How come black people use "were" and "was" incorrectly all the time?

[tcsenter]

To imply that black people are wrongfully in jail implies four scenarios.

1.) A white is robbed (any crime) by a white and doesn't call the police because the criminal was white.

lol! That reminded me of a classic SNL skit of Eddie Murphy's, where he pretends for purposes of an experiment to pose as a white guy. He goes to a make-up artist who then turns him into a white male using make-up and a wig and stuff. Then he dresses in a nice business suit and goes walking through the city. People come up and just give him stuff for free. Everyone is really nice to him. He goes to buy a newspaper, tries to hand the store owner some money, and the owner responds "No no, take it. Its free." Hilarious!

Of course, the skit was a brilliant satire on the notion that pennies fall from heaven when you're white but not when you're black.

Think there are no institutions; think about Trent Lott, the ex-republican house leader. He has cousins in the more conservative KKK, he has been a key player in perpetuating certain American ideals. He has roots in the rural segregationist south.

Trent Lott was born in segregated 'Burning' Mississippi, its not like he chose to 'have roots' there. If you're born in the same region he was, in the same era he was, and you're white, you're going to have cousins or neighbors who are members of the KKK.

 

[jpbushido99]

I just graduated with a JD and am studying for the bar right now (actually I'm not, which is why this has to be my last post so I don't fail) and I have some familiarity with the topic.

Anyway, I agree that it is possible blacks get harsher sentencing. BUT I would have to see an apples to apples comparison. Often, these figures are compiled by those trying to prove a point and leave out such important facts as repeat offenders, probationary status, or degrees of the individual crimes where applicable.

I took a class called White Collar Crime in law school. The professor provided us with a govt prepared chart presenting figures on imprisonment and for what crimes the imprisionment was for, broken down by race and gender. Also, the professor was a black woman, so there was no hokey pokey going on with the selection of the chart.

Basically, blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes which are much more disfavored by society and therefore carry harsher sentences. That has always been true (the harsher sentencing that is) - people just want to feel that their bodies will be safe. The charts we were presented with actually indicated hispanics as the most imprisioned group and some categories with whites as the majority class. It all depends on the crime.

If whites commit more crimes that carry less harsh sentencing what can we do? We can't ask whites to begin committing more violent crimes just to equalize statistics, can we? Should we impose harsher sentencing on these crimes traditionally held to be less serious than violent crimes, if so, why and with what justification?

As far as DNA evd. freeing people, I believe that when blacks are freed it is just given more attention. CNN and the NY Times are well known as liberally slanted. Just because black people are freed by DNA evidence doesn't mean that white people are not. Again, we are never given an apples to apples comparison.

(I have got to turn off my computer and study now, thanks for the interesting discussion)[/quote]

I agree this is very apples to apples comparison, but there is evidence of biased decisions that have been documented with in the lat 40 years, remember that blacks were not given much justice until after Martin Luther King and other organizations that were just fed up with disparities. However it?s harder to prove judges or juries intent.

Another point to bring up is that economically whites hit harder than any other group, since many commit crimes of money laundering bank fraud, stock insider trading etc. So for the most part people who are laid off because of company collapse and so forth, or loose their pensions, or retirement or life savings you can thank corporate greed, and that 90% who run big business.

 

[jpbushido99]

[/quote]lol! That reminded me of a classic SNL skit of Eddie Murphy's, where he pretends for purposes of an experiment to pose as a white guy. He goes to a Hollywood make-up artist who then turns him into a white male using make-up and a wig and stuff. Then he dresses in a nice business suit and goes walking through the city. People come up and just give him stuff for free. Everyone is really nice to him. He goes to buy a newspaper, tries to hand the store owner some money, and the owner responds "No no, take it. Its free." Hilarious!

Of course, the skit was a brilliant satire on the idea that pennies fall from heaven when you're white but not when you're black.[/quote]

That?s funny, but I doubt that it?s not that far from the truth. Some people believe that hiring practices are based on what people feel comfortable with, and little things like education, experience, personality are minor. In this case since most top executives are white they would continue to hire what they feel comfortable with, and so on and so on down the beaurocratic ladder. Thus the idea that black's are the last to hire and first to fire regardless of qualifications. But I know my friend who is white deals with less sh!t than I do because people feel more comfortable with him, but me they see black guy and they immediately start trying to assume who I am and what I do and so on.

