.

True, but that statement does fail to take into account the cost of living. I simply can't find any apartment no matter how small under $500/month here. That $500/month could fully support a dozen families in other countries.

I agree, when I went to Thailand last year with a measly AU $1k, I was treated like a king. I partied every day and lived and ate like a king for a month

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: malG
Crikey! I just discovered that school dropouts working as cashiers ($19/hour) at BigW stores (Aussie Wal-Mart equivalent) get paid as much as Wal-Mart assistant managers. No wonder there are so many working poor in America :Q

Actually, here walmart managers are salary and make less than $11/hour on average when you consider their very high hours.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: malG
[The Australian Bureau of Statistics counts boarding house and trailer park residents as homeless. If you were to count American homelessness by the Australian Bureau of Statistics standard, then there would be tens of millions of homeless Americans.

Actually the Australian Bureau of Statistics does not count persons living in trailer parks among its absolute and relative homeless Census statistics, unless those trailer parks are operated publicly or privately as temporary housing assistance and/or boarding houses, which is same criteria included in official US homeless statistics. Persons living in trailer parks would be classified as "marginally housed", not homeless. From the ABS:

ABS DEFINITION OF HOMELESSNESS FOR THE CENSUS

The definition used by the ABS has been adopted from that proposed by Chamberlain and MacKenzie (1992) and divides homeless people into two groups for operational purposes:

Absolute homeless (primary homeless): People without conventional accommodation (living on the streets, in deserted buildings, improvised dwellings, in parks, etc.).

Relative homeless (secondary and tertiary homeless): People staying in boarding houses, people using Supported Accommodation Assistance Program (SAAP) and other similar emergency accommodation services, or people with no secure accommodation staying temporarily with friends or relatives in private dwellings.

A third group of homeless people, the marginally housed, is not operationally specified in the Census.

If the US included those living in trailers, it would count millions of very well-to-do retirees living in affluent retirement communities such as those in Florida and Texas, including trailers worth more than one million dollars.

It would also have to count the booming RV culture in the United States, where very well-off retirees often sell their fixed home and purchase a luxury motor home/recreational vehicle costing upwards of a half-million dollars.

It is widely accepted that the homeless rate in the US is around 1% of the population at any given time, compared to .5% of the population in Australia according to your census figures (100,000 persons in 2001).

80% of those counted as homeless in the United States at any given time experience homelessness for less than three weeks. Only 10% are chronically homeless.

Again, the comparison is utterly moronic. Here are a few major differences between our countries...

Population (July 2006):

AUS = 20,264,082

USA = 298,444,215

Ethnicity (*):

AUS = white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%

USA = white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)

(*) In the USA, hispanics are counted as white, black, or asian, unlike Australia, where 92% white means lilly freaking Anglo-Saxon Honkey white


There are some significant political differences as well that results in a lot of resources being controlled or managed in a non-cohesive way as far as national planning and policy goes. Australia is one nation (of white people...see above), the United States is 50 independent states and highly mixed ethnicity.

We probably have more roads, highways, and rails in California - one state - than your entire country. Australia's popluation is largely metropolitan where we are spread all over the freaking place. You don't have phone, electricity, or any other services including decent roads throughout a vast portion of your country.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: malG
I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

Our "poor" households usually have multiple televisions, a cell phone, air conditioning, and multiple cars.

I have relatives in the Philippines who, by local standards, are considered very well-off and they have none of those things.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: malG
I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

um.. poor? our poor are fat, and have cable