Why you be hatin on the speech though, cuzz. Yall is straight trippin bout this here grammar type shizz.
EDIT: Another vote for we need a Lifer is an idiot option. Stereotyping this as a black thing should be frowned upon.
EDIT: Another vote for we need a Lifer is an idiot option. Stereotyping this as a black thing should be frowned upon.
You cant take every moron you see on tv that has been prepackaged to act that way and make a generaliztaion of all black people.
-Xionide
Fredtam - I am not going to call you a racist. I think many of your claims are valid. I think, however, that you misinterpreted parts of my post. I am NOT at all for lowering standards. I laughed at the governor of Colorado this year as he celebrated the test scores that have come up in the state. I didn't believe it (having taught at the "most improved" high school, and researched to discover that the reading score scale was lowered to effectively "raise" the performance level.
Disclaimer: I usually don't talk education with armchair experts because, regardless of what they may think, as a trained professional I actually DO know more than they do about teaching.
My approach to teaching writing is to give the students lots of "low-stakes" writing opportunites, where they are allowed to write without worrying about spelling, run-on sentences, proper usage, etc. HOWEVER, this is very simply a starting point, to get them comfortable with writing. (Most of these students hate writing because they have been told for years that they are "bad writers," because they have poor spelling skills or even bad handwriting.) Once the comfort level is increased, we then focus heavily on improving the writing and creaitng polished products. We focus not only on usage and grammar and spelling, but very much on content. I focus primarily on thinking skills and self-evaluation.
I focus so much on building the comfort level of students in non-threatening ways because so many of them have already given up on the system, because they have already been told time and time again that they don't fit. By the end of the year, many of my kids have decided they like writing, and whether you or anyone else believe it, that's half the battle right there.
And for those kids that would read rather Low Rider magazine during class... I am always VERY sure to tell them that they will never be able to afford their dream cars if they fail eighth grade English.
Disclaimer: I usually don't talk education with armchair experts because, regardless of what they may think, as a trained professional I actually DO know more than they do about teaching.
My approach to teaching writing is to give the students lots of "low-stakes" writing opportunites, where they are allowed to write without worrying about spelling, run-on sentences, proper usage, etc. HOWEVER, this is very simply a starting point, to get them comfortable with writing. (Most of these students hate writing because they have been told for years that they are "bad writers," because they have poor spelling skills or even bad handwriting.) Once the comfort level is increased, we then focus heavily on improving the writing and creaitng polished products. We focus not only on usage and grammar and spelling, but very much on content. I focus primarily on thinking skills and self-evaluation.
I focus so much on building the comfort level of students in non-threatening ways because so many of them have already given up on the system, because they have already been told time and time again that they don't fit. By the end of the year, many of my kids have decided they like writing, and whether you or anyone else believe it, that's half the battle right there.
And for those kids that would read rather Low Rider magazine during class... I am always VERY sure to tell them that they will never be able to afford their dream cars if they fail eighth grade English.
KaBudokan, thanks for an excellent post.
I am actually not a native speaker of the language, but I have been studying and speaking it for over a decade now so in a way I feel like it is my 2nd mother tongue. I've come to like English very much, I cherish it, and also want to protect it. Therefore I try to pay as much attention as possible when I write or speak so that I do not contribute to further degrading it by perpetuating common mistakes. I cringe every time I see they're/there/their mixed up, or definitely spelt as "definately".
However, I also try to avoid being too nitpicky, so I do not go around correcting minor mistakes (except when I teach), and I try to accept that language IS changing constantly. If it were unchangeable we could not express new ideas and concepts, we could not describe new discoveries. Scientists come up with new words everyday. Web, mail and chat have gained new meaning in the last couple decades, and some words have completely lost their original meaning. Wanting to keep English (or any other language) in its present form and rejecting changes is equal to rejecting reality itself. We have to go with the flow. Who should have the right to decide, if not the people who use a language everyday, which new words or expressions are valid additions to it? Naturally there are certain additions of which I would love to rid our world, but how? Should some government agency be in control of language and enforce proper use? That is about the most absurd thing I have thought of in quite a long time...
But, I really liked what KaBudokan said because I can identify with what he/she is trying to teach his/her kids. I was raised in a rural part of my country where folks speak a heavy dialect that most would label as unintelligent, which is far from the truth, but that is the reality of things. Thanks to my parents (both of them well-educated people), though, and some effort on my part, I learned to speak "properly", and although I cannot be 100% sure I think it helped me a lot with fitting in once I left my little country town. You can scream all you want that you should not be required to conform or be like sheep, but then that will not help you land a job at a respected computer firm or a bank, will it? Speaking clean English, on the other hand, will take you much further.
<EDIT>Oh, the irony! Corrected grammar.</EDIT>
I am actually not a native speaker of the language, but I have been studying and speaking it for over a decade now so in a way I feel like it is my 2nd mother tongue. I've come to like English very much, I cherish it, and also want to protect it. Therefore I try to pay as much attention as possible when I write or speak so that I do not contribute to further degrading it by perpetuating common mistakes. I cringe every time I see they're/there/their mixed up, or definitely spelt as "definately".
