How come most Americans are poor?

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: malG
Here's another example of Australian government generosity which is unheard of in America; we get $4k for each newborn and get a sizeable allowance to take care of the child till they're 16!

What are the tax rates in Australia?

 

[montanafan]

Who says most Americans are poor?

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html</a>

Per capita income:

Australia - $32,900
USA - $43,500

But yes, most Americans live beyond their means and save or invest little to none.

 

[tcsenter]

I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

Well a good many of the 'impoverished' here drive late model SUVs and extended cab pickups, often sporting thousands of dollars in custom accessories. They can afford a luxury/sport vehicle and $80 per week in fuel but can't afford to take their children to a family doctor, using the emergency room instead.

How do you define poor...wasting most of your income during your prime wage-earning years on materialistic pursuits and instant gratification instead of savings, home ownership, and retirement?

OK, well, Americans are extremely impoverished by that definition.

Here are a few differences...

Population (July 2006):

AUS = 20,264,082

USA = 298,444,215

Ethnicity (*):

AUS = white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%

USA = white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)

(*) In the USA, hispanics are counted as white, black, or asian, unlike Australia, where 92% white means lilly freaking Anglo-Saxon Honkey white

There are some significant political differences as well that results in a lot of resources being controlled or managed in a non-cohesive way as far as national planning and policy goes. Australia is one nation (of white people...see above), the United States is 50 independent states and highly mixed ethnicity.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Yeah, but you're still paying for it.

You're right but our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries so why can't the American government be generous to their citizens?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Yeah, but you're still paying for it.

You're right but our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries so why can't the American government be generous to their citizens?

Care to post these numbers? It's 3AM and I don't have the energy to go digging for them.

My guess would be that America does most of your defense spending for you.

This is what we're spending our money on. Lots of social programs in there.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Yeah, but you're still paying for it.

You're right but our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries so why can't the American government be generous to their citizens?

Why does the Australian government feel the need to take money away from their citizens and give it to other citizens? Australians are being taxed too much if the Australian government can afford to hand out money.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

I'm such a "generous" guy, I think I am going to go redistribute some wealth from the rich to ME.

 

[ctcsoft]

most americans are not poor. they are just dumb with their money.

- we live beyond our means
- we eat out ALL THE TIME.
- gotta keep up with the Jones'
- don't know how to invest or save
- lots of people think vonage is a good deal at $25/mo. - point here is that most do not shop around or look for ways to save money. most shop and pay retail prices.
- most pop out like 3-4 kids without thinking or caring. then the gov't has their back with BIG tax refunds.

Most who are poor, choose to be poor. They spend recklessly, might have a drug or gambling habit, or just a compulsive shopping habbit. Rack up credit card debt they cannot and won't payoff ever.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Queasy

What are the tax rates in Australia?

Income tax in Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia

Again, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries and we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: malG
You're right but our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries so why can't the American government be generous to their citizens?

We spend a shitload of money on national defense. When I say a shitload, I mean a shitload. The US spends nearly twice of Australia's federal budget on national defense alone.

 

[montanafan]

Oh, and when it comes to Economic Aid to other countries:

Australia $894 million
USA $6.9 billion

And that's just the government, doesn't include private donations.

National Defense:

Australia $17.8 billion
USA $518.1 billion



Maybe that's where some of the money's going?

 

[Ricemarine]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
(*) In the USA, hispanics are counted as white, black, or asian, unlike Australia, where 92% white means lilly freaking Anglo-Saxon Honkey white

Are you serious?...

Edit:, Just checked the 2000 Census, whoa. Link.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Queasy

What are the tax rates in Australia?

Income tax in Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia

Again, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries and we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

No such thing as "free" healthcare. I'm not familiar with Australia's healthcare system but other "free" healthcare systems in Canada and Europe suffer from horrendous service compared to what you get in America...long waits, etc.

Look at Chaotic42's post above. Look at all the social programs that American tax dollars are spent on (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment & Welfare, Education& Training, etc etc etc).

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Queasy

What are the tax rates in Australia?

Income tax in Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia

Again, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries and we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

your highest marginal tax rate is 10% higher than the highest American marginal tax bracket.

Australian - 15 - 30 - 40 - 45 %s
USA - 10 - 15- 25 - 28 - 33 -35 %s

so if you make 75k+ you get taxed 40% in aus
in the united states that's lowest bracket of 28% marginal rate.

we have much lower marginal taxes than AUS

 

[tcsenter]

Again, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries and we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

You have 20 million people. There are some wealthy individuals in the USA who could afford to subsidize college tuition, health care, and great social security for a large percentage of your population.

We probably have more roads, highways, and rails in California - one state - than your entire country. Australia's popluation is largely metropolitan where we are spread all over the freaking place. You don't have phone, electricity, or any other services including decent roads throughout a vast portion of your country. We do.