 

[tcsenter]

That?s funny, but I doubt that it?s not that far from the truth. Some people believe that hiring practices are based on what people feel comfortable with, and little things like education, experience, personality are minor. In this case since most top executives are white they would continue to hire what they feel comfortable with, and so on and so on down the beaurocratic ladder.

Well you keep believing that.

Case in point: you can find legions of young whites, particularly males, who have had bad experiences with arrogant and cocky white police officers on a power trip. I've yet to hear a one of them complain it was because they were white. You can find legions young whites, particularly males, who have been discriminated against because they were young. Harrassed, kicked out of malls, stores refuse to wait on them, etc. I've yet to hear a one of them complain it was because they were white.

When the same thing happens to young blacks, of course, its because they're black.

A 'victim' mentality is more harmful than reality.

 

[alkemyst]

Stereotypes can be accurate for a GROUP, but you still can't say everyone in that group falls under the stereotype.

So much of these types of things fall not under race, but economic/social/education background, unfortunately the minorities seems to have a higher overall percentage..but if you lined up all in the majority there would be more 'whites'. It's like having 1 black marble in a group of 100 white, but 1 off-white marble in a group of 50,000 white, both are still there, but one gets noticed more since it looks more different. It's BS, I have a lot of high brow friends and I literately hate when they add "well he/she is black, he/she is spanish, he/she is indian", I am white by the way.

 

[jpbushido99]

Case in point: you can find legions of young whites, particularly males, who have had bad experiences with arrogant and cocky white police officers on a power trip. I've yet to hear a one of them complain it was because they were white. You can find legions young whites, particularly males, who have been discriminated against because they were young. Harrassed, kicked out of malls, stores refuse to wait on them, etc. I've yet to hear a one of them complain it was because they were white.

When the same thing happens to young blacks, of course, its because they're black.

A 'victim' mentality is more harmful than reality.[/quote]


I understand exactly what you mean but the evidence kind of stacked against your argument. I feel that those situations do happen but they are more of an exception and not the rule. Please read the entire thread, and see what I mean. By the way I happen to be friends with cops, and currently Bush is trying to pass a bill stating that there should be no racial profiling. In term of white kids being kicked out, I live in a college town and most of the crap that happens here is by white kids, who are very arrogant, and the police tend to focus on them because they seem to not care about responsibility -- such as driving 65 in a 25-school zone with their new mustang. A lot of cops are pissed that these kids don't appreciate what they have and abuse their power so they do crack down on them. But get it straight I am not trying perpetuate the "victim mentality," rather I am trying to bring to light the many was discrimination plays its self out, and the people who think that it doesn't exist.

 

[CasioTech]

YES

Originally posted by: Anubis
wheres the option for "you are a moron"

 

[Netopia]

WOW!

Anyone ever considered staying ON TOPIC?

My take on fintoo:

Fixing To

As in preparing to do something.... i.e. I'm fixing to go to the store.

Normally used in the South, but in the dictionary nonetheless.

If you don't know why I just posted what I posted, you need to go back to when this thread was still ON TOPIC.

Joe

 

[Netopia]

Grrrr..... don't y'all hate it when ya dubba posts?

Joe

 

[Netopia]

 

[Lifer]

sorry, up here in nyc, i'd say 95% of the blacks speak like this.
i would guess that 95% of the blacks in large (inner) cities speak like this.
i would also guess that most of them know better, yet continue to speak like this.
they have this hardcore, ghetto image to maintain and are too cool and stubborn to improve their ways.
BET is not helping their cause by pumping out this garbage they call gangsta rap.

 

[chrisms]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I would assume that if in fact blacks are unfairly jailed more often than whites, it is because of stereotypes. If police offers constantly uses racial profiling (intentional or not), the black guy with a load of heroin in his trunk will be stopped and caught more often by officers than his white counterpart.