However, I also try to avoid being too nitpicky, so I do not go around correcting minor mistakes (except when I teach), and I try to accept that language IS changing constantly. If it were unchangeable we could not express new ideas and concepts, we could not describe new discoveries. Scientists come up with new words everyday. Web, mail and chat have gained new meaning in the last couple decades, and some words have completely lost their original meaning. Wanting to keep English (or any other language) in its present form and rejecting changes is equal to rejecting reality itself. We have to go with the flow. Who should have the right to decide, if not the people who use a language everyday, which new words or expressions are valid additions to it? Naturally there are certain additions of which I would love to rid our world, but how? Should some government agency be in control of language and enforce proper use? That is about the most absurd thing I have thought of in quite a long time...
But, I really liked what KaBudokan said because I can identify with what he/she is trying to teach his/her kids. I was raised in a rural part of my country where folks speak a heavy dialect that most would label as unintelligent, which is far from the truth, but that is the reality of things. Thanks to my parents (both of them well-educated people), though, and some effort on my part, I learned to speak "properly", and although I cannot be 100% sure I think it helped me a lot with fitting in once I left my little country town. You can scream all you want that you should not be required to conform or be like sheep, but then that will not help you land a job at a respected computer firm or a bank, will it? Speaking clean English, on the other hand, will take you much further.
<EDIT>Oh, the irony! Corrected grammar.
</EDIT>Feel Free! I am qualified to teach and in fact tutor kids in science. What you are doing is admirable since it seems you are working with students the system has failed. I hope you took no offense with my post. I guess my point is you are having to take the time to teach those kids basic reading skills when they should be trying to figure out what the hell Shakespeare is saying. This is most likely the result of teachers before you not having the desire to see them succeed and assuming that they have the desire at a young age to learn along with MTV raising them at home. Kids have to constantly be pushed to learn because they will not do it no their own. It is the same reason we generally don't punish kids for crime because they do not fully understand the result. If someone had told me what real life was like in 8'th grade and I would have had the capacity to understand it you can bet I would have been studying much harder in hopes of having a more rewarding life than I do today.
I would understand if the general speakers of this new tongue were new to the country and the language as in your situation but they are not. Dialects and languages formed out of seperation and are kept out of pride for heritage. Even the differences in the way Americans speak in different regions of the country is due to seperation before mass media. Language barriers and mistranslations contribute to fights in the street all the way up to wars and now is not the time to create new ones to add to the problem. I am not saying everyone should speak English. I do not want to be fifty and have to learn several versions of english to be able to communicate with people in other states. I know this is reaching a bit (only due to mass media) but I hope it served the purpose of making my point.
fredtam, I am not quite sure where you see a difference between your opinion and mine...
<EDIT>To clarify, in the bit you quoted, I was actually saying that conformity to an official version of a language was necessary to get by in the adult world. </EDIT>
<EDIT>To clarify, in the bit you quoted, I was actually saying that conformity to an official version of a language was necessary to get by in the adult world. </EDIT>
Not differing just adding trying to make things cohesive in case things got off on a tangent while I was slowly typing.
Gothca! :music:
<EDIT>By which I mean, I understand you! (Trying to avoid a streetfight caused by a misunderstanding
)</EDIT>Sarcasm on>: It is genetic. The gene for grammar, not speaking the way you do, is located on the same chromosome as the genes for dark skin, kinky hair, and love of fried chicken.> Sarcasm off
yes, i'd agree... though i would notice that more often than not, the whites or the asians that do it can turn it off or on... but the blacks that do speak that way... do not/cannot... naah mean?
'yous' usually comes from spanish folk and this is because in spanish there is, 'usted' and 'ustedes' , that is, you and yous.
(if my spanish is still remembered)
Gee these are new to me and I live in Texas. And how exactly does one misuse the words "coke" and "pop"? Only Yankees call soda "pop". And ya'll happens to be in the dictionary so I guess that one is moot too.
BTW....why do Black people here in Texas call it a "credick" card and not a "credit" card?
DUDE ARE YOU EVEN READING THE POSTS, WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU FROM, BECAUSE IN AMHERST MA, I DON'T KNOW ANY BLACK PEOPLE WHO SPEAK LIKE THAT. AND SINCE I AM BLACK I SHOULD KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. BY THE WAY TIME TO GET SOME SENSITIVITY TRAINING, I HOPE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS WE DON'T WANT ANYMORE IDIOTS IN THE WORLD TELLING US HOW WE SHOULD ACT ? OR STEREOTYPE US BECAUSE A SMALL MINORITY OF BLACKS MIGHT ACT LIKE THAT. I WROTE THIS IN UPPERCASE JUST IN CASE LIFER DECIDES TO READ THE POSTS.
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