Your comparison is moronic. Why does Family A with two children have better financial stability and less debt than Family B with 20 children?

Are you serious?...

Edit:, Just checked the 2000 Census, whoa. Link.

The figures I used were from the CIA Factbook:

note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Queasy

No such thing as "free" healthcare. I'm not familiar with Australia's healthcare system but other "free" healthcare systems in Canada and Europe suffer from horrendous service compared to what you get in America...long waits, etc.

There's a bit of a wait in Aussie hospitals but waiting for an hour for a free service is not that bad. It's no where near horrendous.

Here's an interesting article on Australia from an International Living Magazine.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Mo0o
We also give the most in terms of aid i think

The Israeli government is the largest recipient of US financial aid in the world, receiving over one-third of total US aid to foreign countries, even though Israel?s population comprises just .001% of the world?s population and has one the world?s highest per capita incomes.

Why so much aid to Israel and why not help poor Americans?

He means private donations, not gov't donations.

unrelated to your post: are you retarded?

lol that's exactly what I thought as soon as i read OP, and it's a VERY relevant question.

Your college tuition, healthcare, and SS is NOT free. The government is taxing you (then taking their bureaucratic take off the top) then FORCING you to use their colleges, shvtty socialist healthcare that makes you wait while you die, and crap ass retirement you can't live off.

And 45% top rate taxation is NOT low.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: novasatori

your highest marginal tax rate is 10% higher than the highest American marginal tax bracket.

Australian - 15 - 30 - 40 - 45 %s
USA - 10 - 15- 25 - 28 - 33 -35 %s

so if you make 75k+ you get taxed 40% in aus
in the united states that's lowest bracket of 28% marginal rate.

we have much lower marginal taxes than AUS

You're right but unlike in America, we get most of that back through subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

Did I mention that our government also pays out a generous retirement allowance?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: malG
You're right but unlike in America, we get most of that back through subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

Did I mention that our government also pays out a generous retirement allowance?

Why not just let you keep it and make your own decisions about what to spend it on? Why should someone who has worked hard to earn $100K/yr have to pay for someone who decides that they want a free ride?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: novasatori

your highest marginal tax rate is 10% higher than the highest American marginal tax bracket.

Australian - 15 - 30 - 40 - 45 %s
USA - 10 - 15- 25 - 28 - 33 -35 %s

so if you make 75k+ you get taxed 40% in aus
in the united states that's lowest bracket of 28% marginal rate.

we have much lower marginal taxes than AUS

You're right but unlike in America, we get most of that back through subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security.

Did I mention that our government also pays out a generous retirement allowance?

What if I want to purchase my OWN college, buy my OWN health insurance, and fund my OWN retirement? Why should I dilute 70% of my money through bureaucracy? It's called FREEDOM - freedom to choose our own shvt. Apparently your government thinks you are too retarded to choose your own colleges, doctors, and retirement plan, so they do it for you.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: JS80
crap ass retirement you can't live off

For an Aussie pensioner, couples get almost $1k per fortnight in retirement benefits plus pharmaceutical allowance, rent assistance and etc. Do you get that much in America?

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: malG
Why so much aid to Israel and why not help poor Americans?

Probably because Israel is an ally in a very resource-rich but hostile area. We really need someone to come along and push for the development of fuel-cell technology and fusion power. Then we can pull out of the Middle East and let them be.

Melatonin must be kicking in.

You?ve just hit the nail on the head. The sooner we find and utilise alternatives to oil the better.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: JS80
crap ass retirement you can't live off

For an Aussie pensioner, couples get almost $1k per fortnight in retirement benefits plus pharmaceutical allowance, rent assistance and etc. Do you get that much in America?

What part of funding one's own retirement don't you get? My retirement fund should earn more than $1k per "fornight" solely on interest :roll:

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: malG
For an Aussie pensioner, couples get almost $1k per fortnight in retirement benefits plus pharmaceutical allowance, rent assistance and etc. Do you get that much in America?

What do you not understand about this? You're paying for it. You'd have that money anyway if you weren't taxed in the first place, so why bother doing it? Why not just dramatically lower taxes and put people in charge of their own futures? What if I could invest wisely and take that same money that I paid in taxes to get the $2000/mo and use my investments to make $4000/mo? Why is it the government's place to decide these things?

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: JS80

What if I want to purchase my OWN college, buy my OWN health insurance, and fund my OWN retirement? Why should I dilute 70% of my money through bureaucracy? It's called FREEDOM - freedom to choose our own shvt. Apparently your government thinks you are too retarded to choose your own colleges, doctors, and retirement plan, so they do it for you.

You can choose to go to any college in Australia, public or private and the government will subsidise (HECS) the tuition fee. You can buy your own health insurance and receive a medicare rebate on your tax. You can also fund your own retirement. Hence there is FREEDOM in every aspect.