As far as the question about grammar goes, the person who started this thread is a moron. I'll list some reasons:
a) Many black people do not speak this way.. go meet some of them for yourself instead of getting your impressions from MTV.
b) For those who do speak this way, it is in many cases due to the way they were brought up. Even if their parents didn't speak that way, their friends did and that influenced them over the years. Just like the world "hella" has become popular over the past few years.. you might start saying it if everyone around you did.
c) As there is no official language in the United States, people are free to communicate how they please. These people, who some of you think talk the way they do out of "ignorance" or "bad education", are speaking in a way that is easiest to understand for those who are usually around them. There is nothing that requires them to speak "proper English."

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: chrisms
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I would assume that if in fact blacks are unfairly jailed more often than whites, it is because of stereotypes. If police offers constantly uses racial profiling (intentional or not), the black guy with a load of heroin in his trunk will be stopped and caught more often by officers than his white counterpart.

As far as the question about grammar goes, the person who started this thread is a moron. I'll list some reasons:
a) Many black people do not speak this way.. go meet some of them for yourself instead of getting your impressions from MTV.
b) For those who do speak this way, it is in many cases due to the way they were brought up. Even if their parents didn't speak that way, their friends did and that influenced them over the years. Just like the world "hella" has become popular over the past few years.. you might start saying it if everyone around you did.
c) As there is no official language in the United States, people are free to communicate how they please. These people, who some of you think talk the way they do out of "ignorance" or "bad education", are speaking in a way that is easiest to understand for those who are usually around them. There is nothing that requires them to speak "proper English."

i disagree, I know LOTS of black people and MOST of them speak this way and the ones that don't tell me of how they are ostracized by other blacks for talking "white".

that's their own observations. i don't know what you can present that will contradict that.

 

[LeeTJ]

also, black people that i don't know but meet on the streets and exchange words also count you know. guy at the blockbuster or the supermarket that bags groceries, most of those people also speak with bad grammar.

 

[tcsenter]

By the way I happen to be friends with cops, and currently Bush is trying to pass a bill stating that there should be no racial profiling. In term of white kids being kicked out, I live in a college town and most of the crap that happens here is by white kids, who are very arrogant, and the police tend to focus on them because they seem to not care about responsibility -- such as driving 65 in a 25-school zone with their new mustang. A lot of cops are pissed that these kids don't appreciate what they have and abuse their power so they do crack down on them.

Ah yes, its because 'the white kids were doing something wrong and thus deserved it'.

Hmm, funny, I think the stereotype of blacks is the same, is it not?

I would agree with you, most of the white kids bring this sort of thing on themselves by their behavior.

I also believe the same is true for blacks.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

By the way I happen to be friends with cops, and currently Bush is trying to pass a bill stating that there should be no racial profiling. In term of white kids being kicked out, I live in a college town and most of the crap that happens here is by white kids, who are very arrogant, and the police tend to focus on them because they seem to not care about responsibility -- such as driving 65 in a 25-school zone with their new mustang. A lot of cops are pissed that these kids don't appreciate what they have and abuse their power so they do crack down on them.

Ah yes, its because 'the white kids were doing something wrong and thus deserved it'.

Hmm, funny, I think the stereotype of blacks is the same, is it not?

I would agree with you, most of the white kids bring this sort of thing on themselves by their behavior.

I also believe the same is true for blacks.

Thats not true. Blacks are singled out and often recieve rushed unfair judgement. It just trips me out here. Here's a board that is 95% or better white and republican. That don't live in a ghetto, conversate with anyone from the ghetto, and are scared to death to even go to the ghetto. But yet you guys come off like you know everything about the hardcore blacks from the ghetto. The fact is 98% of the 95% here don't know the first thing about a ghetto or blacks in general except for what they read. Its like listening to a bunch of people from Florida talking about what its like to live in Alaska. In nice around about way a person from Florida wouldn't know the first damn thing about life in Alaska or the people in Alaska either. Just like here 99.999999999% of the bs I see posted here is by a bunch of caucasians who don't know the first thing about blacks or the "ghetto". And whats sad is they believe that they have the "facts" when in reality all they have is their ignorance.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: classy
Here's a board that is 95% or better white and republican.

White? Possibly, but there are lots of Asians (unless you count them as "white," too). Republican? Whatever it is that you're smoking, please pass me some.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: tcsenter

By the way I happen to be friends with cops, and currently Bush is trying to pass a bill stating that there should be no racial profiling. In term of white kids being kicked out, I live in a college town and most of the crap that happens here is by white kids, who are very arrogant, and the police tend to focus on them because they seem to not care about responsibility -- such as driving 65 in a 25-school zone with their new mustang. A lot of cops are pissed that these kids don't appreciate what they have and abuse their power so they do crack down on them.

Ah yes, its because 'the white kids were doing something wrong and thus deserved it'.

Hmm, funny, I think the stereotype of blacks is the same, is it not?

I would agree with you, most of the white kids bring this sort of thing on themselves by their behavior.

I also believe the same is true for blacks.

Thats not true. Blacks are singled out and often recieve rushed unfair judgement. It just trips me out here. Here's a board that is 95% or better white and republican. That don't live in a ghetto, conversate with anyone from the ghetto, and are scared to death to even go to the ghetto. But yet you guys come off like you know everything about the hardcore blacks from the ghetto. The fact is 98% of the 95% here don't know the first thing about a ghetto or blacks in general except for what they read. Its like listening to a bunch of people from Florida talking about what its like to live in Alaska. In nice around about way a person from Florida wouldn't know the first damn thing about life in Alaska or the people in Alaska either. Just like here 99.999999999% of the bs I see posted here is by a bunch of caucasians who don't know the first thing about blacks or the "ghetto". And whats sad is they believe that they have the "facts" when in reality all they have is their ignorance.

That is funny that you assume so much about the people that post here. I grew up on the Western Part of Birmingham and have spent lots of time in the "ghetto." No, I am not scared to go there. I have gone to every "bad" area in Birmingham and never had a problem. I used to spend a lot of time at a buddy's house in one of the worst areas of Birmingham and never felt scared. You are right that blacks do get discriminated against, although not on the level you profess so much. It is a lot less than one you say, but it does exist. I will recount one experience I had in particular. I used to get my Mustang worked on at the same shop as this black guy James. We all went downtown to the street races one time. We were coming back and kind of racing each other on the Interstate. His engine blew so we got off at the next exit. His car was not drivable so I called a tow truck for him. The tow driver came out and towed it to our buddy's shop, but James and his cousin had no way to get home. I said I would give them a ride, so off we went.

We went up Highway 78 which was a huge mistake. There is a corrupt local police department up that way, and of course we got pulled over. I was accused of speeding when I wasn't(I would tell the truth if I was speeding). The officer came up to the car and asked me to step out. First, he accused me of drinking(which I had not been drinking) then he asked me to step back to his car. He proceeded to ask me "What do you have those two N*ggers with you for?" I seriously wanted to punch him, but that would have gotten me arrested. I told him it was none of his fvcking business what my FRIENDS are doing with me, and if he wants to write me a ticket then go ahead. I filed a complaint about him to his local department and the Alabama Attorney General, but I never heard anything back. Coincidentally, that department was busted not too much later for Civil Rights violations and had to face lots of fines and fire officers. I told James what had occurred when we got back on the road, and he just said he was used to it. Discrimination happens, but I think you are a tad paranoid sometimes classy.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: tcsenter

By the way I happen to be friends with cops, and currently Bush is trying to pass a bill stating that there should be no racial profiling. In term of white kids being kicked out, I live in a college town and most of the crap that happens here is by white kids, who are very arrogant, and the police tend to focus on them because they seem to not care about responsibility -- such as driving 65 in a 25-school zone with their new mustang. A lot of cops are pissed that these kids don't appreciate what they have and abuse their power so they do crack down on them.

Ah yes, its because 'the white kids were doing something wrong and thus deserved it'.

Hmm, funny, I think the stereotype of blacks is the same, is it not?

I would agree with you, most of the white kids bring this sort of thing on themselves by their behavior.

I also believe the same is true for blacks.

Thats not true. Blacks are singled out and often recieve rushed unfair judgement. It just trips me out here. Here's a board that is 95% or better white and republican. That don't live in a ghetto, conversate with anyone from the ghetto, and are scared to death to even go to the ghetto. But yet you guys come off like you know everything about the hardcore blacks from the ghetto. The fact is 98% of the 95% here don't know the first thing about a ghetto or blacks in general except for what they read. Its like listening to a bunch of people from Florida talking about what its like to live in Alaska. In nice around about way a person from Florida wouldn't know the first damn thing about life in Alaska or the people in Alaska either. Just like here 99.999999999% of the bs I see posted here is by a bunch of caucasians who don't know the first thing about blacks or the "ghetto". And whats sad is they believe that they have the "facts" when in reality all they have is their ignorance.

Since i'm asian, and primarily vote Democrat, i do have to take exception to what you say. you are stereotyping and generalizing as much as anyone you are trying to accuse of the same very thing. how very open minded of you.

I grew up in all kinds of bad parts of atlanta. i grew up in atlanta before it became the "modern" city it is today. when we first moved to atlanta in 1971 I-85 was a 4 lane highway. Back then it was traditional southern whites and blacks w/ a smattering of hispanics. hardly any asians. i grew up in mostly black neighborhoods when i was young, so don't tell me what i do and do not know about blacks.

my dad came to the US with $500.00 in his pocket and he managed to buy a house after being here only 7 years, he put me, my brother and my sister threw college, he also put me and my bro thru grad school. he managed to accumulate some wealth and a decent pension and has since retired.

We started with $500.00 and there were 5 of us that came to the US in 1970. He achieved a moderate level of financial success because he and my mom each worked 2 full time shifts for years, 16 hours a day working.

so don't tell me what i do and do not know about being poor.

You black people that assume so much about asians really piss me off. asians face predjudice here in the US whether you want to admit it or not. ironically we face it more from blacks than from other ethnics. how fvcking hypocritical is that?

I was going to not flame in this thread but your blatant stereotyping and predjudice really pisses me off.

 

[hans007]

probably both it sounding cool and ghetto, and ignorance.


hell its just like any color people who say nuke you lar. or off ten with the T enunciated if you talk about ignorance.

 

[psianime]

I can think of other choice words that black people say that is a lot more offensive.

-psianime

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Lifer
Do they really have bad grammar?
Or do they do it because they think it sounds cool and ghetto?

Example: I was just watching "Making the Band II" on MTV.
And they say something like -

"Me and my boys was just chillin'.

When the proper way to say it is -

"Me and my boys were just chillin'.

That's obvious and I don't think ALL too common. There are MUCH more common ways were and was are misused.

IE..

If only it was sunny yesterday, my basement wouldn't have flooded --- WRONG

If only it were sunny yesterday, my basement wouldn't have flodded --- RIGHT

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Lifer
Do they really have bad grammar?
Or do they do it because they think it sounds cool and ghetto?

Example: I was just watching "Making the Band II" on MTV.
And they say something like -

"Me and my boys was just chillin'.

When the proper way to say it is -

"Me and my boys were just chillin'.

That's obvious and I don't think ALL too common. There are MUCH more common ways were and was are misused.

IE..

If only it was sunny yesterday, my basement wouldn't have flooded --- WRONG

If only it were sunny yesterday, my basement wouldn't have flodded --- RIGHT

weird, i wouldn't have chosen either option.

"if only it HAD BEEN sunny yesterday, my basement wouldn't have flooded." -- right.

btw, you spelled flooded wrong the 2nd time there bud.

finally, i was talking with a doc today about dictation software and such and he said to me, the biggest problem with dictation software, no matter HOW good it is, is that NO one speaks with PERFECT grammar and whatever the dictation software takes down must be edited again for grammar.

Written language is necessarily different from spoken language. part of the PURPOSE of grammar is to communicate written what is normally communicated w/ a nod of the head, a raising of the eyebrow, a shrug of the shoulder, all things that we use as PART of our "verbal" communication. so the question is, should Written language try to model SPOKEN or should SPOKEN try to model written.


to me, written uses grammar because it lacks the power of "spoken". hence Written is attempting to model or replicate spoken the best it can.

conclusion,

grammar for written communication is MUCH more important, almost imperative, than it is for spoken.

if someone speaks with "improper" grammar but you understood what they said, why make a big deal about it?

 

[LeeTJ]

One additional thought.


Would any of us actually listened intently to someone who spoke as if EVERY sentence had been written with perfect grammar??

NO expletives, NO fragments, ONLY complete sentences with ALL subjects agreeing with verbs and objects. . . .

what a boring person that would be, no?

 

[Serpent]

I have heard white men (blue collar) speak like that too.

"So I says to her...." , " So here we was doing this..."